If a friend of your chooses to circ...do you stay friends with them? - Page 9 - Mothering Forums

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#241 of 303 Old 06-10-2006, 07:39 PM
 
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Why can't people just stay friends if they feel comfortable and not if they don't? I just don't get why there has to be any contention on this issue. As of right now, circumcision is accepted by half the mainstream so you can't expect everyone to "get it". If I have friend who annoys me or seems like a "bad" parent or I don't enjoy being around them, then I won't be friends with them. I just don't really see this as having a one size fits all answer.

What about being vegetarian and having friends who eat meat? I couldn't deal with that at one point and now I can.
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#242 of 303 Old 06-10-2006, 08:53 PM
 
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Originally Posted by akspinali
Sorry, i'm new to this. What is the info on circ? Unnecessary I know, but why so dreadfully bad?
A great place to start is http://research.cirp.org, which describes (with pictures) the most sensitive part of the penis (the ridged band of the foreskin).

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#243 of 303 Old 06-10-2006, 09:58 PM
 
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Why is it so necesary for some of you to tell me who I have to be friends with?

I have friends with circ'd sons. I have a circ'd son. Once we knew what we had done, we regretted it. I do not drop friends because they have made uninformed mistakes.
I do drop friends who either refuse to look at the facts or look at the facts and say "too bad; I'm gonna mutilate my infant boy anyway"

I also refused to remain friends with a man who raped his DDs. Same thing IMO. The question was would I remain friends with someone who chose to circ. My answer was "not if they were informed or refused to look at the facts because she might feel bad if she did" :

That is MY choice, not yours...

It is not a parenting choice just because it's legal. IMO It's an immoral and actually illegal, just not enforced crime.

(It can't be illegal for baby girls and not illegal for baby boys; that is simply against the law in this country)
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#244 of 303 Old 06-10-2006, 10:03 PM
 
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I have friends that I love dearly that had a circumcision done on at least one of their sons. I feel sad every time I see them, especially the ones that were done without anesthesia. But they didn't know any better. I need them in my life and I can't let it affect how I feel about them. It does in a way, but I don't let it rule me.
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#245 of 303 Old 06-11-2006, 12:35 AM - Thread Starter
 
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5 pages already eh?

I just can't get over some of the comments like:
Quote:
i'd hate to think someone would stop being my friend becasue of a choice i made reguarding MY children
IT IS NOT YOUR CHOICE!!! Not your body, not your choice!

For the people making comments like the one above, if I were your friend, and I gave birth to a beautiful baby girl and you came to visit me and I said "Ohhh poor Suzie, I had her circ'd today". Would you be friends with me????? Probably not....because she was a circ'd female. So it's horribly wrong to circ a female but not a male. I just don't get it.

Like I had said in my original posts.....this girl KNEW all of the reasons not to circ....but thought a circ'd penis looks "nicer". Stupid stupid.
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#246 of 303 Old 06-11-2006, 01:12 AM
 
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We had our first son circ'd. Obviously it is something I regret very much. Our 2nd ds is intact, and all future children will be left whole as well. I would be in no place to judge a friend who had her boys circ'd out of ignorance. However, I have tried to convince several pregnant friends not to circ their boys and they did it anyway. After that, I just never felt the same way towards them. I didn't officially denounce them as a friend, but I just feel kind of sick to my stomach when we talk. So I haven't completely dropped them as friends, but just kind of let our friendships distance and fizzle out. I am still clinging to the hope of changing their minds before they have any more kids. If I totally dropped them as friends, to me that is also missing an opportunity to change their minds. Maybe I couldn't save some of their sons, but there is always hope for the next.

Blessed mama of four
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#247 of 303 Old 06-11-2006, 08:30 AM
 
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I would not stop being someones friend because they didn't agree with me (and that is what this boils down to) Each parent is entitled to make the best decision they are capable of for their child/children. For the record, I think it's best not to circ but our son had to be circ'd at age 4 due to medical reasons....so according to the majority on this forum I should be kicked to the curb because I made a different decision for my son.

