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#151 of 179 Old 08-07-2006, 06:46 PM
 
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trumpet said:

"I think the criteria for self-censorship should be every one of us asking a question such as, "how can I best convince this person, given what I know about them based on their posts, that circumcision is a heinous, evil, mutilating, abusive act." and then post accordingly. Ha, at least that's MY criteria for MY self-censorship Does anyone else do that?"

Well, yes, I try every time to do just that. But because I live in England, I also read (present tense) with great interest the posts made by USA residents - questions and answers. Over the past few years I have learned so much... and still learning. I strive to think myself into an advanced nation's culture where RIC is practised with barely a second thought. It's not easy. It's an assault on my concept of all things true, just, pure, lovely and of good report.

I will never cease to be in awe of the folk who live their daily lives fighting an abomination like this in the country they love.

So, thank you Trumpet. Your thread has given us the opportunity to air our views with a thoroughness long overdue, whatever the final outcome.

Christopher

Education is the discovery of our own ignorance. Will Durant

 

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You know you gonna be remembered for the things you say and do."

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#152 of 179 Old 08-07-2006, 07:11 PM
 
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I have just gotten to the end of this thread and I will take a bit to mull over the thoughts that are coming up and return to post a bit later tonight.

My real life is getting in the way of giving you all feedback on this issue but I will put it on hold this evening to toss out some ideas.

I want to thank everyone for their contributions to this forum. It is a subject that evokes such passion - and rightfully so. It's just the communication of that passion that needs to be thought about carefully.

"To err is human, to forgive, canine." - Unknown
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#153 of 179 Old 08-07-2006, 11:29 PM
 
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Ok, I'm back.

I think, in general, the board does run fairly smoothly. This is a subject that many feel very deeply passionate about and educating people new to the idea of circ can be frustrating, especially when you've had time to educate yourself on the facts and to simmer in your emotions and work out exactly how you feel about the topic.

I think words like mutilation and other strong emotion-evoking words are applicable to RIC but I think the use of them needs to be weighed on an individual basis. Also, how we phrase those words makes a huge difference in their perception. For instance, to say "Circumcision is mutilation and I'd never do that to my child." evokes a different reaction than saying "I believe circumcision is mutilating to a child and it's not a thing I would do." The first is a blanket statement, the second is an "I" statement and takes ownership of the opinion that circ is mutilation. It's easy to go on from there and explain why you believe this but to answer a newcomer's inquiry about circ with a frank statement that can imply shock and blame is not so productive. I think it's fine to express your passion as long as you own the statements as your own thoughts (and there is plenty of information to back up those opinions) and don't throw accusations along with your opinions.

It is never appropriate to cast suspicion against another member or their motives for posting here. It is actually against the User Agreement (see "Rules" at the top of any MDC page for the UA.) It is always fine to PM me or report a post which you think is made by a member who does not have honest intentions. Trolls always out themselves eventually and are dealt with by administration or they go away on their own in the face of facts.

When new posters come to this forum with questions, we have a Web Resources sticky that they can be directed to. The knowledgabe members of this community can always take excerpts from webpages to help answer questions as long as you include a link to the source. That sort of thing would help newbies to pinpoint tidbits of info that addressed their specific question and give them a place to research more if they are the type that want "facts" as opposed to personal experience type feedback. Then we could always dialog with them about the link, whether they read it, if it answered their questions, if it raised more questions. It is each person's responsibility to research and make informed choices. This board can't do the research for people. I see the mission here as one of directing people to facts and info and sharing personal experiences. Some people want facts backed by what they can call "science" like info from medical establishments and medical journals. Some people have social concerns and want to discuss peer issues and need personal accounts. Everyone has their own thing that will resonate with them. I think when we are posting to new members, we need to really ask ourselves what our onw motive is. Do you want to educate this person to empower them to make the best choice for their child? OR are you feeling angry that yet another person thinks they have the right to authorize cutting their kid's private parts. How you are feeling will color how you post. If you're angry, maybe skip hitting the reply button for a bit. It's not fair to put our own anger onto others who don't know enough yet about RIC to know how terrible it is. When we empower the inquirer with facts, they will find their own anger about the subject and hopefully move forward to help others see the truth as well.

As for making a seperate forum for venting, I don't see the function in that as a community service. It would serve as a place to allow devoted intactivists to let off steam but wouldn't serve the community and it's effort to educate very well I think. We allow venting threads here but one must abide by the User Agreement. We don't allow namecalling for instance. You can't say that your BIL is a total stupid jerk but you can say that he is acting in a stupid bullheaded way and that it angers you immensely. Do you see the difference?

