Dialogue to Intact's video- what they say in it. (See: "Graphic Circ Video" thread) - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 36 Old 07-14-2006, 10:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
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In the other thread- Graphic Circ Video- I mentioned something the doctor says- "He's gotten himself upset...".

For a while now- years actually- I've been meaning to write down just what is said in this video, as its not always easy to tell.

Well, that's what I've done tonight and let me tell you- while I've seen this video umpteen times, knowing exactly what the dialogue is makes it so much worse!! The doctor keeps lying to the father and the father, meanwhile, seems to get more ill-at-ease with his decision, though he does not at any time try to stop the operation.

Jennie

Edited to Add: Here is the link to the video itself: http://www.intact.ca/vidphil.htm
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#2 of 36 Old 07-15-2006, 01:09 AM
 
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so did you write it down? Care to share?

Laura

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#3 of 36 Old 07-15-2006, 01:13 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sijae
so did you write it down? Care to share?

Laura
Yeah I did and its NEARLY finished- just a minute or two left- but I got a phone call and now I'm just tired! So I'll finish tomorrow I guess. I'm still not sure if I'd be allowed to share it- but I guess its not the video itself, which is available for free anyway, right?
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#4 of 36 Old 07-15-2006, 08:27 AM
 
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I would be really interested to hear this, I would listen myself for it but that video apparently involves a lot of screaming and circumcision screams haunt me so I refuse to view or listen to it.
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#5 of 36 Old 07-15-2006, 09:41 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Yeah its crying and screaming throughout the video- that's why its not so easy to tell what they're saying. In fact, now that I've written it down, there are a few times when the doctor says to the dad "What?" because of the baby but also because the dad is kind of quiet when he talks, too.

Oh and by the way- I have now watched this video rewound and backed it up and stopped it for 2 hours+ so y'all can thank me for enduring the torture for you. (No, you really don't have to! But dang- its so much worse watching that when you know what they're saying!)
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#6 of 36 Old 07-15-2006, 10:05 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Transcription of what is said during the Circumcision Video of Intact.ca from 1998.


Doctor [drawing on paper next to the empty Circumstraint, and talking to the baby's father before the operation begins]: This is the penis itself... in the final look, there's a little groove and then there's the actual head of the penis like this, right? (Uh, its a little to big for this diagram...)

Father: Right...

Doctor: But basically, the foreskin comes all the way along here right over the top...

Father: Mmm-hmm

Doctor: ...and up like that. You're gonna take it back to about here.

Father: Okay.

Doctor: So. This is the natural skin, when we're all finished;

Father: Mm-hmm.

Doctor: This is healed where the skin was taken away; and this is completely one line, completely free.

Father: Okay. Okay.

Doctor: If that was your question...

Father. Yeah. Yeah. That's... that's what I want. [Laughs nervouslyl.]

Doctor: Okay? Alright! That's what you're gonna get!

Father: Yeah okay, good...

Doctor: We're gonna set 'im down right here.... [Undoing the straps of the Circumcstraint.]

Father, [to the doctor:] He's all yours....[to his son:] C'mere my boy....

Doctor [To the father :] He's GROWN!

Father: Yeah.

Doctor: Look at the size, eh!?

Father: Oh my!

Doctor [putting the baby in the Circumstraint]: Look at him! He is... [baby begins to cry] Now, you'll notice, that he was nice and quiet - he's already fussy. Why? Maybe he doesn't want to be in this position, maybe he doesn't want to move his arms or his legs. You'll find th at one of the things that they most don't like is being unable to move. Cuz, their legs are normally flexed, right? And what we do is we take their legs out and we put 'em in a position- see how much he's reisiting me just now?

Father: Right. Right....

Doctor: And as soon as he realizes that he can't move that he gets all... He IS getting chubby! Let's put his sox on....

Father: He's gained, uh, seven ounce now... [Baby cries again as the doctor straps his legs down.]

Doctor: See? If you were standing outside the door, and you hear that, you'd say 'Oh my goodness! What's happening?'"

Father: Yeah- 'what is that?'

Doctor: [Opening up the baby's diaper] Oh, he's actually... a good size! Now. Of course, we check that the penis is fully normal, right? We also check and make sure both testicles are okay. (We've checked this before on him.) But, he's a little bit pudgy here and I'll show you what I mean by 'pudgy'. [Baby cries again.] Now we've done nothing to him. LISTEN to him! And that's important because everybody gets all excited about how they...