Yikes...alot of the posts on this thread scream hipocracy. Acceptance, tolerance who needs it right...let's just stay friends with people that do exactly as we think they should. Sorry ladies..no thanks.
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#248 of 303 Old 06-11-2006, 08:41 AM
 
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Originally Posted by kellyengel
I would not stop being someones friend because they didn't agree with me (and that is what this boils down to) Each parent is entitled to make the best decision they are capable of for their child/children. For the record, I think it's best not to circ but our son had to be circ'd at age 4 due to medical reasons....so according to the majority on this forum I should be kicked to the curb because I made a different decision for my son.

Yikes...alot of the posts on this thread scream hipocracy. Acceptance, tolerance who needs it right...let's just stay friends with people that do exactly as we think they should. Sorry ladies..no thanks.
Hey there Kelly, welcome to MDC.

Sorry if there was any lack of clarity in effect here but when we refer to circumcision here what most of us actually mean is RIC, i.e. an operation performed without any medical point upon a healthy infant soon after birth that amputates functioning erogenous tissue using mere speculative reasoning.

As your son actually had a medical condition no one here will hold it against you. It is just seen as a sad occurance that he had to go through it, a little like a hysterectomy really.

What was he circumcised for exactly?
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#249 of 303 Old 06-11-2006, 09:06 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Revamp
As your son actually had a medical condition no one here will hold it against you. It is just seen as a sad occurance that he had to go through it, a little like a hysterectomy really.
I'm deeply offended by that comparison. I feel you should educate yourself more on the physical and mental effects of a hysterectomy before you make any more comparisons like that.

While the child being circumcised for a medical condition is an unfortunate thing. He healed, hopefully without incident, and will be able to go on with his normal reproductive life.

On the other hand, I was cut almost in half, I had 187 internal stiches, I lost all of my reproductive capablilities, and I lost some of my hormonal functions (I kept my ovaries but they have decreased production due to low blood flow). It was an extremely invasive procedure. I know, I read the surgical report and all the juicy details about what position I was in for preop exam and what instrument was put where. It also took me 12 weeks to be released from my surgeon's care.

So to read an uninformed comment like yours is infuriating and offensive.
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#250 of 303 Old 06-11-2006, 10:55 AM
 
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Originally Posted by KatyMom
I'm deeply offended by that comparison. I feel you should educate yourself more on the physical and mental effects of a hysterectomy before you make any more comparisons like that.

While the child being circumcised for a medical condition is an unfortunate thing. He healed, hopefully without incident, and will be able to go on with his normal reproductive life.

On the other hand, I was cut almost in half, I had 187 internal stiches, I lost all of my reproductive capablilities, and I lost some of my hormonal functions (I kept my ovaries but they have decreased production due to low blood flow). It was an extremely invasive procedure. I know, I read the surgical report and all the juicy details about what position I was in for preop exam and what instrument was put where. It also took me 12 weeks to be released from my surgeon's care.

So to read an uninformed comment like yours is infuriating and offensive.
I am very sorry you had to have a hysterectomy. There is no doubt that it is a terrible thing to go through, whether or not it was actually medically necessary. (I know that far too many doctors do hysterectomies when they are unnecessary, without regard to the lifelong impacts on women - I know it is one of the most over-prescribed surgeries in this country. I am not saying *yours* was unnecessary.)

I do take exception to one of your statements, though -

Quote:
He healed, hopefully without incident, and will be able to go on with his normal reproductive life.
Circumcision is definitely not as invasive as hysterectomy, it is not major surgery, it does not involve hormones, etc. but it does have lifelong impacts on a man's sexuality, and it can have serious complications. It can cut short a man's reproductive and sexual life - circed men become impotent years earlier than intact men. Babies can and do die as a result of routine infant circumcision in this country, and many have complications above and beyond the complication of the loss of the foreskin.

http://www.norm.org/lost.html

http://www.circumstitions.com/Complic.html

I think what circumcision and hysterectomy have in common -- even if they are not equal in terms of the scope of surgery, the number of stitches, blood loss, healing time, etc. -- is that they are far too often performed without adequate medical justification by doctors who do not inform their patients (or their parents) of the lifelong impacts of the procedure. Consumer Reports puts both on the list of "12 surgeries you may be better off without" :

http://www.consumerreports.org/mg/fr..._surgeries.htm

A million baby boys are circed every year in this country at birth without medical justification. That is the type of circumcision we are discussing in this thread - the ones that are done without any medical reason whatsoever.

