Intact men who support circumcision? - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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#31 of 47 Old 04-09-2006, 03:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Frankly Speaking
When I go to the supermarket, I see all kinds of vaginal deodorants and washes and other female supplies. Why can't I find these same types of products for males? Surely there is a market for them, no? Maybe this is where I can make my next $million. :
What a brilliant idea Frank! I have a thought: How about a teeny, tiny air freshener that men can just "tuck" inside their foreskins? I'm sure we can sell TONS of them to all the intact, smelly men who live in Europe, Asia, Central and South America and other non-circumcising countries. You know it's just so bad, especially in the third world countries who have minimal bathing facilities, that women just WILL NOT go near the men.

I've heard that they even have population reduction problems in these countries due to this horrible problem.

I bet we will get rich!!!

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#32 of 47 Old 04-09-2006, 04:05 PM
 
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i know we've started joking around a bit, but i am a wee bit uncomfortable with feeding into the notion that intact men (or women) on the whole, stink more than their mutilated counterparts.

i feel kind of weird being this direct about it, but in the interest of intactivism i'll go ahead and talk about something most people find too personal (& embarassing, vulgar, distasteful- is there a discussion topic more mortifying than genital stink? )

what is not being said- and i'll say it plain- is that some people smell 'better' (less, whatever) than others to most people. who here with a varied sexual history has not smelled women (presumably all intact, i'll make that cultural assumption for this argument) that smell better or worse than others?

some of it is hygiene, some genetics, some hormonal, some diet. to those of us with very sensitive noses, the differences can be extraordinary. it may be judgmental, but some people just smell more appealling than others.

some guys' circ'd penises stink (ball sweat can be killer, too). is it not unlikely that some of the guys whose penises would smell unpleasant regardless are running around intact, & would smell just as wicked circ'd, but they don't know that? (imagine getting circ'd to 'take care of' this issue & finding out it didn't make a difference! is his disappointed wife going to go back to her pro-circing messageboard buddies that talked her into insisting on it & tell 'em, 'no dice, his **** still stinks'? no, she's gonna suck it up & pretend it helped.)

not to be too crude about it, but the stinkiest men i've smelled were far nastier in scent (even with good hygiene) than either the two intact penises i met ( fresh as daisies!) or any woman.

i HOPE that this has not violated any ua stuff; i think it is very, very important to not let timidity issues preclude open & honest discussion of this without smirking. there are hundreds of perfectly unsexual moderated boards for mommies on the web where ignorant women who have never seen an intact penis in their lives feel free to daintily wrinkle their noses at the thought of a foreskin & say 'ew'. we need the freedom to come out & admit, "some circ'd penises are 'ew', too. 'ew' has nothing to do with foreskin." because it doesn't. circumcizing to reduce odor, when something like drinking more water & less coke could be the simple answer, is ridiculous.
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#33 of 47 Old 04-09-2006, 05:13 PM
 
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Well-said, TigerTail!
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#34 of 47 Old 04-09-2006, 05:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by TigerTail
(ball sweat can be killer, too)
Totally OT, but my dh makes this bread I call "sweaty ball bread". It is actually Cheesy Ranch Bread, but dh says it is the yeast I am smelling in the bread and in its' namesake.

On topic- great post TT.
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#35 of 47 Old 04-09-2006, 06:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by A&A
THIS is why it's SO important to me to teach my son that we didn't merely make a "choice" when keeping him intact. (Because then, at some later point in time, he might think we made the wrong "choice.")

I will teach him that I protected his genital integrity, and I will teach him to be PROUD of his intactness!
Just wanted this info up here again.

I also completely agree with TigerTail.

I'd like to add that the whole genital smell thing is one reason on my list of expectations and wished for any future life partner (DH won the game! haha) that I actually wrote up for myself I wrote on the side of "expectation" that I had to REALLY like the way he smelled.

Ok, so I wasn't talking about his penis in that expectation, but I figured if I liked how HE smelled most/all of the time, his hidden parts would smell similarly - probably just stronger. Maybe that's a dumb idea/thought... but it's worked wonderfully. I never did have sex with a guy I didn't enjoy smelling and I've never smelled raunchy nether-area either! Maybe it's a pheremones thing? If I was attracted to a smell and/or liked the way his neck smelled (or armpits or where-ever) then the other more hidden parts couldn't be TOO bad.

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#36 of 47 Old 04-09-2006, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Tori Gollihugh

I'd like to add that the whole genital smell thing is one reason on my list of expectations and wished for any future life partner (DH won the game! haha) that I actually wrote up for myself I wrote on the side of "expectation" that I had to REALLY like the way he smelled.
There have actually been studies on smell/attraction (which guy's T-shirt smell do you like, without actually seeing the guy). Turns out that women are attracted to the smells of men who are similar, but not too similar, to them genetically. Very interesting!

