QUESTION: Fused Foreskin on my 2 1/2 year old - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 119 Old 08-12-2006, 03:23 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Jaydens_mom
I understand that you are trying to change my views on circumcision in hopes that i will not circumcise my next son.. but maybe you should know that i am unable to have any further children. So to me, i am taking this as you are telling me that i am horrible because i had my one and only child who happened to be a male, circumcised.
It is a hard thing to be able to look at your child and say "I am sorry. I love you very much but, I made a mistake." As the mother of a 10 y.o. I've had to say this a number of times. Its hard, but she respects me so much more. It was the hardest parenting lesson I've had to teach my DH (her stepdad.)
We all make mistakes as people and parents. Its a hard way to learn, but man does the lesson stick!

Mom to three 14 y.o. rock star grrl, 5 y.o. knight in spazzy armour and baby Juniper, born still @39 weeks 4 days 2-3-10 .
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#62 of 119 Old 08-12-2006, 03:25 AM
 
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What Sijae said. I am sorry you cannot have more children, if you wanted them. That's hard. But there are many opportunities to makke things as right as they can be, after the fact. You can raise your son to know that circumcision is unnecessary, so he will not do it to his own sons. You need not tell him he is "deformed" to do this; simply tell him that the docotrs led you to believe it was the right choice to make, and now you know it's not necessary. That's all.

As far as telling people what to do with their own children. We ALL have a responsibility to protect children from harm.

~*Kristi*~
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#63 of 119 Old 08-12-2006, 03:25 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Jaydens_mom
Heck if i was able to have another child and it turned out to be a boy maybe i would reconsider having him circumcised, but the fact remains that i will never be able to make that choice again. I am not going to tell other people what they should do with thier sons either.
I think that is all people here are trying to do, is help you make a more informed choice next time. Since there won't be a next time, it is okay to understand NOW that what you did was medically unneccessary and cruel.

I do now. My DS is circ'd and I regret it everytime I look at his little penis. I feel shame everytime others see it. All but one of the people I know with preschoolers have NOT circ'd, so I am the odd one. AND, I am the only CRUNCHY one...go figure! I wisj I could take it back. We made a last minute decision based on the lockerroom and Daddy's is arguments, and we both regret it...:

Fortunately, DS can still choose to fix our mistake...someday when he understands this all.

Darcy mama to Dillon, Marah and Leo, partner to Jeremy
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#64 of 119 Old 08-12-2006, 03:26 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Sijae
But when you say uneducated and negative things about whole children and tell people that a circumcised penis is perfect and raised your son to circumcise his sons, you are perpetuating abuse. So whether you have more children or not you are in a position to effect the world for better or worse. Right now you are on the worse path. If you come to MDC and talk about circumcising you are likely to have people try to sway you into the better category.

Laura
Please point out to me where i have said anything negative about children who are uncircumcised.. I don't recall saying that the only perfect penis is a circumcised penis. I believe in choice. I did not tell my cousin his sons penis is ugly because its not circumcised. That was HIS choice. It's not ugly at all, its a penis. Personally i don't find penis' attractive to begin with , whether they are uncircumcised or not.
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#65 of 119 Old 08-12-2006, 03:28 AM
 
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But why do you not believe that it should have been your son's choice?

~*Kristi*~
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#66 of 119 Old 08-12-2006, 03:31 AM - Thread Starter
 
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When / If my son comes up to me in 8+ years and asks "mom, why did you have my penis circumcised/cut/etc?", I will tell him exactly why. If he is upset about it for whatever reason I will THEN apologize and feel remorse for my actions.
However he is 2 1/2. I will climb this wall when i come to it. There is no sense in stressing out over something that wont become an issue (if it does at all ) for another few years.
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#67 of 119 Old 08-12-2006, 03:34 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Lula's Mom
But why do you not believe that it should have been your son's choice?
Every boy that i have known to be born in my family is circumcised, I was raised to believe that is how boys should look. I have been with uncircumcised sexual partners ( after giving birth to my son ), but the reason i CHOSE to have it circumcised is because my mother convinced me that due to my circumstances and our family it was the right thing to do, and that it would be virtually painless as children apparently cant feel anything for the first few months of thier lives. My mother paid for it, not I.
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#68 of 119 Old 08-12-2006, 03:39 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Jaydens_mom
Every boy that i have known to be born in my family is circumcised, I was raised to believe that is how boys should look. I have been with uncircumcised sexual partners ( after giving birth to my son ), but the reason i CHOSE to have it circumcised is because my mother convinced me that due to my circumstances and our family it was the right thing to do, and that it would be virtually painless as children apparently cant feel anything for the first few months of thier lives. My mother paid for it, not I.
Oh man. this just gets sadder. A baby can feel pain mor accutely than an adult. did you know there are thousand of nerve endings in the foreskin? Oh man...

