I have a very large extended family, and we are devout christians. So, I have no religious reason to do it either, but everyone in my family is freaking at the thought of my son being intact, saying how "gross" it is, he'll have smegma, all that good stuff. My best friend even yelled at me on the phone to "just do it".
The funny thing is that all of them understand that it's no longer a medical issue, they just want me to do it for aesthetics. I told them to please not worry about what my son's penis looks like, but I'm afraid they will think of him differently. OR think he's "gross" or something.
Has anyone been through this and it abated over time? Will people eventually accept that it's for the best?
I am so sorry for the pressure your family & friends are putting on you. It is so unfair. In answer to your question, as the months progress, they will begin to love every ounce of him, even his intact penis, which by the way isn't a birth defect. Please tell them that.
The only one that can protect your son from circumcision is you. You have to make sure that all the medical staff knows that you do not want this. Start making calls as soon as you can and then do some follow-up calls before your Due Date.
Has your husband seen the graphic circ video yet?
Try to get him to watch this video first and read the transcript too.
See what his reaction is.........
Forced genital cutting video footage. This has to end.
Warning: This footage is graphic and disturbing.
TURN YOUR SPEAKERS UP!!
Transcription of what is said during the Circumcision Video:
Doctor [drawing on paper next to the empty Circumstraint, and talking to the baby's father before the operation begins]: This is the penis itself... in the final look, there's a little groove and then there's the actual head of the penis like this, right? (Uh, its a little to big for this diagram...)
Doctor: But basically, the foreskin comes all the way along here right over the top...
Doctor: ...and up like that. You're gonna take it back to about here.
Doctor: So. This is the natural skin, when we're all finished;
Doctor: This is healed where the skin was taken away; and this is completely one line, completely free.
Father: Okay. Okay.
Doctor: If that was your question...
Father. Yeah. Yeah. That's... that's what I want. [Laughs nervouslyl.]
Doctor: Okay? Alright! That's what you're gonna get!
Father: Yeah okay, good...
Doctor: We're gonna set 'im down right here.... [Undoing the straps of the Circumcstraint.]
Father, [to the doctor:] He's all yours....[to his son:] C'mere my boy....
Doctor [To the father :] He's GROWN!
Doctor: Look at the size, eh!?
Father: Oh my!
Doctor [putting the baby in the Circumstraint]: Look at him! He is... [baby begins to cry] Now, you'll notice, that he was nice and quiet - he's already fussy. Why? Maybe he doesn't want to be in this position, maybe he doesn't want to move his arms or his legs. You'll find th at one of the things that they most don't like is being unable to move. Cuz, their legs are normally flexed, right? And what we do is we take their legs out and we put 'em in a position- see how much he's reisiting me just now?
Father: Right. Right....
Doctor: And as soon as he realizes that he can't move that he gets all... He IS getting chubby! Let's put his sox on....
Father: He's gained, uh, seven ounce now... [Baby cries again as the doctor straps his legs down.]
Doctor: See? If you were standing outside the door, and you hear that, you'd say 'Oh my goodness! What's happening?'"
Father: Yeah- 'what is that?'
Doctor: [Opening up the baby's diaper] Oh, he's actually... a good size! Now. Of course, we check that the penis is fully normal, right? We also check and make sure both testicles are okay. (We've checked this before on him.) But, he's a little bit pudgy here and I'll show you what I mean by 'pudgy'. [Baby cries again.] Now we've done nothing to him. LISTEN to him! And that's important because everybody gets all excited about how they...
Father: Is it okay if I put this in? [Referring to a pacifier/soother]
Doctor: Sure! By all means. By all means.
Father: Quiet him down a bit... [To his son:] Okay. son, okay....
Doctor; Alright. So, the first thing we do...
Father: [To the baby} Go to sleep... Go to sleep. Go to sleep....
Doctor [Putting Betadine, an anti-infectant, on the baby's penis and scrotum]; Now this doesn't burn on anything. Also just the wetness alone will get them all excited here. [Baby cries again]
Father: Okay son. Okay....
