In talking to intact/circ'd men about orgasm something I seem to notice... - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 82 Old 05-02-2006, 11:43 PM
 
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Islay: I can't compare my restored foreskin to what I would have felt if I had been intact because I was circed in early childhood. If you are intact, you can't either. As far as nerves being cut, I think the damage from that is a little overrated. Sorry, if that offends any anti-circers, but I honestly feel it is true. I have a very good friend who was circumcised at 19 and has since restored. He knows how it feels ALL THREE WAYS and has told me that the main difference is just a sense of looseness... the prepuce isn't as tight and snappy anymore. Anyhoo, whether you believe in all that "it isn't as good as natural" stuff or not... all I can really say is how satisfied I am now compared to before... and it is a monumentally huge improvement!!! As far as hair... no... it's not really worse than it ever was. I always had some hair on the shaft from my tight cut... but it has actually receded as I grew new skin, not creeped up. I am very careful what type of skin I put tension on to restore, tho, and I also make sure to hold down the hair and scrotum when manually stretching to prevent any kind of hair creep.
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#62 of 82 Old 05-03-2006, 12:40 AM
 
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I do believe that it does feel better being intact, I mean lots of sensitive skin is cut off during circ. And the mechanics are different so the feeling is different. My only disagreement was with a statement that ALL men that are circed are incapable of full body orgasms.
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#63 of 82 Old 05-03-2006, 12:45 AM
 
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Pandora & Wolfcat...

Fascinating responses! Thank you. Though they do gainsay all I have ever understood about female sexuality. Hey, but it's never too late to learn!

However, it does beg my next question...

Since this thread is about the perceived difference between circ'd and uncirc'd male orgasms, may I ask if either of you have experienced both? It occurs to me that this could be significant. (Forgive me if I'm asking what most long-time members may know already, but I'm new here and a long way from reaching even 'Member' status yet!)

Last question...

Foreplay - surely females need this before sexual intercourse? Or is the anticipation (as in male arousal) sometimes enough?

Christopher

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#64 of 82 Old 05-03-2006, 01:21 AM
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I have a very good friend who was circumcised at 19 and has since restored.
Much different as an adult though. When an adult gets cut, more is saved.

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#65 of 82 Old 05-03-2006, 12:46 PM
 
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Not necessarily true, because every circumcision is different, and even adults get bad overly tight cuts... but that is absolutely the closest we can come to knowing how different the two are... intact and restored, I mean. I'm not one of those people who like to wallow in despair or complain or try to make mountains out of molehills so I can feel there is some drama in my life. I restored. I love it. My take on the whole intact versus restored debate is this: if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck. I know that doesn't sit well with very politically motivated anti-circ people, because it kind of gives people an excuse to go ahead and cut, justifying it with "If he doesn't like it he can always restore." All I care about it being honest... and the honest truth is, I felt there was something missing before. I don't feel that way anymore. I support the right of any ADULT AND FULLY-INFORMED male to circumcise himself if he wants. Hey, it's his loss! I mainly just oppose RIC and try to get guys who feel lacking to restore their foreskins, cause its such a great improvement.
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#66 of 82 Old 05-03-2006, 03:21 PM
 
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Just a little reminder to keep ontopic and not delve too much into personal sex issues.

"To err is human, to forgive, canine." - Unknown
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#67 of 82 Old 05-03-2006, 11:55 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I have relatives visiting, and have been busy with them (though circumcision has been the topic of conversation with my mom and some BIG family "secrets" have come forward regarding it---aha, for another thread later when I have time).

Here is some of what I was told:

I know a guy who was circumcised as an adult. From what he described, he described it as a moderately loose circ, with a fair amount of intermucosal skin left. He was actually circ'd because of an "idiot doctor while in the military." Anyhow, he did say, before circ he was able to easily achieve what he described as powerful full body orgasms. Afterwards, he said he lost at least half his sensation, and was unable to have orgasms as intense, and nearly all sensation was centered on the penis. He stayed that way for over 10 years...rather frustrated (he even said that he no longer masturbated at all as he said after circ it was a futile attempt at pleasure). Anyhow, he happened upon restoration. It took him about two years, but he said that although it was not the same he said maybe 70% of his lost sensation returned. He did have all his frenulum remaining and he said he was very thankful for that.

