Two month old NEEDS circumcision because foreskin is too tight? - Mothering Forums
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The Case Against Circumcision > Two month old NEEDS circumcision because foreskin is too tight?
Anglyn's Avatar Anglyn 07:31 PM 02-03-2006
Is this possibly true? My sil is being told this. The family doc they see forcibly retracted (sil said "stretched" I dont know if she retracted or pulled the foreskin sideways maybe?)him and RIPPED the foreskin and told sil she could do this to him everyday instead or circumcise.

HOW do they know its too tight? They asked if he has trouble peeing, the answer is no. It SHOULDNT be able to be retracted yet, so what is making them say this? Two docs so far have said its too tight, circumcise. NOw the whole family, except me and dh, are saying "told you so" to sil and brother.

I told them to hold off until I could research a little cuz the doc who retracted him sounds like a quack to me!

Suggestions, opinions, experiances?? HELP!

KBinSATX's Avatar KBinSATX 07:37 PM 02-03-2006
Poor baby. Stuff like this really scares me. I feel like I will have to protect my baby's privates from the second he is born. Sorry not much advice to offer but it will be interesting to hear what the expert opinions will be. Is it really that difficult to find a medical professional that's capable of taking care of an intact infant?
kidbound's Avatar kidbound 07:42 PM 02-03-2006
: wanting to know what experts say too!
Past_VNE's Avatar Past_VNE 07:45 PM 02-03-2006
The other regulars to this board will be able to help you more, but let me just tell you, without a doubt:

THAT CHILD DOES NOT NEED TO BE CIRCUMCISED!!!!!

It is perfectly normal and expected for the foreskin of a 2 month old to be fused to the head (glans) and for the hole (preputial sphincter) to be tight. If the child can urinate freely, THERE IS NO PROBLEM.

That doctor has no idea what he's talking about. He truly doesn't.

Retraction, especially continued retraction, can cause damage and scar tissue, leading to problems down the road. That little boy's foreskin needs to be left alone to retract on its own time. That may be at 5 months or it may be at 18 years old. Any age is normal. If he should become sexually active and it still doesn't retract, circumcision is STILL NOT REQUIRED. There are simple, non-painful stretching exercises that take about two weeks, which would allow him to have normal retraction.
Lula's Mom's Avatar Lula's Mom 07:49 PM 02-03-2006
Assuming they would consider the American Academy of Pediatrics experts, this page should be helpful:


Summary at the end says:

Care of the uncircumcised boy is quite easy. ``Leave it alone'' is good advice. External washing and rinsing on a daily basis is all that is required. Do not retract the foreskin in an infant, as it is almost always attached to the glans. Forcing the foreskin back may harm the penis, causing pain, bleeding, and possibly adhesions. The natural separation of the foreskin from the glans may take many years. After puberty, the adult male learns to retract the foreskin and cleanse under it on a daily basis.
Yoshua's Avatar Yoshua 08:39 PM 02-03-2006
the forskin is attatched the head by nature/god depending on ur outlook.


it should NEVER be retracted and any pediatrician or dr who attempts this has no idea how to care for an intact boy.

The boy should be the first and only person to ever retract his forskin until he becomes sexually active.

It's not the parents job, and it's not the dr's job.

Retracting the forskin lets that raw sensitive tissue known as the glans/head be exposed to outside elements and germs. It will cause an infection.

Even if it gets infected that infection can still be treated with anti-biotics.






IF THE KID PEES FREELY, AND DOES NOT CRY WHEN HE PEES, THERE IS NOTHING WRONG, AND IF HE IS CRYING WHEN HE PEES IT USUALLY MEANS HE NEEDS ANTI-BIOTICS, NOT COSMETIC SURGERY.


experts commence.....
Daisyuk's Avatar Daisyuk 08:43 PM 02-03-2006
I would print off a few of these and give them to your SIL to give to all those who are saying I told you so. That doctor is woefully ignorant and needs educating, they should make a complaint as he is probably damaging many intact little boys by his terrible advice.

http://www.medem.com/medlb/article_d...DD&sub_cat=108

"What Is Foreskin Retraction?

