I just got the call........ - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 80 Old 07-22-2004, 10:08 AM - Thread Starter
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My bro just called to tell me that my SIL is in labor. Here was the conversation:

Him: N. is in labor.
Me: Yea! Congratulations! Are you leaving him intact?
Him: No, we're chopping it off.
Me: I'm sorry to hear that.
Him: Well, you should just be happy that he is being born.
Me: I am. Tell N. good luck.


Then I hung up the phone, sat on the floor, and cried.

I am going to mail them a card, but I can't go visit them. Tell me this is ok. (Please only respond if you are a regular (or want-to-be-regular) on this board. Thank you.

PS. I sent them a ton of information, and two heartfelt letters. I feel so powerless to stop this atrocity.

"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
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#2 of 80 Old 07-22-2004, 10:12 AM
 
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Wow. "We're chopping it off." That is a hateful thing to say about a baby.

I'm really sorry. You did your best for this new baby. I certainly understand not wanting to visit right away. It's so hard to see a newborn baby boy and not wince for what was done to him.
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#3 of 80 Old 07-22-2004, 10:43 AM
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With that sort of violent attitude even before the baby is here, I worry what will be in the future for their parenting. No disrespect to your brother but I do not see that as a good beginning.

I would sit down and cry, too. I'm so sorry this has gone the way of circumcision for your nephew. I wish I knew what else to say.

I think it's okay not to visit for now.

I'm sitting here still stunned by your brother's choice of words. So wish I could rescue your nephew. I really wonder if certain people should be parents when they approach caring for their child this way. But it isn't up to me to decide.
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#4 of 80 Old 07-22-2004, 10:43 AM
 
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..about a baby who has not even been born alive yet... in the face of a miracle- to have such arrogance. I would cry too...

Sorry about this- I will surely mess a lot of things up forever. I can't imagine trying to pick up after than and feign normalcy and respect for such people.
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#5 of 80 Old 07-22-2004, 10:48 AM
 
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I understand your sadness and your not wanting to visit right away. Just thinking about it makes me physically ill right now.
I hope he makes it through ok.
And hugs to you for trying! We are up against a HUGE evil!
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#6 of 80 Old 07-22-2004, 10:52 AM - Thread Starter
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My brother is....shall we say......tactless. That's how he always talks. (Not violent all the time, but just rude.) I hugged my intact son and at least I've been able to stop crying. I'm afraid if I go visit I'll start crying again, though.

"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
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#7 of 80 Old 07-22-2004, 10:58 AM - Thread Starter
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And here's the irony: he has two daughters (whom he parents well, I think.) He is always telling me that he wants to raise them better than we were raised by our parents--he's always very conscious about not making the same mistakes that our parents made.

Well, now his first decision for his son is repeating one of our parents' biggest mistakes.

"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
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#8 of 80 Old 07-22-2004, 11:01 AM
 
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Oh, A&A - I'm so so sorry. I think you handled it so very well.

And I, too, would have sat down and cried. Just reading your post makes me want to cry.

I think it's fine to wait to see them. Your feelings are valid, and you are entitled to take the time you need to deal with them before you face your bro and sil. to you and your poor little nephew.
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#9 of 80 Old 07-22-2004, 11:11 AM
 
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I would be an booger. And send the child a get well card.
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#10 of 80 Old 07-22-2004, 11:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you all for your support.

And this situation makes me realize......again.....what was done to my dh as a baby, which makes me want to cry all over again!

"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
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#11 of 80 Old 07-22-2004, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsupialmom
I would be an A**. And send the child a get well card.

That actually made me laugh. Would you really?

"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
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#12 of 80 Old 07-22-2004, 11:20 AM
 
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I think you showed remarkable tact and control. Far more than a comment like that deserved.

I have great difficulty being appropriately polite in that type of situation. Good luck.

-Angela
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#13 of 80 Old 07-22-2004, 12:07 PM
 
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That is a common comment by people who think circumcision is no big deal. I don't think it necessarily means he is a bad Dad but a man who doesn't "get it".

