the "locker room" and other reason to Circ. - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 55 Old 02-17-2003, 01:30 AM - Thread Starter
Banned
 
sha_lyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 895
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My almost 14 DS is noncirc. and I just wanted to point out that he has never suffered some of the "reason's to circ." that are thrown at parents. I just read many threads here and instead of posting this answer to each one, I thought it would be wiser to post it as a separate topic.


He was in a private preschool for a yr, public school for 7 and has played many sports over the years. Not once has his foreskin been a subject of conversation in the bathroom or locker room

We are pretty open around our home (having one bathroom helps that LOL) and DS never (even when little) commented on his looking different than his dad's

He doe not have an odor

He has never had an infection

At his 13 yr check up the new Ped commented on his good hygine "down there"


BTW.... DS knows I talk about this and it is ok with him. He thinks circ. is horrible and mean (I never told him my feelings about it until after he expressed his feelings) and he is glad that my talking about it might help to keep circ. from happenening.
sha_lyn is offline  
#2 of 55 Old 02-17-2003, 02:03 AM
 
hahamommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Exactly where I need to be
Posts: 1,151
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks for posting your son's experience, sha_lyn This is very reassuring to moms who may have this concern ~ and your son is exactly at the age in which we wonder if this will be an issue. I've often thought about asking my own 15 year old cousin about his experiences in the locker room, but would hate to embarrass him ~ so I ask my 21 year old cousin instead :LOL He too, never, never suffered consequence to his ego, self-esteem, nor friendships because of his foreskin (his dad AND two older brothers are circ'd).
Just a suggestion about your vocabulary, you should say your son is *intact* instead of *not circ'd* because this term implies he *missed* something ~ just my opinion, of course, but I want to turn the tide, one phrase at a time

~diana

~diana google me: hahamommy. Unschooling Supermama to Hayden :Super Cool Girlfriend to Scotty . Former wife to Mitch & former mama to Hannahbear
hahamommy is offline  
#3 of 55 Old 02-17-2003, 02:26 AM
 
menudo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: S to the J
Posts: 3,797
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
When I was in HS I do remember one thing. For a week, the girls kept discussing a certain boy who was uncut. They were quite intrigued and amazed by it. They were eager to see it. Not what we want for our young sons, but it didn't sound like a negative, although he sparked curiosity...lol
menudo is offline  
#4 of 55 Old 02-17-2003, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
Banned
 
sha_lyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 895
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
hahamommy... I see what your saying about the words, but I guess to me it is more like saying uncut vs cut but less crudely. I do see though how "un" tends to have a negative effect, such as the misinformation that intact=unclean.


I wanted to add too that the only adult circ. I know of was on my grandfather when he has surgery for prostate cancer. The reason given was that it would be easier on the nurses when caring for his catheter. I was about 20 at the time and pregnant with DS. I was horrified that the Dr would suggest Circ. a 71 yr man just to make it easy on a couple of nurses.
sha_lyn is offline  
#5 of 55 Old 02-17-2003, 04:32 PM
 
Frankly Speaking's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: North Atlanta
Posts: 5,162
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
There is a man in New Jersey that has a case going right now for something similar.

This man is in his late 50's and had gone into the hospital for abdominal surgery. While he was in the operating room, he was also circumcised. The doctor had not discussed this with him and when he woke, he was very upset. The doctor told him it had to be done so he could be catherterized.

Of course, that was bull! Millions of intact men have been catheterized with no problem. You just stick it into the urethra the required distance and tape it to the outside of the penile shaft. There is also an external male catheter that is similar to a condom with a tube and does not require entering the urethra. It is simply slipped on and taped around the base.

The lawsuit hasn't gotten to court yet but it will be interesting to see how it turns out.



Frank
Frankly Speaking is offline  
#6 of 55 Old 02-17-2003, 04:40 PM
 
BreJean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 71
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Well, the other point too is that so many boys these days aren't be circ-ed. So, when boy babies today are in high school 15 years from now, I think it will be a total non-issue.

