Just found out I'm having a boy, tell me about circumcison... - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 55 Old 02-04-2005, 10:20 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Why do you chose not to?
I don't know anyone who has chosen not to. Is it because of the pain?
My SIL asked if we were going to circumcise and I told her I don't know yet. (I need to learn about it, I have no clue about either side)
She then tells me how unhealthy it is to not circumcise and how when he gets married, an uncircumcised penis will hurt the woman during sex?!?!?
Also , most of my friends (Christians) mention, "Well, it's in the Bible"
Anyway, I want to be well informed so where do I start reading about all of this?
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#2 of 55 Old 02-04-2005, 10:35 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Love2learn
Anyway, I want to be well informed so where do I start reading about all of this?
Right here is a good starting place. Browse around, ask questions.

Your sil is misinformed. The forskin serves a purpose. Why would you surgically remove a perfectly healthy, functioning, body part? Circ is a social tradition and nothing more--there is no medical reason to remove the foreskin in a newborn.

The issue of pain compounds the reasons not to circ--yes, it's painful. It's surgery. The actual proceedure is painful, recovery is painful (imagine peeing on an open wound!)

Asking, "Why not circ?" is good, but also ask yourself "Why am I considering circ?" Are there any other body parts you're considering having removed? I'm sorry if that sounds harsh--circ is harsh.

Single Mom to 3 (12, 17 & 21)  luxlove.gif and dog2.gif.

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#3 of 55 Old 02-04-2005, 10:36 AM
 
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I chose not to because it was not medically necessary. It's basically "cosmetic surgery" and I don't feel I have the right to do that to my son...

"Unhealthy not to circumsize"... Actually all of the major medical associations (AMA, AAP, etc.) say there is no medical reason to circ...

"Hurt the woman during sex"...I don't think that's true... The penis came with that foreskin, and the penis was created for sex. It seems like the penis would have been made perfectly for the job it was to do. Besides, many women and men state that sex using an uncirced penis is actually more pleasurable.

"It's in the Bible"...Yes, Jesus was circed...but Jesus was Jewish. It was a sacrifice... For Christians, the sacrifice was replaced by Jesus' death. Circumcision was never made necessary in the Christian faith.

If you want more info, ask Loving_My_Babies...she's got a good video...

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#4 of 55 Old 02-04-2005, 11:02 AM
 
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This article is old,but I just came across it last night and thought it was pretty good.http://www.post-gazette.com/healthsc...990316cut4.asp

It just makes sense *not to* circumcise boys. I mean what an insult to males to say-you can't clean yourself,so we are going to cut of parts we now acknowldege have important functions. Sex is actually more comfortable with a normal(intact) man.
Circumcised men are missing quite a few parts. A lot more just than foreskin is cut away during a circumcision. As I told my dh the other week... I would be pretty angry if someone had cut off parts of my genitals when I was a kid. Now ofcourse girls are protected by law against genital cutting.Males on the other hand still have no protection mainly just because circumcision has become the norm in this country.Old habits are hard to break especially when it comes to sexual parts,and when religion and coming of age ceremonies are involved. Most of the world does not circumcise their males,and they are horrified that the US does it. Here it is now big money to harvest foreskins.Foreskins are good...but only after they are cut off an infant!
Thankfullly despite the continued push to find valid reasons to cut boys the circ rate in the US is nearing a 50/50 mark.

Best wishes in your reseach. Above all consider what your son would want.The choice to alter his genitals and sexuality forever really should be up to him. Cut or intact- boys get infections.You treat the infection and move on.I have not had a sinlge issue with my intact boy that is almost 3,and even if I did amputation would not be a treatment course I would foloow,lol

Girls get more infections than boys,but we stopped female circ in this country a while ago.Yes,the US actually cut boys and girls,and used similar excuses to justify it.You can certainly find doctors who will cut adult women who choose to have various parts trimmed up. As with women the men should be able to grow up normal and then decide on their own.There was a Christian article that I came across.Will add it to this thread if I can find it again.