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#37 of 47 Old 04-09-2006, 08:47 PM
 
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ITA with TigerTail. And just for the record, I know diet can have a lot to do with body chemistry. My dh smells (and tastes) a lot sweeter than he used to, and I think it's because he's mostly vegetarian now (we're veg at home).

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#38 of 47 Old 04-10-2006, 12:46 AM
 
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Oh, I agree TT, please don't think I was saying that only intact men stink. I think the points you made are excellent. In the case I was referring to I didn't want to make any comments which could be construed as an attack or rude, so I didn't offer my opinion about their reasoning.
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#39 of 47 Old 04-10-2006, 10:50 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A&A
There have actually been studies on smell/attraction (which guy's T-shirt smell do you like, without actually seeing the guy). Turns out that women are attracted to the smells of men who are similar, but not too similar, to them genetically. Very interesting!
Yep, the wonder of pheromones. Those lovely chemicals which send signals to our brain. I have to say I am the SAME here, I knew there was something special about my DH when I was actually ATTRACTED to his sweat . Yep, and there was. Regardless of intact/cut genitals have an odor. Just like any other part of the body. It makes me wonder too, what cutting off the foreskin does to our level of attraction as well...since it does supply a lot of pheromones. That could affect us on a subconscious level

I remembered that they say the foreskin also has estrogen receptors..hmmm...what exactly are those for?

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#40 of 47 Old 04-10-2006, 11:18 AM
 
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I remember reading an article years ago that talked about a study that found women who didn't like the smell of their husbands (in general...not just genitals) were x% (can't remmeber the actual percentage but it was significant) more likely to end up divorced than women who did like the smell of their husbands.

And I agree that everyone smells...like it or not...cut or not. I can think of another part "down there" that emits far more smell than a foreskin. What do these parents who are so concerend with smell do about that? Surgically implant a cork?

And really smell is such a subjective thing. Just because you dislike the smell of someone doesn't mean they stink.

The whole smell issue is just further evidence of how repressed people can be.

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#41 of 47 Old 04-10-2006, 07:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by phatchristy
Yep, the wonder of pheromones. Those lovely chemicals which send signals to our brain. I have to say I am the SAME here, I knew there was something special about my DH when I was actually ATTRACTED to his sweat . Yep, and there was. Regardless of intact/cut genitals have an odor. Just like any other part of the body. It makes me wonder too, what cutting off the foreskin does to our level of attraction as well...since it does supply a lot of pheromones. That could affect us on a subconscious level

I remembered that they say the foreskin also has estrogen receptors..hmmm...what exactly are those for?
They don't yet know what the estrogen receptors are for. It needs more research.
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#42 of 47 Old 04-10-2006, 08:18 PM
 
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I agree with people here. The two classes I've seen are 1) those who aren't educated about it and just think it is normal, but are easily swayed, and 2) those who had bad experiences (forcible retraction, teasing) that probably wouldn't be relevant modernly with education.
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#43 of 47 Old 04-12-2006, 01:08 AM
 
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My best friend and her husband are TTC, and since I've been reading (here and other places) about a lot of parenting stuff I tend to drop tidbits of info for them (and recommend books and websites) fairly often. They don't do much research or reading on their own, but seem to think of me as their personal research assistant!

Anyway, when another friend of ours was pregnant, we were talking about her baby one day and the subject of circumcision came up. My best friend had previously told me that her dh was intact (miraculously, for this area and his age). We were talking about how sad we were that our friend was going to circumcise her son, and my best friend's intact DH asked, "why wouldn't she?"

He didn't know anything about it. He had no feelings for or against it, even though he apparently has no complaints himself about being intact. I am almost 100% positive that if I (or someone else) hadn't brought it up with them, they would circ any boys they end up having. (Thankfully, within 5 minutes he was anti-circ. I did the back of hand=what a circ'd guy feels/palm of hand=what an intact guy feels, and that sold him completely. Plus his wife flustering about it being "Mutilation!!!!! I'd NEVER do that!!! It's BARBARIC!!!!!" She tends to be all-or-nothing.)

It may just be lack of info. I don't think this sort of thing was discussed all that often if at all (with their parents, I mean), so even the intact guys may have no idea WHY they are intact, exactly what circumcision entails, what the differences are, or even that they ARE intact in some cases!

