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#1 of 50 Old 10-20-2005, 09:40 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Ok mamas pleae help me out here. Cases for/against cutting. I do not feel that I have the right to circumsize my child. I feel that it is purely cosmetic and therefore not my right as it is not my penis. I have no one in my support circle including dh who agrees with me. Honestly at this point hoping for a girl so it's not an issue
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#2 of 50 Old 10-20-2005, 09:47 AM
 
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We had the same problem as you when I was pregnant with my son. I didn't want to circumscise him but dh did. There was no convincing him until he found out that he would have to pay for it out of his own pocket because it is not covered by our health care. Luckily too there is only one doctor who will still do circumscisions inour city and he was away when ds was born. So for us in the end it was not even an option. But I really don't have any links to any good info it was just my own feelings. I'll look for you and see what I can find. I do know there is a forum for circs. here.

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...splay.php?f=44

Jessie (29) mom to Emma (2002), Anthony (2004), Elizabeth (2006) and Ava (2008) and someone new 2010
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#3 of 50 Old 10-20-2005, 10:13 AM
 
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#4 of 50 Old 10-20-2005, 10:40 AM
 
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I dont have any links, studeis , research on hand. I just have my emotinal self....*smiles* . We did not circumsize our son and we willl not circumsize any future sons. Its just not an option for us.

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#5 of 50 Old 10-20-2005, 10:52 AM
 
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We circumcise for religious reasons on the 8th day when clotting is at it's best and we're going with a Mohel. Since all they do is circumcisions they really know what they are doing, fast with no clamps or tying down. Was really hard to find one that took non-jewish babies, 6 hour drive.

Alicia + James = Gabriel (9), Uriah (7), Ayla (5), Noah (3), Azriel (1), and due Oct. 2011

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#6 of 50 Old 10-20-2005, 11:25 AM
 
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Ds is intact, and any future sons will be, also. Since I've been changing diapers every day for the last 2 years, I find that ds's penis looks perfectly normal. Any time I get a peak at a circ'd boy (not that I'm looking, but babies do get changed in public!), I find that it looks so SHORN, and well, it makes me a little sad.

I didn't know much about circing when I was pg with ds, but my gut instinct was Why mess with nature? I told dh he had to do the research on this ONE topic. But he was so slow about it that I did some myself first. That completely made me change my mind. From being rather vaguely against it, I was adamant that no son of mine would get cut. Luckily, dh came to the same conclusion. He hadn't really been adamantly pro-circ to begin with, though.

Here is a site with info about the case against circumcision.
http://www.nocirc.org/

You should also check out medical organizations' statements regarding circ. No medical organization in the world recommends routine infant circumcision. I would caution parents against doing an open search on the internet on this topic, however. There are several fetish sites that try to pass themselves off as giving "information" about the benefits of circumcision. Always check your sources. No Circ definitely has its bias, but it's still a bona fide non-profit organization.

I would like to counteract a few common myths about intact boys by giving a few facts.

1)An intact penis is very easy to take care of. All you have to do is leave it alone! You clean it like you would clean a finger. As the boy grows older, he will naturally "play" and eventually the foreskin will retract on its own. This age varies a lot from one child to the next. Once the boy is retracting it, just teach him to rinse under the foreskin with warm water when he bathes or showers. That's one area a boy is NOT going to mind washing! The primary difficulty is dealing with doctors' and others' ignorance. The foreskin should NOT be forcibly retracted to "clean" under it.

2) The rate of circumcision in the U.S. is going down. Nationwide, it's close to 50% circ'd; I think the circ'd population is slightly larger. But, it varies a lot from one region to another. Here in the midwest, the circ'd rate is much higher, so ds is in the minority. But, then a lot of my other parenting decisions--cosleeping, extended bf, not spanking, organic/whole foods diet-- aren't particularly common here, either. I don't make health decisions for my ds based on what's "popular." In Canada, I believe the rate is dropping even faster. Most of the rest of the world does not circ their boys at all.

