A word from a teen - Page 4 - Mothering Forums
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The Case Against Circumcision > A word from a teen
BelovedBird's Avatar BelovedBird 10:41 AM 05-13-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by calpurnia
I was actually joking about the idea of penis inspections
They get a full physical. A perfect body, no surgery or modification gets a certain score, circumcision takes that score down. No, I don't think its a joke lookmommy. You think circ (minor surgery) does not count as surgery but arthroscopic knee surgery does. I have a dh who would have served but he wasn't allowed to- he has spina bifida.

LookMommy!'s Avatar LookMommy! 12:10 PM 05-13-2005
Sorry, BB--I still think it's a "myth". At least that's what my dh says. Or else a female (no circ) could theoretically get a 100, which isn't done. I'll see if I can find someone more knowledgeable to ask. In any case, I don't think anyone would argue that the condition of one's penis is in any way relevant to one's army performance.

Also, re con. objectors-- everyone goes in the army (well, with exemptions for some Arabs -- Druze and Beduin serve--, some "ultra" observant Jews--there are many who combine army with yeshiva, and some people with physical or mental or psychiatric disabilties, oh yeah and not pregnant or married women who are released from the draft, did I forget anyone?) but obviously not everyone serves in a combat unit. So in that sense, it is more like national service, with units for education, service, band, etc.

There are also programs for combining university studies with army, working on kibbutz as a part of army, etc.

I never served because I came at age 23 and married 3 months later. My husband does reserves.

Here's to the day when Israel won't NEED an army--


BelovedBird's Avatar BelovedBird 12:45 PM 05-13-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by LookMommy!
Sorry, BB--I still think it's a "myth". At least that's what my dh says. Or else a female (no circ) could theoretically get a 100, which isn't done. I'll see if I can find someone more knowledgeable to ask. In any case, I don't think anyone would argue that the condition of one's penis is in any way relevant to one's army performance.
Any surgical procedure makes one less than perfect in terms of army service. Maybe your husband's examination at lishkat hagiyus was too long ago. It is not a myth that there is a point scale and any surgical procedure and any kind of defect- physical or otherwise brings your score lower- milah included. Where is the myth?
And yes, I have known a guy in perfect shape, 18 never had surgery of any kind, no defects who was told he would have "gotten a perfect score except for the bris".

Quote:
Also, re con. objectors-- everyone goes in the army (well, with exemptions for some Arabs -- Druze and Beduin serve--, some "ultra" observant Jews--there are many who combine army with yeshiva, and some people with physical or mental or psychiatric disabilties, oh yeah and not pregnant or married women who are released from the draft, did I forget anyone?) but obviously not everyone serves in a combat unit. So in that sense, it is more like national service, with units for education, service, band, etc.

There are also programs for combining university studies with army, working on kibbutz as a part of army, etc.

I never served because I came at age 23 and married 3 months later. My husband does reserves.

Here's to the day when Israel won't NEED an army--

Amen!
TenFedNed's Avatar TenFedNed 07:37 PM 11-08-2005
Hi
I haven't been on for a while, and im sorry.
I am 16 now and will probably go to "lishkat hagiyus" soon.

I was wondering if anyone knows if i could somehow convince them not to conscript me during the interview. Any suggestion will be appereciated.
Someone i know said he explained that it is not his country and he would only be waiting for the end of his service and they didn't conscript him. I don't know if i should believe him or if i should try the same.
It wouldn't be lying of course. I don't feel any connection/relation to this country. I just want to be out of here.

Please. Any comment/suggestion would be highly appreciated
Fi.'s Avatar Fi. 12:44 AM 11-09-2005
I say tell them the same thing your friend did.
LookMommy!'s Avatar LookMommy! 03:22 AM 11-09-2005
I feel very sad for you that you have no feelings for Israel, after all that the country has done to absorb you, grant you citizenship, subsidize your family financially (as is the right of every new immigrant from the FSU), give you a free education, etc. I am sad that Israel has failed you in teaching you Zionism and a love for your fellow Israelis.

As an immigrant myself, wife to a reserve soldier and mother of 3 future soldiers, I truly feel that you must have thwarted values not to want to give back to your country in terms of community service (I am not saying you should be in a combat unit if you do not feel inclined, but there are teaching units, social service units, etc.)

However, I can also imagine that your life experience has been different than mine, and certainly I am aware that Christians from Russian backgrounds often face discrimination from their peers in school that I would not be subject to. I wonder if you could talk to a teacher or school advisor about your issue.

There are many information sessions for parents for pre-army teens where you might be given some options. You should also look into studying abroad. Of course, going back to the FSU should not be difficult if you have maintained citizenship and have family there. I understand that if you were to run away from Israel and the army, you may not be allowed back to visit your mother, so that is a risk you should consider. I know a family in that situation, where the American born son can not re-enter Israel where his family lives, but that is the choice he has made.

It is unfortunate that you came to Israel not by choice, since I'm sure your feelings would be much different if it had been your decision. I wish you the best of luck with your choices.
BelovedBird's Avatar BelovedBird 09:01 AM 11-09-2005
Go back to Russia or fake mental illness at the lishkat hagiyus.
Or tell them you are a former drug addict.
I don't really advise lying but it will get you out of army service....
Frankly Speaking's Avatar Frankly Speaking 10:59 AM 11-09-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by LookMommy!
I feel very sad for you that you have no feelings for Israel, after all that the country has done to absorb you, grant you citizenship, subsidize your family financially (as is the right of every new immigrant from the FSU), give you a free education, etc. I am sad that Israel has failed you in teaching you Zionism and a love for your fellow Israelis.

As an immigrant myself, wife to a reserve soldier and mother of 3 future soldiers, I truly feel that you must have thwarted values not to want to give back to your country in terms of community service (I am not saying you should be in a combat unit if you do not feel inclined, but there are teaching units, social service units, etc.)
So, you're here to lay a guilt trip on him? It was not his choice to end up in Israel. He is not Jewish. It's not his culture or his family's culture. Why should he just automatically embrace all of the Isreali culture? Israel may well have subsidized his family and given them the free education. (Does his family not pay taxes for that education?) That was his parent's choice, not his. Maybe his family owes something that they are not paying for through taxes they pay but this boy has been on a bus he did not pay for and did not want to get on. Does he have an obligation to defend or pay for the bus? NO! If he intends to stay in Israel, he should make his contribution but if not, he has no obligation. That obligation belongs to his family who made the decision and are enjoying the benefits.



Frank
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