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Old 07-12-2006, 12:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hello everyone,

I've lurked here in the past to try and learn about circ. I know that if I was to ever have a son, he'd not be circ'd. My dh (who is circ'd) on the other hand, doesn't quite know. We are due with our 3rd baby at the end of the month, we don't know what it'll be, and so far, we have 2 dd's, so we've not had to deal with this issue.

At first, he said no, b/c there was no medical need for it, but now he's been listening to a show called Loveline (it's on tv or the radio) and has heard a few intact men call in and say that when they have sex, it is painful for them; they feel like pins are being stuck in them and they have bleeding afterwards. The dr on the show tells them that it's just going to get worse and they're going to have to be circ'd. So now, b/c of this, my dh is not real sure what to do. Does anyone know what these men are experiencing, how common is it, why does it happen? What info can I show my dh about this?

Thanks for your help!!

Jessica, dizzy.gifmom to 3 little ladiesjumpers.gif and babygirl.gif babyboy.gif twins who can't figure out where her avatar came from.

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Old 07-12-2006, 12:34 PM
 
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Never heard of that. The loveline woman seems biased toward circ, if you ask me. How is it that "all these women" happen to call in with this weird "pins and needles" thing? How can that be a normal way sex is supposed to be?
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Old 07-12-2006, 12:36 PM
 
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Sorry, I don't know about Loveline. BUT - google "botched circumcision." Read him all the stories of men who are angry because their sex lives are difficult, painful, or nonexistant because of botched circumcisions. That might change his mind. Good luck.
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Old 07-12-2006, 12:49 PM
 
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I don't know...possibly phimosis? Phimosis can be avoided with proper care of your son's penis...which basically means no special attention. The foreskin is adhered to the glans (head) like a fingernail is adhered to the nail bed. When the foreskin is forcibly retracted, it's torn from the glans. This will cause pain and sometimes bleeding. The foreskin will then adhere back to the glans, but scar tissue forms. That scar tissue will prevent the foreskin from being fully retracile. There are different degrees of phimosis, some more extreme than others...from what I've observed. Somebody here posted a link to a page with tons of pictures....it's rather agonizing to see the real extreme cases...the ones that are not fixable.

Revamp, I'm sure he will chime in, was able to fix his phimosis without any medical care.

The problem is, pediatricians will tell you that you need to keep your son's penis "clean" by retracting the foreskin and washing it. Before I knew any better, the very first ped that saw my son gently retracted his foreskin, and I did so myself maybe twice....before I realized here was no need to. Thankfully he never showed any signs of irritation...no redness or swelling of any kind.....however, .he did that himself from diddling with it so much.

Stick around here...ask lots of questions. I have learned more here in the past few months...and I thought I knew all I needed to know!
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Old 07-12-2006, 12:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Nathan1097
Never heard of that. The loveline woman seems biased toward circ, if you ask me. How is it that "all these women" happen to call in with this weird "pins and needles" thing? How can that be a normal way sex is supposed to be?
Actually, he's a man...Dr. Drew. The show has been on KROQ since the 80's. I used to listen to it for years! Also, it's *men* calling in to comlplain about the pain, not women. (according to the op)
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Old 07-12-2006, 01:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by frenchie
Revamp, I'm sure he will chime in, was able to fix his phimosis without any medical care.
You know me way too well...

Yes, phimosis is easily curable through methods devoid of operations or medications, I know this from first hand experience. Literally.

It sounds likely that those men were suffering from phimosis or frenulum breve, the first is when the foreskin can not fit around the glans and is easily curable as I mentioned before except in the most severe cases where your son might have to use steroid creams or have an operation named a prepuplastory where the skin is stretched out, the second is basically when the frenulum, which is a band or tag of skin that connects the foreskin to the glans just like the one in your mouth that connects your lips to your gums and tongue to your mouth-bed, is a little or much too short.

That does not require a circumcision either! An operation named a frenuplastory can easily cure it by extending aforementioned organ to an adequete length.

Those are the only conditions which could be causing these men's woes that I know of and neither require a circumcision. The show's presenter/doctor is presumably circumcised and ill-informed, ignorant and perhaps incompetant.
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Old 07-12-2006, 01:31 PM
 
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I am not sure what the medical problem is with these callers, but circumcision does not have to be the FIRST line of treatment. It most certainly shouldn't be employed as a preemtive treatment either. That is just way too aggressive.