Sometime during the first several years of your son's life, his foreskin, which covers the head of the penis, will separate from the glans. Some foreskins separate soon after birth or even before birth, but this is rare. When it happens is different for every child. It may take a few weeks, months or years.

After the foreskin separates from the glans, it can be pulled back away from the glans toward the abdomen. This is called foreskin retraction.

Most boys will be able to retract their foreskins by the time they are 5 years old, yet others will not be able to until the teenage years. As a boy becomes more aware of his body, he will most likely discover how to retract his own foreskin. But foreskin retraction should never be forced. Until separation occurs, do not try to pull the foreskin back — especially an infant's. Forcing the foreskin to retract before it is ready may severely harm the penis and cause pain, bleeding and tears in the skin. "
LeosMama's Avatar LeosMama 08:48 PM 02-03-2006
DANGER DANGER DANGER!

When I read the title of your post, I wondered "How do they 'know' it's too tight, did they retract him?" And then I see that yes, they did.
And they damaged him. She shouldn't be circumcising, she should be SUING for malpractice.

Nobody will know if his foreskin is too tight until he's well into his teen years. And at that point there are things to be done that are less harmful and radical than circumcision.

She needs to run from this doctor and report him to the state medical board. He is dangerous.

What the heck does "too tight" mean? Not retractile? It's not supposed to be retractile yet! That it doesn't move side-to-side? What the heck is this doctor doing?

Please have your sister consult doctorsopposingcircumcision.org as soon as possible for a more informed opinion.

-Lindsay
hummingbear's Avatar hummingbear 08:57 PM 02-03-2006
Oh I'm mad.



That pediatrician is WAY out of line. Lula's Mom posted the link to the guidelines set by the AAP for care of the intact penis and this doctor blatantly went against them. With this knowledge I hope she has the courage to blow the whistle.

If the foreskin tore it sounds like this doctor set her son up for some problems down the road............ and the skeptic in me jumps to the conclusion that he is recommending Circimcision to cover their mistake. If he is circumcised they will never know will they?

Can you print out information from NOCIRC and give it to your sister. Here is the link http://www.nocirc.org/publish/
#4 #6 and #7 seem particularly appropriate. Pamphlet #6 is about premature forced retraction. Mostly is says that if you leave it alone then it will probably heal just fine. But in small print somewhere there is a contact number given because nocirc knows that forced premature retraction is wrong and wants to know about any incidences. Quirky also has the name of a lawyer who has offered to be of assistance to those who have been wronged...... if I am not mistaken this is a generous offer of his skills to help others.

I would worry very much that any expert she sees might also recommend circumcision mostly because most "Experts" are also surgeons.......... and experts in knowledge of the foreskin seem to be fewer than hens teeth in this country..........(as well as experts in female genitalia I might add - but that's another story).

I so hope and pray that your sis is not scared into immediate action and can find her peace of mind to become more informed. Eventually I hope that doctor hears an earful.
Devaskyla's Avatar Devaskyla 09:53 PM 02-03-2006
All the other posters gave far more detail, because all I have to say is she needs to RUN away from that quack. (and then file complaints everywhere she can think of) Her poor baby!
njeb's Avatar njeb 10:47 PM 02-03-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devaskyla
All the other posters gave far more detail, because all I have to say is she needs to RUN away from that quack. (and then file complaints everywhere she can think of) Her poor baby!
:

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS BABY!!!!! The foreskin is supposed to be adhered to the glans in an infant. It helps to protect the glans from the urine and feces in a diaper.