I have also talked to three restored men who have said that before restoring the sensation was centered solely on the penis, however after restoration their orgasms were so much more intense and less localized.

Anyhow, regardless of people who want to "think" that there is no difference (trust me, I would love it if that was the case with a cut DH but it is not), these are from what I have read at some of the restoration sites VERY common things.

Anyhow, it really makes me feel sick when I think of how my DH was robbed...and I know some of you out there would say that sexual pleasure isn't one of the most important reasons for not doing a circ...but I have to say that for an adult man (and hey, most of us out there will be spending the vast majority of our lives as an adult) the sexual aspect of circumcision has the most lifelong repercussions. And, we know from examples of restored men, and men who are circ'd as adults that circ does take away that ability to have the fullest orgasms possible for them.

Of course, not everyone is going to fit into a neat box...not are circs are the same (as we have discussed). There is of course variance among women as well (after all, there are women out there who don't need foreplay or cuddling, ejaculate, am multiorgasmic and feel energized after sex ). Hey, I know there's one living in my household .

But, even if you use that argument..."well, some men are sensitive in some areas more than others", etc...well, frankly why even RISK it by removing anything?

I mean, give your boy a full chance at having the best sexual pleasure that God/nature intended him to have, right?

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#68 of 82 Old 05-04-2006, 08:28 AM
 
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Right. But then, if your goal is actaully to make him enjoy sex less, then you will circ.

After all over a century ago, that was the reason drs recced circing. To reduce masturbation. That is the reason women are mutilated too, to reduce sexual sensation.

Humans really seem to need to control each others' sexuality. They must be really afraid of "natural" sexual pleasure. I wonder why? Is it a form of birth control? Reduce sexual sensation, have less sex, have less babies? And of course, decrease infidelity?
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#69 of 82 Old 05-04-2006, 05:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by DaryLLL
Right. But then, if your goal is actaully to make him enjoy sex less, then you will circ.

After all over a century ago, that was the reason drs recced circing. To reduce masturbation. That is the reason women are mutilated too, to reduce sexual sensation.

Humans really seem to need to control each others' sexuality. They must be really afraid of "natural" sexual pleasure. I wonder why? Is it a form of birth control? Reduce sexual sensation, have less sex, have less babies? And of course, decrease infidelity?
I think there is a certain amount of unconscious need to decrease sexual desire, to reduce infidelity in women and competition in men...

To clarify, I'm basing this opinion on the biophysiological sexuality studies that I am aware of. These are, of course, animal-based with speculative theorization on human applicability. (There go all of my 50 cent words for the year! )

Many male animals will cause temporary sexual inhibitions to prevent the females from having the babies of another male (reducing sperm competition, etc.). The things that they can do would make your eyes pop... :

Anywho, there have been several studies that strongly suggest that many of these instincts are still a subconscious influence on modern, "civilized" humans. So, while we don't do the caveman-dragging-by-the-hair stuff, we still act often in accordance with these desires.

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#70 of 82 Old 05-05-2006, 09:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by DaddyJoe
Islay: I can't compare my restored foreskin to what I would have felt if I had been intact because I was circed in early childhood. If you are intact, you can't either. As far as nerves being cut, I think the damage from that is a little overrated. Sorry, if that offends any anti-circers, but I honestly feel it is true. I have a very good friend who was circumcised at 19 and has since restored. He knows how it feels ALL THREE WAYS and has told me that the main difference is just a sense of looseness... the prepuce isn't as tight and snappy anymore. Anyhoo, whether you believe in all that "it isn't as good as natural" stuff or not... all I can really say is how satisfied I am now compared to before... and it is a monumentally huge improvement!!! As far as hair... no... it's not really worse than it ever was. I always had some hair on the shaft from my tight cut... but it has actually receded as I grew new skin, not creeped up. I am very careful what type of skin I put tension on to restore, tho, and I also make sure to hold down the hair and scrotum when manually stretching to prevent any kind of hair creep.
DaddyJoe, thanks for your response which I read with interest.