And for the Dr. to suggest that...is nothing short of irresponsible! Doctors are extremely divided on circ. (and the ones who support it, IMO, like the extra cash that it brings). It sounds like he is listening to a pro-circ doctor! Ask him to turn the station to a show where there is an anti-circ doctor giving advice. He may find the 'recommendations' very different! ALWAYS get a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th opinion and preferabally from a no circ doc! Here are some right here:

http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org/

Consenting to the removal of your son's foreskin is invasive and aggressive and you would be making your decision based on an 'assumption' from the mouth of a pro-circ fiend who either profits nicely off of babyskins or is uneducated about the purpose and function of the male foreskin. Relax. Your son to be wont be having sex for a very long time...so if by some small chance he does encounter this problem, let HIM be the one to decide what forms of treatment he might like to pursue. It should always be HIS choice to keep or disgard part of his body...and he will rightfully have that choice when he becomes sexually active.

A circumcision may not be necessary even if he does encounter this problem, there are many ways to treat common penile problems without employing the most aggressive measure of circ. Please "do not throw the baby out with the bathwater".

kathleen
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Old 07-12-2006, 01:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by frenchie
Actually, he's a man...Dr. Drew. The show has been on KROQ since the 80's. I used to listen to it for years! Also, it's *men* calling in to comlplain about the pain, not women. (according to the op)
Oh! I got the people mixed up. There's a woman on Discovery Health as well who does a relationship call-in show. I know who Dr. Drew is. That's weird then- he has a new show on sex ONLY and for him to recommend circ.... I guess we know that he's circ'd, huh?
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Old 07-12-2006, 01:40 PM
 
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Two theories of the loveline talk

One a couple of guys with or w/o foreskin could be making a exaggerated problem to see what kind of knowledge that person has or as in to make fun of it by giggling at the answers afterwards

Two a young kid who is has first started to 'retract' while proably have a first 'sexual experience at the time of starting to retract ' like the first time of beginning 'gliding motion ' that could be weird/sore if it never done that before. A chance of forcible 'retraction' that was continous that may have caused some 'acquired phimosis'

If any kid as in teenager sixten & older that end up having 'true phimosis' there are 'stretching methods', steriod creams, or dorsal slit .
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Old 07-12-2006, 01:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Actually, he's a man...Dr. Drew. The show has been on KROQ since the 80's. I used to listen to it for years! Also, it's *men* calling in to comlplain about the pain, not women. (according to the op)
That is correct!! I'll have to show my dh this thread and hopefully he'll come around.

Thanks!!

Jessica, dizzy.gifmom to 3 little ladiesjumpers.gif and babygirl.gif babyboy.gif twins who can't figure out where her avatar came from.

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Old 07-12-2006, 01:50 PM
 
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Your husband wants to chop off part of his penis because of a few anonymous guys calling in to a radio show??? WOW! You should seriously get him to sit down and think about the logic in that.

Son: "Dad, why did you get me circumcised? My glans is all dried out and my skin is very tight when I have an erection. It takes me very long to orgasm and my girlfriend doesn't like the vigorous pounding."
Dad: Well some guys on a radio show called in once saying they didn't like being intact so I thought I'd just assume that you would also have future problems being intact and make the decision for you to chop off part of your penis. Yup, pretty sure those radio show guys knew exactly what they were talking about."

Anyway, the difference is, the men calling in are adults and can make the decision for themselves whether or not they want to get circumcised. Why would your husband want to make that decision for his infant son on the slim chance he might have a problem? Let the penis owner decides what he wants to do with his penis. It is much more likely that your son will NOT have any problems and your husband will have agreed to cut of part of his penis for NOTHING. And like others have said, it's likely these men could have their issues solved WITHOUT circumcision.

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Old 07-12-2006, 01:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MommytoB
'stretching methods'


I love euphamisms...
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Old 07-12-2006, 02:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ColoradoMama
BUT - google "botched circumcision." Read him all the stories of men who are angry because their sex lives are difficult, painful, or nonexistant because of botched circumcisions.
VERY, VERY good point!! I would say that's been my experience.

Whatever these intact men are experiencing can't be a common problem. Just think about it, the penis was designed to be a pleasurable sex organ. If that weren't the case, we would cease to exist.

I have sometimes read of younger intact teens/men complaining of basically two things, phimosis and hypersensitivity (described as almost painful initially) when they do first become retractable. But they are really more developmental in nature than "problems" and DO improve over time.

