I'm pretty torn on circumcision (please don't delete this!) - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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#31 of 42 Old 02-15-2005, 10:42 AM
 
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I'm sure that someone has mentioned this in a post but last night it came to me...

If you cut the penis it loses function and then when they are in their 30's they start loosing sensation and control. I think we have created a disease in men Erectile Disfunction. My mom always told me that American men were bad in bed because they are cut. We are european so no man in my family has ever been. Makes sense as to why Viagra is so popular in US and just a "toy" drug in Europe.

The Durex Global Sex Survey says the world average is 103 times per year. While the US is still above average (111) it pales to Greece (133) and France (137). In fact, except for South Africa (114) there is no other country that routinely cuts boys (and I'm not all that certain how common it is in S. Africa).

The average time spent on foreplay worldwide is 19.7 minutes and the US is average, while Uk (22.5), Germany (22.2), Irish (21.8) and Spain (21.7) lead off. Again, it seems that the US laggs in forplay, possibly because of male loss of control, you wouldn't want to spend a whole lot of time on the wind up if it makes you pitch before you get to the mound (to use a baseball euphanism).

You can read the report here:
http://www.durex.com/cm/GSS2004Resul...?intMenuOpen=9
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#32 of 42 Old 02-15-2005, 11:19 AM
 
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My husband was circumcised in childhood for medical reasons. He was around 10 and doesn't remember exactly why it was done, but thinks it had to do with an outgrowth of skin if it makes any sense. The surgery was performed under general anesthesia and he remembers being quite sore and itchy afterwards, but not being able to touch his penis. This experience did not make him wish he had been circumcised as an infant. It makes him empathize with the babies who have this done with little or no anesthesia or pain medication at an age when they cannot even understand what is happening to them. He was old enough to understand what was happening and had anesthesia, post-op pain meds, and the ability to verbally express his pain. Although our son will not look like his father, we know we will be able to explain to our son why we chose not to do this to him.
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#33 of 42 Old 02-15-2005, 01:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by oliviagoddess
If you cut the penis it loses function and then when they are in their 30's they start loosing sensation and control. I think we have created a disease in men Erectile Disfunction.
Yep, I've come up with that same idea. I call it "The Sliding Board Effect." I believe that as we age, our sexual quotient declines like going down a sliding board until we get to the bottom which is erectile dysfunction in men. I believe that because of circumcision desensitizing the penis that circumcised men start further down the sliding board and get to the bottom at an earlier age. Edward O. Laumann, researcher at The University of Chicago found evidence of this in finding that circumcised men suffer impotency years before their intact peers.


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My mom always told me that American men were bad in bed because they are cut.
Ever wonder why European men have such a reputation as great lovers and American men have a "Slam, bam, Thank you Ma'am" reputation?


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Makes sense as to why Viagra is so popular in US and just a "toy" drug in Europe.
Makes you wonder why The US consumes over half of all of the Viagra type products produced in the world (54%) and why Indonesian men (Muslim and circumcised) are the highest per capita users and why Isreal is the largest counterfieter of Viagra type products and why there is a counterfieting problem in all Muslim countries.


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The Durex Global Sex Survey says the world average is 103 times per year. While the US is still above average (111) it pales to Greece (133) and France (137). In fact, except for South Africa (114) there is no other country that routinely cuts boys (and I'm not all that certain how common it is in S. Africa).
In English speaking South Africa, it was quite common several decades ago as they took their culture from England and many adult white South African men are circumcised. Certain tribes of black South Africans have also traditionally circumcised.


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The average time spent on foreplay worldwide is 19.7 minutes and the US is average, while Uk (22.5), Germany (22.2), Irish (21.8) and Spain (21.7) lead off. Again, it seems that the US laggs in forplay, possibly because of male loss of control, you wouldn't want to spend a whole lot of time on the wind up if it makes you pitch before you get to the mound (to use a baseball euphanism).
I suspect that it is because circumcised men get far less sensory input from foreplay and are less satisfied by it so they have less interest in performing and receiving it. I really think the main motivation for foreplay among American men is to ready the partner for the Grand Finale' and is mostly something they do from necessity rather than from wanting it.