That said...HUGS. I mentioned the first person I formally presented circumcsion facts at their baby shower not only circumcised, but I arived at the Hospital while it was happening! I felt so ill but she has a controlling husband who said it had to be done. Being circ'd is all she knew, she didn't argue either. Some of her family was their when I gasped and asked why it would bother me and she said 'She doesn't 'believe' in circumcsion". It was hard for them to comprehend the idea of intactness...til I said my happy baby with me was intact. End of discussion...
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#14 of 80 Old 07-22-2004, 12:16 PM
 
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i like the idea of the card. what, worry about offending? i am more likely to rub someone's nose in the fact that they WILLFULLY INJURED THEIR BABY. i think it's an awesome idea to remind parents they they have inflicted a *wound*. it IS a big deal. i think we all ought to send them to babies who have had this done. i really, really like it, marsupial mom (so, are you going to design the cards? i can see noharmm selling them onsite.)

suse
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#15 of 80 Old 07-22-2004, 12:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsupialmom
I would be an A**. And send the child a get well card.
I would do this also -

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#16 of 80 Old 07-22-2004, 12:45 PM
 
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I understand your sadness. And I think you have a valid reason for not wanting to circ. But, as someone who DID circ her son, I would be heartbroken if my sister (who did NOT circ her son who was born 7 weeks after mine) didn't come see my newborn. (that's actually a hypotheical since she lived in Massacusets and I was in MI so she couldn't come anyway). I think it's great you're voicing your opinion and standing up for what you believe in. But is *punishing* the parents really going to do anything? This could be something that's held over your head for a long time ("everyone else visited you in the hospital when you were born except aunt x"). KWIM? I hope I'm not upsetting anyone, just trying to give a different perspective.

"And send the child a get well card."

Now that's kinda funny.

Steph, DH Jason (1-1-11), DS Owen (10-3-03) and DS Kai (10-13-11)

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#17 of 80 Old 07-22-2004, 01:12 PM
 
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I think it is totally appropriate to give yourself the time to grieve the mutilation of a newborn baby by not appearing in the days shortly after his birth. I wouldn't want to be a part of any family that would be going on and on about who visited in the hospital and who didn't.

I think people are obligated to be polite across the board regardless of the situation. I see no need to put yourself in a situation where you could feel so upset you would cry or so upset that you would say angry things.

That A & A's brother and SIL are choosing to do this to their child is not something she has to witness or be around in my opinion! I think people should experience repercussions for their choices. That she would be distant from the parents is totally appropriate to me. That she would be distant to the child is not. The child has choice and should not be punished for the actions of his ignorant parents. (And even if they have been informed of the process and damage of RIC, they are still ignorant on an emotional level in my opinion to request it be done)

"To err is human, to forgive, canine." - Unknown
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#18 of 80 Old 07-22-2004, 01:15 PM
 
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let me add that this newborn baby most likely will not remember that she did not come visit him in the hospital.

"To err is human, to forgive, canine." - Unknown
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#19 of 80 Old 07-22-2004, 01:45 PM
 
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(not to mention, may have a soft spot in his heart for someone who loved him enough to risk alienating his parents, to try & keep him from harm.)

suse
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#20 of 80 Old 07-22-2004, 02:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StephandOwen
I understand your sadness. And I think you have a valid reason for not wanting to circ. But, as someone who DID circ her son, I would be heartbroken if my sister (who did NOT circ her son who was born 7 weeks after mine) didn't come see my newborn. (that's actually a hypotheical since she lived in Massacusets and I was in MI so she couldn't come anyway). I think it's great you're voicing your opinion and standing up for what you believe in. But is *punishing* the parents really going to do anything? This could be something that's held over your head for a long time ("everyone else visited you in the hospital when you were born except aunt x"). KWIM? I hope I'm not upsetting anyone, just trying to give a different perspective.

I can't honestly wish them congratulations and happiness knowing that they willfully chose to mutilate their son. I would be a dark cloud on their happy day. I'm doing less damage by being away.

"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
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#21 of 80 Old 07-22-2004, 02:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by PuppyFluffer
I think people should experience repercussions for their choices.

Thank you. I agree. That's why circumcision continues--everyone (even the circ'ing parents sometimes!) pretends that it doesn't exist--that some baby boys "just come out that way" or something.

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#22 of 80 Old 07-22-2004, 02:07 PM
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ITA with PuppyFluffer - the newborn won't remember your visit and you don't need to go visit now. I know people like to romanticize 'come see the baby!' and do the pass the baby thing but I think it is way over rated.

Let it be known that you are the Aunt who disagreed with the decision to 'cut it off' and were so grieved by your bro and SIL's violent choice against your nephew that you stayed away (for a time or whatever). Why not? Why not be that relative and known that way?

Better to be the pro intact genitalia Aunt than the 'cut it off' Daddy, I say.

Again, i mean no fundamental disrespect to your brother, I love my brother and would be so conflicted if he talked and acted this way. But at the end of the day, the result is a mutilated penis. There was no need for it. You know that and it is a crying shame.

Gawd, it is just so unfair sometimes!! Why not just wait until the boy can request it himself if the parent is so hell bent on the idea? Why not give them a chance?