Mom to three 14 y.o. rock star grrl, 5 y.o. knight in spazzy armour and baby Juniper, born still @39 weeks 4 days 2-3-10 .
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#69 of 119 Old 08-12-2006, 03:44 AM
 
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You see, this is how it is! I knew there was more to it for you. There are layers and layers to this issue, and you have to dig through it to understand your own feelings! Many of us, at one time, had the exact same beliefs as you.

All of the boys and men I um, knew, growing up were circumcised. I too thought that was the way it was supposed to be. (Except one boyfriend, plus my dad- but I only saw his once, accidentally, so I didn't really 'know'.) When my sisters had their sons before I had any children, I knew no more of circumcision than you do. I did not question them about it, I just thought it had to be done! And it was. I remember my nephew's scabbed, bloody penis with the plastic ring tied around it. I saw that horrible sight, and I didn't even question the necessity for that surgery on a brand-new baby!

Luckily I read about it before I was pregnant the first time. My baby was a girl but I had already learned enough to know I wouldn't circumcise. Now I have a boy who is intact.

I know you can't really believe what your mother said about babies not feeling pain. You are young and I know she's your mom... but you know they do. There is a Graphic Circ Video on the CAC forum, and if you watch it, you will have no doubt.

I know this has not been an easy thread for you, and I am glad you are still here talking about it.

~*Kristi*~
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#70 of 119 Old 08-12-2006, 03:45 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaydens_mom
Every boy that i have known to be born in my family is circumcised, I was raised to believe that is how boys should look. I have been with uncircumcised sexual partners ( after giving birth to my son ), but the reason i CHOSE to have it circumcised is because my mother convinced me that due to my circumstances and our family it was the right thing to do, and that it would be virtually painless as children apparently cant feel anything for the first few months of thier lives. My mother paid for it, not I.
Just wow...oh. my. god.

That quote is probably the most inaccurate piece of information I have ever read.

ETA I am sorry you had this type of support as a young mom. I can almost understand why you would believe something so outlandish...

Darcy mama to Dillon, Marah and Leo, partner to Jeremy
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#71 of 119 Old 08-12-2006, 03:49 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Jaydens_mom
Please point out to me where i have said anything negative about children who are uncircumcised.. I don't recall saying that the only perfect penis is a circumcised penis. I believe in choice. I did not tell my cousin his sons penis is ugly because its not circumcised. That was HIS choice. It's not ugly at all, its a penis. Personally i don't find penis' attractive to begin with , whether they are uncircumcised or not.
I'd be happy to point out the things that are so deeply disturbing about how you speak about your sons penis. First of all you seem unusually concerned with how it looks:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaydens_mom
Yes my son does in fact have a LOOSE circumcision..it almost looks like it wasn't circumcised at all because the skin still covers most of the head.

It's just that when we pull the skin back as far as it will go naturally it looks as if it was actually sewn to the base of the head.. im not sure exactly what fusing is supposed to look like... but this looks like it will never pull away

Maybe it's how it is supposed to look, but any other circumcised penis' i have seen have Never looked like this. Even my step-son when he was 2 had a clearly circumcised penis, although he was circumcised by a different doctor. There was no fusion... the skin was not covering the head whatsoever.

It just really worries me, even my mother insists it was done wrong because my brothers never looked like this...

I am taking him to a pediatrician on Monday and she is going to give me a second opinion and perhaps even reffer me to a urologist..

