Need help with persuasive paper about RIC! - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 24 Old 03-26-2003, 12:05 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Hello there. First of all let me introduce myself, my name is Eric, I'm 16, and I live in Battleground, Washington. I am very anti-circ, and have been since i was about 12. I was thankfully left intact. Anywayz, I've been lurking here for a couple of months, and I finally need some help. My teacher assigned our class a persuasive paper to write. The topic could be anything, rape, abortion, war or anything. So i chose RIC. I hate the idea of Routine Infant Circumcision. And anywayz for the help part, i need some information on RIC, and everything relating to it. She wants us to have evidence, which is the info i just asked about, and I also have to have the opposing view, like pro-circs (those creeps) and why my teacher should take my side over their's. I can do this pretty easily because i have researched this thoroughly, but i need some links or information. I really appreciate every one in this forum, because someday RIC will end. I was in D.C. in April 0f 2000 for a vacation with my class, and we walked by the people with the sign that said" Stop Infant Circumcision" and it really pissed me off to see my friends and other people laughing about it.

Alright, enough of my blabbering. I would appreciate any help with this project. It's due in 3 weeks.

P.S. i really look up to you guys(Frank) and you girls because without this forum and other ones, I don't know what i'd do about this circumcision thing.

Thanx,
Eric

I hope it's okay that I'm a teenager, and not a mom.
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#2 of 24 Old 03-26-2003, 12:36 AM
 
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i should think anyone with a penis has an absolute right to voice their opinion here
we moms bid you welcome (and i know frank does too!)

links everybody? i usually just come here when i need one- i always know y'all can hook me up.

good luck with your paper, suse
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#3 of 24 Old 03-26-2003, 01:27 AM
 
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http://www.nocirc.org/
http://www.nocircnc.org/
http://www.noharmm.org/

http://www.cbel.com/circumcision_child_health/
I think this site ,if I remember correctly, has anti-and pro.

http://mothersagainstcirc.org/ for more info you can go to links at the bottom of the homepage.

I hope these links help and way to go!!!

Heather proud mama to an INTACT daughter and son!!

OUR DAUGHTERS ARE PROTECTED SHOULDN'T OUR SONS BE TOO! :
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#4 of 24 Old 03-26-2003, 03:25 AM
 
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Do you have to present the paper in front of the class? Or is the teacher going to be the only one reading it? And I admire YOU, for having the courage to take a stand about something you really care about. You rock!

And everyone is welcome...I'm not a mom either, (but I'm hopeful). YOu'll find this particular group to be very helpful for all things circ and intact related. Since you're intact, you'll need to know how to protect your penis from those evil doctors who will only want to cut part of it off. : We can help with that, too, if the time ever comes!

back on topic:

National Organization of Restoring Men...these are men trying to re-grow their foreskins, (sort-of), and who feel that they were violated/robbed/cheated...they have an interesting perspective about circ that most circ'd men just don't seem to have:
www.norm.org

OH and you can ask frank about that, too...I think we all know the journey his penis has taken over the years LOL! He's very, uh, "frank" about his own experiences and his restoration journey. Also, my boyfriend is a restorer, so i could get you some info from him as well. He's willing to share and educate others.

this one www.circumstitions.com has all sorts of info, pictures, diagrams, etc....medical diagrams you could print and show to the class about anatomy/functions of the prepuce/foreskin/penis.

Free Circumcision Video From Intact of Canada
http://www.intact.ca/vidphil.htm
I would show this to the class if it were me presenting the paper...however you might want to ask your teacher in advance. I don't want you to get suspended or expelled for showing everyone such a graphic video. Although I think the abortion video they showed us in high school was way more graphic...I almost hurled when they took a close-up of the vacuum tube and you could see the baby's arm in it. You might want to just Download it, burn it to cd if you can, and show it to people...I guarantee that it will freak them out and they won't ever want to do that to their kids...

That's about all I have for now...PM me if you need/want any restoration info or if you need any help with your paper (like proof-reading, verb conjugation, etc...I'm an english freak!)

good luck!


This is how i see you presenting your paper to the class:

That's how I am, anyway!:LOL

~Christy crochetsmilie.gif, mom to DD Sage (12-2003) joy.gif and DS Isaac (04-2012)  babyboy.gif, wife to Josh geek.gif.

