Wrong baby circumcised! Yes, it DOES happen... - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 106 Old 11-20-2005, 02:19 PM
 
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DH is in here with me now & we're talking about it - he says that he was allowed to go to the nursery in the sence of going to it physically, but having to stay outside & look through the window...then they said to go to the room & the baby would be RIGHT THERE...yeah, an hr. later. Yes, he is agreeing with me and will keep her with him. I certainly hope it goes this way, will talk to med. staff before regardless. I actually hope he doesn't even have to & that she can come to recovery with me.
Thanks!!
~Marie

~Marie : Mom to DS(11), DS(10), DD(8), DD(4), DD(2), & Happily Married to DH 12 yrs.!
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#62 of 106 Old 11-20-2005, 02:26 PM
 
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PS~ Suseyblue, did you coign the term "Gonadical??" LOVE IT!! LOL!!

~Marie : Mom to DS(11), DS(10), DD(8), DD(4), DD(2), & Happily Married to DH 12 yrs.!
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#63 of 106 Old 11-20-2005, 02:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by rmzbm
PS~ Suseyblue, did you coign the term "Gonadical??" LOVE IT!! LOL!!
i guess i did, lol- i always say, "she's got ovaries', but that doesn't work linguistically with 'ballsy'.

mr jillette said i coined 'hard-off', so i guess i'm up for two. :P

susan
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#64 of 106 Old 11-20-2005, 03:19 PM
 
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Ugh- the whole medical system is so messed up in this country (USA) and the medicalization of birth is just rediculous.

I don't understand why they're circ'ing healthy newborn boys in an OB unit to begin with. Those who circ for religious reasons (like me) aren't going to want it done at the hospital anyway, and anybody who really wants it done for cosmetic/stupidity reasons can have it done at the ped's office in a week.

Ruth, single mommy to Leah, 19, Hannah, 18, and Jack, 12
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#65 of 106 Old 11-20-2005, 04:29 PM
 
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I was told that b/c of the catheter, and the surgery, DD was NOT allowed to be in my room alone with me. Only if DH or someone else was there. For the first 4 days of her life, I was not allowed to bond with her alone
this happened to me too. i was told that i couldn't have the baby in my room with me unless there was someone else there. :

i was lucky enough to have enough support to get through it... my best friend babysat my 2 year old overnight so that my husband could sleep in the hospital room with me. during the day, DH would go home to take care of my son while by friend came to stay with me at the hospital during the day. one night, my friend wasn't available to babysit, so my DH brought our 2 year old to sleep in the hospital room too. he was fast asleep by 7pm... but that didn't stop the nurse from coming in and giving me a hard time, telling me my son was disturbing the other patients (he was FAST ASLEEP) and that he had to go home. i told her it was the only way i could keep the newborn with me. she looked at the empty bassinet and said "well, your baby isn't here right now." i lifted up the covers where my newborn was snuggling and nursing, and said OH YES SHE IS. the nurse gave in and left us alone for the rest of the night.

one of the days though, when my husband wasn't there for whatever reason (this was a very brief period of time btw) and they said they needed to do some test... that they would be back in 15 minutes. i said OK, but as 15 minutes came and went, they weren't back so i GOT UP and very gingerly walked to the nursery. my baby was lying there bawling her eyes out while two nurses just sat there LITERALLY with their feet up. i knocked on the glass and said i wanted my baby back. i tried to pick her up, but they told me i couldn't walk with her in my arms, that i had to push her in the bassinet...

UGH!!! and to hear about this poor baby being circ'd by mistake!!! how scary. how infuriating.
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#66 of 106 Old 11-20-2005, 04:32 PM
 
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OMG!!!!!!!! This is horrible!!! I am SO outraged. That poor baby. Oh man I would be freakin if that was my baby.
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#67 of 106 Old 11-20-2005, 04:55 PM
 
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MomiEilis~ Wow. That's unreal. I am sorry you & your baby had to go through that. Just awful.

