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-   The Case Against Circumcision (http://www.mothering.com/forum/44-case-against-circumcision/)
-   -   Think I will rile any feathers, I hope so!! (http://www.mothering.com/forum/44-case-against-circumcision/318404-think-i-will-rile-any-feathers-i-hope-so.html)

txgal 07-23-2005 06:19 PM

I posted this on a mainstream board where someone asked for opinion on whether to circ. or not. Thankfully there are a few others who responded with similar answers.


First of all good for you for doing the research, let me first say that my son is not circ'd so you will know right off the bat where I am coming from. I am sure I will manage to offend someone here before this is over (not my intent, this is just a heated topic) so far the reasons given to circ have been.

1.Dh wanted it done so I left it up to him

What about the child’s right to decide. The AAP says there is no real medical reason to do it. As a PP said your child can always make the decision to have it done later but you can not get it back.

2.Afraid child would be teased in school

Here is a link to the most current statistic on circ in the U.S. as you can see the numbers are declining. Chances are good that by the time out children are in the locker room it will be a non issue. If by chance my son were ever teased, I will be sure to let him know that the others parents choose to cut off part of their child penis and how lucky he is that we didn’t.

Rates
http://www.cirp.org/library/statistics/bollinger2001/ (American)
http://www.cirp.org/library/statistics/USA/ (American)
http://www.courtchallenge.com/refs/rate1m.html (Canadian)

3.Like the look better

I had never seen an uncircumcised penis in real life before Ds was born. I wondered if it would seem strange to me in some way. I will say without a doubt that it has never even crossed my mind since. Except to think “Oh my gosh I can’t believe I was ever worried about that” Now I can’t imagine Ds without his foreskin and when I see babies who are circ’d I think they look strange.

4.Want to look like daddy

This is one of the strangest reasons to me. I mean if dad lost his arm in an accident would you chop off your child’s arm to look more like dad? People will say “well you need your arm, but not your foreskin” What about a finger tip, or a toe? Both things would be much more noticeable than the penis and yet to most of us the idea of cutting those off for no reason is crazy. But people use that argument time and again.

5.Avoiding infection/cancer

This is the reason that in my opinion is used to scare people into circumcising. The truth is the rate of UTI in uncircumcised males is slightly higher. But again is this enough reason to permanently alter your child, on the off chance they may get a Urinary Tract infection. I assure you; the chance that a daughter will get breast cancer is exponentially higher, why not perform a double mastectomy to avoid that possibility? The other thing to consider is that babies are circ’d and then put in a diaper where the open wound is then exposed to urine and fecal matter on a regular basis, talk about prime conditions for infection.
Penile cancer is extremely rare, less than 1% in circ’d male so even if the risk doubled or tripled for uncirc’d the risk is still minuscule.

I encourage you to continue researching, check out www.mothering.com , there is an excellent discussion forum there “The Case Against Circumcision “ http://www.mothering.com/discussions...splay.php?f=44 While it is certainly biased the people there are well informed and can point in the direction of scientific evidence etc… When making the decision try to look at things logically, does the reason really make sense, does it hold water? And remember it is not a decision that you have to make just after birth, wait awhile if you are unsure. Then if you still decide to go ahead with it at least your baby will be given some pain relief. Just because a baby doesn’t remember something was painful doesn’t make it okay to do. That is like saying child abuse to an infant is okay because they won’t remember it anyway.


Lydia

Frankly Speaking 07-23-2005 10:52 PM

The risk of penile cancer is no more than .0001% and that should fall even more now that there is a vaccine for HPV, the cause of most penile cancers and cervical cancers.




Frank

Sherra 07-24-2005 01:04 AM

I like how you laid it out...with the common myths/arguments. The one thing that turned me around along with what you wrote, is when someone described what they do during circumsizing. I was under the ignorant impression it was just a little ring that went on causing no pain and the excess just "fell off" like the bellybutton. I would have been HORRIFIED if I had a boy and they strapped him to a board and did what I saw written. I'd have started to scream to make them let him go. Good lord..the guilt would have never left me I don't think. But that image is very common among people who do not know anyway.