If I have a baby boy he will definitely be intact, and I will try to inform him about it, too.
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#44 of 47 Old 04-12-2006, 02:29 AM
 
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Originally Posted by A&A
There have actually been studies on smell/attraction (which guy's T-shirt smell do you like, without actually seeing the guy). Turns out that women are attracted to the smells of men who are similar, but not too similar, to them genetically. Very interesting!
I saw that too on The Discovery Channel or TLC. There are several ranges of aromas that people have and people have preferences for those aromas and choose partners based on those aromas. Very interesting! I had a GF that just loved to smell my armpits! At the time, I thought it was wierd but after that show, I understood. That smell was my essence and she was tuned in to that essence and it was a turn-on.

Now, I will have to admit that I have had way more than my share of lovers. That's partly because of age, partly because I was at the right age during the sexual revolution and partly because many women find me attractive. Every one of those women had a genital aroma but not a single one was offensive in any way. That aroma was their essence of their feminity. Possibly, ether they chose me or I chose them based at least partially on compatible scents that we picked up on well before we became lovers.

Although the research is there, our culture has conditioned us to accept these aromas in women but the expectation for men is that they have no discernable genital aroma. That's just unrealistic! Even for circumcised men!



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#45 of 47 Old 04-12-2006, 01:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kxsiven
I'd say lack of information. Since here in Scandinavia circumcision is not done, people don't quite understand how horrible infant circ is. When I have showed the circ video to my Scandinavian friends they have been absolutely appauled and I do not repeat their comments here.

The clean/dirt issue is concidered pretty absurd here, same with diseases. People usually just laugh at that and think it is ridiculous.
My mom moved to the states from Norway just a couple years before she had me. When I had my first son she was so pissed at me for wanting to leave him intact. I could never understand it, she grew up where everyone was intact. But she married my dad who was circed so maybe that's where she got her idea circed was better? I have no idea but it always confused me as to why she would be pro-circ. Unless it was the whole Jewish thing, but she didn't care about Brit Milah, she just wanted him to be circed. Talked about "it's better" "it's cleaner" Blech.

I've slept with both and hands down the intact ones felt better. Wven though the guys weren't particularly good lovers, the penis itself made a huge difference. I hate sex with circed penises (sorry DH ) It feels like being slammed with a pole.
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#46 of 47 Old 04-12-2006, 05:49 PM
 
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I hate sex with circed penises (sorry DH ) It feels like being slammed with a pole.
You know, I think that is the most accurate description of it I've ever heard! It's so true.
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#47 of 47 Old 04-13-2006, 10:32 AM
 
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Originally Posted by mara
I've slept with both and hands down the intact ones felt better. Wven though the guys weren't particularly good lovers, the penis itself made a huge difference. I hate sex with circed penises (sorry DH ) It feels like being slammed with a pole.
I seriously mentally cringe when I read that stuff. Thinking of the men here who might read that and feel like they've been stabbed in the gut. And, it just sucks as it isn't their fault .

I have talked to a lot of women on this subject. Nearly all women who've been with both tell me that they prefer the intact penis...for some of them they say it is a subtle but good difference. There have been a few who have told me that for them the sex was only slightly different, but the foreplay/stimulation is virtually non-existant on the cut man (no skin to play with). The main difference I have heard from women is the lack of irritation after sex/different thrust (less slamming more grinding sort of thing).

Call me in the minority here, but I actually enjoy sex with my cut DH : , though I have to say he has started restoring and I think things can only improve . He has a looser circ so I think the huge difference is going to be from him gaining sensation and not needing the rougher stimulation. Though, I can use some of the skin he has left during foreplay for stimulation.

On one other note, I heard from a guy once who is intact (still is too), though had his two son's circ'd. He said he did it because of one bad experience he had with a woman, he woke up with her the next morning, saw it in it's flaccid state and freaked out. He had sort of gotten a complex his whole life about cleanliness and being different (he grew up in the midwest, definitely not foreskin friendly 35 years ago). Anyhow he ended up having his son done. He says now (that he knows) if someone had only told him what is lost to circumcision and everything that he knows now about cleanliness being a crock, that he wouldn't have done it to his sons. Apparently that one incident was enough to "send him over the edge" thinking he was preventing his sons mental anguish of being different. Of course, though, like you've all said, he is still intact. My dad let them do my brother, and he was intact (since passed on). What makes me the most upset about it is how difficult it is going to be for them to let their sons say whole. My own brother went on to circumcise his sons . My mom says she never even knew what circumcision was (definitely didn't know that they amputated most of the skin of the penis...she only ever say my dad and so that was her normal), and when she saw my brother she was "horrified." That was the actual term she used. She said it was even worse that it was infected and they sent her home with this damaged little boy and antibiotics. I so wish my mom had shared that with my brother. That he might have thought twice before victimizing his own sons .

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