~Marie : Mom to DS(11), DS(10), DD(8), DD(4), DD(2), & Happily Married to DH 12 yrs.!
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#68 of 106 Old 11-20-2005, 05:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by QueenOfThePride

Wouldn't it be great if hospitals just stopped offering circumcision and parents had to make an appointment for it later on?
Definately!!

Mom of 5 boys- 13, 10, 8, 2 : and newbie Aug. 24th, '09 . babywearing advocate . Cook, baker, homemaker, wife to a man with another woman's kidney (live altruistic, unknown donor).
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#69 of 106 Old 11-20-2005, 05:59 PM
 
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I'm in the middle of reading Complications : a surgeon's notes on an imperfect science by Atul Gawande. It's a fascinating read about the imperfections/mistakes made in medicine. Physicians and surgeons make mistakes all the time and because of the medical culture, must constantly cover their tracks and never admit wrong-doing. Physicians, being human, make an error and someone else has to live with the consequences.

One small change made in medical protocol recently was - immediately before a schedule surgery - to have the MD initial with a pen right onto the body part to be operated on. THat way the patient and staff can confirm it's the correct leg or whatever before going in to surgery. This alone reduced the number of wrong parts being operated on each year.

I don't understand a medical protocol that allows minors to be operated on without the guardians there before, possibly during, and after the surgery. That protocol is severely messed up!
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#70 of 106 Old 11-20-2005, 06:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by rmzbm
Yeah, makes alot'a sence, right?? : I do plan to fight this, but being on another floor, unable to move...they just do what they want anyhow. Just like I KNOW all my kids got formula in the hospital...some nurses seem to do the oppsite of what the parents want for the sake of being right it seems. I am working on DH also & I think he's starting to see the light more and more...he isn't normally one to "rock the boat." I mean it IS his baby, too...he can just take it to the room & I can't see how they could do a damn thing...or so I believe...I am going to bring it all up with my OB at the next appt.
I was told that I couldn't be with my daughter when I was being sewn up. I told them verbally and in writing that I did not give my permission for my baby to ever be out of mine or my Dh's direct supervision. The hospital has no right whatsoever to circumvent your refusal to consent. The hospital cannot legally do anything without your consent. They can pretend and bluff differently, but stand your ground. I did!

After my c-section, my physician and anesthisiologist were so impressed with how smoothly it went having me hold the baby while I was sewn up that they said they were going to look into changing hospital protocol. I'm very proud of that because I think it can help so many families.
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#71 of 106 Old 11-20-2005, 06:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by RubyWild
After my c-section, my physician and anesthisiologist were so impressed with how smoothly it went having me hold the baby while I was sewn up that they said they were going to look into changing hospital protocol. I'm very proud of that because I think it can help so many families.
WTG!! That's awesome!! I couldn't ever hold mine in the OR...or recovery...just in my room. (An hr. later with my boys, then with my daughter I was only in recovery 20 min.) I have heard of moms having the baby in recovery but here it's on another floor & with them it's a "We can't let the baby leave the maternity unit" thing. Though the OR certainly isn't there either...so why not only GO to the MU AFTER when we BOTH can?? I guess cuz it makes too much sence...

~Marie : Mom to DS(11), DS(10), DD(8), DD(4), DD(2), & Happily Married to DH 12 yrs.!
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#72 of 106 Old 11-20-2005, 06:18 PM
 
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Wow, thats horrible. Thank goodness I live in a country where you can't get circ done in hospital after the birth and rooming in is normal. I would freak if this ever happened to my baby.
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#73 of 106 Old 11-20-2005, 06:25 PM
 
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Incedentally, I don't know if you ladies have heard of this case.
In the SAME city as this accidental circumcision was performed (the city I was born in)there was a baby boy in the 70's who had a grossely maimed penis afterward. So much so, that they decided to cut it off and call him a girl. They tried to raise him like a girl, even though he always resisted wearing dresses and playing with dolls.
It became harder and harder for him to live life like a girl.
I think he did eventually decide to live as a boy and even got married.
This poor guy appeared on Oprah 2 or 3 years ago.
He has since commited suicide.