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#154 of 179 Old 08-07-2006, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Islay
But because I live in England, I also read (present tense) with great interest the posts made by USA residents - questions and answers.

Interesting point. It just struck me how many of you who are saying, "tone down the attitude" (or similar) are European. For you, it's academic, as if I were fighting FGM in Africa. Of course I would also tell fellow intactivists to get less emotional, if it weren't all around me, every day, IRL.

"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
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#155 of 179 Old 08-07-2006, 11:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Yoshua
Seen a few people get in trouble for casting suspiscion on someone who was legit.


I was the legit person
But at the same time, it's not okay for anybody - no matter how legit they may be - to say pro-circ stuff unknowingly. I think it's very important to point out if someone has said something pro-circ, whether they recognise it or not. Subtle pro-circ language is something we have to fight against, and it DOES cause problems because when newbies come here saying stuff which we know is anti-intact, they need to be corrected. Unfortunately most of them will deny anything they said was pro-circ and they get offended and take every opportunity in the future to remind people that even *they* came good
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#156 of 179 Old 08-07-2006, 11:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by LadyMarmalade
But at the same time, it's not okay for anybody - no matter how legit they may be - to say pro-circ stuff unknowingly. I think it's very important to point out if someone has said something pro-circ, whether they recognise it or not. Subtle pro-circ language is something we have to fight against, and it DOES cause problems because when newbies come here saying stuff which we know is anti-intact, they need to be corrected. Unfortunately most of them will deny anything they said was pro-circ and they get offended and take every opportunity in the future to remind people that even *they* came good
I agree that anything that is pro-circ needs to be addressed but that can be done with facts without calling a person pro-circ and starting down the slippery slope of speculating whether someone has sincere intentions. If just the pro-circ statement(s) are addressed with facts, it's pretty obvious that one has two choices, to accept the facts or to stick to their pro-circ postion. A poster who continues to stick to a pro circ stance would then be dealt with by a moderator sending them a PM informing them of the title and purpose of the the forum and letting them know that no advocacy of circ is allowed in the forum. It is not the membership's place to accuse one of being pro-circ or to hint at it because that derails what could be a very informative thread into casting suspicion, violations of the User Agreement and then post removal and edits and a lot of work behind the scenes for a mod to PM people (and your mod is on dial up unfortunately - it takes ALOT of time!) A thread that debunks common myths and reasons for circ that is civil and factual stands in the forum for other lurkers to learn from!

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#157 of 179 Old 08-08-2006, 01:28 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by A&A
Interesting point. It just struck me how many of you who are saying, "tone down the attitude" (or similar) are European. For you, it's academic, as if I were fighting FGM in Africa. Of course I would also tell fellow intactivists to get less emotional, if it weren't all around me, every day, IRL.
That's very true... I'm not European, but I only have one friend who might have circumcised her son (I'm scared to ask...) and ALL the rest are intact The rates are so low around here especially among the types of people I hang out with.... I'm not faced with it every single day. Sometimes I'll see a cut boy at the park or swimming pool, but it's the exception not the rule. My parents want us to move to GA near them and one of my reservations about moving there is that most of the people there have circumcised sons

Wow.... PuppyFluffer, you're on dial-up

I'll be back later once dd and dh are asleep...

love and peace.

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: Circumcision can never be undone :
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#158 of 179 Old 08-08-2006, 03:20 AM
 
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Originally Posted by A&A
It just struck me how many of you who are saying, "tone down the attitude" (or similar) are European.
Well, here is one European who has no idea what political correctness is.

I agree 100% that honey is better choice than vinegar but when the personal name calling or accusations about being a liar start then I will whip out my vinegar bottle.
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#159 of 179 Old 08-08-2006, 04:31 AM
 
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Originally Posted by A&A
Interesting point. It just struck me how many of you who are saying, "tone down the attitude" (or similar) are European. For you, it's academic, as if I were fighting FGM in Africa. Of course I would also tell fellow intactivists to get less emotional, if it weren't all around me, every day, IRL.
I'm not European

Mama to my spirited J, and L, my homebirth: baby especially DTaP, MMR (family vax injuries)
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#160 of 179 Old 08-08-2006, 04:58 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I think one thing that is somewhat unique about CaC compared to the other forums on MDC that I have frequented... is how we tend to "take matters into our own hands" instead of reporting questionable posts to Karen (or mods on other forums where the "how AP is AP" threads and others like them show up). Which gives her more work ultimately. I appreciate not having threads shut down just as I'm getting to the juicy parts (I'm bad... I LOVE reading drama-filled threads ). But having just found out that PF is on dial-up... man.