Doctor: But, If he's quiet and doesn't move his legs, he's quiet. You watch the hands and legs! (They hate this....)
[Baby begins to scream, then shriek as two needle-nosed glamps are closed on the opening of his foreskin, a bigger clamp is inserted into the foreskin's opening, and the foreskin is torn away from the penile head.]
Doctor: What we've done here is we've completely separated all of the skin from the head of the penis- you can see the outline of the head of the penis, right?
Doctor: So we've taken the skin right down, here, right? Right down to that level we talked about.
Father [to the baby]: Okay. Okay... okay....
[The doctor makes the dorsal crush with the flat hemostats. As the baby begins to shriek over and over.]
Father: Is that the anesthetic?
Father: Is that the anesthetic, or?
Doctor: No that, that just crimps the whole thing.
[The baby begins to choke on spit in his throat while still shrieking- "gargling"]
Doctor; We'll let that sit for just a moment. K? What we could do is release his arms... [The doctor undoes the baby's arms from the velcro straps.] So he feels less.... [Baby continues to scream higher and higher.]
Father: I was aware that you'd use an anesthetic.
[The doctor makes the dorsal slit along the crush line with a pair of scissors.]
Father: I was aware that you'd uh use an anesthetic?
Dcotor: We mix into the mixure here...
Doctor: And that just takes the edge off it, okay? And uh...
Father: [To his baby] Okay, son....
[The baby continues to shriek and choke as the foreksin is laid back off the glans.. and the doctor wipes the blood from the glans with a piece of gauze, until there is no sound heard from him until he gasps and resumes shrieking and choking]
Father: 'I need your help'
Doctor: [In a soothing tone to the father.] Alright. We'll settle him down. [Baby's still sputtering.]
Father: [Neverously] Okay. No problem. No problem.
[The doctor assembles the Gomco clamp over glans and pulls the foreskin through the plate and over the bell with tweezers as the baby chokes and chokes and screams!]
Doctor: [To the father] Oh, he's gotten himself upset. [To the baby] I think Dadd'ys getting excited! Its okay Dad. We'll be okay....
[The baby continues to shriek and choke as the rocker arm is assembled on the Gomco clamp and the nut is tightened.]
[The baby keeps choking.]
Doctor: Nice big swallow he had there.
Doctor: ...now he got it out.
Doctor: We'll just let him sit a little bit.
Father: You're okay. You're okay.... Okay son. Okay..... Okay... Its almost done. Okay....
[The baby continues a bleating cry, alternating with occasional shrieks, while finally the foreskin is cut off in a circular motion with a scalpel against the bell of the clamp.]
[The baby stops crying and begins a quick, raspy panting as the ring of detached foreskin is cut off with scissors.]
Doctor: Okay now we let him sit for a little second.
[The doctor gets out some petrolium jelly.]
Doctor: Just so that uh... what it does is stop all- any potential for bleeding. Okay? So he's sitting there with the clamp on... and he seems to be... reLAXING a little bit! So we let him sit for a few minutes and that's it. [Baby still is panting loudly through his nose.] And uh, there's a drop or two here and a drop or two here- and that's your total blood-loss.
Doctor: Actually, at this point, what I do normally is go through the instructions with the parents cuz t gives a chance for that. So all we're gonna do is we're gonna change the diapers frequently, simply to keep the stool and the urine away from the area...
Doctor:...- something that you'd do anyway; you'd be changing him frequently. The big trick [the baby begins a plaintive cry.] is large amounts of Vaseline to that area.
Doctor: Okay? And this prevents the penis from sticking to the diaper.
Doctor. So each diaper change, just a great big glob. Now I put it on a piece of gauze here- just some people lift it into place, but when you're changing him, you can put it directly onto the penis, okay?
Father: Okay... [The father continues with various "Mmm -hmm's" and "Okay..." 's and "Rights"...as the doctor continues his explaination.]
[The baby still is crying and complaining off and on with the clamp still on his penis.]