Even those babies who escape circ at birth are often circumcised for no good medical reason - for "phimosis," for example, or "repeated infections" that can be directly traced to bad medical advice to retract for cleaning from birth (which causes damage). The rates of "medically necessary" circumcisions in this country are many times greater those in more enlightened countries such as Sweden.

So no one should make light of a massive surgery like hysterectomy - but I think the point of comparison is in its lack of necessity, and its lifelong effects.

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#251 of 303 Old 06-11-2006, 01:07 PM
 
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i am new, but no, this wasn't talked about elsewhere, least not elsewhere that i visit.
i was just wandering by, thought i had a little opinion to tell.
thats about it.
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#252 of 303 Old 06-11-2006, 01:49 PM
 
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I'm really trying to understand here....honestly! I'm against routine circ, but I would not drop a friend if that was the only factor involved. My choice, and others have their choice...I was just giving my opinion on my original post that I don't agree and I thought it was a shame. - again I don't see how this thread is that horrible. Folks that have diffrent views are expressing them! The thread topic was posed as a question, correct?

What I'm a bit confused on. My husband was circ'd for "normalacy" reasons and my brother was circ'd for "religious" reasons. Both of which I don't agree with now. But my husband has had a wonderful healthy sexual and reproductive and all around healthy life. He would never ask for more....just doesn't seem to get any better than it is. He is happy (and now, too though is against circ because it just isn't nescessary, not because he's had any problems) and I feel there is no argument that can be made that would do anything other than try to deter him from being happy???? My brother is in the same situation. He is very happy and reproductivily quite happy and loves our mother. Do you think he should feel other wise? I'm just pointing out that while I understand that there are many tragedies and problems caused by circ - it is not always that way, not 100% and being a person who did circ her son before I really knew all the info out there, I want support of raising my son to be proud of who he is, who I am and would never think of planting any kind of seed that he is somehow "doomed". That does not mean I can not be an advocate of non-circ...do some of you think otherwise? What would you say to those friends you have chosen to keep "because they didn't know better" on how to raise their boys?

I really (loosley??)equate this to veganism. It is murder to kill animals to some. Same as murdering a human. Some people think it is that serious and that you should not have the choice to kill an animal. How would you respond to this?

I'm posing these questions as a way to understand...not to argue. We are all trying to change things!
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#253 of 303 Old 06-11-2006, 01:51 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KatyMom
I'm deeply offended by that comparison. I feel you should educate yourself more on the physical and mental effects of a hysterectomy before you make any more comparisons like that.

While the child being circumcised for a medical condition is an unfortunate thing. He healed, hopefully without incident, and will be able to go on with his normal reproductive life.

On the other hand, I was cut almost in half, I had 187 internal stiches, I lost all of my reproductive capablilities, and I lost some of my hormonal functions (I kept my ovaries but they have decreased production due to low blood flow). It was an extremely invasive procedure. I know, I read the surgical report and all the juicy details about what position I was in for preop exam and what instrument was put where. It also took me 12 weeks to be released from my surgeon's care.

So to read an uninformed comment like yours is infuriating and offensive.
Well I am sorry that I caused you offence.

My point was this though: when I read your description I felt immense and deep sympathy for you and what you went through. However when I considered the alternative to leaving the organs in place I recognised that yes it was required.

There was a need for it to happen otherwise worse would have occured to you, it was awful that it was needed but it was needed.

This is the difference between a routine circumcision and a circumcision of actual medical value, the difference which I was attempting to illustrate. If my methodology offended you then I apologise but I assure you I was am not and was not ignorant of what the surgery entailed.

Furthermore the reproductive life of a circumcised man can hardly be considered "Normal". In so far as the results are the same yes but the process required is devoided of the gliding motion and frenular stimulation and filled with artificial lube.

Assuming, that is, worse complications have not occured.