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#34 of 42 Old 02-15-2005, 01:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by achintyasamma
My husband was circumcised in childhood for medical reasons. He was around 10 and doesn't remember exactly why it was done, but thinks it had to do with an outgrowth of skin if it makes any sense.

From your description and his age, I suspect he was misdiagnosed with phimosis when he was really absolutely normal and there was no indication for the circumcision. This is still very common today. We have had many Moms come here after their doctor diagnosed phimosis and prescribed a "necessary" circumcision. As far as I know, none of these boys have been circumcised and all are happy and healthy.




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#35 of 42 Old 02-15-2005, 07:50 PM
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Gee, OliviaGoddess, what would you suggest cutting off a girl/woman with persistent yeast infections???


And you're wrong..........only plain water should be used to wash under the foreskin......soap can actually irritate the area. Hopefully you don't wash your inner female parts with soap...ouch! Water alone does the trick, for men and women.

And of course, for men and women, cleaning "those parts" doesn't need to happen until puberty.

"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
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#36 of 42 Old 02-15-2005, 08:08 PM
 
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Our pediatrician told us that, unlike a womans' vagina, the mans' penis doesn't "grow bacteria" under the foreskin. So, there shouldn't be reason for infection...
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#37 of 42 Old 02-15-2005, 08:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by A&A
Gee, OliviaGoddess, what would you suggest cutting off a girl/woman with persistent yeast infections???
No, but sometimes I did wish it would just go walk off by itself and be all itchy and yeasty without me. In my teen years I was just one big yeast infection walking around. Not until I was 25 did someone suggest it had something to do with diet.

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Originally Posted by A&A
And you're wrong..........only plain water should be used to wash under the foreskin......soap can actually irritate the area. Hopefully you don't wash your inner female parts with soap...ouch! Water alone does the trick, for men and women.

And of course, for men and women, cleaning "those parts" doesn't need to happen until puberty.
Ok, I was wrong on the soap part, but I was thinking of heavy sweaty conditions (like sports or working outside in 100 degree weather) where soap might be called for since there is the extra sweat and stink factor.
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#38 of 42 Old 02-15-2005, 08:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
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thanks for all your replies, i'm still trying to wade through all the information!

photosmile2.gif mom to 5 year old haye REPlaySkateboard04HL.gif(9.27.2005) and brand new baby zaobabyf.gif(5.23.2011)
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#39 of 42 Old 02-15-2005, 09:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oliviagoddess
Ok, I was wrong on the soap part, but I was thinking of heavy sweaty conditions (like sports or working outside in 100 degree weather) where soap might be called for since there is the extra sweat and stink factor.

Well, except that mucosal skin ( the inner foreskin and glans surface) has no sweat glands so there is no sweat or stink factor. Next!




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#40 of 42 Old 02-16-2005, 03:35 PM
 
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Hello ryleeee,

Here are some fine statements to keep in mind about this sick practice, this torture and sexual mutilation of the helpless healthy (who *never* consent to becoming victims damaged for the rest of their lives):

"I have never been able to accept the fact that someone cut part of my penis off when I was a baby. The sheer monstrousness of it haunts every waking moment of my life. Sometimes I think I’m beginning to make some sort of adjustment to it, but then I see an unmutilated man in a magazine or shower and I become overwhelmed by uncontrollable feelings of outrage and disbelief that I was made the victim for life of something so sick. Sometimes I feel I’m at the edge of madness and just can’t handle it."

"My feelings about the doctor who circumcised me are too violent to describe."

"I was just a baby - I couldn’t stop them."

"Butchers!"

"Butchered at Birth" [Printed on T-shirt on teenage boy on MTV, early March 1993]

"There’s something very, very wrong and very frightening about a society that systematically tortures and mutilates babies."