Here was that Christian article:http://www.christianitytoday.com/cpt/2000/003/5.42.html

None of the *benefits* of circ mentioned in this article like reduced UTI,penile cancer,std are proven and valid.No country supports routine circ for all boys for medical benefits,because there are no benefits.

Also, in regards to the mom who circed her 5yo because he was red and infection prone(then circed her next son to avoid this problem).It just sounds like her doctor did not treat the actual problem to alleviate the symptoms.The cure all is to remove the part.No part=no infection. What other parts do we cut off of our children instead of treating? None unless it is dead tissue.Most people just think the foreskin is just a useless piece of skin that is expendable. Also in many cases the child is being retratcted since infancy,and this causes damage since some children do not before fully retractable till their teen years,and hormones kick in to break down the tissue holding the foreskin/glans together.

Again best wishes!
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#5 of 55 Old 02-04-2005, 11:29 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllyRae
"Hurt the woman during sex"...I don't think that's true...
I can tell you that is definately not true. When I first had sex with my husband, in the dark, I did not even know he was not circumcised! : It wasn't until the next day when we woke up and I was playing around that I noticed (the first one I had ever seen!) I thought it was fantastic; this new toy for me to play with!!

I left my son exactly the way God/nature made him. It is elective, cosmetic surgery and just as my son has a right to choose whether he wants a nose job, or a tattoo or an earring, he also has the right to choose whether he wants the top of his penis cut off.
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#6 of 55 Old 02-04-2005, 11:34 AM
 
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For me and my hubby, it came down to this: our son is not our property, he has rights to his own body. If I took away his choice I could never feel good about myself as a person. By leaving him his foreskin, he still has a choice.

If after he is 21 and feels that he needs it done, he can still do it. And live with the decision HE made.
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#7 of 55 Old 02-04-2005, 11:44 AM
 
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I chose not to because of the pain but also because I didn't think I should be taking that much of someone's sexual anatomy away. Less is not more, in this case, I figured! (I've never heard that foreskins will hurt a woman during sex! That's a new one...! )

Please see the link in my signature here- its a website I've put together on the subject. Easy to read, but much to think about.
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#8 of 55 Old 02-04-2005, 12:31 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Love2learn
Why do you chose not to?
When I was a child, I felt as if I had been violated. As I got to know more about it as an adult, the reasons just started piling on top of each other. I've got dozens now.


Quote:
I don't know anyone who has chosen not to.
There are probably more than you know. Currently, just over half of boys are circumcised. Geography has a lot to do with it. If you live in the west coast states, less than 4 of every 10 boys are circumcised. There is also a strong movement away from circumcision in the New England and Mid Atlantic states and individual states scattered around the country. It could be that the hospital in your town circumcises almost all boys and in a neighboring town 20 miles away, few are circumcised. Doing it because everybody else does it is a poor way to make parenting decisions. I love your screen name because I love to learn as well. That's what you need to do before making this parenting decision. Many of the decisions you make can be changed later but circumcision is one of those one time things that can never be changed. It is absolute and permanent.


Quote:
Is it because of the pain?
Certainly there is pain. There is usually pain even with anesthesia administered. The AMA found that 96% of boys get no pain relief or inadequate pain relief. We also tend to forget post-op pain. That is, the pain that will go on as a result of the amputation for several days to a couple of weeks. We have had many mothers relate their experiences of their boys screaming for weeks every time they change their boys diapers. It is obvious that most are in pain and it appears that they fear that pain as they remember it for a good while after it should have stopped. Just at the prospect of getting their diaper changed, they start screaming because they associate diaper changes with pain.


Quote:
My SIL asked if we were going to circumcise and I told her I don't know yet. (I need to learn about it, I have no clue about either side)
You have found a great place to learn.


Quote:
She then tells me how unhealthy it is to not circumcise
You can take it from The AAP (and every other medical association in the world) that there are no known health benefits offered by circumcision. To the contrary, we have never had an intact boy here with any significant health problem at this forum or any other forum I know of. That is, a problem that couldn't be easily handled with some simple medication. However, we have had a significant number of problems of boys who were circumcised that needed additional surgery. Some of them needed significant surgery such as very painful skin graft surgery. Then there are a few that have been so botched that there is nothing that can be done for them. Every year, a significant number of boys die of the circumcision procedure. I have never heard of a boy dieing because he was intact and as long as I have been involved in this issue, I'm sure I would have if it had happened.