Never the less I am very sorry for your experience and any and all offence which I caused you.
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#254 of 303 Old 06-11-2006, 01:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by treefolk
I'm really trying to understand here....honestly! I'm against routine circ, but I would not drop a friend if that was the only factor involved. My choice, and others have their choice...I was just giving my opinion on my original post that I don't agree and I thought it was a shame. - again I don't see how this thread is that horrible. Folks that have diffrent views are expressing them! The thread topic was posed as a question, correct?

What I'm a bit confused on. My husband was circ'd for "normalacy" reasons and my brother was circ'd for "religious" reasons. Both of which I don't agree with now. But my husband has had a wonderful healthy sexual and reproductive and all around healthy life. He would never ask for more....just doesn't seem to get any better than it is. He is happy (and now, too though is against circ because it just isn't nescessary, not because he's had any problems) and I feel there is no argument that can be made that would do anything other than try to deter him from being happy???? My brother is in the same situation. He is very happy and reproductivily quite happy and loves our mother. Do you think he should feel other wise? I'm just pointing out that while I understand that there are many tragedies and problems caused by circ - it is not always that way, not 100% and being a person who did circ her son before I really knew all the info out there, I want support of raising my son to be proud of who he is, who I am and would never think of planting any kind of seed that he is somehow "doomed". That does not mean I can not be an advocate of non-circ...do some of you think otherwise? What would you say to those friends you have chosen to keep "because they didn't know better" on how to raise their boys?

I really (loosley??)equate this to veganism. It is murder to kill animals to some. Same as murdering a human. Some people think it is that serious and that you should not have the choice to kill an animal. How would you respond to this?

I'm posing these questions as a way to understand...not to argue. We are all trying to change things!
I am very pleased that your husband and your brother are content but this stems primarily from not being fully aware of what they are missing.

With regards to veganism I believe you mean vegetarianism, vegans believe it is unethical to eat or use and animal products. I fall into the former category and I can inform you that almost all of my friends do eat meat. In fact I jokingly mentioned this today when a friend of mine said something along the lines of "That bacon looks lovely" and met the reply of "Funny, looks unethical to me..."

I do not push my views when it comes to that issue though, although for some reason I did take issue with her castrating her cats.

I suppose it is all because of my mangled priorities really...

Anyway, funny that you should mention that today.
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#255 of 303 Old 06-11-2006, 02:03 PM
 
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Originally Posted by treefolk

What I'm a bit confused on. My husband was circ'd for "normalacy" reasons and my brother was circ'd for "religious" reasons. Both of which I don't agree with now. But my husband has had a wonderful healthy sexual and reproductive and all around healthy life. He would never ask for more....just doesn't seem to get any better than it is. He is happy (and now, too though is against circ because it just isn't nescessary, not because he's had any problems) and I feel there is no argument that can be made that would do anything other than try to deter him from being happy???? My brother is in the same situation. He is very happy and reproductivily quite happy and loves our mother. Do you think he should feel other wise? I'm just pointing out that while I understand that there are many tragedies and problems caused by circ - it is not always that way, not 100% and being a person who did circ her son before I really knew all the info out there, I want support of raising my son to be proud of who he is, who I am and would never think of planting any kind of seed that he is somehow "doomed". That does not mean I can not be an advocate of non-circ...do some of you think otherwise? What would you say to those friends you have chosen to keep "because they didn't know better" on how to raise their boys?
Two analogies - if you're ever involved in any breastfeeding vs. formula feeding debates, you know how touchy those can get - no one wants to think they've potentially harmed their babies by not breastfeeding them, so many (obviously not all) FFers can get extremely defensive. This includes many women of older generations who didn't have the knowledge and support they needed to learn to BF, and after all their kids are "just fine" so they get upset with the "breast is best" advocacy because it makes them feel guilty.

But we KNOW that breastfeeding in all except an extremly rare handful of situations is biologically optimal, and that formula has health risks ranging from mild to severe (including SIDS). So as breastfeeding advocates we're not trying to make mothers who FF their kids feel guilty, we're trying to educate women who still have the choice to make to BF their present or future babies.

