mama to 9 year old h 3 year old z and brand spanking new baby m
The mamas and dads here have great info.
Congrats on your upcoming arrivial!
mama to 9 year old h 3 year old z and brand spanking new baby m
When I was researching it 5 years ago, I came up with NO good evidence that I should circumcise my son.
The US has one of the highest circumcision rates, if not the highest. A friend of mine form England thinks we are nuts! I don't think he personally knows anyone who is cut over there.
Others can give you much better info. I am so glad that you are open minded to the option of not circumcising. It is a painful event for babies. They need our protection.
My opinion is that later in life my sons can always chose to get it done if they would like. But the can never go back and replace their foreskin if I had chose to have it removed. It is their body. They should have that choice, not me.
Some also think it protects against disease. Those studies have not been proven though, in fact many have been disproven.
I think what you need to consider is that circumcision hurts your infant horribly. They may not remember it directly but it has to affect their development.
It has no benefits that have been substaniated.
So why would you do it?
Is it worth a surgery to make your child have a penis that looks similar to his father's? What about their nose, something they will certainly see a lot more often than each other's penises?
Originally Posted by ryleeee
Is it completely a vanity thing? Because if it is then there's no way I'd do that to my kid. But I've heard that there are medical reasons...?? Like later on in life stuff could happen...
In European countries, where circumcision is virtually unknown, only a handful out of hundreds of thousands of intact men will end up needing circumcision for medical reasons.
Circumcising your son as a baby to prevent the miniscule chance that he might develop a problem later on that would require circumcision as an adult would be like cutting off your baby daughter's breasts on the chance she might develop breast cancer as an adult. Except your daughter is FAR FAR more likely to develop breast cancer than your son is to have a problem with his foreskin.
You can access medical papers, information, etc. as well as information on the function of the foreskin at www.cirp.org and http://research.cirp.org
You can also read about the history of circumcision in this country - the only country in the world that currently circumcises routinely for non-religious reasons. Routine infant circ was started in the 19th century as a way to stop masturbation, cure epilepsy (seriously!), etc. It has been a procedure in search of a reason ever since. All sorts of "medical" reasons have been advanced for circumcision - preventing epilepsy, tuberculosis, syphilis, other STDs, cervical cancer - and every single one of them has been proven false.
I think you will find the more you research, the more circumcision makes no sense at all! Any more than cutting off your daughter's clitoris and labia would make sense for medical reasons.
Good luck with your research!
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I'm also in Canada and it's already something like 50/50 here now, so things are certainly changing over time.
There have been medical claims that it reduces risks of certain diseases of the penis, but they've all been disproved. So once I learned about that, it just didn't make sense to do something permanent to my baby boys. I don't feel like I own my kids, you know? I've been entrusted with them until they are independant.
I know this sounds like we're all anti-circ, because we mainly are, but it's only because we have researched it ourselves. The Canadian Academy of Pediatrics doesn't endorse routine circumcision either. It's just that so many people think they should circumcize because everyone else does, and it doesn't seem a good enough reason. My son's penises wouldn't look like their Dad's anyway whether they were circed or not, you know? (I mean size, hair, etc., not to be gross!)
Dr. Sears, on circumcision: http://askdrsears.com/html/1/t012000.asp
Mothering Magazine, “The Case Against Circumcision”: http://www.mothering.com/articles/ne...cumcision.html
Garry Harryman's "Lost List": http://www.norm.org/lost.html
Men’s Health article, “Separated at Birth”: http://www.noharmm.org/separated.htm
Vincent Black’s, “Vulnerability of Men”: http://www.udonet.com/circumcision/v...ty_of_men.html
AUDIO only: http://www.cirp.org/library/procedur...ibell/circ.wav
The most important thing to remember that NO (not one) medical organization in the world recommends routine infant circumcision as a preventative health measure...it's completely elective, and done for cosmetic/cultural/religious reasons---not medical ones.
There is no reason to put your son through it.
Tina ~ SAH- head Mama to -
DS (07/'03), DD (05'05), DS, unplanned UC (01/'09), DD (06/'11) ...
SURPRISE! New little one, due Sept. 2013
Yes, North America is the only place in the world where non-religious circumcision is done. Here it is totally unknown and I, as so many Europians, was absolutely horrified when I lived a year in USA and learned what was done to little boys. Since I come from 100% intact culture, the health reasons sounded so ridiculous. Here, men actually needing circumcision for health reasons is LESS than 0.006%.