3)No medical organization in the world recommends routine infant circumcision. The AAP's statement is rather wimpy in comparison to other countries, but they still say there is not enough evidence to recommend it medically. There are a few claims that circing lowers UTI and penal cancer rates and offers some protection against HIV in circ'd boys, and these are often listed as "evidence" that circing is beneficial. However, these claims have not been conclusively proven, and even if are true, the "advantage" is really negligible, especially in an industrialized countries with good hygeine standards. The American cancer society specifically states that there is no evidence that circing helps prevent cancer and that this should not be used as a reason to circ baby boys. Any girl still has a much higher chance of UTI infections over any circumcised boy. These statements come from a very small number of studies. It's interesting to note that counrties (which is most of the world) with comparable cultures that do not circ do not have higher rates of UTIs, cancer, or HIV.

Okay, I'll get off my soapbox now!

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#7 of 50 Old 10-20-2005, 11:29 AM
 
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Oh, one thing I forgot to mention. If you do decide to have a son cric'd, please make sure analgesics are used. A woman I talked to from NO CIRC (they had a booth at a baby expo) said she's talked to doctors who say they use it, but when asked what type, it turns out to be sugar water! Would you get surgery with only sugar water to manage pain?

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#8 of 50 Old 10-20-2005, 11:46 AM
 
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my dh was dead set against no-circ and I was dead set against circ. His biggest reason was that ds wouldn't look like his daddy and I told him that it would be a long time before ds looked like his daddy and by the time he did, I didn't think they were going to be sitting around comparing... My husband then said, well, YOU are going to have to teach him how to clean it then...

so, since we went with a mw for birth, there was no immediate circ. even after birth dh was still adamant about it and so I called the ped. who said we had to call a specialist ped. who then said that they don't even make appts. for circ. before the baby is 6 mos. and we said, are you kidding? and hung up and never discussed it again. for some reason, dh thought it would be better at birth? his cousin who just finished med. school insisted that no analgesic was needed and that babies do not feel pain : .

I would check out the circ forum here for more info. lot's of great info.
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#9 of 50 Old 10-20-2005, 11:49 AM
 
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My DH hasn't argued with me when I've strongly stated that I think it's ridiculous to circ w/o religous reasons. The whole arguement of having the baby look like daddy made him laugh- I mean, if the baby is born with ears that stick out, or doesn't have the cleft in his chin that DH has, are we going to rush baby in to surgery?

I think that the article in this months Mothering is good, I have it marked for DH to read just so that he knows all the facts and can feel confident in our decision- confident enough to explain it to his parents when they change babys diapers for the first time!

We don't even know if it's a girl or a boy yet, but covering all our bases... just in case!
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#10 of 50 Old 10-20-2005, 11:59 AM
 
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Sorry to butt in, but I wanted to tell you that I was on the came situation as you with DH. He still prefers that we circ, but I won because my argument was better!

This is one that we had to agree to disagree on! ( which we all know happens in marraige sometimes )

A great Book What Your Doctor May Not Tell You about Circumcission by Paul M Fleiss MD.

And my point was that to circ is a permenant choice for someone else that I am not willing to make for only cosmetic reasons. If your son wants to cut a part of his body off it should be his choice and he can absolutly make it for himself when he is old enough. When you think about it - it really is just a tradition that has no purpose! I also used the example of what if it was decided that the nipples or the labia were considered un necessary? Should we follow the crowd & cut them off? DH looked at me funny, but then smiled 'cause it was a great point ( plus I think that most men like tose parts on us )

The Circ forum on here is wonderful for info if you are needing more support!!!

Good Luck Mama! Trust those Mother Bear Instincts when it somes to you kids! It is all we have & we need to listen to it!!!!
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#11 of 50 Old 10-20-2005, 12:10 PM
 
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yeah, my dh knew how ridiculous his argument was and couldn't come up with anything better than that. it started to be a running joke, all he would say is "helmet head or anteater" (sorry if anyone finds that offensive, I sure did). I took ds to the zoo after he was born and there was a statue of an anteater, so we now have a picture of our little "anteater" with the anteater.