Doctor: If he DOES soil himself with stool all over the cut area, right? You're gonna wash with a warm water, but you're not gonna use any soap until its heal cuz the soap will be hurting, right? You're also not going to rub it hard- just to remove the stuff, right? And the child remains, you know, settled on... comforatable or whatever his normal position is- usually on the back, right? After a few days or so, there's a white-yellowish, yellow tissue- like you burnt something? If you've ever burnt yourself or grazed yourself, you have this scab-like material that forms? Do not attempt to rub that off; its a normal part of the healing process, okay?
And then, the healing itself usually takes about 3, 4, 5 days, and at that point, after about 3 days or so, they can go straight into the bath. K? You don't want to dump him into the bath while he still has the open cut, right? Here's an important point, it says - "Keep the skin down"- This is particulary importnat point for HIM, because [Baby's Name] has- ummm ... uh.... he's kinda chubby in that area. So what happens is- is we've removed the skin to here- there's quite a bit of fat around the base here and sometimes what happens is the skin will push up over the head of the penis. So today or tomorrow while its still MOVEable -It won't be moveable AFTER that- but today and tomorrow you just watch- and you make SURE that it stays at the level it is. It should. It should. Just in case is does go up, we take the four tingers [uses the thumb and index finger of each of his hands as he demonstrates in the air] and push that skin down to its normal position so it HEALS at the level we want it to. Okay? That's what we mean by "Keep the skin down" over here. And once he's completely healed, there's no special, you know- ANYthing! - just wash and bathe as normal. You don't have to retract to clean cuz there's nothing there!
Ummm. ... I've never had an infection, but I have to tell you about it. Obviously if you have a foul odor or puss draining from that area or it gets all red, there's a possibility that there is an infection. Uh, what CAN happen at times is excessive or ongoing bleeding. Umm... Again: Its not something that happens USUALLY. Uh, you can apply a little bit of a cloth with some pressure; that usually stops it; if you can't stop it, it needs attention. And there shouldn't be any problem with him passing urine immediately after the procedure. So you'll know from that he's passing urine. This will go with you- [he hands him the instruction sheet he was just reading from[. so you don't have to remember ANY of that and we'll give him just a minute more and we'll take that off and you'll- you see that its the way you want it to be.
Father: So... there WAS some form of anesthetic...?
Doctor: A topical sort of things, yeah., yeah.
Doctor: Not MUCH- it just takes the edge off. And you see he's sitting with the clamp on, munching away.
Doctor: Now, there's a big debate, of course, about injections or others or whatnot... Its been done for thousands and thousands of years without ANYthing and it doesn't seem to be a problem.
Father [laughing nervously]: Yeah....
Doctor: Although, there's some recent research that comes out CLAIMING that there's... you know... [sarcastically quoting] "irreVERSEable damage done!'....So there's a LOT of people with a LOT of irreversable damange running around!
Do you live in the Midwest, by any chance? The circumcision rate is highest there.
I haven't shown my husband the video. Right now he just won't hear of it. His parents asked out of the blue if we were going to circ, saying it's the right thing to do, and that is going to make it really hard to sway him.
I don't understand how so many people are willing to put a newborn through so much, just so their genitals looks like they think they should! I really am shocked at my family right now. I really thought when they understood that there was no medical reason, that they would all agree with me!
Thanks for the link and the transcript, I will show it to dh and hope that does some good!
Only discuss it with your husband. Find out why he wants to do it and then counter his arguements. If you need help come here and we can help you come up with ideas. There is no good reasons to circumcise for cosmetic reasons or health reasons. Its a surgery surrounded by misconceptions and lies, we will help you expose those.
With your dh - make him research it. The default is that all babies get to keep the normal body parts they're born with, and surgery has to have a medically justified reason. If he can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that baby needs to have a circ for health reasons, then it ain't happening.
For you - take a look at this article. It may help explain where your dh is coming from. http://www.udonet.com/circumcision/v...ty_of_men.html
Just hang tough, mama. It will all blow over.