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#5 of 24 Old 03-26-2003, 09:36 AM
 
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Eric:

I applaud you for what you are doing. I also want to warn you that you may be walking through a mine field. There are some very strong opinions on this subject and otherwise sane and rational people seem to lose it over this issue. If this paper is not critical, it may be O.K. If it is, you may want to reconsider. There is a very real possibility that it could affect your grades for the rest of the year. At the very least, I would feel the teacher out about how he/she feels about the issue. If the teacher feels the same as you do, it could be a home run for you or it could be a disaster.

That being said, your best source of information will be The Circumcision Information Resource Pages (www.cirp.org) where you will find a library of information. Be sure to stay away from any religious discussion. Be careful not to use any arguments that would be offensive or any words like "mutilation," etc. Carefully construct an outline to get your thoughts in order and to give equal weight to each area before you start to write the actual paper.

While I won't write the paper for you, I'll be happy to assist in the format, research and construction. Feel free to private message me here at Mothering.com for any assistance.

I also hope you will consider posting your paper here in the forum so we can all see the result.





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#6 of 24 Old 03-26-2003, 09:58 PM
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Frank, You're making teachers sound mean and vindictive!! We're not all like that. If a teacher assigns something this volatile, (where one could choose to write about abortion, etc.), she should expect to have an open mind when reading the papers.

Anyway, Eric, your parents should be proud of how they have raised you! Not only for keeping you intact, but for educating you on the issue, as well.
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#7 of 24 Old 03-26-2003, 10:09 PM
 
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Eric,

I would love to read the paper, too! I think we all would! Please post it, and let us know what grade you get on it!

And frank, since it's due in 3 weeks, I'm guessing he's only gonna have another month or so of school left after that...As long as Mr Eric has done well this far into the year, and he does well on his exams, he should be ok, even if she hates the paper...Most final exams now are given on anonymous, multi-choice bubble sheets. They don't associate an exam with a student, but with his/her SSN. Neat, huh? I think they do it that way in most schools now to eliminate the whole "my teacher failed me cuz she doesn't like me" argument/lawsuits.

~Christy crochetsmilie.gif, mom to DD Sage (12-2003) joy.gif and DS Isaac (04-2012)  babyboy.gif, wife to Josh geek.gif.

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#8 of 24 Old 03-26-2003, 10:39 PM
 
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Mama Julie:

I post on some other boards and see otherwise sane people go absolutely nutz over this. There is the perception that it is a personal attack and that the reader intentionally harmed their own flesh and blood. You never know how it's going to be taken.



Christy:

I'm glad it's done that way now. I had a problem like that. I have a very high IQ (That doesn't mean much) and my teachers knew it. They knew I also didn't apply myself to do my best and some didn't like that. I had one that really didn't like it. There was a serious blow-up in the principals office with me, my parents, the teacher and the principal. I won!


Frank
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#9 of 24 Old 03-26-2003, 11:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanx everyone for all the replies. Unfortunately no, i'm not presenting this in front of the class. My teacher is going to be the only one reading this, and my paper will probably only be about 2 pages. I'm sorry if everyone got the impression that I was going to present this, but it's not going to be huge. But if anyone asks, which i know they will, i'll tell them what i'm writing about. i think if i presented it, or showed a video, i would be killed. i go to a school with about a 90% hick population, and nothin would really go over well with these kids. When i go to college, to become an airline pilot, and computer stuff, if i ever have to present a topic of my choice to the class, it will definatley be circumcision. If i posted my paper on here, it would probably be crap. I'm only a sophomore and i can't write a good paper anywayz. But it's a good start, cuz when i'm older, i hope i can help with RIC. Also about the grades, i have only had A+ in her class and i have a 3.95GPA. She loves me as a student, and i emailed her about this topic i chose, and she told me to go for it, and yea like christy said, she couldn't fail me, and everything is by student id numbers. i appreciate all of this, and i might need some help writing this, but i doubt it. my parents don't know i visit this site, even though my dad is in the other room as i type this, and no one knows i have a clue about this or the circumcision topic. I know i have more to say, but i don't kow what it is at the moment, so i'll get back to you guys when i figure it out. I hope someday i can wrtie a book about RIC and circumcision.



