changed a circ diaper today - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 50 Old 05-05-2005, 10:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
apmammaof2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 201
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

well, I changed my friends little guy (the one who i couldn't convince not to circ) today for the first time.
He's 9 weeks old and the poor little thing still looked very purple and sore.
I love my friend but it was kinda hard to talk to her for a little while after that. I kept my mouth shut because what's done is done and I already came close to losing her as a friend over this, it just was very hard.
DH is circ'd I guess it's just that now that I have DS and have chosen not to my heart breaks for everyone that is.
Just needed to share
apmammaof2 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 of 50 Old 05-05-2005, 11:47 PM
 
PuppyFluffer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: East Coast, USA
Posts: 9,029
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

My heart breaks for all the circ's boys (and men) too!

I think, for me, if I had educated a friend about circumcision and they did it anyway, I could not continue the friendship.

"To err is human, to forgive, canine." - Unknown
PuppyFluffer is offline  
#3 of 50 Old 05-05-2005, 11:54 PM
A&A
 
A&A's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 16,186
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by PuppyFluffer

My heart breaks for all the circ's boys (and men) too!

I think, for me, if I had educated a friend about circumcision and they did it anyway, I could not continue the friendship.

What do you do when it's a family member? I'm struggling with how to relate to my bro and SIL since their son's circ (after all the info I gave them!)

And I've never changed my nephew's diaper. That would kill me. In fact, I've never even asked to hold him. He's almost a year old.

"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
A&A is offline  
#4 of 50 Old 05-05-2005, 11:59 PM
 
honey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 396
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Ugh, it makes you so sad, doesn't it? A few years ago I was babysitting a little guy for a neighbor, and his circ had been botched. He only had a button left, literally. It was heartbreaking.
honey is offline  
#5 of 50 Old 05-06-2005, 12:28 AM
 
~Megan~'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oregon
Posts: 15,114
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I babysat a friend's son and he was 1.5 and his still looked like a wound.

Mom of a 7 yr old, 4 yr old, and 1 yr old. Wow. How did that happen?
~Megan~ is offline  
#6 of 50 Old 05-06-2005, 12:42 AM - Thread Starter
 
apmammaof2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 201
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
after reading your responses, I realized strangly that I have not asked to hold him before either. The only reason why I changed his diaper is beause his mom was in mid change and her other DC needed her so I took over to finish the job. I don't understand why I havn't wanted to hold him, it's not his fault and I never even thought that could be the reason in fact I never even thought about it period. Strange.
Even so, it is hard to maintain the friendship after her having made the decision to circ. but I value other aspects of our friendship and am taking the good with the bad. The whole situation just makes me pray for a change in societies way of viewing circ.
apmammaof2 is offline  
#7 of 50 Old 05-06-2005, 12:47 AM
 
Paddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Happy ;-)
Posts: 8,137
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i was speaking with the sil about this one afternoon--after i was invited to a briss. we both agreed that for some reason, though both our husband's are circed, the circed baby just looked really funny. she even commented that when she saw one she wanted to pull the foreskin down to cover it, it looked so exposed and vulnerable.

Ange. Mama to boys. Yup. All Boys. All Intact. A bunch of other NFL, crunchy credentials too.
Paddington is offline  
#8 of 50 Old 05-06-2005, 02:39 AM
 
susienjay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: MD
Posts: 580
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I feel the same way. The couple times I've changed circed boys I have been upset for days afterward that I avoid it if I possibly can. It isn't the baby's fault so I try to smile and play with him when I'm doing the change but inside I just feel sick. The last time was last summer and the little boy was almost 3 and it still looked like a wound to me. It just looked so wrong. I just don't get how a parent can do that to their child.

mama to six ('98, '00, '04, '04, '06, '08)
susienjay is offline  
#9 of 50 Old 05-06-2005, 06:41 AM
 
hummingbear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Rocky Mountains
Posts: 1,009
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
apmammaof2 and A&A and ................. and ..............

hummingbear is offline  
#10 of 50 Old 05-06-2005, 12:14 PM
 
Kathryn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Colorado
Posts: 5,859
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
A lot of times it *is* still a wound when they are 1 year or more. Doctors are doing more loose circs now and the leftover foreskin they are leaving is re-attaching to the glans like it should be. If the parent would leave it alone it would eventually natually seperate (sp?), but they are usually instructed by doctors to forcefully retract at every diaper change and apply neosporin or another ointment like that. The forceful retraction causes bleeding therefore the "wound" look. Sad isn't it?