As Revamp has demonstrated, some stretching exercises will usually fix the developmental phimosis. The tougher cases would be what I believe is called pathological phimosis, where the foreskin has been damaged and become non-elastic with scar tissue. This is almost always the result of bad, outdated medical advice to retract (prematurely) and clean on a regular basis. I suspect this is often the case with phimosis "problems" in the US because of the ignorance of the intact penis. :

The hypersensitivity issue will resolve itself over a few months time with regular exposure. For teens or young men in a hurry, it can seem like a "problem." But what seems like sensisitivity = sensation later on.....something they will be glad to have in the long haul.

FWIW, I would have much rather dealt with an uncommon, naturally-arising situation than had problems CAUSED by something that didn't need to be done.
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Old 07-12-2006, 02:46 PM
 
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I have been intact for 57 years and have had sex thousands of times and never have I incountered problems as described like that. I don't believe much of anything I hear on call in shows because it is to easy to have "set up" calls which are done to promote the belief of the show host most of the time. Take it from someone who knows first hand if this is truly a man calling in with a problem like that he really does have a medical problem but circ should not be the first and only answer. "Yep" the show host is circed and thinks avery male in the world should be also, I feel sorry for him. I just wished that he could feel the things that I feel during sex his mind would change in a hurry.
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Old 07-12-2006, 03:30 PM
 
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Dr Drew is incredibly wishy-washy when it comes to circumcision. I remembered that he was from some previous link here, so I googled it. HTH:

http://www.drdrew.com/article.asp?id=496

He manages to be both a proponant and detractor of each "side" equally. If I were looking for actual info, that answer would make me more confused than ever : . It's just chock full of non-info, but non-info that sounds horrible and frightening. I'd be scared to even HAVE a penis, intact or not, after reading that thing.

Really, he should have just answered "NO." and been done with it : .


Isn't he a spokesperson for some impotancy med?
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Old 07-12-2006, 06:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by InDaPhunk
Dr Drew is incredibly wishy-washy when it comes to circumcision. I remembered that he was from some previous link here, so I googled it. HTH:

http://www.drdrew.com/article.asp?id=496

He manages to be both a proponant and detractor of each "side" equally. If I were looking for actual info, that answer would make me more confused than ever : . It's just chock full of non-info, but non-info that sounds horrible and frightening. I'd be scared to even HAVE a penis, intact or not, after reading that thing.

Really, he should have just answered "NO." and been done with it : .


Isn't he a spokesperson for some impotancy med?

Wow... That felt like I was reading a blamanche. Just try reading some of that stuff out loud... It sounds like a jellyfish being dropped from a great height onto a concrete floor.

He started with this line: "This is a huge controversy that continues to rage in this country." which is basically a euphamism for "If I take too strong a stance either way I am probably going to get lynched so I will just ramble on with some double-speak until I have filled up 500 words or so..."

I can appreciate why but that was not really worth reading.
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Old 07-12-2006, 07:20 PM
 
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Old 07-12-2006, 07:49 PM
 
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ok, if this was any other operation.


Such as a Tonsilectomy, or the removal of the appendix...


Would your husband just say 'well, it may cause issues in the future so lets take it out within a week of being born?'

probably not. This is the fear factor, use logic.....

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Old 07-12-2006, 07:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Yoshua
ok, if this was any other operation.


Such as a Tonsilectomy, or the removal of the appendix...


Would your husband just say 'well, it may cause issues in the future so lets take it out within a week of being born?'

probably not. This is the fear factor, use logic.....
Hi Yoshua! Good to "see" you!
Back on topic - except that circumcision is cosmetic.
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Old 07-12-2006, 08:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ColoradoMama
Hi Yoshua! Good to "see" you!
Back on topic - except that circumcision is cosmetic.

The premise is that he is attempting to avoid a surgery later for problems that do not exist today.


Not all circumcisions are cosmetic, but their nessesity is always in question.

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Old 07-12-2006, 08:09 PM
 
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I have read that the first time a man has sex it can cause bleeding. I think it is kinda like when a woman has sex for the first time. Sounds natural to me and definatly no reason to think that a baby needs circed to prevent it : The ones I read about said once it healed it was more stretchy. Also if it is a frenulum issue that can be easily fixed like a pp mentioned with a simple surgery that does NOT include circ of any kind.

 
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Old 07-12-2006, 08:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MRDCatLvr
I have read that the first time a man has sex it can cause bleeding. I think it is kinda like when a woman has sex for the first time. Sounds natural to me and definatly no reason to think that a baby needs circed to prevent it : The ones I read about said once it healed it was more stretchy. Also if it is a frenulum issue that can be easily fixed like a pp mentioned with a simple surgery that does NOT include circ of any kind.
Well the bleeding first time thing is a little different...