Quote:
and how when he gets married, an uncircumcised penis will hurt the woman during sex?!?!?
It's actually just the opposite. The form and function of the human genitals has been developing for millions of years to perform perfectly and in concert with each other. If there were actually such problems, mankind would not dominate the earth as we do now. We may even be extinct with poorly designed and functioning sexual organs. To the contrary, it is thought that man is the only specie on earth that has sex for the pure enjoyment of it. If it were painful to either partner, that would not be the case. If it were painful, the man would have to rape the woman every time just to have sex and perpetuate the species.

The intact penis has an sleeve of skin that can freely move the entire length of the penis much as the skin of a dog can freely move around. This is a benefit for comfortable sex and can enhance the sexual experience for his partner because she is not distracted by the friction of circumcised sex. Once the penis is circumcised, the shaft skin is no longer mobile and during sex, it plunges in and out of the vagina. This causes substantial friction against the vaginal sphincter. A woman's only defense against this is copious amounts of vaginal fluid to lubricate the area. Sadly, some women do not produce sufficient quantities of vaginal fluid and others are hyper sensitive to this friction. In these cases, artificial lubricant is necessary. As can be expected, these lubricants are widely available in the US at drug stores and supermarkets but in Europe where almost no men are circumcised, it can be difficult to find them. There is a far smaller market there because they are just not needed. What did people do before circumcision got started in America and before there were artificial lubricants? They didn't do anything because artificial lubricants just weren't needed.

As women age, they produce less and less vaginal fluid and after menopause, it is common for them to suffer painful sex. There is even a name for it, something like Female Dysfunctional Syndrome. Well, these women are not dysfunctional at all. There sexual function is just fine, it's just painful. There is evidence this is related to male circumcision in that the friction of years of circumcised sex has permanently damaged the vaginal sphincter causing the pain. It is especially noticed after menopause because the quantity of vaginal lubrication is greatly reduced.


Quote:
Also , most of my friends (Christians) mention, "Well, it's in the Bible"
Anyway, I want to be well informed so where do I start reading about all of this?
I'm sending you some information via PM about circumcision in The Bible as we are not allowed to discuss religion here. For Christians, it is definitely not in The Bible. Quite the contrary, The New Testament admonishes against it.

This forum is a great start. Check the sticky at the top of the forum titled "Web Resources" for research. You can also go to the www.cirp.org library or just type circumcision into any search engine and you will literally get thousands of returns. However, let me warn you, there are many sites that will deliberately mislead you about this issue so carefully consider anything you read and make sure it passes the reason and logic test.



Frank
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#9 of 55 Old 02-04-2005, 12:42 PM
 
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Hi there and congratulations on your little-boy-to-be . I have two and they are awesome! We always assumed we would circumcise any boys we had becasue Daddy is, which is one of the biggest reasons people state as to why they chose to do it. Something didn't sit right with me about it though and that along with the prompting of a lady at work(she didn't circ her son) I started to research the topic.

All I can tell you is how absolutely happy and greatful both myself and my dh are now that the information was available and that we left our sons intact.

Here is a link to some info that I found then, and some that I have found in the meantime. I hope this is helpful to you!
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...66#post2174866

Best of luck to you and if you have any spacific questions, fire away. The bunch here is very well versed on this topic!

Take care,
Tara

Tara Momma to Callum and Gavin
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#10 of 55 Old 02-04-2005, 02:50 PM
 
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I'm going to go through and answer each question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Love2learn
Why do you chose not to?
I don't know anyone who has chosen not to. Is it because of the pain?
Partly its because of the pain. But mostly its that the foreskin and frenulem serve an important role to him. The foreskin on an infant protects the child from infection. It keeps feces out of the penis.
The foreskin also protects the sensitivity of the penis for sexual reasons when he grows up. The glans, or head, is meant to be an internal organ much like the inside of your labia.