Mom to Dakota (6), Coy, (4), Max, (4), Lily (4), and Auri (June 19th 2010)!
Visit Lily's site at www.caringbridge.org/visit/lilymathis1
Kathryn is offline  
#11 of 50 Old 05-06-2005, 12:39 PM
 
kiwimutti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 418
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
wow...i didnt know about just haw awefull it is! how bizzare! wow it is just such a strange demented idea to start with. I am just sitting here sort of blown away, i guess i just never thought about it really, I'm looking at my little guy and can not imagine having a piece of him cut off, especially his precious little widdler! *sigh* just another area of absolute nonsense we seem to be in the midst of...I guess im angry now grrrr!
kiwimutti is offline  
#12 of 50 Old 05-06-2005, 12:53 PM
 
Paddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Happy ;-)
Posts: 8,137
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
my nephew is intact but i think his mother did the forced retraction thing. he is 5 months younger than my ds and fully retracts. i remember he was very red and swore for a while. but yeah, she does it with every diaper change... i think she thinks i'm weird cause i barely pay attention to it when i change my ds's diaper... boy:

Ange. Mama to boys. Yup. All Boys. All Intact. A bunch of other NFL, crunchy credentials too.
Paddington is offline  
#13 of 50 Old 05-06-2005, 12:58 PM
 
Kathryn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Colorado
Posts: 5,859
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by acp
my nephew is intact but i think his mother did the forced retraction thing. he is 5 months younger than my ds and fully retracts. i remember he was very red and swore for a while. but yeah, she does it with every diaper change... i think she thinks i'm weird cause i barely pay attention to it when i change my ds's diaper... boy:
Have you pointed out to her that she is scaring him for life? She can cause some major problems if she continues this. *Most* men that have gotten infections and problems later in life and get circumcised is because they were forcibly retracted as infants. Ask Feebee or Frank for more info on this.

Mom to Dakota (6), Coy, (4), Max, (4), Lily (4), and Auri (June 19th 2010)!
Visit Lily's site at www.caringbridge.org/visit/lilymathis1
Kathryn is offline  
#14 of 50 Old 05-06-2005, 01:13 PM
 
Paddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Happy ;-)
Posts: 8,137
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathryn
Have you pointed out to her that she is scaring him for life? She can cause some major problems if she continues this. *Most* men that have gotten infections and problems later in life and get circumcised is because they were forcibly retracted as infants. Ask Feebee or Frank for more info on this.
i don't think she realized that she did it. i think when it initially happened, it was an accident. now, i think she feels he is full retracted and so she is making sure "to keep it clean". i'll mention it to her though....

Ange. Mama to boys. Yup. All Boys. All Intact. A bunch of other NFL, crunchy credentials too.
Paddington is offline  
#15 of 50 Old 05-06-2005, 06:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
apmammaof2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 201
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Poor little guy. It's a great thing she decided not to circ, it's just too bad she didn't learn how to take care of it. I too NEVER even touch the little thing unless he's had a poopy diaper or something, sorry tmi.
My mom asked me the other day why I don't even wipe it off with wipes at changings (she didn't agree with us not circ'ing), and I just told her I didn't see a need to clean it unless it's dirty!
apmammaof2 is offline  
#16 of 50 Old 05-06-2005, 07:38 PM
 
Paddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Happy ;-)
Posts: 8,137
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
apmammaof2,

i'm a minimal wipe user myself, so i understand. and it has worked so far: no full blown diaper rashes to date!

my nephew's mom actually taped the penn and teller thing for me and she was very happy she didn't circ, i'll be sure to find some more info for her though about leaving it alone....