Father: Is it okay if I put this in? [Referring to a pacifier/soother]

Doctor: Sure! By all means. By all means.

Father: Quiet him down a bit... [To his son:] Okay. son, okay....

Doctor; Alright. So, the first thing we do...

Father: [To the baby} Go to sleep... Go to sleep. Go to sleep....

Doctor [Putting Betadine, an anti-infectant, on the baby's penis and scrotum]; Now this doesn't burn on anything. Also just the wetness alone will get them all excited here. [Baby cries again]

Father: Okay son. Okay....

Doctor: But, If he's quiet and doesn't move his legs, he's quiet. You watch the hands and legs! (They hate this....)

[Baby begins to scream, then shriek as two needle-nosed glamps are closed on the opening of his foreskin, a bigger clamp is inserted into the foreskin's opening, and the foreskin is torn away from the penile head.]

Doctor: What we've done here is we've completely separated all of the skin from the head of the penis- you can see the outline of the head of the penis, right?

Father: Yeah...

Doctor: So we've taken the skin right down, here, right? Right down to that level we talked about.

Father [to the baby]: Okay. Okay... okay....

[The doctor makes the dorsal crush with the flat hemostats. As the baby begins to shriek over and over.]

Father: Is that the anesthetic?

Doctor: What?

Father: Is that the anesthetic, or?

Doctor: No that, that just crimps the whole thing.

[The baby begins to choke on spit in his throat while still shrieking- "gargling"]

Doctor; We'll let that sit for just a moment. K? What we could do is release his arms... [The doctor undoes the baby's arms from the velcro straps.] So he feels less.... [Baby continues to scream higher and higher.]

Father: I was aware that you'd use an anesthetic.

Doctor: What?

[The doctor makes the dorsal slit along the crush line with a pair of scissors.]

Father: I was aware that you'd uh use an anesthetic?

Dcotor: We mix into the mixure here...

Father: Okay.

Doctor: And that just takes the edge off it, okay? And uh...

Father: [To his baby] Okay, son....

[The baby continues to shriek and choke as the foreksin is laid back off the glans.. and the doctor wipes the blood from the glans with a piece of gauze, until there is no sound heard from him until he gasps and resumes shrieking and choking]

Father: 'I need your help'

Doctor: [In a soothing tone to the father.] Alright. We'll settle him down. [Baby's still sputtering.]

Father: [Neverously] Okay. No problem. No problem.

[The doctor assembles the Gomco clamp over glans and pulls the foreskin through the plate and over the bell with tweezers as the baby chokes and chokes and screams!]

Doctor: [To the father] Oh, he's gotten himself upset. [To the baby] I think Dadd'ys getting excited! Its okay Dad. We'll be okay....

[The baby continues to shriek and choke as the rocker arm is assembled on the Gomco clamp and the nut is tightened.]

[The baby keeps choking.]

Doctor: Nice big swallow he had there.

Father: Yeah

Doctor: ...now he got it out.

Doctor: We'll just let him sit a little bit.

Father: You're okay. You're okay.... Okay son. Okay..... Okay... Its almost done. Okay....

[The baby continues a bleating cry, alternating with occasional shrieks, while finally the foreskin is cut off in a circular motion with a scalpel against the bell of the clamp.]

[The baby stops crying and begins a quick, raspy panting as the ring of detached foreskin is cut off with scissors.]

Doctor: Okay now we let him sit for a little second.

[The doctor gets out some petrolium jelly.]

Father: Mmm-hmmm

Doctor: Just so that uh... what it does is stop all- any potential for bleeding. Okay? So he's sitting there with the clamp on... and he seems to be... reLAXING a little bit! So we let him sit for a few minutes and that's it. [Baby still is panting loudly through his nose.] And uh, there's a drop or two here and a drop or two here- and that's your total blood-loss.

Father: Mm-kay.

Doctor: Actually, at this point, what I do normally is go through the instructions with the parents cuz t gives a chance for that. So all we're gonna do is we're gonna change the diapers frequently, simply to keep the stool and the urine away from the area...

Father: Right.

Doctor:...- something that you'd do anyway; you'd be changing him frequently. The big trick [the baby begins a plaintive cry.] is large amounts of Vaseline to that area.