Quote:
She then tells me how unhealthy it is to not circumcise
Its very healthy to have a foreskin, as pointed out before it protects and keeps the penis clean.
When he grows older he will make smegma which is like the vaginal fluids a woman has. It serves to clean out the penis. Like your vulva washing with water is all that is needed. As an infant the skin does not move back so you wash it off like a finger.

Quote:
and how when he gets married, an uncircumcised penis will hurt the woman during sex?!?!?
that is not true at all! The foreskin makes sex more pleasureable for both partners. It keeps the fluids inside so that dryness is not as common. When a penis is erect the foreskin is not noticeable anyway.

Quote:
Also , most of my friends (Christians) mention, "Well, it's in the Bible"
True it is in the Bible, the Old Testament. But there are several verses in the New Testament which explain it is not necessary for Christians.

Mom of a 7 yr old, 4 yr old, and 1 yr old. Wow. How did that happen?
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#11 of 55 Old 02-04-2005, 03:10 PM
 
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Everyone here has given you lots of information and things to think about. I'd like to point out that America is the only country in the world where boys are routinely circumcised at birth for non-religious reasons, and that over 80% of the men on the planet are intact, uncircumcised, and very happy with it, thank you very much!

I have to run, but I will private message you later on the Christianity/circumcision aspect. My husband initially wanted to circ and I looked into the Biblical aspects of it.

Good luck! You've got lots 2 learn My favorite links are:
It's A Boy!
and
Information for Parents
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#12 of 55 Old 02-04-2005, 03:27 PM
 
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I just wanted to say that I have 2 sons, both intact. Daddy is circumcised.

As Frank stated, dh and I have had problems with sex causing my to be sore. There is alot of pulling. I do believe if he was intact, it wouldn't be an issue.

As to my boys, I could not bare chopping a part of their flesh off. It makes me ill.

On Oprah they had a show about female circumcision.....they audience was crying and so upset. Who is crying for our boys???

I don't feel I can make a decision like that for mt sons. It is there body. I chose to leave them as God gave them to me.

Mama to 9 so far:Mother of Joey (20), Dominick (13), Abigail (11), Angelo (8), Mylee (6), Delainey (3), Colton (2) and Baby 8 and Baby 9 coming sometime in July 2013.   If evolution were true, mothers would have three arms!

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#13 of 55 Old 02-04-2005, 04:51 PM
 
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Hi again. I just wanted to add this link to about circumcision and Christianity.
http://www.stopcirc.com/christian.html

Take care,
Tara

Tara Momma to Callum and Gavin
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#14 of 55 Old 02-04-2005, 06:37 PM
 
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That last link for the Christian perspective seems to be down. Here's another, tho:
http://www.cirp.org/pages/cultural/peron1/
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#15 of 55 Old 02-04-2005, 09:05 PM
 
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This thread has links to articles published by Mothering Magazine. They are the articles that first helped me to understand how damaging and unnecessary circumcision is:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ad.php?t=76367

Also, this thread has enough info to keep you busy.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=207626
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#16 of 55 Old 02-04-2005, 10:17 PM
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Everyone else has said a lot of good things.

May I just add:

What OTHER parts will you be "discussing" cutting off? Tips of fingers? Parts of ears? A little eyelid?

If you've decided to not cut off these parts, why?

What parts of a girl would you cut off? Why or why not?



Seems like a silly question, doesn't it? Now put that into the context of circ.


I left my son with his genital integrity. It wasn't mine to take in the first place.

"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
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#17 of 55 Old 02-04-2005, 10:25 PM
 
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I never thought about it until I read Dr. Sears' description of a circumcision in The Pregnacy Book (or The Baby Book, I forget which). Now, he was just being informational but it sounded so horrific (strapping the baby to a board!) that I could not imagine putting my precious boy through that kind of pain and fear, especially when he was just a few days old. We were the first people who I knew for a fact didn't circumcise, but now I know a lot and frankly feel sorry for circumcised little boys -- their penises look raw and vulnerable to me.

