Jewish Circumcision - Mothering Forums

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Old 06-02-2006, 12:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Let us avoid discussing the spiritual side of this matter and focus instead upon the physical elements: the method used by Mohels to rob boys of their foreskin.

I read an informative website dedicated to advocating traditional Jewish circumcision, it stressed firmly that no clamps were used and this allowed for a swift and less painful procedure for the infant involved.

They did at least get this part half-right, they acknowledge (or at least suggest) the foreskin is packed full of nerve endings and then squeezing it tight in a vice would elict vast amounts of agony.

What they seem to miss is firstly that these nerve endings could provide pleasure and secondly that in addition to them the foreskin is also filled with veins and blood vessels. The result of slicing it off without proper caterisation is one that fascinated me in the most grim way possible: there can be no other possibility but profuse bleeding, the overall loss would have to be immense.

Could someone perhaps provide information on how such a flow is stemmed?

Furthermore there is the matter of anaesthetic, I have heard that although more progressive rabbis (although how much progress those still willing to perform such a procedure have made is questionable) have taken to using anaesthetic others still retain the ancient method of a sip of wine delivered to the infant prior to the ritual being completed.

I have never seen any evidence for this either being safe or effective, if you are feeling in a brave mood then perhaps attempt to stimulate it for yourself by downing a bottle of wine, tearing a thumbnail out of its bed and then impaling the digit with a knife, then removing the tip. Was it a painful experience?

I could be wrong, any scientific tests showing that small quantities alchohol can reduce pain substantially would be much appreciated. I live to learn.
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Old 06-02-2006, 01:16 PM
 
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religious circ will get moderated, might as well self moderate.

zero tolerance because we don't judge and put down peoples religion on MDC.


any form of it.


ps-I know because I attempted conversations like this when i first got here.

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Old 06-02-2006, 02:01 PM
 
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I can only say that in a panic, when ds pinched the tip of his foreskin bloody on the toilet, I offered him a sip of scotch & water (highly dilute, and probably close in proof to the wine offered babies in the ceremony), & he was not at all soothed or placated. To say the least.
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Old 06-02-2006, 02:15 PM
 
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I really don't think there's a point in even trying to discuss this. You aren't going to convince the Jewish parents who are committed to circ, and for the rest of us, you're just preaching to the choir.

And besides, Jewish circumcision is just a tiny fraction of the circumcisions going on in the world every year - Muslim circs FAR outnumber Jewish circs, because their numbers are so much huger. Then you have the American RICs, and all the other countries and cultures that circ later on even if not at birth - Korea, the Philippines, many African cultures, etc. I just don't think it does any good to single out Jewish circ as a target for reducing circs in the world. Let's focus on those we can really make a difference on and let change come from within the Jewish community if it's going to come. There are already a fair number of Jewish people refusing to circ and they are the only ones IMO who have the credibility to really effect change from within.

Besides, the pain angle has never been the most convincing argument not to circ in my mind. Because it is possible to provide decent anesthesia and acetominophen afterwards. And then what? You get parents thinking that it's fine to circ as long as they use anesthesia.

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Old 06-02-2006, 04:35 PM
 
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I bet this thread will be 'moved' in no time too...

Ilaria mamma to Owen, Caroline & Patrick .... loving life as expats in Asia intactlact.gifnovaxnocirc.gifuc.jpgnamaste.gif
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Old 06-02-2006, 07:56 PM
 
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You'll have to ask about religious circ on the religious studies board and BOY will you get flamed by the folks there (a la QotP fiasco where her thread got moved without her knowledge - she intended for it to be discussed here, but offended many Jews because she didn't use RS-board-appropriate terminology. Preaching to the choir terminology vs. preaching to the opposite viewpoint terminology. Wasn't her fault, but it was quite the flame fest).

So discuss it there, but keep in mind that there are many folks on the RS board who did circ for religious reasons... it'll just get moved if you start it here.

Besides Quirky is right. I'm definitely more interested in dispelling the RIC myths than in dispelling anyone's religion...

love and peace.

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: Circumcision can never be undone :
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Old 06-02-2006, 08:02 PM
 
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OOOOOOOH! You're going to get busted. Talking about religious circ is a major on MDC. It's sure to get by the mods soon.
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Old 06-02-2006, 08:16 PM
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*waves byebye to thread*

Long distance Mom to boarding school superstars E (9) and Layne (6).
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Old 06-02-2006, 08:31 PM
 
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It is really sad though that there is nowhere to talk about this. (I'm a Jewish mom of intact boys )
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Old 06-02-2006, 08:44 PM
 
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you can go to the religious discussion forum.


If you cross post here to 'point' us to the thread you create we can go in and chat too.


I don't frequent Religious forums because I believe they have a right to their religious beliefs. I know that would get me flamed but I really don't care. If they truly believe they will go to hell for not doing something, then they should probably do it and then when we all die we can find out who was right and wrong.


That is why this belongs in their forum, MDC takes the stance of freedom of religion but they also say 'stick to the religious forum' so fights don't break out in other areas.

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Old 06-02-2006, 08:47 PM
 
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Mara, !! I know there was a thread for Jewish parents who didn't circ or who were questioing circ in the "finding your tribe" forum.
I think it would be great to have a sub-forum here that was just for Jewish, Muslim (or any other religion that "requires" circ) parents that chose not to circ their sons or who are questioning religious circ. I actually think it is needed here.

OUR DAUGHTERS ARE PROTECTED SHOULDN'T OUR SONS BE TOO! :
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Old 06-02-2006, 10:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheacoby
I think it would be great to have a sub-forum here that was just for Jewish, Muslim (or any other religion that "requires" circ) parents that chose not to circ their sons or who are questioning religious circ. I actually think it is needed here.
Yes!!!!!!!!!!!

Kudos to you, Mara!!!

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Old 06-02-2006, 11:39 PM
 
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FYI and a little OT but, My dh and I are Jews who did not circ and I'm always so paranoid about the kids being naked around other Jewish kids...anyway, we were at a very upscale resort last Sunday and I was talking to this guy by the pool who had two boys my sons' ages and just before he left, his 3 yr old pulled his shorts off and was not circed and the dad seemed a little self-conscious of having his son naked there. i mentioned something to him a little awkwardly that we didn't do it either and he told me that they are Jewish and go to a Jewish school!!! I found this so reassuring as I always feel so alienated from the Jewish community and would never have considered sending my uncirced boys to a Jewish school fearing they would be too different. He was just an average guy and told me about the many Jews against circumcision...fascinating.

One more thing regarding preaching to the choir. The only way I was able to make an informed decision was reading input here and other places on the internet (at least that was my starting point) so while people may seem to argue ad naseum, look at the number of people reading a particular thread as a guage of the potential impact of your words. The minds of the posters may not be changed but certainly many others will.
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Old 06-02-2006, 11:41 PM
 
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Ooh, that sounds like a really good idea.

~*Kristi*~
Tallulah Dare 8-01,  Marcos Gael 12-04, Cormac Mateo 9-09, Leonidas Ronan 11-11

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Old 06-03-2006, 12:21 AM
 
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Please read the sticky thread regarding discussion of religious circumcision.

Discussion of religious circ is not hosted in this forum.

"To err is human, to forgive, canine." - Unknown
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