Father: Okay.

Doctor: Okay? And this prevents the penis from sticking to the diaper.

Father: Right.

Doctor. So each diaper change, just a great big glob. Now I put it on a piece of gauze here- just some people lift it into place, but when you're changing him, you can put it directly onto the penis, okay?

Father: Okay... [The father continues with various "Mmm -hmm's" and "Okay..." 's and "Rights"...as the doctor continues his explaination.]

[The baby still is crying and complaining off and on with the clamp still on his penis.]

Doctor: If he DOES soil himself with stool all over the cut area, right? You're gonna wash with a warm water, but you're not gonna use any soap until its heal cuz the soap will be hurting, right? You're also not going to rub it hard- just to remove the stuff, right? And the child remains, you know, settled on... comforatable or whatever his normal position is- usually on the back, right? After a few days or so, there's a white-yellowish, yellow tissue- like you burnt something? If you've ever burnt yourself or grazed yourself, you have this scab-like material that forms? Do not attempt to rub that off; its a normal part of the healing process, okay?

And then, the healing itself usually takes about 3, 4, 5 days, and at that point, after about 3 days or so, they can go straight into the bath. K? You don't want to dump him into the bath while he still has the open cut, right? Here's an important point, it says - "Keep the skin down"- This is particulary importnat point for HIM, because [Baby's Name] has- ummm ... uh.... he's kinda chubby in that area. So what happens is- is we've removed the skin to here- there's quite a bit of fat around the base here and sometimes what happens is the skin will push up over the head of the penis. So today or tomorrow while its still MOVEable -It won't be moveable AFTER that- but today and tomorrow you just watch- and you make SURE that it stays at the level it is. It should. It should. Just in case is does go up, we take the four tingers [uses the thumb and index finger of each of his hands as he demonstrates in the air] and push that skin down to its normal position so it HEALS at the level we want it to. Okay? That's what we mean by "Keep the skin down" over here. And once he's completely healed, there's no special, you know- ANYthing! - just wash and bathe as normal. You don't have to retract to clean cuz there's nothing there!

Ummm. ... I've never had an infection, but I have to tell you about it. Obviously if you have a foul odor or puss draining from that area or it gets all red, there's a possibility that there is an infection. Uh, what CAN happen at times is excessive or ongoing bleeding. Umm... Again: Its not something that happens USUALLY. Uh, you can apply a little bit of a cloth with some pressure; that usually stops it; if you can't stop it, it needs attention. And there shouldn't be any problem with him passing urine immediately after the procedure. So you'll know from that he's passing urine. This will go with you- [he hands him the instruction sheet he was just reading from[. so you don't have to remember ANY of that and we'll give him just a minute more and we'll take that off and you'll- you see that its the way you want it to be.

Father: So... there WAS some form of anesthetic...?

Doctor: A topical sort of things, yeah., yeah.

Father: Okay...

Doctor: Not MUCH- it just takes the edge off. And you see he's sitting with the clamp on, munching away.

Father; Mmm-hmm...

Doctor: Now, there's a big debate, of course, about injections or others or whatnot... Its been done for thousands and thousands of years without ANYthing and it doesn't seem to be a problem.

Father [laughing nervously]: Yeah....

Doctor: Although, there's some recent research that comes out CLAIMING that there's... you know... [sarcastically quoting] "irreVERSEable damage done!'....So there's a LOT of people with a LOT of irreversable damange running around!
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#7 of 36 Old 07-15-2006, 10:06 AM - Thread Starter
 
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[Father laughs nervously again.]

Doctor: I don't quite buy into that. [Father continues laughing.]

Doctor: But we can do it with a clamp or without a clamp... freehand... We can do it with or without FULL anesthetic; some people are even saying "anesthetize the whole bottom part of the body"... And some people are saying it doesn't really make a whole lot of difference. The big thing is tying him down. Once he's relaxed, nothing; you take a normal baby and they're not gonna be happy.

Doctor: There IS pain.

Father: Yeah, I guess so.

Doctor: There IS pain- but its very transient... As you can see, he's still sitting here with the clamp; he seems to settle quiet nicely. And I don't think he's exhausted, because as soon as I start moving, he's gonna start making noise again. [The doctor starts to unscrew the nut on the Gomco clamp.] Let me see if I can do it gently...