On the other hand, there is plenty wrong with that doctor. He knows NOTHING about caring for an intact baby. She should report him before he does any more damage.
lizzie's Avatar lizzie 10:54 PM 02-03-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by KBinSATX
Poor baby. Stuff like this really scares me. I feel like I will have to protect my baby's privates from the second he is born. Sorry not much advice to offer but it will be interesting to hear what the expert opinions will be. Is it really that difficult to find a medical professional that's capable of taking care of an intact infant?

Emphasis mine. BELIEVE IT. You will most likely have to do just that. Read Frank's warning. I very nearly got into a fight with a clueless ped over my son's foreskin!


lizzie
Anglyn's Avatar Anglyn 11:00 PM 02-03-2006
Well, they really dont WANT to circ, but they are now scared that they HAVE to. It was a male pediatrican that initially said it was too tight, so to get a second opinion sil went to her family doc who is female and it was the woman, not even a pediatrican either, who forcibly retracted him. She agreed not to do anything until we can research it further and is coming over sunday to do so. I have tons to show her, I have bookmarked several sites today all backing up my original reacation that the docs are both wrong. Itsjust that with TWO saying it, it makes it seem official or something. AFter talking with her though, she now is going to schedule an apt with another pediatrican. She said after the appointment with the doc who retracted him, she threw up. I imagine so. I cant belive that DOCTORS are doing this. ANd her whole family is telling her told you so because they all thought it should havve been done in the first place. My stepsister also just had a baby and she told our sil that any parent who DOESNT circ is a bad parent. I gave her tons of info about it and she refused to even read it. Butr thats another issue.

Thanks for all the responses, and keep them coming. I will update you after the next doc apt. Im going to go to apconnect and try to find a decent pedi she can take him to!!!
gabysmom617's Avatar gabysmom617 11:46 PM 02-03-2006
AAAAAHHH!!!!



Do the "doctors" know that 2 month old babies are not "supposed" to be retractible!?!?!?

THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL THAT HE SHOULD BE RETRACTING THAT CHILD!

The foreskin is supposed to be fused to the head of the penis for quite some time.

What are his reasons for claiming that circumcision needing to be done? There is no way that they can tell whether or not a foreskin is too tight on an infant this age. Forskin and head of penis are almost as one at such an early age. As long as their is a hole in the tip of the forskin for urine to escape, and baby is peeing freely, there is nothing wrong.

IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE THAT DOCTOR IS PURPOSELY INJURING THAT CHILD'S PENIS BECAUSE HE KNOWS DOING SO WILL CAUSE PROBLEMS THAT HE DEEMS CIRCUMCISION AS "NECESSARY" FOR!!!!! CIRCUMCISION = CHING CHING. $$$$$$$

UGH!!! IT TEES ME OFF!!!

TELL YOU SISTER TO RUN SCREAMING AWAY FROM THAT LOUSY DOCTOR!!

calngavinsmom's Avatar calngavinsmom 12:26 AM 02-04-2006
Another vote here for WRONG! how disgusting that the people who are supposed to care for us are causing us such harm! Here is some more great info for you:
http://www.cirp.org/library/normal/
http://www.mothering.com/articles/ne...uncircson.html

And finally, try to get ahold of these guys to try to find a doc in her area who KNOWS how to care for an intact babe:

http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org/
http://nurses.cirp.org/
http://www.nocirc.org

Good luck!

Tara
Leiahs's Avatar Leiahs 12:43 AM 02-04-2006



Stories like this just make me want to do something awful and wipe the slate clean of all incompetent medical "professionals".

So write me down for one more WHOLEHEARTED vote for THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH HIM, and RUN RUN RUN away from that doctor!!!!!

I also second the advice to contact Doctors Opposing Circumcision. I know they will be a HUGE help, especially if the poor baby's parents feel like the voices of two idiot doctors mean that they are right and you are wrong.