I have heard that not being circ-ed makes for better sex later on in life LOL!
BreJean is offline  
#7 of 55 Old 02-17-2003, 05:43 PM
 
gurumama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,828
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Oh my God, Frank, that's so horrible!

I've read that if my son who is intact ever needs any sort of procedure/surgery to write on the chart DO NOT CIRCUMCISE in large letters and get a copy, to prevent this sort of thing from happening. I've even told DH that if I die or am out of town and DS needs surgery, to remember this!

That poor man! I hope he wins and wins BIG.

Mel
gurumama is offline  
#8 of 55 Old 02-18-2003, 01:14 AM
 
Frankly Speaking's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: North Atlanta
Posts: 5,162
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yeah, Mel. I first heard about that one about two years ago and still haven't figured out if the doctor was some kind of pervert or monumentally stupid.


Frank
Frankly Speaking is offline  
#9 of 55 Old 02-18-2003, 02:40 AM
 
Christy1980's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Michigan Corn Field
Posts: 5,301
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I remember hearing about a man who went in for open heart surgery and came out circ'd....b/c of complications, they couldn't do the open heart, so they closed him up. The man was obviously scared to death of going back for more surgery for fear of waking up missing something else. I think in his lawsuit, he only won court costs and lawyer fees...meaning that yes, he had been violated, but that his foreskin was not worth anything!!


Now, if my boyfriend is reading this thread, just stop NOW!!! You know who you are!!!!!!!


As for the high school teasing, when i was in school, (not soooo long ago c/o 98), i dated a somoan (chumaran? from guam) intact guy, (my 1st, uh, "encounter" ever), and i thought it was cool and was curious about uh, "it" and what "it" was like, uh, ya know, "in motion"..... He was a jerk..."put out or get out" kinda guy, but at 15y/o, you think you're in love....:

ANYWAY~~~all my girl friends wanted to know what it was like, and how it was, and all that, and being my 1st experience, i had nothing to compare to.....but i told them it was really cool, and really big, kinda scary, but not like gross scary, like nervous scary....They wanted to know if it was gross or ugly, and i told them no, to which they all went, (intregued) "oooh...." and anyway, he ended up being really popular with the girls once they all started talking...: so he dumped me for some hot cheerleader type girl, and so on...then he moved back to guam....

Then i dated a long list of circ'd guys who were also jerks, but also had tiny weenies with ugly scars on them. If i had a tiny weenie, i'd be a jerk too.

Quote:
Just a suggestion about your vocabulary, you should say your son is *intact* instead of *not circ'd* because this term implies he *missed* something ~ just my opinion, of course, but I want to turn the tide, one phrase at a time
how about instead of saying "circumcised," we say "un-intact" or "non-intact"!!!! That definately implies that the un-intact guy IS missing something!!!

PS--sorry my posts have been so long lately I get that way sometimes.... sorry

~Christy crochetsmilie.gif, mom to DD Sage (12-2003) joy.gif and DS Isaac (04-2012)  babyboy.gif, wife to Josh geek.gif.

Christy1980 is offline  
#10 of 55 Old 02-19-2003, 03:30 AM
 
Sustainer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: upstate NY
Posts: 10,709
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by Christy1980
If i had a tiny weenie, i'd be a jerk too.
I just want you to know I have tears streaming down my face because I am laughing so hard at this!

ROTFLMAO

Omigosh...okay...I'm okay now.

: )

What I originally wanted to say is that my partner is intact and he has never had any kind of a problem from it in the locker room or any where else. He has told me that if anyone in this forum ever has any questions he'll be happy to answer them.

-Alice, SAHM to dd (2001) and ds (2004) each of whom was a homebirth.jpg, who each self-weaned at 4.5 years bfolderchild.gif, who both fambedsingle2.gif'd, who were bothcd.gif, and both: novaxnocirc.gif.   Also, gd.gif, and goorganic.jpg!