Thanx all,
Eric
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#10 of 24 Old 03-26-2003, 11:49 PM
 
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don't get me started on the 'standardistas' and their testing- ugh. not good- i've only had one teacher (that was a burned out pita) grade me badly out of mutual dislike. i'll take my chances on a teacher any day. (and i got the highest psats in my grade level, and don't know sh*t- so it's not personal for me, lol.)

since everyone here likes to be well-educated i'll throw y'all a title to check out on the subject at the library, if you are interested:
'what happened to recess and why are our children struggling in kindergarten?' susan ohanian (i find it ironically amusing that it is published by mcgraw-hill, test-writers extrordinaire)

off my soapbox, suse (happy unschooling mom)
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#11 of 24 Old 03-27-2003, 11:09 AM
 
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Eirc- I think you have a very interesting assignment. I also believe that the ability to put your ideas into a clear format and the courage to speak them is a skill that will serve you better throughout your entire life more than any grade ever will.

If you only have two pages, my recomendation is to not get sidetracked by all the tiny details about the arguments for and against and the history with anti - masturbation or the religious ritual... stay away from all of that stuff and instead choose a very narrow stance on a specific aspect that is not about parental choice. Totally bypass the information that parents use to make the decision because in two pages you can not present the full picture and you only further the concept that this decision belongs to parents.

I think your best bet is to chose an ethical question and simply point it out. You don't even really have to make a persuasive argument, you simply have to state the facts which already exist.

One example would be that the current laws in the USA which outlaw FGM are unconstitutional because they fail to provide equal protection for males. It is illegal to make laws which only protect or apply to certain people. There is no arguing this, it's simply a given and you just need to point it out. You don't need to try to disprove a UTI study and persuade anyone of anything, you can just state the constitutional facts and then you have made a persuasive argument for why male circumcision should be outlawed or the anti FGM laws need to be done away with.


Another example is that Doctors are acting outside their jurisdiction when they circumcise infants. The AAP encourages parents to take cultural and religious factors into consideration... what authority do they have to suggest that? Do they give us recomendations on Baptism and the prom? They are a governing board of physicians and they are acting as much outside their professional guidelines as a policeman who would offer a massage. Once again, you can make a persuasive argument by simply stating the situation as it stands and drawing the obvious conclusion.

I am not implying that you lack the ability to make a real argumet at other levels, I just think it is really elegant if you can make a case that is so perfectly wrapped up that you don't even need to make any argument.

Here is an example, and this is written as a report, not an essay- of another ethical issue: http://www.annals.org/issues/v135n10...200-00004.html
I think looking at this might inspire you to see how it can be done.

It presents the problem of physician's willingness to assist in executions (the death penalty). The problem is presented and perfectly resolved without ever questioning if there should be a death penalty at all. (usually people would get sidetracked into that argument) The author recognises that the death penalty is not the question, the author simply states how physicians and their clearly outlines rules, can not ethicly assist the state in this matter.

Just as medical ethics should exclude them from doing a lethal injection on behalf of the wishes of the state, they also are excluded from doing a unnecissary circumcision on behalf of the culture of the parents.

Doctors Opposing Circumcision has info on medical ethics:
http://faculty.washington.edu/gcd/DOC/

The Sascatchewan memo has some potent ethical statemenets:
http://www.courtchallenge.com/letters/skcoll2.html

Margaret Sommerville has also made some great ethical points:
http://www.cirp.org/library/ethics/somerville4/

I would also like to see what you write when you are all done.

I also thought that you might like to read this little article about what parents should teach their children about intactivism. I am very proud of you for your desire to take a stand, but I am a bit confused about why you would feel embarassed to let your parents know. I think they would be very happy to know that you were so happy that they had protected you from that.
http://www.sexuallymutilatedchild.org/bisque.htm

There is also a group called Students for Genital Integrity, I think it's aimed more towards college students, but maybe you would like to contact them, they might have some support for your more within your own peer group.

Love Sarah
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#12 of 24 Old 03-27-2003, 10:06 PM
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Oh, Sarah has some great ideas. Yes, please write about genital integrity--all children have the right to keep their genitalia as nature intended.
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#13 of 24 Old 03-28-2003, 12:59 AM
 
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oh sarah, that was really impressive. very good advice.

suse
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#14 of 24 Old 03-28-2003, 11:14 AM
 
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The female genital mutilation law was passed in 1996. The constitutional law that should apply to protect males is the 14th ammendment (the Civil Rights Amendment) and the "Equal Protection Clause" contained in the 14th ammendment. This firmly applies to males but the courts have not been asked to enforce this law *yet* and to my knowledge, there is no case on the horizon. The Flatt vs. Kantak and William Stowell cases are both about consent. When an equal protection case is presented, it will be the "home run" attempt and we are trying to get the bases loaded at this point and bring up our home run hitter.