To my ever increasing regret, I had to be circumcised about three years ago. (Though I'm delighted to say that all three of my children were conceived whilst my partner and I were still able to enjoy the immeasurable benefits of a foreskin.) So, yes, sadly I can compare.

Respectfully, I must disagree with your comment about the loss of nerves. I'm sure you're aware of their specialised nature and purpose. It's difficult to keep within the guidelines of this board and still illustrate my point, but I will try. (Please read between the words.) Oral... tongue and/or finger... glans... foreskin. The sensation is uniquely exquisite. During sexual intercouse, the inner foreskin and its sensory nerves are designed to work in conjunction with the glans and, well... enough said?

This is not to say that a successful restoration such as yours is not a huge step towards recovering what was lost in your circumcision. The looseness your friend describes is apparent and an inevitable part of any attempt to recreate a naturally existing prepuce. By the way, was his circumcision elective or medically required? If the latter, it could be significant.

Once again, I applaud all your efforts to encourage and assist others wishing to restore. If their success matches yours then their improvement will be equally monumental... good for you and good for them!!

Christopher

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#71 of 82 Old 05-05-2006, 09:22 PM
 
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if you don't mind sharing, christopher, i'll ask: what is the medical reason you were given for 'needing' circumcision? (i had a scottish bf that was circ'd at 13, sadly never able to orgasm after. ) and are you attempting to restore? (as for the other details- *cough*, yes, i have been on the other side of that equation, & from my vantage point, it was unique. 'nuff said.)
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#72 of 82 Old 05-05-2006, 10:03 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Wolfcat
....... Many male animals will cause temporary sexual inhibitions to prevent the females from having the babies of another male (reducing sperm competition, etc.)........
The following is largely OT, but was prompted by the above from Wolfcat. I apologise in advance!

About a year ago the BBC ran a fascinating TV series entitled: What If... Each of these programmes was based on existing, measurable criteria and applied to our future world. One of these discussed and dramatised the ramifications of a disturbing - to say the least - world-wide fact that will affect human reproduction if the trend continues (regardless of a man's penile state vis a vis circumcision, by the way).

Studies show that the human sperm count is dropping, year by year.

The final, slightly tongue-in-cheek, conlusion eluded to a possible matriarchal society where males became treasured for their 'stud' potential or discarded as manual workhorses. Eventually, though, it was postulated that specialised DNA implants would produce the embryos to perpetuate the species.

The stuff of science fiction... or a possibilty??

Christopher

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#73 of 82 Old 05-05-2006, 11:17 PM
 
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Originally Posted by TigerTail
if you don't mind sharing, christopher, i'll ask: what is the medical reason you were given for 'needing' circumcision? (i had a scottish bf that was circ'd at 13, sadly never able to orgasm after. ) and are you attempting to restore? (as for the other details- *cough*, yes, i have been on the other side of that equation, & from my vantage point, it was unique. 'nuff said.)
Briefly for the moment, TigerTail (it's very late here!). An emergency caused by paraphimosis following phimosis... which itself was the result of premature retraction when I was 6. It was an abusive incident that I'm not certain is appropriate to detail here. (Perhaps Karen could comment if she reads this?)
Alternatively, by all means e-mail me or send a private message.

Your poor, erstwhile b/f... I can only imagine that the circumcision itself was so invasive (possibly very tight - or worse) that it prevented his ability to orgasm. It does take longer to achieve with no foreskin, and in comparison, even masturbation is hard work.