"Why would anyone cut off part of a baby’s penis? Why would anyone let himself or anyone else do it?"

"The worst thing about circumcision is that it produces circumcisers."

"Fear, pain, crippling, disfigurement, and humiliation are the classic ways to break the human spirit. Circumcision includes them all."


The above were collected by intactivist John A. Erickson. See his two tip-top websites:
www.foreskin.org
www.SexuallyMutilatedChild.org


I know how perverse and evil this practice is. At birth I (an atheist born to Catholics) was tortured and sexually mutilated by an old Jew, an MD who had been born in Russia in 1888. Due to the excessive degree of the sexual mutilation inflicted on me by that old Jew, I never had a normal sex life, not even during masturbation. This is why I do what I can to help end this atrocity and fraud.

Roland

~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Sharing the awareness that the human penis is designed correctly the way it normally comes into the world: with its foreskin intact; that a male’s possession of his own penis - including his foreskin - is his inviolable birthright; and that a child’s chances for health and happiness throughout his life are greater - by far - if he is allowed to keep all of the penis he is born with."

- John A. Erickson


First, be a good animal.

- Ralph Waldo Emerson
[A remark that fits well with circumcision. What animal - other than the human animal - mutilates the sex organs of its offspring?]


It may well be that a society's greatest madness seems normal to itself.

- Allan Bloom _The Closing of the American Mind_
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#41 of 42 Old 02-18-2005, 12:57 AM
 
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Hi ryleee,

When my son was born 6 years ago, I had zero clue about the importance of the foreskin, or the fact that it's bonded to the glans, or the potential complications of circumcision -- I really did think a foreskin was just a little extra flap of skin. However, the AAP had recently released their statement that they did *not* recommend circumcision and it had no proven medical benefit, and I decided it wouldn't make sense to have a procedure done on my baby that would cause him pain if it didn't do him any good.

So you see, the fact that my son still has his foreskin is more luck than anything else -- I only wanted to spare him unneccessary discomfort. It wasn't till I came to Mothering & read in this forum that I knew what a monumental thing a foreskin was, and I broke down in tears with gratitude that I hadn't robbed him of it. I couldn't believe what a narrow escape he'd had. I knew that if I'd made a different choice back then I would've been crushed with regret for something I'd have no way to undo.

Your baby's so lucky, because he'll have the benefit of a mama who's *already* equipped with the information she needs to keep him safe. Me, I want to have another baby someday, and I kind of hope it's a boy so I can know from the moment he's born what a gift I'm giving him by leaving him intact and perfect.
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#42 of 42 Old 02-21-2005, 01:56 AM
 
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i'm married to a man who is cut. if he were answering your thread, he would say something like 'i don't care that i'm circumcised,i don't know the difference'. our son is intact, it was never even something to discuss. then again, our baby was home-born, we would have had to do it ourselves(lame attempt at a joke).
anyway, i have never posted here before, and feel a little shady to write the following. if my husband starts down the stairs i'll close my browser. :
i frequently mourn what was done to my partner. particularly if i hang out in this forum- so i often don't, (even though i'm really interested in intactivism). a flippant 'choice' made by my MIL 32 years ago is now harmful to our sex life.
i sometimes look at him and feel piteous for the baby that he was. this makes me feel like utter SHIT, in a way that i'm not eloquent enough to describe further.
i can't talk to him about this, so i just shut up. he says he's uninterested in restoration, so that's that. i am angry at him b/c i feel like he should be angry for what was done to him, even if he is at peace with it (does that make sense?). he merely says that he doesn't know any different, so why should he care? i believe that the surgery now impacts the quality of our sex life, thus our marriage, thus our lives.
i could go on and on, but i just wanted to say that *I*, a woman, who has genital integrity, who has a child of each sex with genital integrity, feels intimately, deeply harmed forever b/c of male infant genital mutilation.
i didn't read all the other responses, but wanted to add the wife's perspective. your son might have one someday.
and, congratulations!
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