The point of circumcision education and advocacy is not to make circed boys and men feel "less than" (although many do and are extremely angry about their circs and are trying to restore). It is to help people who are still in a position to make the choice know that it does make a difference and that the only person who should be able to make the decision to cut off a normal part of the penis should be the owner of the penis.

Second analogy - female circumcision. In many cultures, female circ consists of removing the prepuce of the clitoris and the labia minora. All of which affects sex but not nearly to the extent that extreme female circ does. In almost all cultures that engage in female circ, you will get a LOT of women defending the practice on the grounds that "I'm circed and I enjoy sex, there's nothing wrong with me." Again, the point of trying to educate about female circ is to protect those (babies and girls) who are still intact, not trying to make adult women feel badly about themselves.

Bottom line -- although we need to be concerned with the feelings of those who were circed or were FFed, and nothing can change the past, the top priority has to be educating and advocating for the future so we don't keep on repeating past mistakes in order to spare the feelings of the circed. Their feelings are important, but not more important than the rights of every person, male or female, to make his or her OWN choices about his or her OWN body.

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#256 of 303 Old 06-11-2006, 04:21 PM
 
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I understand a bit of what your saying Quirky. I just tend to put a GREAT deal of emphasis on treating the the people in our lives with respect and admiration and blessings in any way shape or form. THAT is what makes people live with happiness. What is it that intact men should be acheiving that cut men cannot. My husband feels that he has acheived a happy sexual life. Why is that not enough? I think I have done a great deal of good talking with women openly about my experiences and how I have come to see circ as something that should be looked at a lot diffrently than it is! I come with kindness, not bitterness.I have neices and nephews who were FF and they are wonderful people, I was FF and I choose to look not how my life could have been better but how blessed I am for such wonderful, loving parents and how much good I have in my life. Some other posts imply that somehow my husband, who is blissfully happy, should start thinking of what MORE he could have had/experienced had he not been cut : Well, here lies a whole problem with soceity then. So he should just forget all this happyiness BS and become a pissed off male creature that is bitter towards his wonderful and kind mother who volunteers for a women's shelter 2x a week at age 65??? Wow, I ahould clue him in on how he really got the short end of the stick (ooooo - look at my pun!) It is coming across to the fact that only intact men can have healthy and productive reproductive/sexual lives and if you happen to be happy being cut then you need to be told otherwise. Does this not seem ludacris?

Again, because of some posts....I take this as healthy discussion, I'm learning a lot on how some people think, there are VAST diffrences in how folks see things and although I think it's crazy, I respect that there is a whole other side that thinks I'm just as nuts!
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#257 of 303 Old 06-11-2006, 04:35 PM
 
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Let's see; I think most of my points have been taken care of, but I do have a problem with anyone who says "My DH has a good sex life and he's circ'd" Too many people use this as an excuse to go ahead and mutilate their DSs.
My DH had an adequate sex life for many years, but as he gets older, we are noticing definite problems in that area. Mostly ones of inability to maintain an erection. From what I have read, this is more common in men who were circ'd as infants. Although I have no blind studies to back me up.

I don't think anyone here suggests making a point of telling your circ'd DH what he's missing out on. what I am saying for myself is that I cannot be friends with someone who gave permission for their DS to mutilated without his permission for purely cosmetic reasons. Any more that I could be friends with someone who slammed their infant up against a wall causing lifelong brain injuries...

and I am not crazy :
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#258 of 303 Old 06-11-2006, 04:36 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treefolk
Some other posts imply that somehow my husband, who is blissfully happy, should start thinking of what MORE he could have had/experienced had he not been cut :

Well, here lies a whole problem with soceity then. So he should just forget all this happyiness BS and become a pissed off male creature that is bitter towards his wonderful and kind mother who volunteers for a women's shelter 2x a week at age 65???

Wow, I ahould clue him in on how he really got the short end of the stick (ooooo - look at my pun!) It is coming across to the fact that only intact men can have healthy and productive reproductive/sexual lives and if you happen to be happy being cut then you need to be told otherwise
Eh, I don't think men need to be pissed off at their moms for being cut, for the most part-- it's important to acknowlege that most women had NO choice back in the days when my husband was cut. The mamas were knocked out on twilight sleep, the dads were in the waiting room, and even if that weren't the case, the docs-with-authority insisted that circ was necessary and beneficial.