Good luck! Boys are wonderful
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#18 of 55 Old 02-05-2005, 12:11 PM
 
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Hi - I can't really add a lot to all of the good information you have already been given, but I did want to give you the link to this study:

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2004/11/prweb180294.htm

This study showed that circumcision is NOT cost effective, medically speaking.

From the study:

Quote:
The analysis is based on published data from multiple observational studies, comparing boys circumcised at birth and those not circumcised, using the Quality of Well-being Scale, a Markov analysis, the standard reference case, and a societal perspective. Neonatal circumcision increased incremental costs by $828.42 per patient and resulted in an incremental 15.30 well-years lost per 1000 males. The only ones to gain from this unnecessary and harmful surgery are the attending physicians and hospitals.
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#19 of 55 Old 02-05-2005, 01:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankly Speaking
To the contrary, it is thought that man is the only specie on earth that has sex for the pure enjoyment of it.
Frank
don't forget the bonobo chimps. ALSO intact. (should the vivisectionists get the idea to test hypotheses regarding foreskin & sexual arousal, & decide to circ a bunch of them, no doubt many animal rights activists would crusade to have such cruelty stopped- that have circ'd their own sons as a matter of course. no diss to the intactivist peta members here intended, i'm just making a point. what would be considered torture to an animal is routinely done to human babies.)

ps we're christian & jewish & don't circ. read paul, for a start. he says don't bother.

suse
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#20 of 55 Old 02-05-2005, 02:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Why do you chose not to?
Frank will probably know the exact numbers, but there are far more complications that are caused by circumcision than by keeping the penis intact. Many men have minor and major sexual dysfunction as adults and do not realize it is because they are circumcised.

I chose not to for the same reason I chose not to circumcise my girl. Circumcision is purely a cultural phenomenon. NonJewish male circ. was originally promoted as a way to curb masturbation, as masturbation was thought of as sinful and a cause for all sorts of health problems, from hysteria to blindness to epilepsy.

The original thought was that if a male had an extremely painful and traumatic experience with his genitals, he would be less apt to fool around with them. The "experts" also concluded that if there was no foreskin to tug at and no head to "discover" beneath it, boys would be less prone to masturbate.

So it became the norm to circumcise all boys at birth. As time went on doctors kept trying to come up with reasons why circ. is beneficial. Over time, every single reason they came up with has been disproven. They continue to circ. because it is extremely difficult to admit that your profession has done something so cruel and harmful for so many years for absolutely no justifiable reason at all!

The pain is certainly a factor, as well. 99% of boys receive little or no pain relief for this surgery. It is ten minutes of ripping, cutting, and clamping at the most sensitive part of the infant's body. Babies often fall into a state of shock because the pain is so severe. Usually, when a mom or nurse or doc says "Oh, he barely made a peep!" or "Oh, he slept right through it!", it's because they were in shock.

As far as it being cleaner and healthier... not true at all. As Frank pointed out, we have managed to populate the earth quite nicely. All mammals have foreskins. If a man didn't need a foreskin, evolution would've phased them out a looooooong time ago! Combining form and function, cutting off the foreskin is the equivalent of removing the clitoris, vaginal sphincter and outer labia. Yes, women could still procreate, she might have less infections, and she could still orgasm and give birth. HOWEVER, does this give us reason to genitally modify women, as well?

It's interesting, because every single reason we give for justifying male circ. are the same exact reasons other cultures use to justify female circ. As I said before, it is a cultural phenomenon used to control sexuality. Nothing more, nothing less.
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#21 of 55 Old 02-05-2005, 02:19 PM
 
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Often when the discussion of circumcision gets down to a debate, those trying to justify circumcision resort to linking to news articles, op-ed pieces, a press release or something they saw on The Oprah Show. Those are pretty much worthless and I demand to see the actual study. If I can't see the actual study, it ain't worth doodle.

The link above is a news article taken from a press release and really tells you little and it is difficult to really debate with this tid-bit of information. I'm into minutiae and really like to see these studies so that I can see what the limits are and what the confounders are. I happened to find the actual study. for those like me that like to spend an hour or so of plowing through statistics and deciphering medical jargon and scientific terms, here is the actual study:

http://www.prweb.com/prfiles/2004/11...-_Van_Howe.pdf



Enjoy!