[The baby begins his bleating, plaintif cry again.]

Doctor: And there he goes.

Father: [To the baby] Okay... Okay....

Doctor: [to the baby] Shush, shush, shush-shush-shush.... [To the father] 'Just let me have my soother,' he says.

Father: [Laughs, then says to his baby] Its all yours.

[The Gomco clamp is now disassembled and removed, but the bell is still stuck to and on the glans of the baby who is still whimpering and then the plaintif cry - with intermittant sucking on his soother.. As the doctor wipes the remaining blood from the glans with gauze, the crying gets more intense and despirate.]

[Doctor continues his explaination; the father continues his "Mmm-hmmm's" and "OKay"s and "Right, right"s.]

Doctor: This is all bleeding; this old blood. Okay? There you go. [Finishes wiping with the gauze.] [Demonstrating with his index fingers and thumbs again and occasionally while explaining bumps the baby's glans with a finger.] And if you look carefully, completely nice even line all the way arround. And this is the level that you want to keep- see he's chubby here right?- so, we don't want the skin going up on top because he's gonna... right into position right like that, right? [Motions quickly upward around the penis with this fingers and thumbs again.] Now he's completely- this is what you meant by 'completely completely exposed'. See? All the way around? And there's no bleeding. And all we do is put a little bit of Vaseline on it [he puts the gauze with Vaseline on the baby's penis finally] ....

[The video stops here abruptly.]
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#8 of 36 Old 07-15-2006, 10:52 AM
 
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:Puke :Puke

I don't believe that Dr. when he says he used anesthetic. At the very least, there wasn't enough or it wasn't on long enough to be at all effective.

That Dr. is patronizing and clueless throughout the entire script.

The father comes close to realizing the truth at times, IMO, but the Dr. skillfully redirects him.

Even from just reading the script, I really wanted to run into that room and grab the baby away from the start.

Thank you for posting this. It's just a graphic as a video, IMO, but possibly more approachable for people unwilling to watch one.
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#9 of 36 Old 07-15-2006, 11:40 AM
 
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That makes me want to vomit
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#10 of 36 Old 07-15-2006, 12:01 PM
 
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Does anyone know anything about the father in this video? Did he regret what he did to his son after seeing it?

There are no words that I'm allowed to use on here to describe this "doctor". I hope he burns in ___.
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#11 of 36 Old 07-18-2006, 10:44 PM
 
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Obviously, the doctor was LYING about the anesthetic! There was no reason to put anesthetic in the Betadine because it wouldn't have numbed anything but the foreskin, which he was about to remove anyway! Besides, even if he HAD put anesthetic on the baby's penis, it wouldn't have had time to take effect. That dad realized how much pain his baby was in. I hope it stopped him from subjecting any future babies to that torture in the name of aesthetics.

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#12 of 36 Old 07-19-2006, 12:10 AM
 
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That made me sick just to read. I was shaky by the end. The sad thing is that doctor worship is so ingrained in people that the dad probably managed to rationalize it all away. After all the doc wasn't concerned why should he be? :

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#13 of 36 Old 07-19-2006, 01:22 AM
 
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that was so hard to read... I am so sad right now

-Katie

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#14 of 36 Old 07-19-2006, 12:02 PM
 
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Yikes! What ever happened to informed consent. (not that having the parent(s) consent to this procedure is sufficient anyway)

"Doctor: Although, there's some recent research that comes out CLAIMING that there's... you know... [sarcastically quoting] "irreVERSEable damage done!'....So there's a LOT of people with a LOT of irreversable damange running around!"

[sleeplessmommy sarcasm ON] Thanks for telling this us now, Doc, after you are done with the procedure.
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#15 of 36 Old 07-19-2006, 12:25 PM
 
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Damn that was difficult to read. :

OUR DAUGHTERS ARE PROTECTED SHOULDN'T OUR SONS BE TOO! :
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#16 of 36 Old 07-19-2006, 12:43 PM
 
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Ugh, how horrible I've got a few choice words for that "Doctor" :
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#17 of 36 Old 07-19-2006, 01:11 PM
 
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I can't even put into words how infuriated that made me.
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#18 of 36 Old 07-19-2006, 03:41 PM
 
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I have tears in my eyes. I can't even watch the video, but I thought I would be able to do the words, without the visual. Nope, now all I can think of is the one time I saw the beginning of the video.