All my prayers and good vibes going out for this poor little baby - I hope he will be saved, and all the other poor little babies who see these docs!!
Frankly Speaking's Avatar Frankly Speaking 03:06 AM 02-04-2006
Quack Quack Quack Quack Quack Quack Quack Quack Quack Quack Quack Quack Quack Quack Quack Quack Quack Quack Quack Quack Quack Quack Quack Quack Quack Quack Quack Quack Quack Quack Quack Quack



Frank
A&A's Avatar A&A 12:57 PM 02-04-2006
Send your SIL here to us!!!!!!!!!!
Mavournin's Avatar Mavournin 01:17 PM 02-04-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anglyn
My stepsister also just had a baby and she told our sil that any parent who DOESNT circ is a bad parent.
Then I am proudly a bad parent.


Your SIL needs to ignore those doctors. Have her print off copies of NOCIRC pamphlets. I made my pediatrician put it in my son's file and gave her a personal copy after she forcibly retracted his foreskin at 2 mos. I'll have you know she's never even touched his penis again. (Nor should she be.)
hummingbear's Avatar hummingbear 02:54 PM 02-04-2006
check out this thread for support

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=353865

"The attorney for Doctors Opposing Circumcision, John Geisheker, will send a letter to the doctor/nurse/hospital pro bono (free) on your behalf telling them what they did was wrong and the consequences. It isn't a letter stating you'll sue but it is fully referenced and ought to get their attention."
hummingbear's Avatar hummingbear 02:55 PM 02-04-2006
check out this thread for support

If your son was retracted by a doc/nurse, TAKE ACTION!
http://www.mothering.com/discussion...ad.php?t=353865

"The attorney for Doctors Opposing Circumcision, John Geisheker, will send a letter to the doctor/nurse/hospital pro bono (free) on your behalf telling them what they did was wrong and the consequences. It isn't a letter stating you'll sue but it is fully referenced and ought to get their attention."

PS Thank you Quirky
Kathryn's Avatar Kathryn 03:00 PM 02-04-2006
Can you go with her to the next doctors appointment at the new doctor?
A&A's Avatar A&A 10:25 PM 02-04-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavournin
Then I am proudly a bad parent.


:
Anglyn's Avatar Anglyn 12:25 PM 02-05-2006
I will go with her if she wants/needs me too. Im confidant that after I give her all the good info I've found, she wont circ. My brother has been against it even WITH the docs saying to do it. I even found pics that show what a normal intact baby looks like for refrence. And Im going to get the docs name and address so we can get that letter sent. To her ped too, though he wasnt the one who retracted, he sure was the one who started it by saying the foreskin was too tight and needed circing.

I guess Im lucky, my ped and his nurse practitioner whom we mostly see have NEVER done or said anything like that!
aira's Avatar aira 11:47 AM 02-06-2006
If it makes her/them feel better, I could easily find 100 docs who would recommend medical circ for any infant. I wouldn't even have to try that hard. And newer doctors are not any more up-to-date on current recommendations than older ones.

Most doctors have no clue about penile care!!!!

The fact that two separate MDs seemed in agreement is really no sign of it being true. Many of us here have had to forcibly stop doctors from harming our sons. It's really quite common, and your SIL should be aware of that so that she doesn't have to worry that "they must be right".

Please pass along our experiences as well. Check out the sticky about those of us whose sons were retracted before we could stop it. It's a sad read, but you will see that I'm telling the truth about the medical folks...
polarbear's Avatar polarbear 12:03 PM 02-06-2006
I would suggest you print off the original version of the following links, and bring several copies with you. It is hard for a physician to argue with REAL position statements from National medical authorities. It may be easy for them to dismiss ‘biased’ internet sources regardless of how valid the information is.