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#22 of 55 Old 02-06-2005, 04:11 AM
 
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Hi from Scandinavia!

As others have stated, USA is the only country practising routine infant circumcision for 'medical' reasons. Even suggesting something like that here would get people furious. Besides, doctors refuse to do it. Male circumcision is viewed as horrible and violating than female circumcision.
Here, boys/men actually needing circumcision for medical reason is extremely rare - less than 0.006%. That pretty much makes foreskin one of the healthiest bodypart! As long as you take care of intact penis correctly = leave it alone!!!! Unfortenately American medical community is very poorly educated when it comes to correct care of intact penis - you can check the sticky's on the top of this page(warning for parents of intact son).

This is how circumcision is done in USA;

http://www.cirp.org/library/procedure/plastibell/

http://www.circumcisionquotes.com/circvid9.rm

http://www.intact.ca/vidintro.htm

AUDIO only: http://www.cirp.org/library/procedur...ibell/circ.wav
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#23 of 55 Old 02-06-2005, 02:30 PM
 
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Quote:
when he gets married, an uncircumcised penis will hurt the woman during sex?!?!?
I can tell you from first hand experience that sex with a circumcised man is MUCH more painful- like a previous poster said- it causes much more soreness than sex with a an intact man. I guess this may be TMI for some but it is my experience- I have had both here is my experience: My fiance is circed and we have to use lube every time we have sex to avoid the soreness that occurs otherwise- it also takes circed men longer to orgasm (and not in a good way) because they have reduced sensation. They also tend to go soft more often than intact men. I find myself wishing that my man wasn't circed because I know it feels better with an intact man- not worrying over lube, not thinking "god I got off 15 minutes ago and he's still trying to get off- how long is this going to last- god he just went soft"

I am pregnant with a boy too and I can't wait to tell him "I respected you and protected you" and know that he will have much better sexual function than some of his peers. Who would want to deprive their son and his future mate of the best sexual experience possible?

So many people don't even think about the foreskin as a sexual organ- my mom even said "why would you want to keep all that ugly extra skin?" well mom, because it isn't "extra" and it isn't "ugly"

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#24 of 55 Old 02-06-2005, 04:50 PM
 
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I've posted this elsewhere, but thought it might be worth re-posting on this thread, to give a different perspective.

My dh is intact (he's British, and they don't circ over here, although they used to about 50 years ago).

Let me tell you - it definitely doesn't hurt to have sex! It's quite nice, funnily enough. :LOL

Now, I'm a bit old-fashioned, and dh is my 'one and only', so I can't give you comparisons. But since DH is intact, I know what a normal unaroused penis looks like - and the glans is covered.

In a normal, intact penis, the foreskin comes back when the man is aroused, uncovering the glans.

So you only see the uncovered glans when the man is aroused.

Except, of course, if the man is circumcised - in which case, the penis has been cut so that it will look permanently aroused.

Quite honestly, I would be embarrassed to see my ds's uncovered glans. That is a private part of his body, and again - having it uncovered denotes arousal (not something a mom wants to see in her son, right?! :LOL ).

But a circumcised baby has been cut so that he will look permanently aroused. When you think about it, that is a very warped thing to do.

It's been pointed out here that the current 'fashion' for circumcision is to leave quite a lot of foreskin, so some circumcised babies still look 'intact' (and so not aroused) - but that doesn't negate the point that the parents are then told that he'll 'grow into it' - meaning that at some point in the future, the glans will be permanently exposed.
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#25 of 55 Old 02-06-2005, 10:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Love2learn
Why do you chose not to?
I don't know anyone who has chosen not to. Is it because of the pain??
Not entirely, it was a factor (like delaying shots, I didn't want his first few days to be tramatic), but mostly I don't feel right about parents imposing their ideas of sexuality on their babies. I find tatoos extremely sexy on a man, but I would never think of tatooing my infant son. Parents who think circ'd penises "look better" are taking what they find sexualy attractive and putting that on their children. I frankly think that's rather sick. As for the "health reasons" - even a quick read through any reputable source will show you there are no clear health benefits to circ'ing. If you've ever had a UTI, you know they're uncomfortable but easily treated with antibiotics. I wouldn't think of having my genitals sliced off just to prevent that.