I am really hoping that it does pull apart and reveal the entire head eventually. I really don't want to have to get him re-circumcised.. it'd break my heart.
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now it is a cosmetic thing, but that does not make it WRONG.
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All i can do is wait i guess, and hopefully it will detach itself fully and be how i EXPECTED it to be.
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But if they say it looks normal and the skin will eventually pull away in time then i will wait it out, if in a few years it remains the same and he says something about it then we will go back and have it fixed.
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I expected it to look circumcised.. much like any other circumcised male, i expected the head to be fully visable... i did not expect this "deformed" look.
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Thank you for your discription. Knowing that it will eventually pull away from and expose the head of the penis fully makes it easier for me to look at it now.
You have made it perfectly clear that you desire your sons penis to look a certain way and that you yourself (not us) find your sons penis in its current state repulsive and deformed. If anyone gives your kid the message that he is not perfect it will be you trying to alter his body for your own benefit. And if you thought that whole penis's were acceptable you wouldn't be so darn concerned that he still has skin covering the glans. The obvious conclusion form your obsession with the circ'd look is that you have something against a normal penis.

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If someone is going to be as shallow as to say "you're circumcised, i don't want to be with you" then they do not deserve him in thier life.
Quite ironically that seems to be exactly what you are saying about him. If his penis doesn't conform to your standards you will have it "fixed" regardless of how damaging it is to him.

Here is where uneducated misinformation comes into play:


Quote:
I don't have a penis so i don't know the proper way of pulling the skin back and cleaning and etc... and i didnt really want to have to show him how to do it when he was older
Obviously you don't actually know anything about normal penis's because you would know that pulling the foreskin back is harmful. And if you are this uneducated about penis's then each time you talk to another mom about parenting choices you are likely to be imparting some of that misinformation.

Laura

mom to 3 home-born children, wife to a great guy joy.gif

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#72 of 119 Old 08-12-2006, 03:57 AM
 
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Well, it seems the OP has retired for the evening, so I am finally off to bed. It is 3 o'clock in the morning! An intactivist work's is never done...

Jaydens_mom, I hope you will stick around.

~*Kristi*~
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#73 of 119 Old 08-12-2006, 04:07 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Jaydens_mom
I came here because i wanted to know why the skin was still attached to the head of the penis when he is 2 1/2 years old.
I didn't come here to be told that i am a child mutilator and that i have deformed my son by choosing to have him circumcised.
Hi,

No one has even suggested you are a child mutilator. On the contrary, the posters have acknowledged that you were not fully informed about the foreskin or circumcision before you had the surgery done to your son. That makes you as much a victim as it does him. The very fact that you mentioned how worried you were about cleaning the area is proof that you were either uninformed, or misinformed.

I have a two year old son. I can assure you that absolutely no effort goes into cleaning his intact penis. The only cleaning a parent ever has to worry about is wiping the outside like a finger. A parent no more has to clean under the foreskin than they need to pry up their own fingernails and clean the skin beneath.

~Nay

Reneé, 34 year old mom to Antonin 8/04 and Arianna 9/06  (6 weeks) 5/08. Married to Matt since 6/03 .  
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#74 of 119 Old 08-12-2006, 04:07 AM
 
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I am moving this to the Circumcision Forum as there is a wealth of information about penises there

I have retired from administration work, so if you have a question about anything MDC-related, please contact Cynthia Mosher. Thanks!
 
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#75 of 119 Old 08-12-2006, 04:42 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Jaydens_mom
and that it would be virtually painless as children apparently cant feel anything for the first few months of thier lives. My mother paid for it, not I.
Wrong, wrong, so very very very wrong

You should have researched this more. Every reply you post emphasizes how you were completely clueless about everything having to do with circumcision. You allowed your newborn to have a normal and healthy part of his body amputated based on misinformation so outlandishly stupid that I, personally, would be embarrassed to admit them as reasons.

"ATLANTA (CNN) -- A new study found circumcision so traumatic that doctors ended the study early rather than subject any more babies to the operation without anesthesia.