What a jerk. Who? take your pick.

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#19 of 36 Old 07-20-2006, 04:40 AM
 
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That brought me to tears... I'm so glad I never watched the actual video Thank you for watching it enough to transcribe it. I would never have been able to handle it The only circ video I've seen is the one they show on Penn and Teller and that one didn't have any dialogue and was pretty short. I turned away from some parts of it even...

How someone can watch that happen to their child and not be outraged... no wonder it was the father who was there. The mother would have been freaking out most likely - more chance of that than the father freaking. My friend saw her ds #3's circ and wishes she'd seen the first one so that the other two wouldn't have had to go through it... she says the screams will haunt her forever...

love and peace.

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#20 of 36 Old 07-20-2006, 10:43 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sijae
The sad thing is that doctor worship is so ingrained in people that the dad probably managed to rationalize it all away. After all the doc wasn't concerned why should he be? :
Exactly.

I am sooo glad I didn't grow up going to Dr.'s routinely. I think it puts me in a position where it's easier for me to question what they do.
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#21 of 36 Old 07-20-2006, 10:46 AM
 
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Wow. : That's really heartbreaking. It shows how often parents are lied to. Just think of how many parents were told the baby was getting an anesthetic like this one and they weren't in the room to see the lie.

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#22 of 36 Old 07-20-2006, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheacoby
Damn that was difficult to read. :


"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
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#23 of 36 Old 07-20-2006, 11:58 AM
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and the doctor is warning them (at the end, of course) about hidden penis syndrome, which happens to some circ'd boys.

"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
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#24 of 36 Old 07-20-2006, 01:43 PM
 
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Its been awhile since i watched the video. I think i only was able to watch it all the way through once. That lying doctor almost makes me as sick as the screems of the baby. He talks to that father like a lying parent who doesnt want their child to know what is really going on by ignoring, redirecting and finally flat out lying. I seriously doubt that there was any anesthesia in that betadine (has anyone ever heard of this?) and like the other poster said, even if there was, it was almost entirely usless. The father asked multiple times that he thought there would be anesthesia and the doctor never really gives him a strait answer "it takes the edge off". So someone else lied to him about there being sufficient anesthesia maybe the doctor himself earlier. "it takes the edge off" that just makes me want to lash out in some way at that doctor. He basically says the whole time that the baby cries more about being strapped down than any thing else , yet the anesthesia "takes the edge off". Off of what?????? Being strapped down? or is it the THE FACT THAT HIS GENITALS ARE BEING TORN CRUSHED, and CUT TO PIECES? THAT NEEDS THE "EDGE" TAKEN OFF! Boy, i wish i could yell as loud as i feel like yelling right now in type.
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#25 of 36 Old 07-20-2006, 08:47 PM
 
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That makes me ill and angry! I so badly wanted to rescue that baby. All I could do was picture my own babe... I don't think I can ever watch that video.

:
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#26 of 36 Old 07-20-2006, 10:19 PM
 
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That was so difficult to read. I'm so sad right now. And I guess it's not just wanting to rescue that particular baby through the whole ordeal, but the fact that thousands of babies suffer this ridiculous torture every day.

I can't deal with it.

In any case, thanks for transcribing the script. I could never watch it.

HOW CAN ANYONE DO THIS TO THEIR OWN KID??? (or ANY child for that matter)
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#27 of 36 Old 07-28-2006, 12:02 AM
 
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for doing this nathan! It was super helpful.
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#28 of 36 Old 07-28-2006, 12:20 AM
 
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: I started getting queezy and dizzy half way through it. I can't even imagine. I don't even have any words that can describe how I feel.
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#29 of 36 Old 07-28-2006, 12:23 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cristina63303
I can't deal with it.

In any case, thanks for transcribing the script. I could never watch it.

HOW CAN ANYONE DO THIS TO THEIR OWN KID??? (or ANY child for that matter)
exactly.
I am literally sick to my stomach now...
why why why why why? I will never understand it.

When you have a baby you're supposed to protect it... not subject them to torture. I HATE that this is happening all over... and I feel SO helpless to stop it.
I am so upset.
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#30 of 36 Old 07-28-2006, 12:55 AM
 
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:Puke :Puke :Puke :Puke :Puke :Puke :Puke :Puke :Puke :Puke :
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