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I think many people are afraid of the unknown... the idea of an intact penis can be a confusing and scary thing! It is actually the most natural thing in the world and your son will be living proof of that. Your family will come around once they get over the misconception that an intact penis is "gross."
BTW, when i was in the hospital having my sons, I was the one to fill out the paperwork, including the circumcision authorization. If I remember correctly, they wouldn't do the procedure without the mom's signature. You may want to call the hospital you will deliver in and ask about this.
Good luck... sorry you are going through this. You are making the right choice!
I agree with the other people here who say that you should not be discussing this with anyone except your husband. If they aren't going to be supportive....put a block on their opinion.
A circumcision is a horible way to welcome a baby boy to the world. We don't welcome our baby girls into the world with forced genital cutting, why on earth would we for our boys? Circumcision is a preventable birth-trauma & no child should be forced to endure it. A circumcision does irreversible damage to the penis. Complications are very common and kept hush hush by medical professionals.
The male Prepuce has a function. Our bodies were designed perfectly, and there is a reason that the Prepuce is put there. Please watch the educational video called "The Prepuce" (purely educational) put out by Doctors opposing Circumcision:
It is down near the bottom of the page. Let me know if you have trouble viewing it. No one has the right to hack off part of another persons body without the express consent of that person. Please tell your husband to read some of these stories too:
many men grow up angry that this decision was stolen from them. They are now starting to tell their stories publically.
I grew up in a family who had all circumcized males and I only didn't know no circ existed til I met my ex. Anyways then I remember my mom when she first heard that I was not circing she was going OMG he's going to be the most sickest boy ever going to get all these diseases & infections she goes research on that and I go I did she goes research more.
My mom is a 'perfectonist' and she actually changed her view into as Pro-Choice than Pro-circ. She understands why I feel this way and she glad that i have a cause for protecting lil boys.
She did think my son's penis looked funny because she never 'seen an intact one before but that didn't mean she didn't love him any less. She no longer makes comment about it.
My brother circed as a boy don't know what he was told but he looks at it 'weirded ' out. He's very uncomfortable if he sees my son naked , getting diaper change but it proably pretty uncomfortable because he proably thought foreskin was a painless useless piece of skin so what's the reason behind me keeping him intact .
My brother and my son are best buds they love each other pieces and my son first word was my brother name.
To me I know with your dh it would be difficult maybe he thinks it will be more extra work since they may believe in the forced back 'retraction thing as in pull back foreskin to clean.
I would say all you have to do is wipe the external foreskin during diaper changes and during bath all you have to do is let him soak.
If ppl who are females say eww gross he has smegma that is good so do I and so do you.
Smegma is the vernix of the baby and also even circ boys get smegma too but less visible .
And thanks for the websites, those will be very helpful as well.
I just keep telling dh that if he really gets made fun of, really bad, and he just can't take it, he can always go do it himself, at least he'll be knocked out!
It is hard to go against the flow, when we decided not to vaccinate our dd, that was met with pure panic, especially dh's parents, who still freak out!
My family took it pretty well for the most part, being somewhat into natural health. That is also why I thought I could tell them, and they would understand there is no reason to do it. I just can't belive they have any opinion on my son's penis! Why does anyone even care??
I would also point out that with the changes in how many boys are being circ'd now and the knowledge that for many women, sex with an uncirc'd guy is better, your intact boy might very well get lots of positive attention for his uncirc'd self. My two BIL's are intact (dh is not) and although one hasnt actually had sex yet, the other is quite happy with his sex life, as is his girlfriend-who he has been with for a good 4 years. Apparently, he can have multiple orgasms and can go for as long as his gf wants. When she is done, he can finish quickly.
I know a lot of guys try to argue that they couldnt handle being more sensitive then they are. Well, I once read that it is like a car that runs great, goes super fast, but has crappy brakes. When you have a foreskin, you get the great car, still goes fast, but has the best brakes in the world. They have more sensitivity, but they also have a lot more control.