The researchers discovered that for those circumcised without anesthesia there was not only severe pain, but also an increased risk of choking and difficulty breathing...Up to 96 percent of the babies in the United States and Canada receive no anesthesia when they are circumcised, according to a report from the University of Alberta in Edmonton.

from http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9712/23/ci...on.anesthetic/


Many people on here have offered you kindness and helpful advice. They've pointed you to the regrets thread and informed you that many mothers on here who have one or more circumcised sons have educated themselves about circumcision and are now among the most vocal of intactivists. They have repeatedly told you that you are not to blame; it's obvious by your responses that no one helped you learn this topic at all. And yet even with your original questions about the skin reattaching and looking "deformed", even with the information that practically everything you know about the intact penis is inaccurate, even with the information that Canada's circumcision rate is down to 18%, you still have the gall to tell all of us that everything is perfect, and that YOU are happy with how you had your SON'S penis modified.

You may think your son will grow up completely clueless that a part of his healthy body was ampuated. You are forgetting, however, of an invention known as "the internet". It is true that he may not care that he was circumcised, but I can guarentee you that he will find out about it. In finding out, he will also end up reading and learning about the normal foreskin, the roles it plays in infancy and adulthood, and how circumcisions are performed. The men of today are much more knowledgable about what they lost for no reason than their fathers, and our sons will be even more knowledgable. My parents-in-law were very surprised to learn that my husband is upset and angry about having been circumcised. They never thought he would have a clue. Unfortunately they guessed wrong. Of course it doesn't affect them at all because it's not their penis. They weren't the ones who had to deal with pain and tightness with every erection. You see, even though parents are the ones who choose this cosmetic surgery, they aren't the ones who grow up to actually use the modified body part. It's the exact same for you. You would have seen your son's penis for probably 5 years at the most. He's going to have to see it and use it every single day for the rest of his life.

~Nay

Reneé, 34 year old mom to Antonin 8/04 and Arianna 9/06  (6 weeks) 5/08. Married to Matt since 6/03 .  
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#76 of 119 Old 08-12-2006, 06:27 AM
 
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The fusing is something which all intact men have. It is there so that the foreskin does not keep on rolling down the shaft, which would be of little merit and great complexity and risk.
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#77 of 119 Old 08-12-2006, 08:40 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sijae
I'd be happy to point out the things that are so deeply disturbing about how you speak about your sons penis. First of all you seem unusually concerned with how it looks:













You have made it perfectly clear that you desire your sons penis to look a certain way and that you yourself (not us) find your sons penis in its current state repulsive and deformed. If anyone gives your kid the message that he is not perfect it will be you trying to alter his body for your own benefit. And if you thought that whole penis's were acceptable you wouldn't be so darn concerned that he still has skin covering the glans. The obvious conclusion form your obsession with the circ'd look is that you have something against a normal penis.

There is nothing wrong with skin still covering the head of his penis, it looks fine. It is the fusion that i was wondering about... which is when you pull the skin back and the underlying tissue (bottom of the foreskin) is still attached to the head in some manner, which is in my sons case around the ridge before it curves under. It is noticably flawed AT THE MOMENT, and i was wondering if that skin pulls away on its own or if it was a circumcisional error on my doctors part (maybe he attached it there by accident)...
flawed in my opinion is : it looks neither like a circumcised or non circumcised penis.



Quite ironically that seems to be exactly what you are saying about him. If his penis doesn't conform to your standards you will have it "fixed" regardless of how damaging it is to him.

Here is where uneducated misinformation comes into play:

The only way to make you understand what i mean is to take a picture of his penis and post it, which i refuse to do.
I have already stated that i will not allow the doctors to forcefully pull it away, and if it doesnt pull away on its own i will let him decide when / if he wants to get that fixed up so that the head is no longer FUSED, and by FUSED I mean LITERALLY ATTACHED to his foreskin