It makes me nuts and I want to scream and break things. It will never make sense to me because it is senseless.
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#23 of 80 Old 07-22-2004, 02:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by playdoh
It makes me nuts and I want to scream and break things. It will never make sense to me because it is senseless.

I love you people! You understand me like no other!

My dh told me not to cry, and I told him that TODAY IS CRY ABOUT CIRCUMCISION DAY. So just deal with it.

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#24 of 80 Old 07-22-2004, 02:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by A&A
I can't honestly wish them congratulations and happiness knowing that they willfully chose to mutilate their son. I would be a dark cloud on their happy day. I'm doing less damage by being away.
A baby was still born and I believe congrats are still in order. Yes, they *mutilated* him. You did your best (I assume) to educate them on circing. There doesn't seem to be anything else you can do if it's already done. Be glad he was born alive and well.

"I know people like to romanticize 'come see the baby!' and do the pass the baby thing but I think it is way over rated."

Again, coming from the other side..... I didn't have many visitors after my DS was born. 1 sister was out of state, another was hours away at school, my dad was at work, my mom had her own baby to care for, all but one of my friends had left long ago not wanting anything to do with a baby, the one friend I did/do have also has 4 boys so couldn't stay for more than a minute. So to have someone who COULD come see me/baby not come because they didn't agree with me circing him would have stung. Hard.

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#25 of 80 Old 07-22-2004, 02:34 PM
 
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s I know exactly how you feel because my bro is just like that, he has NO tact. I visited my bro and SIL in the hospital right after their ds was born. He was born with a broken clavicle and had severe jaundice so I had assumed that they wouldn't torture him further by circ'ing him. Well I was wrong and the nurse came in to get him while we were there. I walked over to the baby and said to him, I am so very sorry they are doing this to you. I said it loud enough for everyone to hear. I then turned around and walked out without saying another word. My dh and I refused to call them or talk to them for a few weeks after that. I was just so angry. And I know that it is not right but I can't bond with my nephew because I have so much hatred for his parents. He is a cute baby but every time I would change his diaper I wanted to puke. I cried the first time I saw it. I wish I would have thought to send their ds a get well card. I really would have done it too. I hope that you are a better person than me and not let it affect your bond with your nephew.
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#26 of 80 Old 07-22-2004, 02:41 PM
 
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A&A, I understand how you feel. I wouldn't be able to go right now either. Circumcision is just such a great way to welcome a newborn baby isn't it. :
I think a get well card for your nephew is a good idea. Why the &%$* should we all just stand by and let this crap happen with out batting an eye. It's never going to end like that. Or in the name of keeping the peace keeping our mouths shut, ugh.
I am so sorry yet another baby boy is being tortured and his perfect body is being sexually altered.

OUR DAUGHTERS ARE PROTECTED SHOULDN'T OUR SONS BE TOO! :
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#27 of 80 Old 07-22-2004, 02:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StephandOwen
So to have someone who COULD come see me/baby not come because they didn't agree with me circing him would have stung. Hard.

Good. It should, considering you mutilated your child.

Did you not happen to see what I wrote in my first post? If you're not a regular contributor to the anti-circ fight, or don't plan to be, please don't post on this thread. I won't be responding to anything else you have to say because I don't want the thread to get pulled.

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#28 of 80 Old 07-22-2004, 02:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StephandOwen
So to have someone who COULD come see me/baby not come because they didn't agree with me circing him would have stung. Hard.
If you feel like circumcision is a violent violation to a babies body and purely wrong, it is hard to sympathize with someone who chooses to mutilate their child. I would not be able to look my brother and SIL in the eyes w/o showing disgust. I think it would be best not only for my peace but also theirs that I not visit them during this time.
I think the words you chose (stung) to be ironic.

OUR DAUGHTERS ARE PROTECTED SHOULDN'T OUR SONS BE TOO! :
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#29 of 80 Old 07-22-2004, 02:49 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheacoby
A&A, I understand how you feel. I wouldn't be able to go right now either. Circumcision is just such a great way to welcome a newborn baby isn't it. :
I think a get well card for your nephew is a good idea. Why the &%$* should we all just stand by and let this crap happen with out batting an eye. It's never going to end like that. Or in the name of keeping the peace keeping our mouths shut, ugh.
I am so sorry yet another baby boy is being tortured and his perfect body is being sexually altered.

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#30 of 80 Old 07-22-2004, 03:06 PM
 
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That's upsetting. You can't know if they read your information or not, but it sounds like he was being short and devensive about it. I had someone do that once- take my info and never mention it again. I don't have any idea of they circ'd or not- we moved away.

Just the calous way he told you they were doing it, too.... Sort of like "in your face". Obviously, he doesn't want to think too much about chopping off bits of penile anatomy related to himself... the old story....
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