Ange. Mama to boys. Yup. All Boys. All Intact. A bunch of other NFL, crunchy credentials too.
Paddington is offline  
#17 of 50 Old 05-06-2005, 08:21 PM
A&A
 
A&A's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 16,186
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathryn
A lot of times it *is* still a wound when they are 1 year or more. Doctors are doing more loose circs now and the leftover foreskin they are leaving is re-attaching to the glans like it should be. If the parent would leave it alone it would eventually natually seperate (sp?), but they are usually instructed by doctors to forcefully retract at every diaper change and apply neosporin or another ointment like that. The forceful retraction causes bleeding therefore the "wound" look. Sad isn't it?

Is THAT why my nephew STILL screams at every diaper change? I've never had the heart to ask.

"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
A&A is offline  
#18 of 50 Old 05-06-2005, 09:43 PM
 
Kathryn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Colorado
Posts: 5,859
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by A&A
Is THAT why my nephew STILL screams at every diaper change? I've never had the heart to ask.
Most likely. Doctors tell the mothers that if they don't retract it the skin will be adhered forever and will "look funny" (as if it doesn't already?). They tell them the only reason the baby is crying is because it feels like brush burn under the remains of the foreskin. They tell them if they don't retract what's left they will get infections and UTI's and on and on and on...

Mom to Dakota (6), Coy, (4), Max, (4), Lily (4), and Auri (June 19th 2010)!
Visit Lily's site at www.caringbridge.org/visit/lilymathis1
Kathryn is offline  
#19 of 50 Old 05-06-2005, 10:31 PM
 
feebeeglee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 2,689
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by acp
apmammaof2,

i'm a minimal wipe user myself, so i understand. and it has worked so far: no full blown diaper rashes to date!

my nephew's mom actually taped the penn and teller thing for me and she was very happy she didn't circ, i'll be sure to find some more info for her though about leaving it alone....
http://www.cirp.org/pages/parents/peron1/ is superb in that regard.
feebeeglee is offline  
#20 of 50 Old 05-06-2005, 11:40 PM
 
PJsmomma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,013
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I am new to this discussion but I'm reading here lately to learn should I ever birth another son.

I read this thread yesterday and wanted to say something and did not--however, it bothered me all day so I want to understand.

1. How does this make you lose friends?

2. Why does it make you not want to hold the innocent baby?

I don't understand that at all.
We don't vaccinate our son--I've poured tons of time and passed out info to educate my friends and all of them have chosen to vaccinate--I seriously disagree with them but I wouldn't allow it to ruin my friendship.

I just need help understanding--because my little boy was circ--I didn't hear of this side of the story until right before he was born--I didn't have time or resources to make any sort of decision. I would be so sad to think that someone wouldn't have wanted to hold my precious baby because of my decision.

I am not arguing--I am 100% really trying to understand.
Thank you
PJsmomma is offline  
#21 of 50 Old 05-06-2005, 11:49 PM
 
Kathryn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Colorado
Posts: 5,859
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by PJsmomma
1. How does this make you lose friends?

2. Why does it make you not want to hold the innocent baby?
Thank you
It makes me lose friends when I have presented them with all the info and they still circ. They would then know that there is no reason to do it, but they still do. I cannot be friends with someone that would do that to a child when they know there is no reason to.

And

That's just a way of showing your hurt and pain you feel for the baby. It's just a way of coping. If you're not holding the baby you don't have to think how he went through something so awful, you don't have to want to send him thoughts that tell him you're so sorry for him. At least that's why I do it. It's not something I do by choice, it's something I do subconsiously (sp?) without realizing I'm doing it.

Mom to Dakota (6), Coy, (4), Max, (4), Lily (4), and Auri (June 19th 2010)!
Visit Lily's site at www.caringbridge.org/visit/lilymathis1
Kathryn is offline  
#22 of 50 Old 05-06-2005, 11:52 PM
 
Kathryn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Colorado
Posts: 5,859
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
BTW, Welcome to MDC and I hope you learn a lot from this board and use what you learn.