It doesnt really matter, it is your decision, but just let your dh know how much it hurts. There are more nerves in that skin than in any other part of the body. And despite how he feels now, I can say from experience that after changing an intact baby's diaper for 2 years (or more!), suddenly all those circ'd guys out there dont look normal anymore. Its the intact one's who look normal. You dont need to talk to the rest of your family about it, but I would try to convince your dh. And if not, keep that baby in your arms and dont let ANYONE touch him! My dh was circ'd against his parents wishes when they KNEW that they didnt want it done. Protect him!!
Whenever you need to talk with likeminded people, head over here. That's what I do...
Tallulah Dare 8-01, Marcos Gael 12-04, Cormac Mateo 9-09, Leonidas Ronan 11-11
|Katie's Mom: I just keep telling dh that if he really gets made fun of, really bad, and he just can't take it, he can always go do it himself, at least he'll be knocked out!|
1. Hey dude, why are you checking out my "unit"? Boys do not like to be thought of as homosexuals.
2. I'm really sorry that your parents had your genitals cut forcefully when you were just a defenseless baby.
I'll tell my son to pity them (the circumcised teasers) and I believe that it will counteract any negative feelings he might have. Once my son knows how lucky he is (maybe by seeing the video) I doubt he will be anything less then grateful.
Honestly though, a little discretion is all that is needed on your sons part, if your husband is really hysterical about the thought of him being teased. I also hope that he is perfect in every other way, 'cause kids can be cruel about all parts of the body. Luckily this part of the body will be in his pants most of the time.
About the teasing thing, yeah, most guys don't compare in the locker room. I've never met an intact man who was teased Depending on where you end up living (if you ever plan on moving) your son would probably be far in the minority if he was circumcised.
ETA - It should also be up to your husband to prove why it SHOULD be done (not by anecdotal family stories) since intact is default and circumcision is a major surgery (it IS). It should be proven by him that the benefits (of which there are none) outweigh the risks that aren't so common (hemorrhage, death, potentially being raised as a girl...) and the risks that are very common (skin tags, painful erections, infections....) and the risks that are inherent (losing a LOT of sensitive tissue....). I mean, if he could prove that it was SO beneficial that it was worth risking his son maybe losing his penis and being raised as a girl (which he won't be able to do) then maybe you'd change your mind, right?
love and peace.
: Circumcision can never be undone :
Their imaginary fears of what an intact penis might look like are so funny now. So overblown. Cuz an intact baby penis is just too cute to want to cut.
They'll come around, I bet. It's all well and good for them to hassle you about a "hypothetical" baby boy, but once they meet him, they'll realize how obscenely rude it is to insist on cutting pieces off him.
Hang in there!
Your family and friends are the ones that are uncomfortable and defensive about it so they feel they must "make" you see their side.
If anyone asks if you are going to circ simply say "why do you want to know?" with a look of complete innocence on your face. They will stammer around and try and phrase it a different way, tell you some story about their 85 year old grandfather who had to be circ'd, etc. Again, say "why do you want to know?" until they get the picture that it is not up for discussion. If they still insist just tell them your son's penis is not up for discussion. By refusing to answer you take away the argument.
Once your baby boy is born be careful who you trust to change his diaper. If and only if you can explain to them to never retract, simply clean as you would the end of your finger (just wipe) and trust that they understand and won't mess with it then show them exactly how to do it before letting them do it on their own.
If you act like it is not open for discussion before your son is born and raise him that he is the "normal" one, and for your religious family he was made in the image of God so who are we humans to make any changes and question his perfect design.
Your dh will come around, especially if he looks into it himself. He doesn't have to perpetuate the cycle just because he's circ'd. Tell him this story:
A woman always cut the end off of the roast before cooking her Sunday family meal. One day her husband asked her why she cut off the end. She said she wasn't sure, it was just the way her mom had always fixed it. So, she called her mom and asked her why they cut the end off of the roast. Her mom told her that she always fixed roast that way because her mom always fixed it that way. So, the woman called her grandmother and asked her why she cut the end off of the roast. Her grandmother replied that she did it because her roasting pan was too small and the whole roast wouldn't fit so she had to cut the end off.
