A mother told me a horrendous story yesterday...*UPDATE* - Mothering Forums

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Old 08-29-2005, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
 
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A mom was leaving my friend's restaurant. He asked her how her baby was. She said, "Fine, except for that little problem. " I said innocently, "Oh, what's wrong?"

She proceeded to tell me her baby boy had a messed up circumcision. Turns out it wasn't actually BOTCHED, they didn't take off enough foreskin and "he doesn't even look circumcised!" (Oh, the horror, how assanine.) So now the foreskin keeps adhering to the head and she takes him in weekly to have it forcibly separated and retracted : : : She said her son was at home right now passed out after screaming hysterically for three hours straight because he had just been to the ped. to have it done.

Not only that, but she's having him RECIRCUMCISED. I began to tell her that my son's intact and that it's becoming the norm. She said, "I know, but my husband needs our son to look like him... plus, he's Jewish, so he'll need to fit in later. I don't really have a say."

I told her about how the penis was trying to re-heal itself and that forcibly separating the glans and foreskin could lead to numerous complications. That it should just re-adhere and it would retract naturally when it was ready. I also mentioned that if they insisted or re-circumcising, it didn't matter what the penis looked like right now, anyway!!!!! :

How this sexual mutilation is allowed to continue is beyond me. I am so disgusted by this ignorant woman I couldn't even look at her at the end.
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Old 08-29-2005, 12:32 PM
 
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poor baby! That sounds awful and really traumatizing.
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Old 08-29-2005, 12:38 PM
 
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Man, I am feeling for that poor, poor little baby! I am trying to find compassion in my heart for everyone. How sad it is for the baby and the momma---she must be in some kind of deep denial to allow her son to be put through that. She obviously REALLY FEELS that she doesn't have a say (she is powerless), therefore, she is allowing the torture of her own child. It reminds me to put my energy not towards the horror, but towards the empowerment of all humans everywhere, and towards sexual mutilation becoming a rare occurence. You did a good thing by trying to educate without losing it on her. I'm sure you planted seeds that will grow and blossom when she is ready to face the truth.
I know it is hard, but if we want the world to be peaceful, we have to remember that everyone is in their perfect process and it is all unfolding according the Universal Will. Judging others is not supporting the evolution of the human species. The best we can do is to educate and be involved in creating awareness and raising consciousness, and that's what you did. Good going!
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Old 08-29-2005, 12:53 PM
 
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Oh, poor baby!! I know, my boys are circ'd (dumb mistake, I really regret it) because daddy wanted them to look like him....well, what a shock, they don't completely remove the foreskin anymore, so they *still* don't look like him. You think they're only doing it partially now so that the circ'd boys won't feel so different when they're in the minority?
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Old 08-29-2005, 01:08 PM
 
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If they had a bris then they don't need to do anymore to fulfill the Jewish commandments (and Jews can choose to do an alternate ceremony for the bris without the cutting).

That is just too sad- unfair too that the pedi is suggesting those methods as alternatives.

That poor baby.

Jessica

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Old 08-29-2005, 01:40 PM
 
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man that makes me want to throw up. I have had to stay away from this board because reading stuff like this makes me sick. Why do people do this to their children?!?
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Old 08-29-2005, 04:07 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilsishomemade
You think they're only doing it partially now so that the circ'd boys won't feel so different when they're in the minority?
No, my understanding is that some doctors have realized that taking off every bit of foreskin results in really tight, uncomfortable or even painful erections for men. So a few wonderful, compassionate doctors who care *so much* (smell the sarcasm!) are doing "loose" circumcisions, to avoid this problem later in life. Her baby might have been one of the luckier circumcised boys, if they weren't torturing him and giving him more complications on a weekly basis.

Unfortunately parents don't like the look of the loose circs. They think it looks like not enough was cut off, and often want to have it redone. They don't realize that the boy will grow into that skin they think is "extra". And if he's lucky won't have a tight erection problem later.

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Old 08-29-2005, 05:27 PM
 
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Stories like this are becoming very common. First, it's the OB/GYN that does the loose circumcision but never sees the result a few months later. Then the pediatrician steps in and thinks that all circumcised boys should have a fully exposed glans plus is totally unaware of what is happening with the healing process and that just as with an intact boy, the remnant foreskin will eventually detach. In all of this ignorance and malpractice, everyone is clueless and the baby is tortured again. I have even heard of third circumcisions and we once had a mother here whose son's penis was denuded in one of these second circumcisions and the skin from his hip was being taken to graft back onto his penis. Not only would he have an awful looking penis, he will also have a horrible scar on his hip for the rest of his life and an explanation to his lovers in the future as to why his penis looks so odd and why he has this awful scar on his hip. How can it get worse?

Well, it can . . . On another board some time back, there was a woman who had a twice circumcised son and was going to have him circumcised again. How pathetic!