But it's also important to me that men come to understand what a foreskin's functions are. If, by learning about what it is and why they have no business depriving their sons of it, they come to feel robbed, that is nobody's fault but the truth.

I don't tell my husband that he's "doomed" by being cut. I do explain that my objection to infant circumcision isn't just about "lack of medical necessity" (people do completely unnecessary stuff to their kids every day, lol) or about temporary pain (people do stuff that's painful to their kids every day, too.)

I object to circumcision almost solely on the basis of the longterm consequences to the act, and that unfortunately includes a lot of the problems we are experiencing right now.

As my beloved DH creeps up on 40, the effects become more and more pronounced; can I look at a woman who chose to do that to her son and not have my stomach turn with sickness both for the unimaginable torture her baby went through, and for the sorrows that await him down the road?

I still can't do it. The sickened sensation is too real for me to deny. Perhaps someday I will be like the Buddha and reach a place where I can look past this kind of thing, -- but for now, I can't really be close to someone who looks the other way on the issue.
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#259 of 303 Old 06-12-2006, 02:09 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treefolk
My husband feels that he has acheived a happy sexual life. Why is that not enough? I think I have done a great deal of good talking with women openly about my experiences and how I have come to see circ as something that should be looked at a lot diffrently than it is! I come with kindness, not bitterness.I have neices and nephews who were FF and they are wonderful people, I was FF. Some other posts imply that somehow my husband, who is blissfully happy, should start thinking of what MORE he could have had/experienced had he not been cut : Well, here lies a whole problem with soceity then.
For me, I've never approach this as a sexual issue but human rights issue. Human rights issue of a child.

Yes. I am sure your DH's sexlife has been a bliss but it does not take away the fact that most sensitive part of his body was taken away from him when he was helpless baby and in a very very cruel and painful way. When you think that act - how can you approach with kindness? Or approve it? Maybe I am horrible person but it is impossible for me to approach child abuse with loving kindness. And that's what circumcision is where I live - abuse.

No one is suggesting that your husband should change to a bitter monster or that you should cut ties with your DH's mother. But no matter how much she has volunteered in a shelter does not take away the fact that when your DH was a baby, he was tied down to a cold board and his genitals where literally crushed and sliced. It does not take away the fact that your husband can never experience sex (and neither do you)as nature intended. If we turned the table and think all the different forms of FGM ... would you advice circumcised women this way?

Past cannot be changed. To me the key is what parents are doing today. If someone support genital cutting of babies in today's world(after all the info is out there!)I could not be a friend of that person. The key is to end this vicious cycle.

And I don't know why you bring FF to this? Formula feeding and cutting child's genitals have nothing to do with each other.
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#260 of 303 Old 06-12-2006, 09:22 AM
 
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And I don't know why you bring FF to this? Formula feeding and cutting child's genitals have nothing to do with each other.
I brought that up as an analogy. See my post above. The point is, we should not stop advocating for intact babies because we might hurt the feelings of those who are circed and we should not stop advocating for breastfeeding because we might hurt the feelings of those who FF.

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#261 of 303 Old 06-12-2006, 10:27 AM
 
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Some other posts imply that somehow my husband, who is blissfully happy, should start thinking of what MORE he could have had/experienced had he not been cut : Well, here lies a whole problem with soceity then. So he should just forget all this happyiness BS and become a pissed off male creature that is bitter towards his wonderful and kind mother who volunteers for a women's shelter 2x a week at age 65???
Generally speaking, society does have a problem with this constant need for more. But I don't think that this manufactured need for more is the same as being aware of what was taken away, or the way nature intended one to be. If someone was circ'ed, they can't get that back, and if someone was FF, they can't change that either, but the constant excuses from the same society of wanting more about how it was good enough is baloney. Why is it okay to want the world for their children in education, love and happiness, but then to settle for what was good enough for other things? I don't think anyone should throw away their happpiness, but I do think that they need to be aware of things that should not have been. It's the good enough attitude that perpetuates the circ'ing and much of the supposed need for formula (read that to know that I am aware that there are people who have to use it, so don't bother flaming there, that's why I said much, not all ). So many people don't want admit that something in their life might not have been right, or perfect or whatever, so they end up defending it, instead admitting that there may have been a problem and educating others or atleast giving them a reason to question it and research it on their own.
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#262 of 303 Old 06-12-2006, 10:33 AM
 