American Academy of Pediatrics - Care for the Uncircumcised Penis: http://www.medem.com/search/article_..._typ=NAV_SERCH

“Sometime during the first several years of your son's life, his foreskin, which covers the head of the penis, will separate from the glans. Some foreskins separate soon after birth or even before birth, but this is rare. When it happens is different for every child. It may take a few weeks, months or years. … Most boys will be able to retract their foreskins by the time they are 5 years old, yet others will not be able to until the teenage years. As a boy becomes more aware of his body, he will most likely discover how to retract his own foreskin. But foreskin retraction should never be forced. Until separation occurs, do not try to pull the foreskin back — especially an infant's. Forcing the foreskin to retract before it is ready may severely harm the penis and cause pain, bleeding and tears in the skin.”


Canadian Pediatric Society:
http://www.caringforkids.cps.ca/babies/Circumcision.htm

“The foreskin covers the shaft and head (glans) of a boy’s penis. During the early years of a boy’s life, the foreskin separates from the glans. This is a natural process that occurs over time. You do not need to do anything to make it happen. … Keep your baby’s penis clean by gently washing the area during his bath. Do not try to pull back the foreskin. Usually, it is not fully retractable until a boy is 3 to 5 years old, or even until after puberty. Never force it.”


The Royal Australasian College of Physicians (Former Australian College of Paediatrics): http://www.racp.edu.au/hpu/paed/circ...on/anatomy.htm

“It is normal for the inner surface of the foreskin to be fused to the glans in newborn males. Separation of the foreskin from the glans occurs spontaneously during childhood. By five years of age most of boys are able to retract their foreskin. A small percentage of boys are unable to fully retract their foreskin until puberty. The foreskin requires no special care during infancy. It should be left alone. Attempts to forcibly retract it are painful, often injure the foreskin, and can lead to scarring and phimosis.”


Common denominator: May not retract till teen years. Do not retract. No problem.
pdx.mothernurture's Avatar pdx.mothernurture 04:12 PM 02-06-2006
CIRP: Normal develpment of the Prepuce: Birth through age 18:
http://www.cirp.org/library/normal/

The Development of the Retractile Foreskin in the Child and Adolescent:
http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi...0-2005-dan.pdf
hummingbear's Avatar hummingbear 12:10 PM 02-07-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunflower_mommy
The Development of the Retractile Foreskin in the Child and Adolescent:
http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi...0-2005-dan.pdf
GREAT! Especially since I have heard about doctors who say statements about not retractiong are intended for parents and not doctors.

I cannot open the link as written but if I go to doctorsopposingciucumcision.org and then click on the publications / leaflets option I find a link to the PDF download.
p1gg1e's Avatar p1gg1e 05:13 PM 02-08-2006

Anglyn's Avatar Anglyn 06:47 PM 02-09-2006
Sil was suppose to come over sunday to see what Id found for her on the subject. She couldnt make it and said she'd come one day this week. Today I called and said come today!! I took off work, I have time, come on. She said they have scheduled an apt. for the circumcision TOMMOROW!! I said, why,what happened? (last time we spoke she didnt want it done). She said, well, if he has to have it done, Id rather do it now than at eight or nine, it wont hurt as much now. I said, first, why would it hurt less now? It will hurt the same whenver its done, so theres no rush. Two, why do you think he'll have to have it done later? She said because two docs said he needed it and that eventually he'll have trouble peeing because of it. I explained about the foreskin being fused to the glans as NORMAL from now until after three or even after puberty and that most docs dont know jack about it because circ is SO common, that they are clueless about a NORMAL penis. Also told her about the glands in the foreskin that excrete stuff that helps it selfclean/kill bacteria etc. My brother still doesnt want it done but is deffering to her.

They are going to look at a house they may buy tonight at five and she said they might stop by after all to look at what Ive found. She already said they wont do tommorow if they do it the "old fashion way" at that hospital. Sigh.
I really hope she comes by and I really hope they listen. I went to APconnect and found a couple of local docs who know whats what when it comes to intactness, now I just have to call and see if they take medicaid.

Oh sheesh. Maybe I should call my brother? I dont want sil to think Im doing the divide and conquer thing, but really thats just what Im doing because poor baby cant defend himself.
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