The reason I don't report things to mods (I don't think I ever have - and I think I'd remember something like that) is because I'm never quite sure WHEN I should. Sometimes I think something is off kilter and so I just answer even though maybe it should be reported. I always figure that someone else will report it if it really needs to be reported. Maybe someone can help me with this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyMarmalade
But at the same time, it's not okay for anybody - no matter how legit they may be - to say pro-circ stuff unknowingly. I think it's very important to point out if someone has said something pro-circ, whether they recognise it or not. Subtle pro-circ language is something we have to fight against, and it DOES cause problems because when newbies come here saying stuff which we know is anti-intact, they need to be corrected. Unfortunately most of them will deny anything they said was pro-circ and they get offended and take every opportunity in the future to remind people that even *they* came good
Pro-circ is definitely NOT okay for sure! But we can correct people without accusing them (or even seeming to accuse them) of being blatantly pro-circumcision.

Even someone who sees that circumcision is wrong could still think that in some cases (like with a UTI or other ridiculous health claim) it's justified. Then if they only posted something such as "Why shouldn't I circumcise my son? My brother had to be circumcised due to health problems when he was five. He kept getting recurrent UTIs and I really don't want my son to have to deal with that" then we could either jump all over that person and berate them for bringing pro-circumcision propaganda here (even though they haven't told us how they feel about it other than this one concern) which would make them defensive. Or we could just give them the facts/personal experience of our own and they would be able, in good conscience, to make the decision that they really wanted to make in the first place.

Just because someone seems to be pro-circumcision doesn't necessarily make it so. We only get a sliver of a person's life and beliefs from a post (especially if they are new to MDC or if we haven't read any of their other posts here) and that sliver can be very misleading. Not always, but sometimes. So correcting gently is a good thing. Of course, if the person has been here for a week or at least a few days (giving them the TIME they need to absorb the facts and change their perceptions) and still is giving us the runaround... :

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Originally Posted by PuppyFluffer
As for making a seperate forum for venting, I don't see the function in that as a community service. It would serve as a place to allow devoted intactivists to let off steam but wouldn't serve the community and it's effort to educate very well I think. We allow venting threads here but one must abide by the User Agreement. We don't allow namecalling for instance. You can't say that your BIL is a total stupid jerk but you can say that he is acting in a stupid bullheaded way and that it angers you immensely. Do you see the difference?
The main virtue that I can see in having a separate forum (and I'm on the fence about it now having read all the posts regarding it...) is that we could talk about how to convince someone and then send them to the main forum and they wouldn't be able to read about themselves I would have sent my friend over here after talking to her if I hadn't felt the need to vent about how talking to her IRL went... ya know? I wouldn't have sent her over here to even lurk with that thread here, even though it was cathartic and necessary to my well-being that I get out what I felt about that conversation. In that way, a separate forum could help others by allowing us to direct them here without having to worry about them reading about themselves... Maybe I'm just sneaky though The points about why it wouldn't be good probably outnumber the reasons it would be good (that haven't been addressed), but I'm not really keeping track. Just on the fence for now. And I was also envisioning it as being like the abuse forum... not a set number of posts or anything, but PMing to become part of. I dunno Just my thoughts about that.

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Originally Posted by dnr3301
That is exactly what scared me away from the vax forum. All I wanted to know was info about polio, but I saw over and over that to get a simple answer about one thing, you had to prove that you had done research on everything else. But if you had done more research, you probably wouldn't have a simple question in the first place.

Yes, it gets annoying to answer, "no one should retract your son's forekin but him" the 800th time, or talk about the faults in the HIV or UTI studies over and over, but that's the 1000th time we've heard it; it might be the first time they are hearing it. So maybe we should have a protected place where we can say "when will they learn?" and not scare the newer people off.
I definitely think that we should answer everyone personally. But when we give them links and such, we need to give them the time to digest and go through them and then dialogue with us about the links. Excerpts are a wonderful way to ensure that the person is actually getting at least SOME of what we're linking to. I know that on some threads I wouldn't go to half the links that are posted except that they have excerpts that get me interested in what else the link has to say. I'm not saying that people don't use excerpts, just telling my experience with them and how important I find them.