This is the scenario that has made me rethink routine circumcision. DH wants it and keeps telling me I'm not the woman he married (I was very into myself-couldn't leave the house without perfect hair, nails....), and since DD I'm gettieng crunchier by the day after spending time here at MDC
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#74 of 106 Old 11-20-2005, 06:30 PM
 
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Yeah, I did hear about that. There's a website that tells his story.

~Marie : Mom to DS(11), DS(10), DD(8), DD(4), DD(2), & Happily Married to DH 12 yrs.!
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#75 of 106 Old 11-20-2005, 06:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by hunnybumm
Also, with my local hospital the baby is taken to the nursery at every shift change for 2 hours (now it is only 2 times a day, when DS was born it was 3 times a day). I have talked to quite a few woman who have tried to keep their baby with them to no avail. So it isn't always possible to be with your baby 24/7 at every hospital. Sad but true.
Please tell me this is not true? I, for one, would call the police and slap that hospital with a kidnapping charge so fast their collective heads would spin. They have NO right to do that.
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#76 of 106 Old 11-20-2005, 06:53 PM
 
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Unfortunately wrongful circumcision is very common. I am a trial lawyer who concentrates in genital injury litigation. Since 1995 I have been involved either as counsel or as an adivsor in more than 20 cases where a boy was not to be circed but ended up circed anyway. The cases have been all over the place: in Texas, Illinois, Arkansas, Alabama, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Georgia, Virginia, New York, Ontario. I even had one for an adult in Kentucky. In 1995 we obtained a $65,000 verdict for a boy in Alabama. Even though the cases are now worth real money, the defendants fight them like the devil. I recommend marking your son's bassinet "NO CIRCUMCISION" in the hospital. I also recommend getting one of the baby shirts with the NO CIRCUMCISION symbol on it. NOCIRC has them or you can make your own. And be sure to express your wishes in no uncertain terms to both your Obstetrician and Pediatrician well in advance of the birth. Husbands should make sure that their wives are not conned into signing a consent form for circ while under the effects of drugs after the birth. Better safe than sorry.
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#77 of 106 Old 11-20-2005, 07:02 PM
 
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That's actually a really good tip, the no circ shirt!! HOW can they say they didn't know at that point??

~Marie : Mom to DS(11), DS(10), DD(8), DD(4), DD(2), & Happily Married to DH 12 yrs.!
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#78 of 106 Old 11-20-2005, 07:24 PM
 
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Originally Posted by rmzbm
I have heard of moms having the baby in recovery but here it's on another floor & with them it's a "We can't let the baby leave the maternity unit" thing. Though the OR certainly isn't there either...so why not only GO to the MU AFTER when we BOTH can?? I guess cuz it makes too much sence...
Thank you. I was told a lot of things that the hospital could not do. I was told that it was too cold in ER for me to hold my baby (I asked if I was going to be cold. No, then the baby won't be cold on my chest under a blanket.) I was told I might drop her (I said my husband would stand next to me and make sure that didn't happen). I was told the baby couldn't ride on the stretcher with me. (I said that "I do not consent to you taking this baby from my arms.")

I don't expect everyone to want to go toe to toe on this while in such a vulnerable situation, but I'm glad that I refused to accept their B.S. as truth. There are ways around their protocol.
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#79 of 106 Old 11-20-2005, 07:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Maple Leaf Mama
Incedentally, I don't know if you ladies have heard of this case.
In the SAME city as this accidental circumcision was performed (the city I was born in)there was a baby boy in the 70's who had a grossely maimed penis afterward. So much so, that they decided to cut it off and call him a girl. They tried to raise him like a girl, even though he always resisted wearing dresses and playing with dolls.
In that case, though, the parents consented to the circumcision of Bruce (later Brenda and then David). The doctor was using a method called ablatio, where an electrical current was used to cut and cauterize the foreskin. The settings were wrong and the penis was instantly burnt to ashes. As far as I know, that procedure isn't used anymore and hasn't been for decades.

Not that I support circumcision.
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#80 of 106 Old 11-20-2005, 07:30 PM
 
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Dave2GA

Good to see you here. I hope you can help bring our medical practices here in the states to their senses.