I didn't come across MDC until after my ds was born. even though I knew I didn't want to circ I wasn't very good at convincing dh until I learned more through the circ forum here.

we don't know if this next one is a boy or girl either, but if it's a boy, definitely no circ again.
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#12 of 50 Old 10-20-2005, 12:11 PM
 
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DS is intact, and if we have another boy, he'll be intact, too. Aside from the logical reason (cutting off a healthy, functioning, useful body part just makes no sense to me), when I looked into the research (and there's a LOT available) it was obvious to me that circumcision is a bad idea. The potential "benefits" are FAR outweighed, IMO, by the risks and the loss incurred. FWIW, Mothering's original article on circ ("The Case Against Circumcision") is what tipped the scale for me and DH. After we both read that, I went scurrying off in search of other evidence from a variety of sources, and it all pointed in the same direction.

Even though a lot of peds think/act otherwise, I think it's really telling that the AAP doesn't recommend routine infant circumcision, and that health plans all over the country are refusing to cover it. These are mainstream organizations, and the risks/costs are apparent to them.

Christine , wife of Ron , mama to Tony (4-25-03) and Maria (3-19-06) :
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#13 of 50 Old 10-20-2005, 12:18 PM
 
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Have your dh watch a video tape of a circumcision. He won't even think about doing it after he sees what happens. Another idea a friend of mine gave me was to say that if it's that important to him he has to contact a doctor, set up the appointment, and take him to it. Explain that you don't want it done until after you leave the hospital. If your husband has to make the appointment and take time out of his day to do it, chances are he won't think it's that important!! Luckily for me all it took was dh reading the last issue of Mothering, so I didn't have to go any further with videos, etc....

Good luck!!
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#14 of 50 Old 10-20-2005, 12:20 PM
 
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I was in sort of the same situation as you before we had dd. Of course, she was a girl, so it became a non-issue! But I was only somewhat informed, and dh not at all (other than knowing he was circed, so why not?) I did have him read a bit and look at some photos. And I made it very clear that if *he* decided to circ our son, he was going to stand right next to him and comfort him throughout the procedure. I'm pretty sure that, alone, would have been enough for dh to choose no circ. This time around, we're planning a homebirth with a midwife and I've done a lot more reading on the subject since dd was born. There is no way I will ever allow an infant boy of mine to be circumsized. That's the decision I came to after researching it, for mostly the same reasons others have given. Dh is now fine with that decision, after doing some reading and listening to me. He says he trusts me since I did the research and he agrees with all my other parenting decisions (for the most part) so he's not going to fight this one.
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#15 of 50 Old 10-20-2005, 01:07 PM
 
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Our oldest ds is cut - we were young and uninformed when he was born - we didn't know we had a choice when it came to circ. Ds #2 is intact and if this baby is a boy, he will be intact too. The fact that my intact son looks different from his big brother and his father isn't an issue at all - he knows that he was spared an unnecessary cosmetic procedure - if he wants to be circumcised when he's an adult, then that will be his choice - not mine. We have no right to cut off healthy body parts from our children. I know I would have been pretty upset with my parents if they had removed something of mine because they didn't like the way it looked. Some people argue that circ reduces the risk of penile cancers - penile cancer is rare to begin with and if that's a good reason to do it, why don't people remove breast tissue in their children to prevent breast cancer? Another reason given is HIV and STDs - I hope my children practice safe sex - not having foreskin is not a replacement for a condom. My son has had no problems and isn't dirty because he has a foreskin. There is no special needs connected with cleaning it - it's like any other part of your body that you wash in the shower. Good luck with dh - I hope you can get him to understand. http://noharmm.org/ is another good website to look at.
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#16 of 50 Old 10-20-2005, 01:10 PM
 
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#17 of 50 Old 10-20-2005, 01:25 PM
 
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I've been hmmming and hawwwing over this issue, too.

I'm against circumcising for one simple reason: I can't see putting such a new babe through so much pain. I know it's a personal choice, and I really don't think boys will care much either way as they get older, but for me I just can't make a baby scream in pain when they're that young. Our little boy-to-be will not be circumcised.

However....ugh. I hate to even talk about this. I have two boys with pretty severe delays, and at 3.5 years they're still in diapers. I have noticed that their foreskins are getting red and a little inflamed more often as they get older (yes, of course, I wash them very well and bathe them regularly). It's not a big deal, nothing that a little protective salve or neosporin won't fix, but it does make me sad to open up a diaper and see what looks to me to be a painful little spot on their foreskin. Part of me wishes (just sometimes) that we had had them circumcised. I dunno. I guess if it ever becomes a real problem we could opt for the surgery when they're older--at least then they'd get real pain relief and anesthesia!