Obviously you don't actually know anything about normal penis's because you would know that pulling the foreskin back is harmful. And if you are this uneducated about penis's then each time you talk to another mom about parenting choices you are likely to be imparting some of that misinformation.
Perhaps this is due to parents being taught a long time ago that the skin needs to be MANUALLY pulled back every time it is cleaned... it may be proven to be harmful now, but when i gave birth my mother was only able to tell me what she was told when she had my brother 18 years ago. Obviously you are misunderstanding my discription of the appearance of my sons penis.. you are stating that i am unhappy with the left over foreskin which is UNTRUE. I was concerned about the underlying foreskin that is ATTACHED to his penis not allowing the whole head to appear when the skin is pulled back. I would much rather my son have EXTRA skin then not enough skin when he is older thanks.
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#78 of 119 Old 08-12-2006, 08:49 AM - Thread Starter
 
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augh i wish you could see it as you are getting the wrong mental picture of what it looks like.
I have seen circumcised penis' on children his age and the skin is NOT attached to the head of the penis, it is attached to the shaft and the head is fully exposed. Which is what a circumcised penis is intended to look like.

I am not saying this is the PERFECT IMAGE of a penis, and that uncircumcised penis' look wrong so for those who are taking it that way, you need to stop reading so much into my posts.

I am only stating that it doesn't look like ANY other circumcised penis i have seen in my life or on the internet. It does not look UNcircumcised either.

The extra forskin that still covers half the head when not pulled back is fine with me, its better that way. But the part that is actually ATTACHED to the point where it almost looks as if it were stiched there, is what concerns me.
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#79 of 119 Old 08-12-2006, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Basically i EXPECTED the after product to look like every other circumcised child's penis, not to have skin attached to the head.

Looking at it, i cannot even imagine how it can pull off by itself without surgery.. it just looks so... attached.. like an arm is attached to a torso.

Im not saying that my only option IS surgery , because that is a LAST case scenerio.

I had nooooo idea there was such thing as fused foreskin to the head of the penis until i did some internet searching and finally after a few days found a picture that LOOKED almost like what my sons penis looks like and it was "fused" as they put it.
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#80 of 119 Old 08-12-2006, 08:55 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaydens_mom
augh i wish you could see it as you are getting the wrong mental picture of what it looks like.
I have seen circumcised penis' on children his age and the skin is NOT attached to the head of the penis, it is attached to the shaft and the head is fully exposed. Which is what a circumcised penis is intended to look like.

I am not saying this is the PERFECT IMAGE of a penis, and that uncircumcised penis' look wrong so for those who are taking it that way, you need to stop reading so much into my posts.

I am only stating that it doesn't look like ANY other circumcised penis i have seen in my life or on the internet. It does not look UNcircumcised either.

The extra forskin that still covers half the head when not pulled back is fine with me, its better that way. But the part that is actually ATTACHED to the point where it almost looks as if it were stiched there, is what concerns me.
Ok, so this is underneath the glans/head yes?

It is totally sealed up, there is no entryway to the skin below at all?

Normal.

Seriously, I know exactly the part you mean. If you retract an intact man (after asking his permission of course ) then you can see it. I have one of them and every other intact man does too.

In most circumcisions they cut past this point and try to start digging out the mucosal tissue too, in a very loose circumcision I can imagine that that part could be left.
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#81 of 119 Old 08-12-2006, 08:58 AM - Thread Starter
 
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no... the head is not fully exposed when the skin is pulled back, you can not see the under ridge of the head... where it curves under like a mushroom ... because the skin is attached before it even gets to that point.
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#82 of 119 Old 08-12-2006, 09:00 AM
 
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Hmm...

No exposure of the coronal rim. Right.

Sounds like it has totally readhered, to the extent that a normal intact penis does. I have heard of that happening before, apparently that tends to sort itself out by puberty.
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#83 of 119 Old 08-12-2006, 09:05 AM - Thread Starter
 
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see how in this diagram the skin is still loosly circumcised but the head is FULLY revealed when pulled back?
http://www.aboutcirc.com/modcirc.gif

THIS IS NOT WHAT MY SONS PENIS LOOKS LIKE.

The skin is attached just before the head is fully revealed, so the undercurve of the head in UNDER the skin instead of revealed... shmegma gets is under this skin in pockets and is hard to get out...
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#84 of 119 Old 08-12-2006, 09:07 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Revamp
Hmm...

No exposure of the coronal rim. Right.