Sustainer is offline  
#11 of 55 Old 02-19-2003, 05:49 PM
 
Evergreen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Where all the women are strong
Posts: 5,387
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
None of the men in my family are circ'd and when I saw this thread I called my 20 yo brother and asked him about the locker room thing. Im sure he loved discussing this info. with me, but he said that there was always atleast 1 other intact guy in there and nobody wanted the label of pervert or gay from looking at other guy's penises so nothing was ever said about it! These days I know of very few little boys who are circ'd (but my friends are all "hippies") so I think it will be 50-50 in our sons' future locker rooms and not weird to see an intack penis at all!

Evergreen- Loving my girls Dylan dust.gifage8, Ava energy.gifage 4 and baby Georgia baby.gif (6/3/11).

Evergreen is offline  
#12 of 55 Old 02-24-2003, 01:38 AM
 
Christy1980's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Michigan Corn Field
Posts: 5,301
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
what was funny about the "locker room" teasing was that other guy friends who caught a glimpse of the chumaran guy's wang noticed the size and not the foreskin. (he was about 11 inches erect so i don't exactly know what that equates to when flaccid...I never say it flaccid! ) Of course, they thought that was all because he was from guam, like being born on an island in the pacific somehow made his penis larger than a penis grown in the U.S.????:

duh!

sidenote: the clitoris IS kinda like a tiny weenie, and I'm not a jerk! :LOL so i guess i was wrong!

~Christy crochetsmilie.gif, mom to DD Sage (12-2003) joy.gif and DS Isaac (04-2012)  babyboy.gif, wife to Josh geek.gif.

Christy1980 is offline  
#13 of 55 Old 04-25-2003, 11:51 PM
 
applejuice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: hunting the wild aebelskiever
Posts: 18,701
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
My Father was not circ'd and when he was in the hospital for prostate cancer, it was not an issue. The nurses were used to it. I guess here in LALA land there are lots of different people.

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
applejuice is offline  
#14 of 55 Old 05-04-2003, 04:36 PM
 
elelvee's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: U.S. Midwest
Posts: 460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
>>"...look like the other boys in the locker room."<<


*Why were the other boys circumcised?


The "locker room" statement and the "look like his father" equate to "do it because someone else did."



A change of subject:
People's response to a normal penis (if they are not used to it) is something on the order of "redundant," "excess".
When people react to an exception to other body-deformation fads, the basic idea is exactly the same.
Pearl S Buck's narrator in "The Good Earth," about to marry a peasant woman, feels disgust that she has "big feet". Notice, "big." They're the same size as his.
There was a tribe whose people knocked out their front teeth. They laughed at neighbors who had -- "big teeth". They "looked like zebras."
elelvee is offline  
#15 of 55 Old 05-20-2003, 06:24 PM
 
Millie Ivy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: TX
Posts: 3,569
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
T
Applejuice, I love your "location"! HP rocks!

Shelley, mom to dd 5/19/01, ds 9/06/02, and ds 4/01/07.  Lost babe 4/09

belly.gifDue 12/18/12!

Millie Ivy is offline  
#16 of 55 Old 05-21-2003, 01:29 PM
 
cottonwood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,366
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The reason for circumcising I often hear is "because it looks better." Like the penis is such a thing of beauty to begin with! Well... okay. I guess I can't argue against subjective definitions of beauty, and I do, ahem, think my partner has a rather nice one. But personally I think a circ'd penis looks uncomfortably, embarrassingly naked, and I have seen some really awful looking ones -- I don't know if they were scarred from the surgery (probably) or what, but IMO a protective covering would have been a visual improvement...
cottonwood is offline  
#17 of 55 Old 05-23-2003, 04:29 AM
 
Xenogenesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Jamaica me happy.
Posts: 1,991
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Totally Off Topic - applejuice - I see you've hit one thousand posts !! Congratulations !! Par-tey !!