If you are interested in knowing why circumcision started in USA, read this, In the Physicians' Own Words;
A word of a warning though if you decide to leave your son intact, the medical community in USA is unfortenately very uneducated about the proper care of intact, normal penis.
Please read this thread ... "A Warning For Parents of Intact Sons"
It is purely cosmetic.
I was pretty shocked when I researched it myself five years ago, because surely there must be some very compelling reason to do that to a newborn, but no, it's completely irrational.
The link in my signature is a very nice non-threatening introduction to the absurdity of circumcision. I'm so glad you've asked about it!
Originally Posted by ryleeee
I'm Pretty torn on circumcision (Please don’t delete this)
|Up until about 20 minutes ago I was all for circumcising my boy (if we have one) but...I've been reading and I'm feeling pretty nauseous about the whole thing.|
|Now I don't want to get everyone all riled up and yelling at me, because I KNOW this is a really touchy subject here. But I'd like to make a really informed decision.|
|Can somebody tell me medical reasons as to why people have their boys circumcised? What are the benefits/etc...|
The American Academy of Pediatrics assembled a Taskforce on Circumcision about 35 years ago to investigate circumcision. At their latest meeting in the early 1990’s, they studied 671 research projects on circumcision looking for benefits and they did not find even one conclusive benefit from circumcision. However, they did find substantial and documented risks and those risks can be severe all of the way up to and including death.
|please don't be biased, I'm trying not to be. I'm not trying to offend anyone either. I just want my husband and I to make the right choice for us and our baby.|
|Is it completely a vanity thing? Because if it is then there's no way I'd do that to my kid.|
|But I've heard that there are medical reasons...?? Like later on in life stuff could happen...|
There is also something called lichen sclerosis that is very rare. In all of the time I have been doing this, I’ve only seen one possible case that was cleared up quickly and easily. However, there are reports of this infection in Scandinavia that have required a circumcision. The chances of this happening? Less than 1 in 18,000. Odds like that are why I don’t play the lottery.
There is also something called “phimosis” that is very rare but often falsely diagnosed. Chances of this are in the range of 1 in 18,000. Generally, it is treated with circumcision but there are less intrusive and severe alternatives. There are also some cases of phimosis caused by diabetes in men generally older than 60 years old. The risk of this is a fraction of 1%.
Finally, there is the risk of penile cancer. This is something that gets way, way too much press space. It is incredibly rare. To give you an idea of how rare it is, imagine a city of 50,000 people where all of the men are intact. In a city like that, you could expect one case of penile cancer every 156 years. While there are a lot of assertions that penile cancer is more prevalent in intact men, there is just as much evidence that there is no difference whether the man is circumcised or intact. Personally, I have only heard of one case of penile cancer in real life and the cancer was on the circumcision scar. Kinda knocks that one in the head, Huh?
Actually, penile cancer is just a skin cancer just like the ones you see on people’s faces and arms. They go to the doctor’s office and they are removed in a very simple procedure. The patient leaves with a Band-Aid over the site and that’s the end of it. However, just like that skin cancer, if penile cancer is ignored for years, it can kill you. There is no excuse for any man dying of penile cancer. It’s too simple to cure.
Now, let’s look at the flip side. Meatal Stenosis is an affliction exclusively of circumcised boys. It just doesn’t affect intact boys at all. Meatal Stenosis is when the urinary opening becomes inflamed and then heals over. It can be an emergency situation that has to be handled RIGHT NOW! Although rare, it can result in kidney failure. The exact incidence of meatal Stenosis is unknown but is at least 9% and perhaps as high as 31%. The only cure is SURGERY. Not what you want for your son, is it?
There is also the possibility of adhesions. These have become quite common because the way circumcisions are done has changed over the past few years. Previously, so much skin was removed from baby boys that when they grew up, they suffered from painful erections and worse. Occasionally, so much was removed that skin had to be moved from another part of the body to recover the denuded penis. We have had one case of that happening here. The bad thing is that the skin on the penile shaft is only similar to the skin on the eye lid and no one is going to cut off an eyelid to replace skin on the penis. The donor skin is usually taken from the hip, back, thigh or similar area. This skin looks and acts very different from penile skin and the cosmetic results of this skin graft surgery is usually very poor and it leaves a large scar at the donor site as well.