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Old 08-29-2005, 05:33 PM
 
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Can someone please stop her?? That child is being traumatized. My son was circumcised, please no flames, and it was a very loose one. I would never think to have it redone or to do any of this stuff. If I had known then what I know now, I would not have had it done at all.

I think circumcision is completely unneccessary. Should I ever have another boy, I would not do this. I am Jewish, so this could be a big deal.
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Old 08-29-2005, 07:00 PM
 
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mirlee, i respect and admire you for that.

~*Kristi*~
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Old 08-29-2005, 08:03 PM
 
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Oh, Frank, that's so awful! With my second son, his circ had problems healing. You know, I just never questioned it, until that. And, yes, there is a little sign left of the problem (a little scar), and I feel awful for doing that to him. It will probably not be real noticeable when he gets older, but still. If this next child is a boy, I'm definitely not allowing that to happen again.
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Old 08-30-2005, 11:23 AM - Thread Starter
 
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ishtarmaia, I absolutely agree with you. The fact that she and her husband are totally uneducated on the subject is, unfortunately, very common, and I don't think they're causing their son all that pain and trauma *on purpose*, at least not that they can see.

They didn't have a bris, the circ. was done in the hospital, which has no religious significance at all. I think she and her husband were concerned that if he grew up where they are living now, he'd be mocked and ashamed of being intact.

Mirlee, it sounds like she was listening to what I had to say. I told her to google "circumcision" and do some research, because all the medical and research lit. confirms that forcible retraction causes complications and unnecessary trauma. I told her most docs don't know that you need to care for a circ.d penis whose foreskin has re-adhered like an intact penis, which means LEAVE IT ALONE!
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Old 08-31-2005, 10:55 AM
 
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I am glad she was listening. Hopefully this whole practice will be stopped and the intact penis will be the norm.
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Old 08-31-2005, 11:55 AM
 
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UGH..Poor little fellow.I only wish more people would get edcuated...
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Old 09-02-2005, 01:50 AM
 
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I feel ill.
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Old 09-02-2005, 02:36 AM
 
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Why why why why WHY can't they just leave their son's penis alone?!? Not just this family, but everybody?

I used to work with a man who was born in Korea in 1962. (Korean mother, American father.) He wasn't circumcised at birth because, he said, they "just didn't do that." His Dad decided to move the family to the U.S, and two more boys were born. (Both circumcised at birth, of course. America in the sixties.) When he was 8 years old, his parents decided that it was important that he look like his younger brothers, so they had him circumcised - at 8 YEARS OLD!
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Old 09-02-2005, 02:49 AM
 
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Frenchie, that is common in Korea. Korea picked up the practice in the early 50's from American G.I.s posted there during the Korean War but they don't do it at birth but usually during the teen years. It's just an aberation of our practice. However, it is usually the young man that is fully on board with it. It's heavily promoted and they are pretty much pushed into it but most of them that can get their head together and think clearly above the social pressure can say "no."

All things considered, it is their decision but in reality, it really isn't either. They are just sheep that willingly go to the slaughter house.



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Old 09-09-2005, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Alright, remember this story? Well, my friend whose restaurant this happened in IS HAVING THE SAME "PROBLEM"!!!!!!

He had a bris. I casually mentioned the other day that his son didn't look circumcised, in a positive way. He said yeah, he has surgery scheduled for when the baby turns six months old because "it wasn't done right". :

I started to explain how it was actually a GOOD thing, and he said, "NO, no it's not, it was done wrong." I began to explain that LOGICALLY speaking, it was done just fine... and he butted in and said, "Faith does not require logic." : I explained that a bris was a bris and that commandment had already been fulfilled and that surgery has zero to do with his faith. So he started getting very angry, saying, "well, it doesn't matter, because it wasn't done right." I explained my years of working in the pediatric practice and the complications we saw because of tight circ.s, adhesions, etc.

He got very angry and totally shut me down at that point: "Look, it wasn't done right! End of discussion! The skin is stuck to the head of the penis! HE NEEDS TO BE RECIRCUMCISED!"

: : : These quack doctors and urologists need to be sued, fired, or both. For ANYONE to actually BELIEVE this crap and PROMOTE it in this day and age is a complete uneducated sicko and should stay far, far away from vulnerable infants and their parents.
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Old 09-09-2005, 12:54 PM
 
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That sucks, candiland. I am so sorry your friend wouldn't listen to you. Poor, poor baby.

Faith does not require logic... :LOL That just struck me funny.

~*Kristi*~
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Old 09-09-2005, 12:59 PM
 
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Aww Candiland-how frustrating! I hate it when people refuse new information on subjects they are clueless about.....and at their childs expense at that! That precious boy is def. being traumatized to have to go thru these procedures over and over....I just dont get it!
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Old 09-09-2005, 01:08 PM
 
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Money talks.

How much for the circ and then recirc, and then all the problems caused by the recirc?

The doctors and surgeons will be making money out of this for years to come.

I hope that child sues the lot of them when he grows up.
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Old 09-09-2005, 09:22 PM
 
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Something just struck me!