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I have friends that I love dearly that had a circumcision done on at least one of their sons. I feel sad every time I see them, especially the ones that were done without anesthesia. But they didn't know any better. I need them in my life and I can't let it affect how I feel about them. It does in a way, but I don't let it rule me.
this is how I feel. I feel good though that I have changed a few of my friends' minds about circumcision, but I don't expect to change everyone's mind.
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#263 of 303 Old 06-12-2006, 10:40 AM
 
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Yes, I would.
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#264 of 303 Old 06-12-2006, 01:32 PM
 
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But it's also important to me that men come to understand what a foreskin's functions are. If, by learning about what it is and why they have no business depriving their sons of it, they come to feel robbed, that is nobody's fault but the truth.
A perfect point.
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#265 of 303 Old 06-12-2006, 02:20 PM
 
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I think it would depend on several factors, were they truly informed- I wasn't when I allowed xh to circ our son. If my friends did it with out information I would still be friends with them.
As a Christian, if they did it out of "religious conviction" I do not think I could be friends with them. Paul is pretty clear on the nessesity of circ.
Although I do not agree with it I think I could be friends with some one of another faith who did it for religious reasons. I do hope that one day it is illegal, but until then I cannot argue their religion.
But here's where I hope hope hope my sister never haves a boy. She and her husband mock religion, and are athiests, but they celebrate Jewish and Christian holidays for their cultural / historical significance. They said that if they ever had a boy they would do the 8th day ritual circ with a mohel. I will NOT ATTEND, and by doing so will offend my whole family. Keep praying that they have all girls, I'm a wimp and don't wanna go through losing my only sister!!!

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#266 of 303 Old 06-12-2006, 02:26 PM
 
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I think it would depend on several factors, were they truly informed- I wasn't when I allowed xh to circ our son. If my friends did it with out information I would still be friends with them.
As a Christian, if they did it out of "religious conviction" I do not think I could be friends with them. Paul is pretty clear on the nessesity of circ.
Although I do not agree with it I think I could be friends with some one of another faith who did it for religious reasons. I do hope that one day it is illegal, but until then I cannot argue their religion.
But here's where I hope hope hope my sister never haves a boy. She and her husband mock religion, and are athiests, but they celebrate Jewish and Christian holidays for their cultural / historical significance. They said that if they ever had a boy they would do the 8th day ritual circ with a mohel. I will NOT ATTEND, and by doing so will offend my whole family. Keep praying that they have all girls, I'm a wimp and don't wanna go through losing my only sister!!!


Why follow the Jewish Religion on this? the Christian Religion forbids Circumcising.

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#267 of 303 Old 06-12-2006, 02:28 PM
 
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Why follow the Jewish Religion on this? the Christian Religion forbids Circumcising.
Are you asking why my sister would? Or why I could be friends with a person of Jewish faith who circ'd and not one of Christian faith? As to the second question it is because I understand most aspects of Christianity and have studied it, I have not studied Judeism (Sp?)

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#268 of 303 Old 06-12-2006, 02:39 PM
 
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Are you asking why my sister would? Or why I could be friends with a person of Jewish faith who circ'd and not one of Christian faith? As to the second question it is because I understand most aspects of Christianity and have studied it, I have not studied Judeism (Sp?)

If your sister was an athiest, why choose one over the other? This can be continued in PM's if you like, dont wanna get the thread moderated.

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#269 of 303 Old 06-12-2006, 02:40 PM
 
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If your sister was an athiest, why choose one over the other?
Because she comes from a Jewish family presumably...
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#270 of 303 Old 06-12-2006, 02:44 PM
 
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Because she comes from a Jewish family presumably...
Would make no difference to a true Athiest, but I can't get into that here.

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