I know you have offered to help those who have been wronged.

I would like to ask you if there is anything legal to be done about medical schools which are teaching outdated and potentially harmful information on the care of an intact penis.

It seems that wrongful actions can be stopped more effectively by making sure that the educational institutions are doing the right thing.
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#81 of 106 Old 11-20-2005, 08:17 PM
 
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I agree that we need to get the med schools teaching the correct material. Perhaps the best place to start is with the medical textbook publishers. If everyone with access to a med library would look through the pediatric, general anatomy, obstetric, nursing, urologic, and family practice texts and then write the authors and publishers to correct incorrect information (and believe you me most of the texts are full of incorrect info about the normal penis, the foreskin, progressive retraction, etc.) about the normal penis and circ, then perhaps they would begin to listen. There is power in numbers. In addition each person can educate their own OB and Ped by using the NOCIRC pamphlets. We need everyone doing all they can to promote the truth. Lawsuits are only so effective, because they are not brought that often. Not that one should not sue. On the contrary, suits are necessary to vindicate your child's violated rights. However, other methods can be at least as effective as suits in changing doctor's minds.
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#82 of 106 Old 11-20-2005, 09:18 PM
 
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"Incedentally, I don't know if you ladies have heard of this case.
In the SAME city as this accidental circumcision was performed"


Actually, it was the same hospital. Slightly frightening.

Most of my kids were born there. My one intact son was saved by the nurses. They wouldnt give me the consent form and asked me many thought provoking questions on why we wanted it done. Of course, at the time I was pissed but it planted a seed let me tell ya. Thank you nurses!


FYI, the hospital has stopped all circumcisions while they investigate. I'm hoping it stays that way. The thing thats confusing me though, is that circ's are no longer covered by MB health, so you need to make an appt, pay, and come back later. As far as I understood, they stopped doing them right after birth. I wondered what happened to that policy?
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#83 of 106 Old 11-20-2005, 11:22 PM
 
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The hospital where I had my son no longer performs circ. They haven't in years. I was so paranoid about someone circ'ing my son that I began telling my ob, from about 20 weeks on, that there was no way my son would be circ'd. I later found out that the hospital no longer performed them. If you wanted it done, you had to make an appt. at a clinic to have it done. My son was lucky. I was relieved to find out that the nurses on the mat. floor were all well aware of how to take care of the intact penis. Our family gp knows how to take care of an intact child, the ped. in the hospital was from an intact culture too. My son was lucky.

I feel so badly for that baby. I can't stop thinking of him and his parents. I sent my dh everywhere with our ds when I couldn't get out of bed (c-sect., don't get me started... lol!). I can't imagine how we'd feel, and the amount of unnecessary pain our son would've felt, when we already decided to leave him intact, and he was circ'd anyway.

I'm sorry, I just can't get past how pissed off I'd be that someone did that : . I hope that the hospital stops performing circs all together, and that the parents take the hospital to task for their utter negligence and incompetance.
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#84 of 106 Old 11-21-2005, 01:57 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruthla
Ugh- the whole medical system is so messed up in this country (USA) and the medicalization of birth is just rediculous.

I don't understand why they're circ'ing healthy newborn boys in an OB unit to begin with. Those who circ for religious reasons (like me) aren't going to want it done at the hospital anyway, and anybody who really wants it done for cosmetic/stupidity reasons can have it done at the ped's office in a week.
I totally agree with you. The hospital I had my twins at would even circ preemies as long as they weighed 4 pounds. I know of a couple that were circed over a month before their due date. It seems pretty irresponsible of the hospital to do surgery on a baby so small. One of the little guys I heard the doctor/nurses debating if the baby was actually ready to go home. If he wasn't ready to go home then why was he okay for surgery? He was so tiny I didn't see why his parents couldn't have had it done a week or 2 later. Plus they didn't even stay with him for the surgery. I don't know much about Jewish circ but I do know of one mom who delayed the bris because her son was a preemie.

