"well child" checks in prepubescent boys - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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#31 of 60 Old 09-26-2006, 08:37 PM
 
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DD had labial adhesions as a baby, which were only discovered when the doctor did the exam. It cleared up on its own by about 15 months, but the doc still wanted to take a look at her two year WCV, even though she saw at 18 months that everything was normal. I'm sure they'll try to look again next year, but I'm just going to put my foot down at that point. I remember being 3 and I would've been waaaaayyy uncomfortable having a doctor spread my vulva by that age. :
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#32 of 60 Old 09-26-2006, 08:38 PM
 
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Wow! THat's awful! Do you think your mom might have been worried about sexual abuse?
I can only assume maybe? I was with her pretty much 24/7 unless I was at my part time Christian preschool. She is a sick puppy though -- supposedly my older sister and I were punished as babies because we were "being filthy"(ie: some baby form of "masturbating"? god knows...) and I was whipped for wetting the bed at night when I was 4 and 5...I just can't get the cold creepy Dr. forced "check up" experience out of my mind -- and that was 20 years ago!
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#33 of 60 Old 09-26-2006, 08:41 PM
 
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I'm under the impression that with this circ happy doc, the fact that the kid had a foreskin meant that it was too tight.

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#34 of 60 Old 09-26-2006, 08:59 PM
 
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I'm so surprised that some schools are still requiring showers! Seriously, all of the school districts in our area (it might even be a state wide thing) do NOT require showering and most of the kids change in private. Niether me, nor dh had to shower at all. (we are pretty young-24-so this is pretty recently)
I remember they told us when I was in 6th grade that we would have to shower. I dont remember who it was but I remember how freaked I was. The thought of showering in front of a bunch of girls that I didnt necessarily get along with (I had friends, but also a lot of enemies, lol)...how embarassing. Turns out we didnt have to shower at all but it scared me so much I started asking to be homeschooled! Of course, it didnt help that I had huge boobs and bad acne already

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#35 of 60 Old 09-26-2006, 09:15 PM
 
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Personally I feel that we should _NOT_ be teaching our children that its bad to have a doctor look at your genitals. There's a difference between inappropriate touching and having a doctor look over everything.

Our 13yo has to shower in school, and if he was super modest because of his parents teaching him to be, it would be a large shock to him to enter 6th grade an then have to strip infront of his class mates. Thankfully we take the approach that you should be how you feel comfortable.

Sorry, I know thats OT.
My son is only two, so he can't tell the difference between a doctor and someone else. And I'm too lazy to be super modest in my own home.

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#36 of 60 Old 09-26-2006, 11:21 PM
 
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Showers don't bother me, testicular exams don't phase me, & we sure as hell are not modest around here; I have two boys running around naked right now, jumping on beds going "Woo flapper! Woo flapper!", but seriously, retracting a boy's foreskin is... intimate.

Intimate & invasive & highly inappropriate. There s no reason for it, & by God, not in a 12 yr old. A 12 yr old can be asked if he has a problem.

I have enough respect for my children's innate sense of privacy & dignity to have instructed them in the washing of their own genitals (since the age of about 18 months). I feel really kind of outraged that this is even being discussed. It is as incredible to me as insisting upon putting a speculum up a young girl.

This has nothing to do with modesty. It's bizarre & prurient & sexually intrusive, & I cannot imagine any 12 yr old being 'comfortable' with such needless fiddling with their genitals.
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#37 of 60 Old 09-26-2006, 11:28 PM
 
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Intimate & invasive & highly inappropriate. There s no reason for it, & by God, not in a 12 yr old. A 12 yr old can be asked if he has a problem.

I feel really kind of outraged that this is even being discussed. It is as incredible to me as insisting upon putting a speculum up a young girl.

This has nothing to do with modesty. It's bizarre & prurient & sexually intrusive, & I cannot imagine any 12 yr old being 'comfortable' with such needless fiddling with their genitals.

You said what I was thinking TigerTail :

 
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#38 of 60 Old 09-26-2006, 11:37 PM
 
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When I was 5 or 6, I remember my mom taking me to the doctors. She told me it was a checkup I needed for school -- but she had the doctor make me pull down my pants and underwear and lay back on my knees(even though I was fussing and saying "no")and spread open my vulva. The doc just looked is all(besides the cold fingers clasping my inner labia!!)...but you know, I still feel violated and lied to. I even remember the name of the doc and the whole thing very vividly. I don't know *what* my mother was doing...but even if she had a "good reason" to take me there and get me "checked out" -- how dare she lie to me! I've tried to confront her about it -- but she won't admit anything.