In all of my time here, we have not had a single necessary circumcision yet we have heard of at least a dozen boys that were circumcised the second time. It appears that the myth of "necessary" later circumcisions is far more true for boys already circumcised than for intact boys.



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Old 09-10-2005, 02:40 PM
 
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What an interesting, and VERY TRUE, observation, Frank. Wow!!!

SAHPilot Mama to a 5yoson, a 17 mo old daughter, and wife to .
Worried about your baby's head shape? PM me for craniosynostosis info!
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Old 09-10-2005, 03:20 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilsishomemade
...well, what a shock, they don't completely remove the foreskin anymore, so they *still* don't look like him....
Is this true?

I am embarassed to say that i didnt know anything about this topic before ds arrived. (well i still dont know much) Heck it didnt even occur to me that he would "need" one until about 2 or 3 weeks before he was born. : However, about a week or two after he healed (b/c of course not knowing anything, i just did the norm ) what was left of his foreskin started to come back down over the head. I thought it was weird. My mom said it was normal. I wondered if we got a so-called botched job but didnt bring it up to the ped b/c i didnt want to put him through anything else. I feel pretty guilty about agreeing to the circ w/out having even read about it.

So a normal circ, when healed, does allow the foreskin to come back down? Whats the point of doing one at all?

I brought the whole topic up once to dh for future children, and he was like, yes...any boy we have will be circed...hopefully i can turn him around though.
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Old 09-10-2005, 05:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Doctors are now realizing that the old-school "radical" circumcisions - ya know, the foreskin is totally removed and cannot possibly come down over the head - caused and are causing a variety of complications, including very tight and painful erections as an adult. You never know how much foreskin to take off, so it's a guessing game and you just have to pray you guess right.

So now they're doing looser circumcisions - which sounds like it solves the problem. However, it causes all sorts of OTHER complications. Think of having a big cut on your leg. The body tries to heal itself and reattach the skin to mend the wound. Now imagine if every time your body tried to heal, going to the doctor and having the cut ripped open repeatedly until it forms a permanent scar. That's what's happening now. The foreskin tries to readhere to the head - the body is trying to heal the unnatural wound. This isn't a problem and should be left to separate naturally, just like you'd let an intact penis retract and separate naturally. However, peds. and parents are repeatedly forcibly ripping the foreskin off the head. This causes the infant massive amounts of pain and psychological trauma.

So many schedule surgery a SECOND time to correct the "problem". It's not a problem at all if nature is left to take its course, but many parents and doctors are still totally uneducated on the fact that if the circumcision "fails" and the foreskin reattaches, you just need to leave it alone and let the body do what it needs to do.
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Old 09-10-2005, 06:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LandonsMom

So a normal circ, when healed, does allow the foreskin to come back down? Whats the point of doing one at all?

I brought the whole topic up once to dh for future children, and he was like, yes...any boy we have will be circed...hopefully i can turn him around though.
I'm sure someone else could answer this better. In a baby I think it is normal for the foreskin to try to readhere to the head of the penis. I occasionally babysat a circed boy and as a baby he had a bit that reattached to the head but by the time he was almost 3 he had "grown into the circ" I guess you could say and it looked like a pretty typical circed penis. I would just leave it alone because it will separate and retract in it's own time. My son is intact and his foreskin extends at least 1/2" past the end of his glans. I've still never seen his urethral opening. It seems to be slowly shortening over time.

My twins were premature and while we were in NICU I frequently heard doctors/nurses giving parents circ care instructions on the day of discharge for other baby boys. I heard one of the doctors tell the parents that it may not look like like there was enough taken off but their son would grow into it and he didn't want to remove too much. I'm guessing doctors are aware of some of the problems of removing too much skin (painful erections) so they are now removing less skin.

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Old 09-10-2005, 09:07 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LandonsMom
Whats the point of doing one at all?

I brought the whole topic up once to dh for future children, and he was like, yes...any boy we have will be circed...hopefully i can turn him around though.
The point of this whole forum is that there is no point in circumcising. There's no reason good enough to justify cutting healthy tissue off of baby boys! And now that you know the truth, you can protect your future sons, regardless. Start educating your dh now so there's not even a discussion when you have your next boy.

You might be interested in the stickies at the top of the forum, by mamas who regret circumcising their babies.

~*Kristi*~
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Old 09-11-2005, 12:19 AM
 
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I definatly have some more reading to do, Thanks for the info ladies
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Old 09-12-2005, 11:57 PM
 
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I have a friend who had a similar thing happen - her son had the plastibell circ which often results in a lot of foreskin remaining. She thought it was botched, when really it's a crap shoot with that type of circ (from what little I understand as explained by a ped friend of mine). She considered having it redone ("it should be free - I PAID for a circ and he didn't get it!") but then decided after seeing my son that it wasn't such a bad thing after all.
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Old 09-13-2005, 04:13 PM
 
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Oh Alison, I just snorted soda out my nose. That is Priceless.
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