Quote:
My SIL asked if we were going to circumcise and I told her I don't know yet. (I need to learn about it, I have no clue about either side)
She then tells me how unhealthy it is to not circumcise and how when he gets married, an uncircumcised penis will hurt the woman during sex?!?!?
You're going to run across a lot of opinions in this discussion. It tends to bring up a lot of emotion from people, both for and against. Just remember, it's not your SILs penis and she'll never be affected by your decision. Your son will live the repercussions of your choice for the rest of his life. He's the only one you'll have to answer to, and you may have to do that some day. What would you tell him if he asked why you did it? As a mother, I never wanted to utter the words "because everyone else was doing it" - kind of blows away a lot of what you try to teach you kids.

Quote:
Also , most of my friends (Christians) mention, "Well, it's in the Bible"
Anyway, I want to be well informed so where do I start reading about all of this?
I'm not an active Christian, but even I know that's an ignorant statement. Yes, Jesus was circumcised (he was Jewish) - he was also crucified, but I don't see parents rushing out to do that to their sons. If you're focusing on what he looked like naked, then you're missing his point entirely
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#26 of 55 Old 02-06-2005, 10:31 PM
 
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Just say NO.
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#27 of 55 Old 02-06-2005, 11:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Love2learn
Why do you chose not to?
I don't know anyone who has chosen not to. Is it because of the pain?
My SIL asked if we were going to circumcise and I told her I don't know yet. (I need to learn about it, I have no clue about either side)
She then tells me how unhealthy it is to not circumcise and how when he gets married, an uncircumcised penis will hurt the woman during sex?!?!?
Also , most of my friends (Christians) mention, "Well, it's in the Bible"
Anyway, I want to be well informed so where do I start reading about all of this?
Next time you talk to your SIL about circumcision maybe you should ask her some of these questions:

How can it be unhealthy if every boy (Every mammal as well.) is born with a foreskin?

How can something that's supposed to be there hurt a woman during sex? Did you know that there was a survey done and it showed that most women prefer having sex with an intact man?

Did you know that in the NT of the Bible it says that circumcision is unnecessary and there actually appears to be a warning for those that do it?

Did you know that most boys don't get pain relief, and that in the beginning the reason they did it without pain relief was in hopes that the boy would associate the pain with masturbation so he wouldn't do it (Non-religious circumcision in the US was started to stop boys from masturbating. They knew that it would remove sensitive nerve endings with the tissue thus making it not feel as good. The same goes for sex for circumcised men.)

Did you know that the rate of circed vs. intact is getting close to 50/50 now?

Did you know that the US is the ONLY country that circs the majority of it's boys for non-religious reasons?

Did you know that they circumcise girls in other countries and use some of the same excuses you gave me to circumcise my son?

And then use these links to educate her (Think of this as an opportunity to possibly save another child from this atrocity.)


Similarities in Attitudes and Misconceptions toward Infant Male Circumcision in North America and Ritual Female Genital Mutilation in Africa.

Separated at Birth: Did circumcision ruin your sex life?

Mothers Against Circumcison

DOCTORS OPPOSING CIRCUMCISION (D.O.C.)

Mothering: The Case Against Circumcision

If you read nothing else, please check out this site, it's very important. Historical Medical Quotes on Circumcision

The Circumcision Information and Resource Pages

Answers from the Bible to Questions about Circumcision

And if you decide to do it you really should see it done first: Understanding the intact video
Circumcision methods

Ask yourself this....What other body part would you cut off of your child at birth because others do it? Is it really your right to cut any healthy part off of your child? If you had a girl and lived in a country where they circ girls would you circumcise your girls? It's a good sign that you are here. It shows you want to learn instead of being a sheep. Good for you! Now go educate your SIL. :LOL
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#28 of 55 Old 02-07-2005, 03:28 AM
 
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You've gotten a lot of good responses...