Again, though--I think the decision to circumcise or not becomes SOOOO much clearer when you're holding your newborn a day or two after he's born. Would you really want him strapped down, screaming, and in pain? I think for most moms the answer is no, but I know dads can be crazy-attached to the idea of a "normal" penis.

Here in WI, we're told that the circumcision rate (at least in the city) is about 50%.

s to all of those making the decision--it's tough if you don't have dh's support.

RedOak ~ Momma to DS (8) , DS (4) , DD (3) , & DD 9/10 ~
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#18 of 50 Old 10-20-2005, 05:37 PM
 
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We don't circ over here. DH was a u/c Hb so circ was not an option for him. For him circ was a deal breaker. I was uneducated when pgwith my 1st and never thought about it. Now I've researched a bit more and have decided that on top of usually being purely cosmetic, it violates my moral code. I am very anti-circ, personally. I just try to not step on other's religious choices.
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#19 of 50 Old 10-20-2005, 05:47 PM
 
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I disagree with a poster that it "looks funny." I didn't even notice that my Dp wasn't circ'd until he said something (& I was no angel before I met him ) Fortunately for me (& the babe if it is a boy) Dp would die before he let someone cut his son......now if I could only get him to see my views of not vaxing.....)

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#20 of 50 Old 10-20-2005, 10:58 PM
 
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I was sort of in your situation with dh when I was pg with #1. Luckily she was a girl. Once she was born and the reality of her uniqueness became clearer dh was totally on my side about harming the integrity of another's body.

Ds is intact.

I don't think it was mentioned, but if you like Penn & Teller they have(had?) a show on Showtime called Bulls***. They did an episode on circumcision. If you can find it, it's worth watching--especially for the family/husbands/friends that are in the "of course we'll circ, everyone is" sort of position. It's accessible in a way that some of the other (great) information may not be--maybe because Penn has such a cheeky foul mouth.

Good luck, and go with your mama instinct.
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#21 of 50 Old 10-20-2005, 11:05 PM
 
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Our ds is intact.

Our Bradley teacher said it wasn't necessary and it harms the baby.

On our own we finally came up with this thought: "Who's penis is it?" It's his. By leaving him intact; we have forever left him a choice. If as a grown-up he wants to do it, then it's his choice. Not mine. not hubbie's.
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#22 of 50 Old 10-21-2005, 03:13 AM
 
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My son is cut. I regret it. I did not want to do it, but at the time I didn't think it was that important and my DH wanted it done. I tried to talk him out of it but not as hard as I should have done. I left the decision up to my DH because he's got a penis. I should have protected my baby son instead. It's not something I agonize over every day, but let me say that I am very glad this baby is a girl so we don't have to go through it again.

There is no reason to do it. Plain and simple. Makes no freaking sense.
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#23 of 50 Old 10-21-2005, 03:34 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsAngelic
We circumcise for religious reasons on the 8th day when clotting is at it's best and we're going with a Mohel. Since all they do is circumcisions they really know what they are doing, fast with no clamps or tying down. Was really hard to find one that took non-jewish babies, 6 hour drive.

Pardon the intrusion from an outsider to the thread (as in not-a-March 2006 mamas2be ) but the religious reasons on the 8th day are specifically Jewish reasons. If you're Christian, see this thread for necessary information.




Since nobody else pointed it out, it seemed necessary.

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#24 of 50 Old 10-21-2005, 02:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank You everyone for your support. I agree that it should be the childs choice as it is his penis. We left dd the way she was born and I intend to do the same if we have a son.
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#25 of 50 Old 10-21-2005, 02:44 PM
 
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Luckily, this is not even an issue at my house. My husband is uncircumcised, which was very unusual for our part of the country in the '70s. He was the first uncirc'd man I ever met. As for the people that say it's ugly, I think they are WAY exaggerating things. Yeah, it looks a little unusual at first, but it's NOT ugly! I love his little turtleneck

I have one sister that sort of freaked when I told her that we will not be circumcising if we ever have a boy. She used to be a nursing student, and said she witnessed an operation where a 17-year old had to be circumcised because he got infected. I was like, "well, DH is 30, and it hasn't been an issue for him!" My MIL had a great comeback, when people used to tell her that DH's penis would be harder to keep clean: "What other body parts are we going to start cutting off because we're too lazy to clean them??"