Women have a hymen which, if not broken before as it often is, can snap during sex and bleed. Men have no such construct although perhaps the frenulum might.
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Old 07-12-2006, 08:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Yoshua
The premise is that he is attempting to avoid a surgery later for problems that do not exist today.
I get it - I'm just saying it's even worse because a burst appendix can kill you. I've never known of a man dying because he was intact, KWIM? And while some circumcisions are "medical" - RIC is cosmetic IMO.

That whole "fix" it now before there's a "problem" later just kills me. I'm not going to have my daughters' breasts chopped off to prevent breast cancer, and something like 1 in 7 or 1 in 8 women statistically get breast cancer.
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Old 07-12-2006, 08:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Lara vanÆsir
:Puke I think you might want to put a graphic image warning on that one!

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Old 07-12-2006, 09:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ColoradoMama
I get it - I'm just saying it's even worse because a burst appendix can kill you. I've never known of a man dying because he was intact, KWIM? And while some circumcisions are "medical" - RIC is cosmetic IMO.

That whole "fix" it now before there's a "problem" later just kills me. I'm not going to have my daughters' breasts chopped off to prevent breast cancer, and something like 1 in 7 or 1 in 8 women statistically get breast cancer.

I understand that.

But she wants ways to help the situation. That is why I listed what I did. What I listed debunks that thought process. Someone who thinks there is a possible clinical problem does not understand that those 'clinical' problems do not need a circ.

You have to find a way to circumvent that argument. Not just call them an idiot. Which honestly they ARE being because of the fear factor, but it just isnt nice to point that out to them.

KWIM?

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Old 07-12-2006, 09:04 PM
 
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OT It's 'blancmange'. (And I enjoyed hear Dr Drew described as one .)

PS We just call it 'pudding'. Your pud & our pud (and pud means something entirely different over here, btw) are not alike. But people who eat Spotted Dick can't really complain if I tease them about their 'pud'.

Sorryto be pedantic, but I have a sneaking suspician that like I, you might prefer being corrected than living your life spelling 'blancmange' incorrectly.
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Old 07-12-2006, 10:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Yoshua
I understand that.

But she wants ways to help the situation. That is why I listed what I did. What I listed debunks that thought process. Someone who thinks there is a possible clinical problem does not understand that those 'clinical' problems do not need a circ.

You have to find a way to circumvent that argument. Not just call them an idiot. Which honestly they ARE being because of the fear factor, but it just isnt nice to point that out to them.

KWIM?
I'm not arguing with you - I'm agreeing with you! I just added my POV to yours! I think it's a good train of thought, and definitely one to present to many people.
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Old 07-12-2006, 10:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by TechnoGranola
:Puke I think you might want to put a graphic image warning on that one!
Gotcha
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Old 07-13-2006, 12:52 AM
 
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Originally Posted by TigerTail
OT It's 'blancmange'. (And I enjoyed hear Dr Drew described as one .)

PS We just call it 'pudding'. Your pud & our pud (and pud means something entirely different over here, btw) are not alike. But people who eat Spotted Dick can't really complain if I tease them about their 'pud'.

Sorryto be pedantic, but I have a sneaking suspician that like I, you might prefer being corrected than living your life spelling 'blancmange' incorrectly.
OT: blancmange / n. a sweet, opaque, gelatinous dessert made with flavoured cornflower and milk. Mmm...I used to love it as a little boy.

Pudding: yet another example of "two nations divided by a common language"!
But then, I think Americans delight in corrupting the English language. We use the term 'pudding' in a very general sense (unless it's used as in Bread and Butter Pudding, for example). "Hey Mum, what's for pudding?"

Loved your Spotted Dick comment, by the way!

May I sneakingly suspect that you'd like me to correct your spelling of 'suspicion'?

Christopher

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Old 07-13-2006, 12:56 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Lara vanÆsir

Maybe these men have some mild form of phimosis? Then they need to masturbate. Now if any man would have a choice..... have this happen to their penis (I got this off a pro-circ website btw.) http://www.icon.co.za/~hugot/circum/images/Bud2.jpg : Graphic
Yeah, that's pretty much what removing "the foreskin" does to a penis! My site has a similar picture of a similar technique ("freehand") but on a newborn.
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