Xenogenesis is offline  
#18 of 55 Old 06-03-2003, 04:10 AM
 
bxingirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: southern california
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have two son's, both intact. 14 and 2 years old. My 14 year old has not had any problems. Actually, the other day he came home and said that his friend is intact too. Yes, I was wondering how in the heck he knew that! He said that his friend told him. My feeling is that almost half of the boys are intact these days. Does anyone know for sure? The reason I came back to this topic is because I am trying to get some facts to tell my son's
science/sex- ed teacher. She said that most boy's are circ'd and there is less chance of getting infection. That pissed me off! I know it did not make my son feel good. She didn't say anything to support the intact males. So if anyone has anything I can intelligently shoot at her, I'd appreciate it! Keep up the sense of humor. You all are FUNNY!
bxingirl is offline  
#19 of 55 Old 06-03-2003, 09:27 AM
 
Frankly Speaking's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: North Atlanta
Posts: 5,162
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The average percentage of circumcised newborns west of the Rockies 5 years ago was 38% so when your son was born, it was probably about 50/50. The rate all over the country is dropping rapidly and the west coast states are at the leading edge. Since it has already dropped below 50% there is little momentum left in the circumcision trend there and peer influence among parents will drive the drop in the future. As physicians become more familiar with the intact penis, more and more will actively recommend against circumcision or refuse to perform the procedure altogether. They are getting the support from the parents they need to make it possible.

I don't know if there is a "quick retort" that can get the message across. There are so many myths and so much false information that you just can't "do a quickie." I would print out some information and approach her with it. Let her read and digest it and then make yourself available for questions. I would also give her links to several discussion boards. Almost all of them are populated by very knowledgeable people that can handle any question.




Frank
Frankly Speaking is offline  
#20 of 55 Old 06-03-2003, 09:31 AM
 
Frankly Speaking's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: North Atlanta
Posts: 5,162
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'll also add from personal experience that educators can be very resistant to education. How strange!



Frank
Frankly Speaking is offline  
#21 of 55 Old 06-03-2003, 10:47 AM
 
Sarah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,134
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You could write to her and tell her that she needs an update on the demographic she is addressing, that many boys are intact, and when she makes comments about circumcision being done to prevent infections, she looks like a moron (can you say that?)- she is spreading a myth to justify circumcision, when infact there is no justification and a large portion of her classroom does not need their circumcision justified for them- because they are intact.

If she would like to do a service to all the boys (and girls) in her class, perhaps she could discuss Meatal Stenosis, Phimosis and Adhesions in a non-judgemental way. Boys only know their own penis, and some have a problem without even knowing it because they have no comparison.


Peeing Problems:

Meatal Stenosis is a narrowing of the pee-hole opening and it ONLY happens to circumcised boys. If they have difficulty peening straight, if it is a thin stream, or if it is really hard to pee- it's possible that he has it. it affects 9-10% of circumcised boys. It is corrected with a outpatient surgery that cuts the opening wider.

Adhesion Problems:

Circumcised and Intact boys can have adhesions, many of these can be relieved with application of some medicated ointment, if that does not work, there are surgical ways to relieve the adhesions. If the adhesion involves the scar line of a circumcision- it might be impossible to relieve without surgery. Some men suffer for many years from adhesions pulling painfully and also being difficult to clean- it is a common enough occurance and there is no shame in goin to a specialist to get assistance in having them seperated. Adhesions are never a reason to be circumcised, and no one should be coreced into a circumcision because of an adhesion.

Sometime intact boys mistake their frenulum for an adhesion- they think that a part of their foreskin is stuck on the underside of their penis. Boys should be instructed that this anatomy has a name, the frenulum or frenum, and that it has a purpose both errogenous and mechanical.

Tightness Problems:

Phimosis means that the tip of the foreskin is tight and the foreskin does not pull behind the glans when erect. Because there are so many stories about people who had to be circumcised because of phimosis, I am sure that there are many people who have phimosis who are afraid to see a doctor about it because they are sure that circumcision is the only thing that will help them- and not wanting to get circumcised- they just try to live with it. There are many treatments for phimosis now that did not exist in the past. About 95% of men with phimosis can have the tightness relieved without having a circumcision- most of them just with some ointment! Boys should be reassured that if they do have a problem with a tight foreskin that they can go to a doctor who understands they do not want to be circumcised, and explore some of the conservative treatments. Circumcision should never be considered lightly as it will change his own sexual feeling, function and the nature of his glans, it will also change the way his partner experiences intercourse. A large portion of people circumcised as adults, even ones who has problem foreskins, are NOT HAPPY about the way that circumcision changed their body.