Frank
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#15 of 24 Old 04-03-2003, 08:54 AM
 
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So how does one go about introducing a bill to protect males from circumcision?
The more I read about this subject the more angry I get.I really do not understand WHY female genitalia is protected,and the male one is not.I know all *parts* have there purpose,but it seems to me that the foreskin has more importance than a females labia. I have read of that labia removal cosmetic surgery(labia getting in the way during intercourse for some),so when are we going to start cutting little girls(like boys) to prevent possible future labia-largeness problems?

I am taking an ethic class this summer(required for nursing pre-req).I have considered discussing genital mutilation of the sexes.
sara
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#16 of 24 Old 04-03-2003, 11:29 AM
 
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Sarah:

The type of bill you would most have a chance getting passed would be one to stop Medicaid funding. This is because there have already been bills passed in 11 state legislatures. I haven't heard of any outcry in any of those states so the chances of getting something passed are good.

You will need to identify the legislative committee in your state legislature that would orignate such a bill. You may be able to get the information from the state's website or it may take a few phone calls.

State legislatures only meet a few months each year. You need to time your campaign to start just a few weeks before the legislative session starts. There's power in numbers so get as many people as possible to help you. You can start with e-mails and letters and move on to phone calls and personal visits. You need to contact all of the committee members and the representatives who represent your district. Have the people helping you do the same.

When crafting written corespondence, make it short but concise. Long letters don't get read. You can help those who are helping you by providing an outline of the message to be communicated. Don't write a letter that they can sign their names to and send as is. Form letters don't get much attention after the first one.

You will need to keep up with the bill while it is in committee and support it through out it's journey from the committee to the govenor's desk.

You may want to contact organizations such as NOCIRC, NORM and NOHARRM to see if they have anyone in your area doing the same thing or you may be able to recruit from their membership to help with your effort.


Good luck!


Frank
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#17 of 24 Old 04-21-2003, 11:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I just typed up this report this morning at like 5:00 beofre school cuz the body and the intro of the paper were due today. I'm sure some of the facts are probably wrong, and the paper isn't that great, but that's why i'm posting it here, so that i can get help from and suggestions from you guys.


Here goes:


RIC. You may wonder what that is. It’s what happens to a baby boy every 26 seconds in the U.S. It’s cruel, unnecessary, and damaging not only to one’s physical, but also emotional and mental feelings. It only occurs routinely in the U.S., and 3500 baby boys are subjected to it every day. It’s called Routine Infant Circumcision, or RIC for short.

I’m very against RIC, because it’s unnecessary and harmful and there is no medically necessary reason to do it. Facts from NOHARMM, NOCIRC, and other organizations will be presented later on in this report. I believe you should agree with me and the mom’s and dad’s out there who are choosing not to circumcise their baby boys, because it is not medically justified, the infant has no say in the matter, sensitive tissue is cut away, and great amounts of sexual pleasure both for the woman and the man are cut away.

The opposing view is the pro-circs. They believe it is necessary to circumcise because of medical reasons. The UTI report was dismissed as a myth, and so were the other STD reports that intact men have a greater risk of contracting STD’s than circumcised men. All of them are simply not true. I don’t believe you should take this point of view because it is sick, mean, painful, irreversible, and just plain wrong. Would you circumcise your daughter? Absolutely not! So why should anyone circumcise their sons? The answer is they shouldn’t.

A lot of Americans believe circumcision is necessary for medical or hygienic reasons. That is simply not true. No medical agencies like the AAP, recommend RIC. There is no medically justified reason for RIC. None. The common myth is that a cut penis is easier to clean but that is not the case. All you have to do to clean an intact penis is just like washing your arms or face, just run water over it, you don’t even need soap. It’s basically self-cleaning. The circumcised penis for up to three weeks following the procedure requires constant attention, and the open wound can burn the boy every time he urinates, especially when he’s in a diaper. Some parents choose to circumcise so that it won’t be required when their son is older. But, that’s a contradiction in terms. Circumcise so you don’t have to circumcise when you’re older. 1 in 500 circumcisions result in a serious complication. 1 in 7,000 babies die from RIC. Un-reported numbers of babies have actually had their entire penises removed. It’s more common than you think.