To avoid all of this, doctors have changed to “loose circumcisions” which often leave the child looking as if no circumcision was done at all which leaves the question of “Well then, why do it at all?” These loose circumcisions are very prone to adhesions and are very difficult to prevent.
The worst complication is one that has had a profound effect in Alberta. In August 2003, Ryliegh McWillis was circumcised in Vancouver and died a few days later. Canada’s and Alberta’s circumcision rate was already low but as a result, it dropped an additional 40% in 2003 and a similar drop is expected for 2004 when the figures are tabulated. Less than 1 in 10 of your son’s school mates will be circumcised, so that knocks out any concerns about the “locker room.” As a matter of fact, if you do circumcise your son, he will be the “odd man out” among his peers. I also suspect you will find it hard to find a doctor willing to circumcise your son as the CPS has issued some very stern warnings to it’s member doctors against providing circumcisions and the vast majority have heeded that warning and will not do circumcisions any more.
These are just the questions you have asked. You may also want to know about the pain involved in the procedure and the post-op recovery time, the human and civil rights issues, the sexual effect of circumcision and many other areas of concern. Ask questions and we will be glad to answer. You may also want to check out the sticky at the top of the forum titled “Web Resources.” There is a wealth of information there from reliable sources.
It's hard to follow Franks' post - he pretty much covers everything! But you've heard from Scandinavia - I thought I'd let you hear from the UK.
I'm American, but live in the UK. My husband is British and intact. We've been married for 10+ years, and during that time, he's had one yeast infection, which was cleared up in a few days - he just put some Canesten cream on it, and that was that.
I did (awhile back) ask him if he wishes he'd been circumcised at birth to prevent that one infection and him having to use Canesten cream for a week. His response was, 'Hell, no!'.
In the UK, they used to circumcise 50+ years ago. When the National Health Service came in (and suddenly the government was paying for health care), they took a good long look at circumcision and stopped providing it, because it simply causes more problems than it prevents (and the problems it might prevent - like an infection of the foreskin, since you can't get an infection in a body part you don't have! - are trivial).
Now, whenever I tell anyone that Americans (and some Canadians) routinely circumcise their little boys, everyone (without exception) is horrified. People react in exactly the same way that we react to female circumcision in Africa...the principle of the two is the same.
If it isn't OK to genitally modify little girls, why is it OK to genitally modify little boys? Something to think about...
Must run, as we need to leave in about 5 minutes...there is a link floating around about a study that was done showing that circumcision is not cost-effective medically (i.e., in causes more medical problems than it prevents).
Good luck with your research - lots of good links!
It has immunological functions that are provided by a special type of cell that is in the foreskin. The tip of the penis is a mucosal type skin and it is intended to be covered - think of eyelids for eyes or the type of skin on the inside of your mouth. It also is important for sexual functioning, uncircumcised men have greater sensitivity and better sex lives.
Here's a link to information from the Canadian Pediatric Society on circumcision:
The rates in Canada vary from Province to Province, but overall, the rate is ~17%, not 50/50 as previously stated. Here are some links on Canadian stats:
Here is an extremely telling memo from the Registrar of the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Saskatchewan to its members. It's a must read to understand the current Canadian medical thinking on this issue:
Hope this helps!
Also, you may want to read through this (long) thread of mothers who regret circumcising their sons:
It does take a paradigm shift to go from "yes, I'll circumcise" to "no way in **** would I ever circumcise!" But once you make that shift, you can't believe you ever considered it in the first place.
PS. Both my pediatrician and Obstetrician (at the time I had my son) told me that there are NO medical reasons to circ. But, both of them offered to circumcise my son, anyway. Go figure. Must be the $$$$. (I told them both NO!!!!!)
I was pg with my ds when I found out how pointless circ'ing is. I am SO happy I found out in time to save my little man from that useless pain.
And, just in case a previous link doesn't mention it, circ'ing has also been linked to breastfeeding difficulties for the traumatized baby boys, if you're considering bf.
Way to advocate for your boy before you can even hold him in your arms!
It's such a relief to finally trust yourself.
This is advice to a mom who doesn't want to circumcise, but her dh does - so she is asking for ways to approach the issue with him. Post #19, from e&r would be very relevant to your situation, though, since you are in Canada and the circ rate there is only 17%.