Some boys are circumcised very tightly, when a baby is circumcised his penis is very tiny and circumcision removes 30- 50% of the skin of the penis. It is impossible for a doctor to know how much skin a boy will need by the time his penis is full sized. Sometimes circumcised men have painfully tight erections. Sometimes the pubic hair is pulled up onto the penis shaft. Sometimes the penis is pulled or bent by the tight skin. If a circumcised boy is experiencing any of these problems, he should understand that this is not just the way that his penis is, but it is the result of losing a large portion of his penis skin (what would amount to 15 sq inches on average) as an infant. These boys should be told that it is possible to file a lawsuit for damages. they should also be made aware of the techniques for foreskin restoration which will help him to stretch his remaining skin so that he can have an erection without pain.

I think that by simply addressing the various problems that some of the boys in the class may be dealing with without anyone's knowledge, she can help them, as well as teach valueable information about the risks of circumcision and the value of genital integrity.

I also recomend the book by David Gollaher for her to read.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...65026532/all/r
ef=dp_bb_a/104-8659881-0282337

Love Sarah
Sarah is offline  
#22 of 55 Old 06-03-2003, 07:00 PM
 
bxingirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: southern california
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thank you Frank and Sarah for replying so quickly! I had wanted to run over to the school and give the teacher a piece of my mind. I'm still pissed but I am glad that I waited. I will print out some of this information and give it to her. Hopefully she doesn't have a problem with being educated!

Take care!
bxingirl is offline  
#23 of 55 Old 06-03-2003, 10:59 PM
 
Xenogenesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Jamaica me happy.
Posts: 1,991
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Xenogenesis is offline  
#24 of 55 Old 06-04-2003, 02:27 PM
 
bxingirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: southern california
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thank you. I'm copying it all!
bxingirl is offline  
#25 of 55 Old 06-05-2003, 03:45 AM
 
Xenogenesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Jamaica me happy.
Posts: 1,991
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It certainly seems to me you have the right approach, bxingirl.
Xenogenesis is offline  
#26 of 55 Old 06-06-2003, 02:48 AM
 
Teresa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 591
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Wow, where to begin?

There can be no financial compensation large enough for having a part of your genitals removed without your consent. If someone said to you, I'll give you money to have this part amputated, how much would you want?

The use of the terms Whole, Intact and/or Natural refer to the human body as it is intended to be. 'Uncircumcised' implies that something is missing, when in fact, the reverse is true. Using Whole, Intact & Natural re-frames the whole issue.

Dealing with the science teacher will be a waste of time. It may help you feel better, though, to try to educate her. Chances are her husband/sons are not 'whole, intact, or natural' and she's unable, as so many are, to admit that it was a mistake. Better to talk to a social studies/world civ. teacher and do a study of circumcision rituals (& rationales) around the world. Female circumcision is illegal in the US even though people that promote it (here & abroad) do so on the same grounds that Americans promote male circumcision. Teens can and do 'get it' especially when they are able to see beyond just the cultural practices of the US. (There's no more reason to circumcise a baby boy than there is a baby girl.) If you're in CA, it's very likely that most of the kids--female and male--are whole and natural.

I never understood the locker-room thing. Girls obviously have drastically different breasts--there's probably more natural variation among female breasts than male penises. Teens are very self-conscious, but I don't think most teens sit around comparing their bodies quite so minutely as that, but I could be wrong. DH is intact and had no problems in HS--a non-issue. I'd be more concerned about the kids that aren't intact being self-conscious. It must be awful for them. I also don't get the inter-generational thing. How many families have father & son comparing penises? The adult penis looks entirely different from the child's. Even if you do the brazilian bikini wax thing, adult women's bodies are quite different from little girls. Of course some families are very comfortable with nudity, but I'd be willing to bet, they're more likely to all be intact & natural as well.

Anyhow, future generations will look back on the North American circumcision fetish as another strange social aberration much like foot-binding, neck-elongating, lip-discs and other forms of ritualized scarification, etc. Already, I can say that all of my children's friends are whole & intact, though I suspect a neighbor's child might not be. But then, maybe I'm just sheltered!
Teresa is offline  
#27 of 55 Old 09-05-2003, 09:05 PM
 
SheBear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: A bit of Dixie in the Midwest!
Posts: 2,846
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Something occurred to me when I read the title of this thread....