Mom to Dakota (6), Coy, (4), Max, (4), Lily (4), and Auri (June 19th 2010)!
Visit Lily's site at www.caringbridge.org/visit/lilymathis1
Kathryn is offline  
#23 of 50 Old 05-07-2005, 12:10 AM
 
PJsmomma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,013
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks I'm only new to this board I've been at MDC for 2 yrs (I think)

I do know what you're saying about presenting the info and how it's not necessary--I've done with the same with vaxxes and it makes me very sad when I know they do it anyway, but I still don't understand cutting off friendships. I have friends of all religions/political persuasions/totally non Ap or natural parents.

I think sometimes those of us who parent this way have to get ourselves a little more out there so we have a chance to share the info --keep sharing the info--show good representations of our lifestyle and ideas. Show how wonderful our children are
For example in our case--I wouldn't have minded having someone who didn't circ to talk to when I was pg. I wasn't leaning in the least toward more natural parenting--the vax issue just smacked me upside the head kwim? Sometimes, just having a person who appears to be "normal" who has a different viewpoint and is willing to share it can make a BIG difference.
PJsmomma is offline  
#24 of 50 Old 05-07-2005, 01:11 AM
 
Acksiom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 317
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by PJsmomma
I read this thread yesterday and wanted to say something and did not--however, it bothered me all day so I want to understand.

1. How does this make you lose friends?
I hope this will help explain -- the best, closest comparison we can currently make for little girls to what the consequences are for little boys of routine and ritual prepucectomy is:

the amputation of their clitoral hoods,

the amputation of their inner labia,

the stripping out of an approximately inch-wide circumferential ring of their frontmost inner vaginal skin, and

the clamping together of the two resulting raw edges of tissue with thousands of pounds of pressure so that they randomly 'seal' to each other.

I know I would have a very hard time associating with people who had that done to their infant daughter, and particularly so if I had previously showed them how and why it was wrong, and they had done it anyways, and still didn't regret it. And the same thing goes for those who had it done to their infant son, etc.

For some of us this is simply monstrous child abuse and completely, totally, and utterly unacceptable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PJsmomma
2. Why does it make you not want to hold the innocent baby?
In my case it would not be not wanting to hold the baby so much as not wanting to give the parents any kind of further help or assistance in their lives whatsoever. To me that would effectively be condoning their abuse of their child, and also completely, totally, and utterly unacceptable. And it's kind of hard to be sociable with people for whom you refuse to do anything.
Acksiom is offline  
#25 of 50 Old 05-07-2005, 01:13 AM
 
Kathryn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Colorado
Posts: 5,859
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by PJsmomma
Thanks I'm only new to this board I've been at MDC for 2 yrs (I think)

I do know what you're saying about presenting the info and how it's not necessary--I've done with the same with vaxxes and it makes me very sad when I know they do it anyway, but I still don't understand cutting off friendships. I have friends of all religions/political persuasions/totally non Ap or natural parents.

I think sometimes those of us who parent this way have to get ourselves a little more out there so we have a chance to share the info --keep sharing the info--show good representations of our lifestyle and ideas. Show how wonderful our children are
For example in our case--I wouldn't have minded having someone who didn't circ to talk to when I was pg. I wasn't leaning in the least toward more natural parenting--the vax issue just smacked me upside the head kwim? Sometimes, just having a person who appears to be "normal" who has a different viewpoint and is willing to share it can make a BIG difference.
The difference between vaxing and circing though is you are preforming plastic surgery without consent on a minor without pain relief with circing, you're not with vaxing. I can not be friends with someone who knew there was no reason to circ and it caused harm in the short and long term, who knew of the sexual pleasure it took away, who knew the life long horrible effects of it, and still did it just because "they like it like that". There is no way I could ever be friends with someone who would do that. I would never befriend someone who abused their children and circing is abuse, plain and simple. My life is not long enough to waste it on people who I have a hard time being around because they do things to their children I could never dream of doing.
Sorry if that sounds harsh.

Mom to Dakota (6), Coy, (4), Max, (4), Lily (4), and Auri (June 19th 2010)!
Visit Lily's site at www.caringbridge.org/visit/lilymathis1
Kathryn is offline  
#26 of 50 Old 05-07-2005, 01:19 AM
 
Quirky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Princeton, NJ
Posts: 11,770
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
As with Kathryn, for me it's not the parents who didn't know any better, but the ones who did and circ anyway despite being educated about it that make me so : I want to cut off all contact. Sadly although we tried really hard to save my nephew (born at 35 weeks, 5 pounds, circed anyway at day 4!!!) my BIL and SIL circed for no better reason than to look like daddy.