Quote:
The point about feeling scared of negativity is valid, I think. I often find myself thinking, "I'm advocating NOT CUTTING OF PART OF THE BABY'S PENIS. why am I trying not to offend her?" I am sometimes amazed that this is even an issue. Why is this end the radical one?
This side should not be considered the radical side I wish that it wasn't. Sadly, we do have to remember that we are considered as such and act/post accordingly. We can either be labeled as wackos or educated, concerned people because we're the radical side : I hate labels (though I sometimes use them myself ... they make others see the labeled group as that label and not as people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kldliam
I agree with this. I also appreciated Trmpetplaya's long and thoughtful post. But when I am faced with someone who is being outright snotty, it makes my job more difficult. Remember, I'm not even getting paid for this either. I do my best to keep my cool but it isn't always easy.
Thank you Though... we're not getting paid either And sometimes snottiness is in the eye of the beholder : I'm not taking a cheap shot at you either. *NOT MEANT PERSONALLY* It's something we ALL need to keep in mind. I try to remember it (though I don't always...)... it's one of my favourite quotes:

"People seem not to see that their opinion of the world is also a confession of character." ~Emerson

Sometimes we can project our own feelings or frustrations on the people posting. I know that I do that. Everyone does. It's human nature to project. I know at least some of you took college psychology courses! And it's not easy in the least to try to read some of these aggravating posts (yes, I find them aggravating too) and give the poster the benefit of the doubt. Everyone is just doing the best they can (and if they aren't we DO eventually find out) just like we are. They just haven't always broken free of that d@mned cultural conditioning

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericswifey27
I'm not European
Me neither, but that's why she said "many"

Man, I am sure getting long-winded in my old age :

love and peace.

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: Circumcision can never be undone :
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#161 of 179 Old 08-08-2006, 06:18 AM
 
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Originally Posted by trmpetplaya
Pro-circ is definitely NOT okay for sure! But we can correct people without accusing them (or even seeming to accuse them) of being blatantly pro-circumcision.
Exactly (and I agree with Karen's post too). However, it has been the case many times that someone has pointed out pro-circ phrasing or wording and the person - not being fully informed - has had a volatile reaction. There doesn't seem to be a way anti-intact posts can be addressed if the person thinks they're anti-circ. It's similar to the racism issue - if someone uses subtle racist language without knowing, their ignorance doesn't mean what they said isn't racist ... and they'll protest when it's pointed out (no matter how gently they're informed).
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#162 of 179 Old 08-08-2006, 10:08 AM
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I'm not European

I didn't say everyone.

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#163 of 179 Old 08-08-2006, 10:17 AM
 
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Originally Posted by LadyMarmalade
Exactly (and I agree with Karen's post too). However, it has been the case many times that someone has pointed out pro-circ phrasing or wording and the person - not being fully informed - has had a volatile reaction. There doesn't seem to be a way anti-intact posts can be addressed if the person thinks they're anti-circ. It's similar to the racism issue - if someone uses subtle racist language without knowing, their ignorance doesn't mean what they said isn't racist ... and they'll protest when it's pointed out (no matter how gently they're informed).
If they protest, we're not responsible for that. We're not responsible for anyone's reaction, just our posts. If a person posts in a genuinely sincere manner, addressing the incorrect reasoning and avoiding getting into the "you're pro circ and don't you know the title of this forum...." then you have to have a clear conscious that you have helped the person to the best of your ability. I'd suggest letting it go if they insisted on their stand and reporting the post to me to evaluate rather than getting into it with the poster.

Also, explaining how you perceived their postings could help them to understand. Instead of saying something like "You just want to justify circing your child" you could say something like "It seems to me that you are still trying to defend circ." The first sentence accuses the person and makes assumptions about where they are in their thought process. The second makes an observation that you are willing to own (by saying "It seems to ME"). The second sentence gives the person a chance to see how they are being perceived by another and to reflect on that - if they are inclined. It takes a while to open the door and shed light on what a horror circ really is when you have been so culturally indoctrinated to accept it as the necessary normal thing to do.