Some parents think that circumcision would be in the best interest of their sons. Yes parents are supposed to do what they believe is right, but not when it involves one of the most personal and private parts of a human’s body. This is one of the main reasons I’m against RIC. The little baby is being strapped down to a circumstraint, and all he can do is cry and scream in terror, and more often than not, the baby goes into shock. That’s why people say, “well he won’t feel any pain, he has antiseptic, babies don’t feel pain,” and they are far from the truth. Babies feel more pain. The antiseptic usually takes an hour or longer to kick in and by then the doctor has already started slicing part of him off. I believe that RIC should not be performed on helpless babies because they have no say in the matter, and I can guarantee you that they wouldn’t want a very pleasurable part of them cut away.

This last paragraph is for female circumcision and male circumcision. Why does everyone freak when they’ve heard that a girl has been circumcised. Why don’t you freak when you subject your baby boys to a barbaric and un-needed procedure. I agree with most everyone that female circumcision is wrong. Very wrong. So is male circumcision. A man was recently arrested for circumcising his daughter a couple weeks ago in Atlanta, Georgia . His wife reported him to police and now he’s currently in jail. But why aren’t the doctors who are doing this to little boys every day, locked up? Female circumcision is against the law in the United States, but male isn’t. Something’s wrong here, and that’s that our baby boys are being tortured every day, while a lot of people think that it’s okay, but they think female circumcision is horrifying. Like I said earlier, if you won’t circumcise your daughter, then why circumcise your son.




It's not totally finished and i need help correcting it before she reads the final draft, and last night on instant messenger, my ex-girlfriend form 8th grade, asked me what my project was and i told her. she thought circumcision was necessary to allow boys to pee. i gave her some quick info and i'm 100% sure i can make her anti-circ. i feel that this will be the first person i convince.

Thanx very much,

Eric
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#18 of 24 Old 04-22-2003, 01:20 AM
 
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Very good points so far, Eric.
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#19 of 24 Old 04-22-2003, 01:40 AM
 
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Don't have time for many comments right now but three:

1) second to last para. you mean anesthetic not antiseptic

2) try to avoid slang like "freak" - try to use more formal English like "Why is it so disturbing for people to hear about female circumcision"

3) spell out any abbreviations the first time you use them - don't assume your reader knows what AAP, STD, etc. mean.

Good luck!

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#20 of 24 Old 04-25-2003, 03:19 PM
 
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Skim through these two articles for excellent fully-referenced facts.

http://mothering.com/10-0-0/html/10-...rcson103.shtml

- and -

"The Case Against Circumcision."
Mothering explores why circumcision is hardly ever necessary, and how parents can empower themselves to avoid ceding to the "claims" of the billion-dollar-a-year circumcision industry.
http://mothering.com/10-0-0/html/10-...cision85.shtml
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#21 of 24 Old 04-26-2003, 01:32 AM
 
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Hi Eric,
"America" is not the only place where infants are routinely circumcised. South Korea is actually the circumcision capital of the world. The procedure was unheard of in South Korea before the Korean War (thanks "America").
I don't know if you've already done your paper or not, but you could mention that the 1960's in "America" was the first time the western world had ever seen a majority population of circumcised men. Politically, America changed into something drastically different than what it had been.
Also, the modern world is a cauldron of war. And, in all of the wars, at least one of the warring populations is circumcised (usually, they both are). It's no coincidence.
Circumcision amputates the male G-Spot. This results in profound psychological issues for the man.
Good luck and you should be worshiping the ground you parents walk on for not doing you.
Jack
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#22 of 24 Old 05-08-2003, 03:33 AM
 
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Hi, Eric. You might want to check out the following thread

http://216.92.20.151/discussions/sho...threadid=57913

It's long but you may find an idea or two there. Summing up your points may be difficult and I hope you are making progress with the paper.
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#23 of 24 Old 05-10-2003, 02:23 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I've got bad news.
My teacher for no apparent reason decided to cancel the project for all the classes and we had to write about school lunches for our WASL tests, which counted as our persuasive paper. I'm pissed, but i think i'll still write the paper cuz a girl in my class wants to read it. Hopefully next year i'll get an oppurtunity to write about ric. This really sucks.

I want to thank everyone for helping me though, I really appreciate it. Everyone keep up the good work, and together eventually we can bring an end to this barbaric practice.

Eric
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#24 of 24 Old 05-10-2003, 08:37 AM
 
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Keep educating yourself about the facts, details and references and you will make an excellent spokesperson for the people you encounter in your life.
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