I understand, to a degree, the people who circ for religious reasons. What I really hate is when people do it because 1) they want the baby to look like the father, or 2) for social reasons. My Bradley teacher personally doesn't really want to circ their upcoming child, should it be a boy, but the husband does, so she is making him do all the work concerning it, as in finding the person to do it, taking him there, taking care of it, etc. The man said he wants to circ his son because of "locker room" issues (he was an athlete). I asked my husband what he thought of that (he was never an athlete, but took P.E. classes). He said nobody he knew ever spent time in the locker room looking at other guys' penises, so he didn't get that at all :LOL

The Penn and Teller episode on circumcising was great, BTW!
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#26 of 50 Old 10-21-2005, 06:55 PM
 
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no circing for us. i made that decision at age 20 when i saw my first circ being done to a baby and i had to assist, absolutely heartbreaking, they didn't use anything but sugar water on a binky for pain then (some still don't).

i still hate assisting in circs and don't ask parents if they want one either. if they ask, fine, but i don't bring it up. if they ask my opinion, i tell them. i have changed 2 peoples minds so far that i know of (patients).

my DH isn't circ'd so that was one hurdle i didn't have to argue about.

i think babies are born perfect and there is no way i would allow a son of mine to be circ'd.
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#27 of 50 Old 10-21-2005, 06:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs Dimples
My son is cut. I regret it. I did not want to do it, but at the time I didn't think it was that important and my DH wanted it done. I tried to talk him out of it but not as hard as I should have done. I left the decision up to my DH because he's got a penis. I should have protected my baby son instead. It's not something I agonize over every day, but let me say that I am very glad this baby is a girl so we don't have to go through it again.

There is no reason to do it. Plain and simple. Makes no freaking sense.
s
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#28 of 50 Old 10-22-2005, 11:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merpk
Pardon the intrusion from an outsider to the thread (as in not-a-March 2006 mamas2be ) but the religious reasons on the 8th day are specifically Jewish reasons. If you're Christian, see this thread for necessary information.




Since nobody else pointed it out, it seemed necessary.

hmm... I see you really try to force your beliefs. I am not Christian or Jewish, I am a Nazarene. I saw your link and found it very aggressive. It is great to share your view, but let's try and do it in a non-assaultive manner, not degrading those that don't agree with you. Thank you.

Alicia + James = Gabriel (9), Uriah (7), Ayla (5), Noah (3), Azriel (1), and due Oct. 2011

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#29 of 50 Old 10-23-2005, 10:10 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsAngelic
hmm... I see you really try to force your beliefs. I am not Christian or Jewish, I am a Nazarene. I saw your link and found it very aggressive. It is great to share your view, but let's try and do it in a non-assaultive manner, not degrading those that don't agree with you. Thank you.

Am in awe that you were offended by my post. Sorry. Didn't think it was assaultive or even aggressive. But then again, it's a common stereotype that my people are aggressive, so hey. Thereyago.

And the thread I posted was not my beliefs. I'm not Christian.

Actually, I thought that I was being polite and helpful. If you'd like to PM me and explain how I wasn't or what was insulting or offensive about my post or the link, I'd appreciate the education. For the future, that sort of thing.

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#30 of 50 Old 10-23-2005, 12:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by merpk
Am in awe that you were offended by my post. Sorry. Didn't think it was assaultive or even aggressive. But then again, it's a common stereotype that my people are aggressive, so hey. Thereyago.

And the thread I posted was not my beliefs. I'm not Christian.

Actually, I thought that I was being polite and helpful. If you'd like to PM me and explain how I wasn't or what was insulting or offensive about my post or the link, I'd appreciate the education. For the future, that sort of thing.

Thanks for bringing this up. I know you are only trying to give us more information, not offend us. The more information we have to make our decision with, the better (IMHO).

Jill
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