When we know better we can do better.
Initially, I was going to let my husband make the decision as to whether or not we were going to circ our son (and he wanted to), but after thinking about it more and more the idea totally turned my stomach. I found MDC at the suggestion of a friend of mine because she felt I would be able to find like-minded people here. This particular forum helped me solidify my arguments against circumcision to convince my husband that it's a totally unnecessary procedure and will be very painful for our son. He agreed with me after being told it really doesn't have any health benefits and the risk of UTI, etc. is only slightly higher, but still not as high as it is for a baby girl and we wouldn't be cutting a girl's bits off to prevent it, so why should we do that to our son?
Talk to your husband and try to find out WHY he wants it done and then form your arguments from there. If he wants it done for aesthetic reasons, explain the risks of a botched circumcision to him and then ask him which he thinks is better. As with any surgery, there is ALWAYS a chance something will go wrong and some babies even die during circ!! Is that really a risk he wants to take with your son for the sake of simple aesthetics?????
Best of luck!!!!!
NOT your family.
STRESS that and see if that helps.
Also mention that he can do what he wants with his penis when he is old enough, and if he doesn't like the foreskin he's more than welcome to book an appointment and pay for it to be cut off.
But my daughter is twelve and we covered the whole issue back then as well, so they knew my feelings. I wouldn't bother arguing about it or trying to make your point of view understood. People really don't listen and are just as concerned about convincing *you* of their view, so it's a pointless conversation. It's just for you and your dh. If he wants to discuss it with his folks, great, but you don't have to, or factor in their opinions.
It can always be done later! But it can't be undone.
If you do have it done please make sure the baby is properly anesthetized, and be present. Dr. Sears discusses this in The Baby Book.
It's natural that people are attached to these issues when a new baby is on the way- one has an instinct to feel connected to all those ancestors and be one of a tribe, etc. So you find even atheists baptizing baby in their grandmother's christening gown, you know?
You say it will be hard to sway your dh. I say put your foot down, if you feel that strongly about it. Why does he get to be the stubborn one?
Just stand strong. If it comes up again I would tell them the facts: The AAP doesn't recommend it, it is cosmetic surgery, it is considered genital mutilation by many health organizations. Then, as everyone else has said, tell them it isn't up for discussion. Why oh why do people have to make an issue of this? Seriously, why can't they just leave it alone?
I just don't get why people think you should circumcise on the off chance that a kid one day when your son is 13 might just make a stupid uneducated comment. Why do people advise cutting off a piece of a baby's body to meet some sort of social pressure? I will never ever understand this. We are all different. We all have different hair, eyes, boobs, heights, weights, etc.... Why do people assume that all circumcised penises look the same? They are all different circumcised or not. It is the most assinnine reason to circumcise. It makes no sense whatsoever.
Ugh....sorry to go on, but it just makes me so mad!!!
|It's all well and good for them to hassle you about a "hypothetical" baby boy, but once they meet him, they'll realize how obscenely rude it is to insist on cutting pieces off him.|
Originally Posted by katiesmom
I have never posted here, but have been lurking for a while. I have a 4yo dd and am expecting a son in Oct. I DO NOT want him circ'd, and am even thinking of how I can kidnap him from the hospital before dh has his way (he's still not given in, and I'm certainly not going to)!
I have a very large extended family, and we are devout christians. So, I have no religious reason to do it either.
If they are big Christians this website may be eye opening!!
Why can't people just make the connection that if every single boy on the planet is born with foreskin there must be a good reason for it?!?!
DH and I haven't mentioned to family that we are going to leave our son intact. I figure it's none of their business. I did ask DH what is he going to tell his family when they ask why our son isn't circumcised and he said, "I'm just going to tell them that it's not recommended anymore and not necessary." I was like, oh, ok duh, that's easy enough.
As for your DH, the PPs have given great suggestions.
Originally Posted by Fi.
Mine didn't. They avoided him for almost the entire first year until they realised we weren't doing it no matter what.
I'm sorry. People can be so danged weird and irrational sometimes.
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