Sounds like it has totally readhered, to the extent that a normal intact penis does. I have heard of that happening before, apparently that tends to sort itself out by puberty.
This sounds about right, yes.
As long as it is self fixable ( the body does it on its own ) then that is great.. i didn't want it to be an issue for him later on in life when he sees an uncircumcised LOOSE skined penis erect and wonders why his head is not fully visable like that.
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#85 of 119 Old 08-12-2006, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Jaydens_mom
He is perfect.

You messed with his perfection. But you made what you thought was the right decision at the time. Now you know better, and you can make better choices in the future, like leaving what's left of his poor foreskin alone and not re-circumcising him.

"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
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#86 of 119 Old 08-12-2006, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Jaydens_mom
I am not altering my opinion of circumcision. I was NOT informed of the fusing process... however i had full knowledge about loss of sensitivity and etc.. as my cousin and i both had our children in the same month and discussed this (his son is uncut). Sure maybe when he is having sex it will not feel as great as it might for an uncircumcised male, but having always being circumcised how is he to know the difference..

This is a really awful position to take. "I know what I robbed him of, but he won't know." Wow. Just wow.

"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
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#87 of 119 Old 08-12-2006, 11:20 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Lula's Mom
An intactivist work's is never done...
So, is this what ya'll call intactivism then? Coz to me it looks like ripping a mama apart over something she cannot change. Funny thing, perception.

ETA:

In the lactivist forums there has been much discussion about whether it is really beneficial to rip mamas apart over choices made in the context of much misinformation and lack of support.

It would be nice to see some similar discussion among "intactivists." I think it would do a lot more for the cause than the attacking. All the attacking does IMO is make the attackers feel superior. Which is a fun feeling, but not exactly the altruism people are claiming it is.

To the OP:

I am sorry you are being so brutally attacked, especially when you came here to ask a question.

I think that circumcision is an important issue, and that not cutting is better. But when you know better you do better, right? Every mama makes mistakes, including the mamas on this thread who are being so harsh with their judgments. And ITA that he probably will not know the difference, especially since it sounds like his cut was so loose.

And yes, of course your son is perfect.
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#88 of 119 Old 08-12-2006, 11:31 AM
 
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Jaydens_Mom

I just have a question for you, meant with complete sincerity as I am truly curious:

How did you find out about MDC? We know you're *new* as yesterdays post was your 1st ( and you are now over 40, WOW )

* However wrong or mis-informed everyone feels you were at having your son circ'ed, it was YOU'RE doing and if YOU"RE fine with that, that is truly what matters here. We all do things that might make our *neighbours* cringe.
My sister is due any day now and says with certainty that she will circ' a boy . She is currently witnessing me nurse my 3.5yo and said to me the other day...."I leave you alone about the choices you make, now leave me alone..." Hmmph. I put my foot in my mouth as up until that day I had been sending her a barroge of links on circ's, vidoe clips etc.
If she has a boy, I will have to cry on the shoulders of the Mammas here as my family is pro-circ as yours is.
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#89 of 119 Old 08-12-2006, 11:56 AM
 
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If the OP is a fake ya'll can look at this as a dry run and maybe talk about how you could respond better next time?
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#90 of 119 Old 08-12-2006, 12:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by thismama
So, is this what ya'll call intactivism then? Coz to me it looks like ripping a mama apart over something she cannot change. Funny thing, perception.
Yes, yes it must be. Because this absolutely is what I call intactivism: gently educating this mama and others. Because she can't change it, she gets a free pass to be ignorant and continue the misinformation she was told? NO FREAKIN' WAY. I have been nothing but kind and gentle to this mama. I like her and I feel that if we can keep the dialogue going, she will come out the other side better for it. I busted my butt giving her information on her son's condition, which cannot and should not be discussed without the addendum that 'hey, circumcision is a bad thing which caused this problem in the first place'. You show me one place that I have been rude or unkind to her! I cannot and would not control what others say, but I have done my very best here. And your perception changes that not one bit.

~*Kristi*~
Tallulah Dare 8-01,  Marcos Gael 12-04, Cormac Mateo 9-09, Leonidas Ronan 11-11

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