Since I couldn't stay with my son all the time I put DO NOT CIRC in red sharpie across his chart. It got me some weird looks but at least it me feel better.

mama to six ('98, '00, '04, '04, '06, '08)
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#85 of 106 Old 11-21-2005, 02:52 AM
 
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Remind me never to have a baby in Winnipeg. That hospital should be shut down. First that poor guy whose entire penis they cut off. Then there was the baby they forgot to put the ID bracelet on, and it had to have DNA testing done. Then there was the mother who sued because they gave her the wrong child to breastfeed (she nursed it for an hour). And now they circumcise the wrong boy. Yikes.
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#86 of 106 Old 11-21-2005, 02:54 AM
 
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During my pregnancy I told everyone that I never wanted my baby to leave my sight.
Well of course my all of my plans had to be scrapped. (see sig)
I had to watch my tiny baby endure countless medical procedures. He was constantly being poked with needles and had tubes and wires coming out of him. Then the day I had to leave the hospital without him (he was only 5 days old/ 31 weeks gestation) the OB came in and asked if I wanted to circ... I wanted to puke on the spot!
Yeah, my baby hasn't had enough pain yet, hasn't endured enough hell mabye we should start cutting parts off of him!

Anyway my point is , the 7 weeks DS was in the hospital was the worst time of my life, and one of the worst things about it was wondering WHAT were they doing to him when I wasn't there?
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#87 of 106 Old 11-21-2005, 11:52 AM
 
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((((Crissei)))) Oh, man - I am so sorry. It's like adding insult to injury...gee, we haven't done NEARLY enough, let's rip some skin of the most sensative part of your body for good meansure!! Gross.

~Marie : Mom to DS(11), DS(10), DD(8), DD(4), DD(2), & Happily Married to DH 12 yrs.!
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#88 of 106 Old 11-21-2005, 12:07 PM
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ok I hope I NEVER GET POSTED TO WINNEPEG! *Airforce wife, it is a possibility*

Sure it might be a nice city and all, with it's obvious draw backs, like only two seasons, bitter cold and mosquito. But man, does anyone know if midwifery is covered by the MB medicare because for crying out loud I am NOT gonna birth in that hospital *shudder* if that happens no THANK YOU. I'd go UC before I went there.
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#89 of 106 Old 11-21-2005, 12:48 PM
 
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As a proud winnipeger, I cant help but feel slightly offended......its not the city's fault, its one crappy ob ward at one hospital. As another pp mentioned, they have an amazing research facilitly. St. Bonicafe Hospital has a wonderful NICU; the nurses are kind and caring. Well, I take back the "crappy ob ward", even the ob ward has changed. Theres a hot tub available to labouring women; private labour/delivery rooms with your own personal bathroom; rooming in policy. LC on staff, theres 24 hour breastfeeding hotlines in the city.
The biggest problem is with circ in general. It shouldnt be offered - period.

And like I mentioned before, they stopped doing it at the hospitals b/c MB health no longer covers circ's - you now have to pay out of pocket and make an appt with a ped urologist. This is what we were told when our last ds was born. He was a preemie, and our dr said he'd put on our chart that it had to be done before he was discharged so he could do it and save us the $170 (how thoughtful : ). This is where the nurses came in and refused to give us the consent form. I cant thank them enough for that. (we rethought and left him perfect and intact). Then when my dnephew was born (same hospital) they were told the same thing. Not done here, not medically necessary, heres the # to call. (sadly, wouldnt hear any info and went ahead with it).

Anyway, I'm done defending my city.

And yes, midwives are covered by MB health, our dd was born at home.
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#90 of 106 Old 11-21-2005, 12:55 PM
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Still doesn't excuse the fact that ya'll have only two seasons out there, Farking cold and West Nile

I've had enough Cold and Skeeters to last me forever thanks *Borden ON, second in the mosquito population I swear*

At least ya'll cover midwives. Sure better than going to the hospital and either not making it due to being caught in a snow drift, or getting divebombed by the tons of mosquitoes and arriving as an anemic husk as soon as you walk out the door.

AAAH I'm just joshin ya
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