I just found MDC in May, what it has taught me is all the ramifications of circ. I never even thought about the sexual aspect (silly me) or much about the emotional aspect, just that it was unnecessary (since we're not Jewish) and painful. Like a pp said, MDC really has me wanting my dh to restore... Poor guy, it makes me want to shake his mother. : I wish I had been so much more outspoken to my friends....
My parents circd my older brother but my dad said it was the most horrible thing he had ever seen so they didn't circ the next 4 boys! I recently asked my 16 yr old brother if he felt weird about being intact and he looked at me like I had 6 heads and said heck no.
emergency medicine PA and single mother by choice
Mama, homeschooler, midwife. DD (13yo), DS (11yo), DD (8yo), DD (3yo), somebody new coming in November 2013.
Reading pregnancy books I was horrified that it was a routine thing done, I mean why? I was raised to believe the body is perfect just the way it is. Why would anyone amputate a part of their child's body?:
Anyway I've been pretty passionate about no-circ for a long time but I didn't know half the details until I came here. Now I have much better information to talk about with people other than that it is just plain WRONG.
I am so glad to have 2 intact sons and 6 intact nephews
mom to 3 home-born children, wife to a great guy
Originally Posted by eightyferrettoes
Makes you wonder things about medical industry, religion, power structures, violence, sex, tradition, that you would probably never think about otherwise. It's a big jumping-off point, I think.
Hell, I would never even have questioned the need for vaccination if not for the circ issue. Suddenly you're looking at the doc and thinking, "I'm supposed to trust you? And you told me circumcision was no big deal? Hmmm."
Wow, you've articulated that well.
Now, it has become the catalyst for a paradigm shift for me (and dh, who is an MD). We were always quick to question political, parental and workplace authority, but not medical/"scientific" authority.
Dh was shocked and felt betrayed when he realized what the medical establishment has done to baby boys, and how they've lied about the health "benefits" of circ. This realization made him question everything. As he practices medicine, he realizes more and more how much they don't know, and how much they're wrong about. He has become a bigger advocate of "evidence-based" medicine (when the research is well done), and "do no harm".
For me, it also became a way to frame the parent/child relationship. It highlighted the fact that our children do not belong to us.
Mama to DS (8) and DD (7) Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of Buddhism is not "Every man for himself." And the London Underground is not a political movement.
I told dh that I would respect his opinion as the father (he's circumsized)but that he was GOING to watch this video, and he would be alone with the baby during the circumcision. I left the room when he watched the video, and got kind of hysterical because I had totally just lied to my dh. I realized that I wanted his input, but it had better be a no-circ input.
Thankfully, it was and we never had an issue.
The circ issue was one of those things that pretty much made me not fit in on the mainstream boards I visited, and that sort of led me here.
I came on at one point at a midpoint of my research and logged in a screen name. I DID read the 'regrets' thread and browsed the CAC forum. The regrets thread had a POWERFUL impact on me.
I got busy, did most of my research on the boards where I started ( ivillage) and through google and forgot where this forum was. But I remembered the regrets thread. I also remember Frank came and answered a question I had on the other forum, and I recognized him from here-- and thought that was really neat that this 'expert' answered my question. I was also fortunate that there were several non-mainstream mommas on the mainstream board I was on- and the circ debates there were often powerful, too.
It is the one thing that came back to me over and over, that I would HAVE to see my choice at EVERY diaper change and I was pretty sure that I would be distraught by giving in-- even though my dh wanted to follow this for religious reasons.
I will say that my dh never used ANY 'excuse'-- his reasons were based on Jewish tradition. He wasn't open to TALKING about the issue, but he NEVER used an excuse such as medical, hygeine, or looking like daddy. He did think I was making a big deal out of a simple thing, but at least when I could get him to talk about it, did understand that I was worried and concerned about many things-- and got that there ARE risks- and serious ones at that. He pretty much never worries about things so it wasnt a surprise that he would just assume that 'our son' would get through it fine-- even though he would acknowledge that there were risks. That is just the way his is about everything-- and it drives me crazy sometimes.
I wish I had been here more because I would have gotten clearer answers faster, although I'm very appreciative of the process I went through. I just missed many issues... like how sexually damaging circ is, how it might be affecting my dh, and parallels to FGM. HOw ingrained inthe culture it is. And a lot of the subtlties about religious circ. So when I found the board after ds was born I continued (and continue) to learn a lot.
I feel so strongly that the regrets thread is very very powerful and every one who speaks up and admits that they made a mistake (or never knew they could choose something else, etc) really HAS made a difference. Not just for me, but I know for many other mothers that read their stories.
I cried so many times while I read them.... and those stories would haunt me while I held my newborn son when the question was still unanswered.....
For example, I DID cave in at one point, due more to exhaustion adn the fear that I was letting my emotions overwhelm my logic when my son was 5 days old. This was after sitting in the car after a dr's appt (he was losing too much wait, bf'ing was going poorly, I was definatly ppd, and dh was not on board in MANY ways, due to his own overwhelmment (sorry about the wording, but it works). The pedi had told us we needed to decide about circ by the time ds was 2 weeks, so I brought the subject up on the way hom. After pouring my heart out in hysterics, my dh FINALLY told me he understand my concerns after MONTHS of argueing. I told him that I wanted to be able to honor his tradition, but that it just felt so wrong. I told him that after months of me thinking that he jsut thought I was stupid it was a relief to hear that he understood where I was coming from. Adn he did tell me that he always understood where I was comign from but our conversations were jsut so awful always.... just another example of our communication skills that need to be worked on.
We ended by saying that we both didn't know WHAT to do- I didn't want to deny him a ritual if it REALLY meant something to him (keep in mind HE doesn't attend services or keep rituals) and he didn't want to do something that I foudn so upsetting. Yet dh never was able to express HOW the ritual was important to him-- and I shared with him Bris Shalom (the ritual without the cutting).
Dh did say that he was uncomfortable making the decision to circ knowing that how I felt. I said that I was uncomfortable making the decision knowing how he felt. I ended by saying that if we did circ he'd have to find a mohel willing to use pain relief and call and make the appointments himself- and know that I would make myself go with ds and that would destroy me. I wasn't trying to be harsh, but that was what I felt and it was somewhat of a cave-in even if it wasn't totally one.
In the end, our pedi had told us we needed to make a decision by 2 weeks. My dh never brought it up again (and I didn't). But the second my dh left the car after I had said that I looked at my son and KNEW there was NO way I could actually follow through with it. I remembered the regrets thread and held my son in the car and cried for a long time and vowed I would take back my words. It never came to that, but I spent many a moment during the next week crying and remembering those words.
No wonder my blood pressure didn't come down for 6 weeks post delivery.... (I had been on bedrest due to pih 2 weeks before ds was born)... certainly not the stress I would wish on anyone- but even with the risk to my health and sanity, fighting for my son's rights was worth it (IS worth it).
Dh, Joshua Rebeccaand . for Laura
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