Sherra

txgal 07-24-2005 02:00 AM

Oh even better Frank, I knew it was really low but didn't have the exact stats in front of me.


I really hope she comes here and gets more info from all you smart people, you have certainly kept me informed.

Kim22 07-25-2005 03:13 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherra
I was under the ignorant impression it was just a little ring that went on causing no pain and the excess just "fell off" like the bellybutton.
I thought the same thing a few years back!

AntoninBeGonin 07-25-2005 03:43 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim22
I thought the same thing a few years back!
Me, too! Man, the way circ is made to sound is that boys are born with excess skin that makes it impossible for them to pee around (gee, guess I never wondered how they went in utero--dumb me!) and it was necessary to take a pair of scissors(!) and do a quick snip to the tip. That is seriously what I thought until I started researching. Lemme say I am soooo glad we looked into this before our little bambino bello was born.

~Nay

SuperWoman 07-25-2005 09:02 PM

I too was misinformed before finding Mothering. I always thought, "Oh sure, I'll get my boy circ'd" but not knowing what was involved. I stumbled across this forum after dd was born (thankfully she was a girl, or I'd have been in that thread of Mom's regretting circing) and was intrigued. I read more about it and actually went to one of the sites that had a video of one being performed. It didn't actually show anything except a long shot of the boy being strapped down and then I heard the screams. I had to turn away and started crying. Now I'm the person that can handle blood and guts, but this really bothered me. I decided then and there that I'd never put a child of mine throught that unnecessary pain. I now have the daunting task of convincing my circ'd husband of the same whenever we get pregnant with a boy. I'm still not informed as I'd like to be, but your post Lydia will surely help me.

So on Thursday at work, I got into this discussion with others since one co-worker's niece just had her 2 week old circ'd and I stated that it was unnecessary. A guy walked by (know-it-all type) as I said this and had to put his two cents in. He said he wasn't going to have his son ridiculed in gym class in Jr. High so he had it done. I said something about he wouldn't have if he was there when they performed it, and he said he was and that his son would never remember it. The guy went on to say his 40 or 50 year old friend has had a bunch of infections because he wasn't circ'd. I said then there is an underlying reason, not just the foreskin. Then a friend walked by and said she's "seen" both and the circ'd one looked better. I said there is actually a function to the foreskin during lovemaking in keeping the female lubricated. She made a joke about not having a problem with that and it was the end of the conversation.

How do you all handle talking to people who are pro-circ, but have those unfounded reasons? Also, where can I learn more about anti-circ reasons so I can have ammunition in any later conversations and the comments I'm POSITIVE I'll get from ALL my family???

Thanks

Frankly Speaking 07-26-2005 01:19 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperWoman
Also, where can I learn more about anti-circ reasons so I can have ammunition in any later conversations and the comments I'm POSITIVE I'll get from ALL my family???

Thanks
A good place to start is at the sticky at the top of the forum titled "Web Resources" and then you can follow links from there. Eventually, you're going to end up at www.cirp.org which is a searchable database of circumcision research and writings. Most everything is there or connected through links.

To thoroughly research this issue, you've got hundreds of hours ahead of you. There's actually that much information out there.



Frank

njeb 07-26-2005 10:06 AM

Melissa: first, I would inform your dh. Then I would worry about the rest of your family. If you and you dh are on the same page, then you can present a united front to the relatives.

I second Frank's suggestion. It's an excellent resource.

I know how you feel about talking with pro-circ. people. I myself am terrible at debating IRL; all the facts I need to present my case mysteriously vanish from my head the minute I'm challenged! : :LOL That's why I stick to the Internet.

To txgal: I like your post! I think it's very effective.


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