E&R is a teacher, and teaches small children. She gives her experiences of over-hearing conversations between small boys, some of whom are circed and some of whom aren't. Reading it made my heart break for those circed little boys.
Since you are in Canada, where the circ rate is even lower than in Washington state, this scenario could well be in your son's future.
Here is the link to the study showing that circumcision is not cost-effective medically:
IMO, infant circumcision is purely cosmetic. Meaning that parents usually do it so their kid "matches" Daddy or friends. My hubby is circed but our boys are not. There is absolutely no problem there and we don't anticipate there to be a problem in the future. As far as being like his friends, Alberta has a circumcision rate of only 20% so if you do it, you will in fact be putting him into the minority.
I live in Ontario and the rates here have drastically dropped since my dh was born. Just by that alone it only makes sense not to circumcise. I figure that if it was such a great idea that more and more people would be doing it, not less and less.
Anyhoo, here is a link to some great info that I found while expecting my first and some more since then,
I hope you find what you are looking for.
Marie Antoinette's husband Louis (14?) had a problem where his foresckin never separated from his penis. He could not perform sexually and had to have the problem resolved with a medical circumsision when he was like 25.
The other reason is if the man had persisten, major yeast infections and can't keep himself clean (probably the reason it started in the desert 5,000 years ago). This can be avoided with proper hygene (retract, wash with soap and make sure you retract when drying) and a diet that reduces yeast, so this is not really a reason.
Keep in mind that the 1st reason is VERY rare and that the complications from circumsision are MANY!!!
If you never heard his story David Reimer, who's penis was burned off in a horrible circ tool accident was raised as a girl until he found out the truth. Unfortunately he commited suicide 5/12/2004 at 38 after a lifetime of tourture.
|The baby was strapped spread-eagle to a plastic board on a counter top, his body covered with a surgical drape with a hole in it to expose his little penis. The baby struggled against restraints that bound his arms and legs, pulling one arm and then the other. When the doctor pinched the foreskin with two forceps, the baby let out a piercing scream, which intensified when the doctor inserted an instrument between the foreskin and glans (head of the penis), tearing the two structures apart. (They are normally attached to each other during infancy and childhood to protect the glans.)
The baby started shaking his head back and forth -- the only part of his body free to move -- as the doctor used another clamp to crush and then cut the foreskin lengthwise. This allowed insertion of the circumcision device, meant to protect the glans, as the foreskin is clamped and crushed against it and then amputated. The baby gasped and choked, no longer able to scream.
As I watched in horror and disbelief, I began to cry. The doctor looked at me and said, "There is no medical reason for doing this." I couldn't believe that medical professionals, dedicated to helping and healing could inflict such pain and anguish on an innocent newborn baby unnecessarily.
First, do no harm
There is no absolute medical indication for routine circumcision of the newborn
Circumcision of the male child cannot be considered an essential component
of adequate total health care
Sadly, there have even been instances when a child was circumcised
without the parents' wishes or consent (in labor I told EVERYONE I came into contact with at the hospital that under no circumstances was my son to be cut)
The fact is that circumcision confers no immunity to any of these diseases; thousands of men with AIDS...are testimony to the failure of circumcision
to offer any degree of immunity to AIDS infections
No one seriously advocates removing the breasts of female infants
to prevent this more common malignancy of breast cancer
Circumcision must be recognized as an equally serious mutilation of men
with equally insubstantial justification for continuing the practice...Most often a poor surgical result is not recognized until years after the event
On balance, circumcision is an unjustifiable preventive for penile cancer
with an unacceptable number of serious complications
The adverse long term consequences of infant circumcision
on the sexual health of American men must be recognized
by physicians, parents, and legislators
I hope I can get to know all of you. I currently have a cerclage in, and I will have it pulled March 8th, so my little bundle will arrive anytime after that.
I've mentioned that they do circumcise women in many parts of the world to many women and most quickly start questioning their prior convictions. Its alright to do it to boys, but not girls... right
Of course I grew up in a country (Ireland) where almost nobody in the country is circumcised... we have water and soap, end of problem
My son was circed when he was 2 days old. To make a VERY long story short it is a pain to take care of. I have to wash it at least 3 times a day (he is over 1yo now). It was also done too tight and will probably have to be corrected at a later date.
There is no medical reason to circ your son. PERIOD!! There are MANY medical reasons to NOT circ your son though.