I need to shout it out...(and I need help to fully convince dh) - Mothering Forums

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Old 09-16-2005, 11:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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NONE OF OUR SUBSEQUENT CHILDREN WILL BE CIRC'D!

there...I feel better!

I feel ashamed of myself for just accepting "popular american culture" as the right thing to do when we made the decision to have our ds circ'd.... I feel sick to my stomach even reading that sentence....and I feel sick to my stomach knowing that my DH and I made a decision out of sheer ignorance and acceptance of...of...well..I don't even know what to call it.."mainstream culture?" ....

I've been avoiding doing research on circ since I first joined the AP world....and a few days ago I finally sucked it up and read about it.... I cried. I sobbed.... and I promised right then and there that we would never circ again in this household.

Now I just have to make sure that DH is solidly standing beside me on this one... Anyone have any ideas on how to educate him WITHOUT bombarding him with TOO much info?


I just can't believe I agreed to have that done to my son.... I try to tell myself that I didn't know better and at the time I was doing what had been drilled into my head as the best thing for him. But I can't get over the fact that ME...one who never follows mainstream ANYTHING just 'cuz they say so, allowed such a thing to happen just 'cuz they say so! It really makes me ill...
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Old 09-17-2005, 01:17 AM
 
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Old 09-17-2005, 02:01 AM
 
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Congratulations to you and for your pain.

It is not your responsibility to convince your dh not to perform unnecessary cosmetic surgery on a newborn. Intact is the default setting. If he wants it done, it's his responsibility to justify it with research that will show it to be beneficial to your son. Rest easy, he won't be able to do that.

If he comes up with anything you have difficulty handling, just bring it here and we'll help you out.



Frank
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Old 09-17-2005, 02:13 AM
 
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we left the hosp with ds still intact

i told dp that if he wanted it done then he had to make all the arrangements etc
i wanted no part of it

ds is almost 3 , still intact

perhaps not the best way to go about it ..........
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Old 09-17-2005, 04:42 AM
 
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Try telling him honestly that you've been reading about it and you just can't and won't do that again, and you hope that he will support you. (And it would probably help some if you started crying during the conversation, men can't handle crying.)

Single mom of 2 boys
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Old 09-17-2005, 10:16 PM
 
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I can relate completely to your post. I could have written the post myself. We circ'd our first son....and me...who questions everything...just went along with the mainstream without giving it a second thought. UGH!!! It wasn't until we had some problems with my son's circumcision that I even started reading about it. I went through several months of guilt and frustration...and can still work up a good cry about it. But what is done is done. There is nothing I can do about it now. We had another boy this past December...and he is intact. I didn't have any problems convincing dh at all. My husband knows how much time I spend reading and researching...he rarely questions me on such matters. He has been so good about comforting me over the whole situation.
I am sure your dh will be fine about it.
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Old 09-18-2005, 02:19 PM
 
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when you know better you do better- dh's mom has cried and apologized to him for circing him (she was never even informed of what it was! they just took him and returned him circed!) and it has really meant a lot to him. I'm so glad you were able to bring yourself to do the research and now you are able to truly make an INFORMED decision. If only Dr.s were required to inform patients about this horrible procedure before they make the mistake of having it done, instead they make it sound like no big deal and just what is done when you have a boy.

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Old 09-18-2005, 07:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benji'sMom
Try telling him honestly that you've been reading about it and you just can't and won't do that again, and you hope that he will support you. (And it would probably help some if you started crying during the conversation, men can't handle crying.)
This is along the same lines I thought at first when I read your message. What if you go to him, sobbing, with a handful of papers, saying, "Why didn't they tell us the truth?! We never would have done this if they had told us the truth!" Make it seem like you assume he would obviously come to the same conclusion as you have, and you can be angry at "other people" together. Worth a shot, right?

R~mama to 3

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Old 09-19-2005, 07:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for all your responses.... I completely forgot about this post and just remembered it *laughs* while I was chopping carrots for dinner :LOL

I've spoken some more with dh about it...(and I did tear up when I described some of the things I had read about the procedure ) and I need help addressing this comment:
"What about J***? He was 15 and had to have a circ. done because he wasn't before and he was having problems. " (his cousin was never circ'd and I'm not sure what the details are about what happened with him, but he ended up needing to be circ'd at 15...)

I did tell him that if it TRULY needed to be done for health reasons when a child is older, then it could be done... but HOW could you allow someone to take your NEWBORN son, strap him down, and mutilate his genitals just "because"????? Let him make his OWN decision if he so chooses...
Anything I'm leaving out? Are there any statistics that relate to the medical need for circumcision later in life for those who have never been circ'd?

The progression of things is amazing... when I first started my research my first thought was that I hoped we'd have a girl next so I wouldn't have to worry about this... and soon enough I realized that it didn't matter... the answer was clear...if we have a boy, they're not going to do it. Period.
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Old 09-19-2005, 07:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YankeeMomInVA
"What about J***? He was 15 and had to have a circ. done because he wasn't before and he was having problems. " (his cousin was never circ'd and I'm not sure what the details are about what happened with him, but he ended up needing to be circ'd at 15...)
First- most "medical" circs in the US are done for bogus reasons. In europe they try everything else first, in the US, they chop first, ask questions later

Second- why don't you remove the appendix and tonsils of every newborn? Lots of people have problems with those (a lot more people than have true foreskin problems, that's for sure...)