I would feel the same way if I were friends with someone who wanted to circumcise her dd to look like Mommy, say if she were from an African culture where female circ is the norm.

Or about someone who beat her child. In my mind, it's all child abuse. Yes, sometimes parents just don't know any better or know another way, because that's what they were raised with and the frickin' doctors don't fulfill their professional responsibility to tell them that circ is not only unnecessary but very harmful. But when they DO learn and go ahead with the child abuse anyway....well.

About not holding the child....I can understand that too. It's not necessarily logical or rational, but having tried so hard to protect my nephew from his parents' willful intent to do him harm, I didn't want to hold him because I felt I had failed him. I couldn't find the right words or the right way to show his parents what a precious treasure they were bringing in the world, a baby who deserved only loving touches, not painful torture, in his first days of life. I felt, and feel, guilty, and therefore detached, from my nephew.

Circumcision hurts all of us that way. It damages relationships and attachments as well as boys' bodies.

ETA: cross-posted w/Kathryn and Acksiom! Total coincidence.

Come visit the NEW QuirkyBaby website -- earn QB Bucks rewards points for purchases, reviews, referrals, and more! Free US shipping on great brands of baby slings and carriers and FREE BabyLegs or babywearing mirror on orders of $100+. Take the QB Quiz for personalized advice!

Quirky is offline  
#27 of 50 Old 05-07-2005, 01:26 AM
 
StormingColour's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Guelph Ontario Canada
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
New to this forum. Hi all!

I agree that circ is child abuse. I am the proud mother of 2 boys (intact) from a long line of intact men. My partner is not intact but it was important for him to not subject his own children to horrors of circ.

I too would have a hard time maintaining a friendship or even being civil to someone who was informed and still chose to circ their boys. On the other hand, if they didn't know and were pressured (as some docs do) then I wouldn't be as judgemental. I would still try to educate them for their potential future children.
StormingColour is offline  
#28 of 50 Old 05-07-2005, 01:55 AM
 
Paddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Happy ;-)
Posts: 8,137
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by feebeeglee

thank you! i sent it off to her. i'll let you know if it helps at all....

Ange. Mama to boys. Yup. All Boys. All Intact. A bunch of other NFL, crunchy credentials too.
Paddington is offline  
#29 of 50 Old 05-07-2005, 12:48 PM
 
kiwimutti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 418
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i just wanted to say hi all too...i'm new to this forum...

it makes me feel so much for those here who are clearly heartfelt about it too... ..dont know if i can stay around though at the moment...just makes me ...

as with the whole birth crazyness...i just find it totally AMAZING....that someone like me can educate themsalves...and understand...and im not even a collage grad...and a SMART DR who is ment to be interested in their field of work...can carry on doing ignorant things everyday! what on earth is going on...is there a place here at mothering for people who just find it alll absolutly rediculas...too outragously stupid to really be still going on as we speak?...sorry..i just dont get it!
kiwimutti is offline  
#30 of 50 Old 05-07-2005, 06:41 PM
A&A
 
A&A's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 16,186
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quirky

About not holding the child....I can understand that too. It's not necessarily logical or rational, but having tried so hard to protect my nephew from his parents' willful intent to do him harm, I didn't want to hold him because I felt I had failed him. I couldn't find the right words or the right way to show his parents what a precious treasure they were bringing in the world, a baby who deserved only loving touches, not painful torture, in his first days of life. I felt, and feel, guilty, and therefore detached, from my nephew.
:



It's genital mutilation. People who didn't know better, well, they didn't know better and I can't hold that against them. But, my brother for instance, should have known better because I gave him a ton of information. He just didn't want to listen. So, if he didn't listen to me about the most important thing I EVER needed to tell him, well, what does that say about our relationship? Not much.

"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
A&A is offline  
Reply

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off