No, I won't attempt restoration. At least, I think not... largely for the very reason of the reciprocal 'uniqueness' we spoke of. :

Christopher

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#74 of 82 Old 05-05-2006, 11:44 PM
 
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Islay, I think it would be appropriate to discuss the medical technical aspects of what happened that led up to your needing a medical circumcision as an adult. Any personal details of the experience can be shared via PM or email with any members you chose.

I do think that learning about medically necessary circ is informative as the need (however real or not) to be circ'd at an older age or adult certainly does influence people to circ their infants.

I would be interested in the amount of pain perceived and the amount of pain relief provided to you by the medical staff.

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#75 of 82 Old 05-06-2006, 11:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by PuppyFluffer
I do think that learning about medically necessary circ is informative as the need (however real or not) to be circ'd at an older age or adult certainly does influence people to circ their infants.

I would be interested in the amount of pain perceived and the amount of pain relief provided to you by the medical staff.
Yes, ditto to this.

This thread has been fascinating and informative to read. Thanks everyone!
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#76 of 82 Old 05-07-2006, 04:10 PM
 
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I am circumcised but I believe any guy can have a full body O by focusing away from the penis.There is even a book out called The Multi Orgasmic Male which provides techniques to help men have this experience.I used to have them in my sleep before puberty.
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#77 of 82 Old 05-07-2006, 10:06 PM
 
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Islay, I think it would be appropriate to discuss the medical technical aspects of what happened that led up to your needing a medical circumcision as an adult. Any personal details of the experience can be shared via PM or email with any members you chose.

I do think that learning about medically necessary circ is informative as the need (however real or not) to be circ'd at an older age or adult certainly does influence people to circ their infants.

I would be interested in the amount of pain perceived and the amount of pain relief provided to you by the medical staff.
Karen, for the first part, I will do my best to be clinical...

Forced retraction at 6 years old caused injury. The wound healed but left a significant scar which was not overly intrusive until well into adulthood. By this time it became increasingly difficult/uncomfortable to achieve natural retraction during the sexual act. As the years passed, even manual retraction became impossible without pain. At this point it was important to seek medical assistance. Steriod cream and gentle stretching seemed helpful at first, but the scarred flesh had little or no elasticity, which prevented any further benefit. This was a classic example of acquired phimosis, apparently. A dorsal slit was discussed but discarded for asthetic and practical reasons. Intercourse continued, occasionally. It was not pleasant. Finally, paraphimosis occurred. An emergency visit to hospital released the trapped foreskin, but with unequivocal advice - to accept circumcision as soon as possible or refrain from penetrative sex in the future.

I hope it's obvious to any passing visitor to this board that my experience is very much the exception than the rule. I have a twin brother and two younger brothers who are very happily intact; grandsons too. Rather than influence anyone to circumcise their little boys, I hope they will view my circumcision in perspective; and even, perhaps, rejoice that I was able to live through my baby-making days with a fuctioning foreskin.

Pain and pain relief: I opted for a local anaesthetic because a general carries risks, however small. I was distressed and nervous, of course. I didn't want to lose my foreskin. (There was a moment when I discovered the surgeon was female when I wished I had chosen general anaesthesia, but as things turned out, she was probably more caring and reassuring than most males.) The injections in the base of the penis were uncomfortable, to say the least, but once they had taken effect, I relaxed. The best way to illustrate the effectiveness of the anaesthetic is to relate the moment when the first incision was made. One of the attending nurses asked me: "Did you feel that?"

"No," I replied, "Not a thing."

"Just as well," she said. "You'd have kicked her!"

I felt nothing until the anaesthetic wore off, about forty-five minutes later.

The initial pain and prolonged, acute sensitivity of the exposed glans during the next two weeks was hard to cope with, despite strong pain-killers. I can best describe this tenderness as similar to knocking the humerus (funny-bone). It's still with me, though decreasing with time as the glans forms a dry, toughened surface in the absence of its protective prepuce.

I had some problems after surgery with a closing penile meatus and a UTI, but I was told this is symptomatic of adult circumcision.