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#164 of 179 Old 08-08-2006, 11:12 AM
 
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Originally Posted by trmpetplaya
The reason I don't report things to mods (I don't think I ever have - and I think I'd remember something like that) is because I'm never quite sure WHEN I should. Sometimes I think something is off kilter and so I just answer even though maybe it should be reported. I always figure that someone else will report it if it really needs to be reported. Maybe someone can help me with this...
I have only reported stuff here, and then it was only when it got to the "well if you don't know how to use your penis to pleasure a woman, it's your fault, not the circ" type stuff, or blatant name calling directed at one person, as opposed to "all you crazy non-circers" type stuff. I always figure by the time I'm fed up, so are others, and I'm probably not the only one to cllick the little !. On other forums, stuff always seems to disappear too fast. I love the juicy stuff too. I need a life, apparently.

R~mama to 3

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#165 of 179 Old 08-08-2006, 11:17 AM
 
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dur, double post.

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#166 of 179 Old 08-08-2006, 11:27 AM
 
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Originally Posted by trmpetplaya
And I was also envisioning it as being like the abuse forum... not a set number of posts or anything, but PMing to become part of. I dunno Just my thoughts about that.



Yes, like that. Perhaps with an X number of posts needed to join.

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#167 of 179 Old 08-08-2006, 12:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by A&A
Interesting point. It just struck me how many of you who are saying, "tone down the attitude" (or similar) are European. For you, it's academic, as if I were fighting FGM in Africa. Of course I would also tell fellow intactivists to get less emotional, if it weren't all around me, every day, IRL.
Yes, which is why I thought it important to mention. And why it's equally important (at least for me) to learn all I can about this unique culture of RIC in the USA and try to transport myself into that environment before I post.

Conversely, is there some benefit, do you think, in Americans looking beyond their shores to the example offered by the wide world beyond?

Christopher

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You know you gonna be remembered for the things you say and do."

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#168 of 179 Old 08-08-2006, 01:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Islay
Yes, which is why I thought it important to mention. And why it's equally important (at least for me) to learn all I can about this unique culture of RIC in the USA and try to transport myself into that environment before I post.

Conversely, is there some benefit, do you think, in Americans looking beyond their shores to the example offered by the wide world beyond?

Christopher
Absolutely! It really helps to know that other developed countries do NOT view the intact penis in the same negative light that the U.S. does. I value our European posters.
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#169 of 179 Old 08-08-2006, 01:36 PM
 
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Absolutely! It really helps to know that other developed countries do NOT view the intact penis in the same negative light that the U.S. does. I value our European posters.
As my grown-up son would still say: "Cool!"

Christopher

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#170 of 179 Old 08-08-2006, 02:25 PM
 
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Christopher: Conversely, is there some benefit, do you think, in Americans looking beyond their shores to the example offered by the wide world beyond?

I hate to point this out, because I am an American, however I (& the rest of the world I think) perceive Americans to be too arrogant and self-righteous to consider other "examples" worldwide... I really doubt that they would care about non-American customs & habits. But I never fail to mention them none-the-less.
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#171 of 179 Old 08-08-2006, 06:00 PM
 
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I hate to point this out, because I am an American, however I (& the rest of the world I think) perceive Americans to be too arrogant and self-righteous to consider other "examples" worldwide... I really doubt that they would care about non-American customs & habits. But I never fail to mention them none-the-less.
So I've noticed - and good for you.

I have to agree that, by and large, the world does view Americans this way. Americans have a certain swagger about them which is sometimes interpreted as arrogance; but the few I've met face to face have been a pleasure to meet and get to know. And online I've met many more!

Perhaps this insularity is one of the reasons why RIC persists beyond the debunking of myths.

Christopher

Education is the discovery of our own ignorance. Will Durant

 

"You give a little love and it all comes back to you....

You know you gonna be remembered for the things you say and do."

Bugsy Malone

 

 

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#172 of 179 Old 08-09-2006, 03:35 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kldliam
I hate to point this out, because I am an American, however I (& the rest of the world I think) perceive Americans to be too arrogant and self-righteous to consider other "examples" worldwide... I really doubt that they would care about non-American customs & habits. But I never fail to mention them none-the-less.
I perceive most Americans to be exactly the same way (as an American.... though I don't perceive myself to be that way ). The idea that the way WE do it is better because WE'RE Americans :

Quote:
Originally Posted by dnr3301
I have only reported stuff here, and then it was only when it got to the "well if you don't know how to use your penis to pleasure a woman, it's your fault, not the circ" type stuff, or blatant name calling directed at one person, as opposed to "all you crazy non-circers" type stuff. I always figure by the time I'm fed up, so are others, and I'm probably not the only one to cllick the little !. On other forums, stuff always seems to disappear too fast. I love the juicy stuff too. I need a life, apparently.
Wow.... I must've missed those posts! Maybe not the name-calling, but the other Yeah... maybe I need a life too. I live entirely in the world of dd, books, and internet (with some dh time too ). At least I have no internet during the day right now. Then I'd REALLY have no life!