If the only difference that is evident between our children and the majority of their peers is the shape/appearance of their genitals, then we, as parents, are doing something very wrong!

What say ye?

Blessings,

Sarah

Sarah, Queen of Hearts, raising a Full House with Michael, King of my Heart!
DS (2/02), DD (3/04), DS (1/06), DD (12/07), and DS (3/10)
~~*~~Not your typical Pastor's Wife!~~*~~
SheBear is offline  
#28 of 55 Old 09-06-2003, 02:32 PM
 
Frankly Speaking's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: North Atlanta
Posts: 5,162
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Sarah:

I have this picture of a 19th Century America as a people who were stalwart, independent and free thinking. people who were willing and able to go against the grain and challenge conventional thinking. These were people who made America great. I see circumcision as a part of this. The doctors, with their limited knowledge and scientific resources were confronted with diseases and maladies that were deadly or deforming and were desperately searching for a cure. By happenstance, a boy recovered from one of these at the same time he was circumcised and with the limited diagnostic abilities they had at the time, it appeared that circumcision was the cure. The people who lived then saw this as new technology and embraced it. It just made sense. Now that it has been proven false, the modern day sheeple of America are not independent and free thinking enough to boot it out with blood letting and skull drilling.

We have become a nation of followers and my neighborhood is clear proof of that. It is an upscale area of successful people but the follow the heard mentality is apparent. Luxury German and Japanese cars are more common than Fords and Chevys. Women with no children drive behemoth SUVs and empty nesters live in 5 and 6 bedroom houses. People walk around in designer label plastered clothes like a billboard to their success whether they have it or not. Everybody tries to dress, look, work and live alike as if they have no mind or desires of their own. If circumcision were a status symbol, all of the children would be circumcised.

This is exactly what has and is happening all over America. Those who are doing it are doing it because they think everybody else is doing it. Just like the woman down the street that drives the SUV as big as a motor home doesn't really like driving something that big and parking it and paying the enormous gas bill does it because all of her neighbors are doing it, there are parents that are causing their children gut wrenching pain, deadly risk and permanent disfigurement simply because the neighbors are doing it and they MUST conform to the neighbors.

Where did the independent spirit that made this country so great go? How did we become such conformists that we will do this to our children?






Frank
Frankly Speaking is offline  
#29 of 55 Old 09-06-2003, 02:56 PM
Banned
 
somemama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,645
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Amen, Frank.
somemama is offline  
#30 of 55 Old 09-06-2003, 03:47 PM
 
SheBear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: A bit of Dixie in the Midwest!
Posts: 2,846
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by Frankly Speaking
Where did the independent spirit that made this country so great go? How did we become such conformists that we will do this to our children?
My point exactly. Your whole post was beautiful and eloquent (having browsed thru most of this forum, exactly what I'd have expected from you! )

That notion of comformity impacts more than just our decisions as parents, though. Our children see us caving to such social pressures--things that are shallow and meaningless--and in the face of our example, what words can we speak to them about honesty, integrity, and thoughtful stewardship of this lovely planet? Such lessons sound hollow to children when the parents are struggling daily to keep up with the Joneses.

I hope--I pray--that my children are obviously "different" from their peers. I hope they are more thoughtful, more compassionate, more merciful (to all creatures) and more far-sighted in seeing how their actions affect future generations.

However, I know it is hard to be different. I've dealt with it most of my life (thank you, Mom and Dad!). Thus, I also hope and pray that I am able to impart to my children the courage and conviction necessary to stand true and tall in the face of whatever ostracism, opposition, and oppression they might face.

Blessings,

Sarah

Sarah, Queen of Hearts, raising a Full House with Michael, King of my Heart!
DS (2/02), DD (3/04), DS (1/06), DD (12/07), and DS (3/10)
~~*~~Not your typical Pastor's Wife!~~*~~
SheBear is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off