-Angela
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Old 09-19-2005, 07:59 PM
 
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There's a lot of information in this thread:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=344129

regarding "infections" and the spurious "need" to circumcise later.

Really, with proper non-care (i.e if it's left alone to develop in its own time), an intact penis is not problematical. No one gets circumcised over here routinely, and there are treatments available which are always tried first for the very occasional problem. Amputation is a last resort, sadly not the case over your side of the water.

Quite apart from that though, just because his cousin had it done late, why would your son need to be done. I really don't get that way of thinking, why amputate a normal healthy part of the body (with all the attendant risks of surgery) before it's done anything wrong? Especially as it has functions and its loss is something to be avoided.
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Old 09-19-2005, 09:38 PM
 
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I've never understood this line of "reasoning" either. You might want to tell your dh that you want to amputate your daughter's breast tissue as well, since there is a one in nine chance she could develop breast cancer later in life.
Actually, only one in 17,000 men will need to be circ'ed for medical reasons. Most "medical" circ's in the U.S. are done for reasons that would be treated with medication, ointment, or stretching exercises in other countries. Circumcision is a last resort there, as opposed to here. The sad truth is that your dh's cousin probably did not need to be circ'ed. The only thing most American doctors learn about the foreskin in medical school is how to cut it off. :
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Old 09-19-2005, 10:39 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alegna
Second- why don't you remove the appendix and tonsils of every newborn? Lots of people have problems with those (a lot more people than have true foreskin problems, that's for sure...)
OOH! YES! That's what I was looking for! :-)

And actually... a friend of mine in the UK.. her son is in tact and he recently had some sort of problem w/his foreskin (I didn't ask for the details) and she told me that she was glad she was in the UK b/c if she was here they'd have wanted to circ him right away...
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Old 09-20-2005, 09:57 AM
 
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Canadian Pediatric Society: www.caringforkids.cps.ca/babies/Circumcision.htm

"Of every 1,000 boys who are circumcised:About 10 babies may need to have the circumcision done again because of a poor result.

Of every 1,000 boys who are not circumcised: 10 will have a circumcision later in life for medical reasons,"


Therefore, just as many intact (Canadian) babies will have to be circumcised (1%), as circumcised babies being 'redone' (1%).
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Old 09-20-2005, 12:25 PM
 
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Canada is still coming up to speed in the proper diagnosis and care of the intact penis. We will see those numbers for later circumcisions drop as doctors are educated. In Sweden, the number is .006% or about 1 in 18,000 with the supposition that many of those could have been avoided with proper diagnosis and treatment. While we will see the incidence of later circumcisions substantially drop, it is unlikely there will be any significant reduction in the number of circumcisions that have to be redone and there will be many that can not be redone and the men will just have to live with the results no matter how bad it is.



Frank
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Old 09-20-2005, 04:59 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankly Speaking
Canada is still coming up to speed in the proper diagnosis and care of the intact penis. We will see those numbers for later circumcisions drop as doctors are educated. In Sweden, the number is .006% or about 1 in 18,000 with the supposition that many of those could have been avoided with proper diagnosis and treatment. While we will see the incidence of later circumcisions substantially drop, it is unlikely there will be any significant reduction in the number of circumcisions that have to be redone and there will be many that can not be redone and the men will just have to live with the results no matter how bad it is.



Frank
ITA Frank(then again, when do I not? :LOL ) I have full confidence that if the doctors would provide accurate care infomation to parents(leave it alone) and educate themselves properly on treating the intact penis(agin in most cases, leave it alone), these numbers would be drastically different.

Take care,
Tara

Tara Momma to Callum and Gavin
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Old 09-21-2005, 01:43 AM
 
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This is probably going to sound extremely strange, but keep an open mind. When Dh and I were prego with DS we started researching Circ. DH is circumcised and although all medical evidence stated there was no reason for circ DH still wasn't convienced. I was talking with a very open friend of mine about this. He is circumcised and said he wished his mother never did it. This stuck with me because DH really didn't care. My friend is gay and has had partners who were intact and circ, so he was able to give the opinion of a partner as well as a man. He was extremely against circ. So I had him talk to DH and thats all it took, our son stayed intact and my DH is very happy about our decision. So maybe if you know someone who is intact and proud or someone who wished they were not circ you could have them speak to your DH, just a thought?!
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Old 09-21-2005, 03:14 PM
 
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yeah, well, the person i know who was circ'd as a teen lost the ability to orgasm, FOREVER. that's not a reason to circ a baby, that's a reason to find another remedy for teen phimosis than amputation! (and the utis he was plagued with continued; i guess telling him to stop drinking a sixpack of pepsi every day was unthinkable. doctors and nutrition, sigh.)

susan
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Old 09-22-2005, 08:09 PM
 
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Lauren, if the best reason your DH can come up with to circ your son is that someone he knows had to have it done, it shouldn't take long to change his mind!

"So, my darling husband, you want to sign our precious baby boy up for an elective operation NOW, just on the off chance that he might possibly need an operation later? I guess I'm not seeing the advantage here. Should we take out his tonsils and appendix while we're at it? Or maybe we should just wait until he actually has a problem before we start cutting out healthy body parts?"

Or, if you don't want to go the sarcastic route, simply assure him that IF your son has any problems with his foreskin when he's older (which isn't very likely), you will pursue non-surgical treatment first, and consider circumcision as a last resort.

Good luck!

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