PuppyFluffer - I totally agree about the "me statements." Maybe that's what it all boils down to... since it is so hard to tell over the internet what someone's intent is... that could very well solve most of the problem (which I think is misunderstandings). Gosh, you're an awesome mod You do a wonderful job with this forum!

love and peace.

mama to two girls and due in November!
: Circumcision can never be undone :
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#173 of 179 Old 08-09-2006, 03:41 AM
 
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Gosh, you're an awesome mod You do a wonderful job with this forum!
I was thinking the exact same thing.

~Nay

Reneé, 34 year old mom to Antonin 8/04 and Arianna 9/06  (6 weeks) 5/08. Married to Matt since 6/03 .  
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#174 of 179 Old 08-09-2006, 08:59 AM
 
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Thanks for the applause. The topic is really dear to me and the education of people is really important to me me. It is a fine balance between sharing info and giving attitude. As I've said many times before, being passionate about something does not absolve you of the obligation to be polite about how you speak.

And the previous point of giving people time is really important too. When something is so culturally ingrained, you can't erase that in a day. By giving people facts step by step, and having many of us say the same things in various different ways, we can begin to show truth on a subject that someone may have thought that they knew all they needed to know.

As for reported posts, I do get them and I really appreciate them! I can't read every post every day and still have a life. Most often the posts that get reported to me have religous discussion, unnecessary sexual content, troll accusations or just snarky stuff. It's not common that I disagree with a post report, most of the time you folks are right on and I appreciate the help.

Now the dial up thing! Boy am I frustrated. I live 4 miles from a university town and cannot get cable or dsl out here. I'm just a little bit too far from what ever bit of equipment the phone company needs to hook me up to. I call and request dsl service freqeuntly just to bug them but it hasn't happened yet. So, when you guys go all snarky on a suspected troll and I have to remove posts and PM members as to why I removed their posts and issue alerts and such, you can eat up hours of my night on just one thread...so have some sympathy for me and be nice please!

Again, I appreciate all this disucssion!

"To err is human, to forgive, canine." - Unknown
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#175 of 179 Old 08-09-2006, 12:16 PM
 
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Karen, I concur wholeheartedly with Trumpet and ~nay. You even have the ability to reprimand us in the nicest possible way!

Yes, awareness and integrity in our posts is the key.

For your sake, I do hope you get a broadband service very soon. Not only is it fast but much better value for money. If things keep dragging on, you could investigate satellite broadband. However, it's still evolving and either uploading or downloading (can't remember which) is currently as slow as dialup!

Best of luck!

Christopher

Education is the discovery of our own ignorance. Will Durant

 

"You give a little love and it all comes back to you....

You know you gonna be remembered for the things you say and do."

Bugsy Malone

 

 

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#176 of 179 Old 08-09-2006, 01:01 PM
 
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Thank you for the time and effort devoted to this forum Karen, it really is very much appreciated!

A little OT with regards to broadband: do you have anyone in America offering that for free yet? A little earlier this year someone did that here in Britain and it turned the market totally upside down.

And Chris, it is uploading when someone downloads something from you and downloading when you let them upload something to you.
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#177 of 179 Old 08-09-2006, 07:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Revamp
Thank you for the time and effort devoted to this forum Karen, it really is very much appreciated!

A little OT with regards to broadband: do you have anyone in America offering that for free yet? A little earlier this year someone did that here in Britain and it turned the market totally upside down.

And Chris, it is uploading when someone downloads something from you and downloading when you let them upload something to you.
Yep, James... I know.

I was referring to satellite broadband - can't remember whether it's uploading or downloading which is still very slow, but one of them is. So you get a sort of half-broadband on satellite for the time being!

Christopher

Education is the discovery of our own ignorance. Will Durant

 

"You give a little love and it all comes back to you....

You know you gonna be remembered for the things you say and do."

Bugsy Malone

 

 

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#178 of 179 Old 08-09-2006, 08:09 PM
 
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#179 of 179 Old 08-10-2006, 02:04 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you so much, everyone for contributing to this thread. I appreciate every single one of you! We make a difference!

love and peace.

mama to two girls and due in November!
: Circumcision can never be undone :
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