I was in the same place last year and the pain issue caused me to look into circumcision. As a previous poster mentioned, just reading the descriptions in The Baby Book (Dr. Sears) and even What to Expect When You Are Expecting (mainstream) made me pause. At first I thought it was somethign that was done out of necessity and was just concerned about how much pain it caused, and how you cared for it after it was done. What I found changed my mind. I ended up not circumcising my son.

The main reason was because I did not want to cause my son pain for something that was not medically necessary. After making my decision and learning more about it I think it is crazy that I had to justify NOT removing a part of my sons body to myself, my husband, and some of my family (both side, although dh's side is Jewish).

Then almost everyone thougth it would be hard to care for. Everyone from my mom to my best friend thought I had to 'do' somethign (no one knew 'what') at every diaper change. NONONONONO It is sad to note is that MANY of the 'problems' in intact children/adults are due to parents or doctors forcibly retracting a child's foreskin-- this should never happen. Many US doctors still don't know the correct way to care for a natural intact penis and may try to do this- or may tell a parent to do this at each diaper change- this is wrong, painful, and causes infections and other problems. Almost ALL figures of 'problems' with intactness are elevated by this improper practice or doctors not familiar with intactness who choose to circ when not necessary

So think of it from another perspective.... why would anyone cut off a totally healthy and naturaly part of another person's body? There must be a pretty good reason, right? It must be essential to a child's health- the AAP even states "Since circumcision is not essential to a child’s health, parents should choose what is best for their child by looking at the benefits and risks. "

If you are interested in a site that compares risks of circing and intactness, here's a good one: http://www.caringforkids.cps.ca/babies/Circumcision.htm
I was surprised to see that many children who are circumcised require re-circumcising, for example.


Jessica

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#29 of 55 Old 02-07-2005, 05:11 PM
 
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you have gotten tons of info.

kudos to you for taking the time to get the information beforehand.

l, <>< wife to my sweetie, proud mama to 3 cubs, 2 who clw & 1 that i i ep for . baby was evicted early by induction due to severe pre-e/hellp syndrome
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#30 of 55 Old 02-07-2005, 06:59 PM
 
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First, congratulations on expecting your son!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Love2learn
Why do you chose not to?
I don't know anyone who has chosen not to. Is it because of the pain?
Well, we chose not to for many reasons, most of which have already been mentioned, but just in case:

1. Our son's body is his own -- we wouldn't pierce his ears or have him tattooed without his permission, so why on Earth would we remove a part of his body (especially his penis!) without it? We agreed that if he grows up and decides he'd like to be circumcized after all, we'll pay for the surgery.

2. It's incredibly painful while healing. I have two younger brothers, both of whom are circumcized, and I remember very vividly their screams of pain during urination for several days after the procedure. I also remember how red and raw their poor penises looked. I could never do that to my child.

3. My husband is a physician, and he was adamant that our son stay intact. There is no medical reason to circumcize. Chronic infections are almost always due to bad hygiene, so if you change and bathe your son regularly there's no reason to fear problems fo this sort.

Quote:
My SIL asked if we were going to circumcise and I told her I don't know yet. (I need to learn about it, I have no clue about either side)
She then tells me how unhealthy it is to not circumcise and how when he gets married, an uncircumcised penis will hurt the woman during sex?!?!?
Your SIL is terribly misinformed. Foreskin is exactly that -- skin -- and can in no way hurt anyone during intercourse. In addition, being intact can actually enhance a man's pleasure.

Quote:
Also , most of my friends (Christians) mention, "Well, it's in the Bible"
Circumcision is a Hebrew rite of passage, not a Christian one. Jesus was circumcized because he was Jewish.

I hope this helps. There are many folks here who have a lot more information on the subject, so you're in the right place. Good luck to you, you're in for a great adventure!

Daughter since '68 ~Sister since '72 ~Wife since '97 ~ Mama since DS 5/03& DD 10/08
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