Christopher

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#78 of 82 Old 05-07-2006, 10:42 PM
 
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A dorsal slit was discussed but discarded for asthetic and practical reasons.
Could you explain please?
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#79 of 82 Old 05-08-2006, 05:40 PM
 
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Could you explain please?
A dorsal slit is an incision made along the upper side of the foreskin, of sufficient length to release the phimotic condition and allow retraction. Once healing is over, the resulting flap of foreskin that hangs down is not only unsightly but can compromise penetration.

None of the foreskin is removed but it is mutilated and cannot function as nature intended.

Christopher

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#80 of 82 Old 05-11-2006, 10:00 PM
 
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I had a peculiar discussion with my DH about orgasms. I shared with him what mine are like, the fact that they are nearly always full body orgasms (to the extent that sometimes I swear I am floating above my body in ecstacy ). I feel it in my arms, back and incredibly in my face among other places. And, his response was "I feel it on the penis or it feels good on the penis." He didn't really have a concept exactly of what I meant by full body orgasms.

You know those fluttery/shivery sensations that you can have when you run your fingertips over someone lightly on the back/arm/thigh...well, he thinks those sensations are more "sensitive" than what he experiences during direct sexual stimulation. That really got me to thinking/worrying that sex for him sounds more like satisfying an urge and that it feels good, but isn't the "blissful dance of love" that it is for me.

In light of that conversation, I have opened up a bit of conversation IRL with some men who are intact and others who are circ'd. It seems that all the intact men KNOW what I am saying when I describe the sensations that I feel. They seem to have the "full body sensations" the way that I do. On the other hand, it seems like nearly every cut guy is saying that things are centered on the "penis" and they don't have a mental concept of a full body orgasm.

I don't have a big sample to go from, so I thought I might ask some opinions on this? Also, I know we have restored/restoring men here. Might they comment on the differences before/after with regards to this?

WhatwhatwhatwhatwhatWHAT?!

I had heard that circed guys missed out but I never imagined that it was this bad!

I feel those all the time, I can not imagine doing without...
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#81 of 82 Old 05-15-2006, 01:44 PM
 
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they are nearly always full body orgasms (to the extent that sometimes I swear I am floating above my body in ecstacy ). I feel it in my arms, back and incredibly in my face among other places. And, his response was "I feel it on the penis or it feels good on the penis." He didn't really have a concept exactly of what I meant by full body orgasms.
Yep! Precisely my experience. I remember hearing my best friend tell me about his wedding night. No, no details, but all he told me it was special between them, and that it was 'different' than he'd expected. The idea was that it wasn't as exciting as he'd envisioned it would be. He is circed and they waited til their wedding night. I do know in later years he was very disappointed that she wouldn't give him oral. (related??)

What has amazed me is this: I'm choosing to wait until marriage for the 'act', but in fooling around and sometimes just kissing, ex gf's have been *extremely* responsive. Just cuddling with them, or kissing. One gf went into spasms and 'woke the neighbors' . I remember her telling me about a prior bf who couldn't come inside of her--she asked me why that might have been --was it an inadequacy in her? I didn't know--now I know--her bf was circed!! My current g/f and I can be just laying on the couch in each other's arms, fully clothed, just kissing, and she can come again and again and again. It's amazing. Me? It takes an act of Congress. And though I enjoy seeing her response, sometimes I've felt like I'm accomdating her--rather than just reveling in the joy of just being together. (I had just started restoring when I met her, and taking the tape off, I was more sensitive to rubbing against her, but still nothing compared to her 'earth-shaking' experiences. And increasingly I've realized that the girls I've dated get WAAAYYYYYY more out of our sexual experiences than do I

I have to admit that sometimes I read these posts I get so angry at what was done to me. (and perhaps a bit 'down') But it does help for me to actively talk parents out of 'circing'--very exciting to see my friends 'see the light'.
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#82 of 82 Old 05-15-2006, 02:03 PM
 
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All I can say is its a different world with my intact boyfriend.
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