LOL sorry for rambling...bottom line is people need to keep their creepy hands away from children's genitals unless there is truly an issue!!
This was my experience too, except my mother did not ask to have it done. It was so disgusting and humiliating, even at that age.

I remember being about 12 and refusing to take my slip off, refusing the nurse and the doctor, after insisting that my mother not come back to the exam room with me. Now it would probably be a red flag for abuse (which was not the case) but I also feel lucky now that I was not forced to strip.
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#39 of 60 Old 09-27-2006, 01:52 AM
 
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I'm not sure about foreskin "testing" but I think that retraction is a very appropriate issue for a boys' doctor to discuss with him, many intact young men don't know they're suppsoed to retract it or that it's normal to retract and it isn't covered in sex ed in alot of schools.

It would be good if doctor's educated themselves on what is and is not normal in a boy of whatever age, and then if the boy believed there was a problem that boy could manipulate his own foreskin for the doctor.
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#40 of 60 Old 09-27-2006, 02:41 AM
 
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We havnt ever had a DR thats forcibly retracted Dan. Now that Dan is retractable, his dr does however retract him. She says .... "I'm going to retract your foreskin now, is that OK with you? ... Good, now if it hurts or feels weird say so right away."

I've always considered that normal.
Your son is over 12 years old and the doctor is still touching his perfectly healthy penis? I can't imagine any teenage boy being comfortable with a doctor touching his penis. He might feel like he has to say it's okay, but I bet he does not think it's okay. Perhaps I'm overly sensitive due to some abuse issues as a child, but honestly, this just gives me creeps that I have been unable to get over. I thought about it ALL day long - and I don't even have a son! It was on my mind all day because it made me feel violated just reading it, so I couldn't even imagine how it must make your son feel.
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#41 of 60 Old 09-27-2006, 04:51 AM
 
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: : :

Doctors here never ever touch genitals of boys/girls 'just because'. Ofcourse if there is a problem like diaper rash or something then they peek.

The whole idea doctor retracting foreskin is as appauling as doctor opening little girl's vulva.

As far as retraction. If there is no real problem, physical abnormality, doctors do not check or even ask if boy can retract his foreskin. If foreskin is still tight at age of 18 - which is extremely rare, young men can then deal with it themselves and go look for help.

And let me assure you...boys learn to retract - just like we girls learn to do other things totally without any help from outside.

Raise your hand girls, how many of you needed doctors help and guidance to learn how to masturbate?
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#42 of 60 Old 09-27-2006, 05:06 AM
 
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Kia!

And ditto to you too. Neither of my boys have had their penis touched (or retracted) by a doctor/nurse/midwife etc. It's just not done.
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#43 of 60 Old 09-27-2006, 11:26 AM
 
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When I was 5 or 6, I remember my mom taking me to the doctors. She told me it was a checkup I needed for school -- but she had the doctor make me pull down my pants and underwear and lay back on my knees(even though I was fussing and saying "no")and spread open my vulva. The doc just looked is all(besides the cold fingers clasping my inner labia!!)...but you know, I still feel violated and lied to. I even remember the name of the doc and the whole thing very vividly. I don't know *what* my mother was doing...but even if she had a "good reason" to take me there and get me "checked out" -- how dare she lie to me! I've tried to confront her about it -- but she won't admit anything.

LOL sorry for rambling...bottom line is people need to keep their creepy hands away from children's genitals unless there is truly an issue!!
Um, yeah. I remember the same type thing happening to me, only I was older, near puberty. My mom was in the room with me, but I remember him even putting a finger in, and then declaring I was near startin my menses. Seriously. How sick is that? Now that I'm a parent I know. No doctor will ever do such a thing to either of my children. :
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#44 of 60 Old 09-27-2006, 07:22 PM
 
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Well, my children's pediatrician NEVER looked at my DD's "parts" but EVERY time I go in with my son, he feels the need to "gently" retract" my DS's foreskin. We had a talk about it yesterday and I told him I wanted NO retraction done and he just kept arguing with me even AFTER reading the AAP's intact care sheet. Smegma is dirty and sticky and if we don't start gently retracting now then he won't be retractable by 3 yo and will cause phimosis, etc. I am at a loss. I really don't want to switch peds.....


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#45 of 60 Old 09-27-2006, 07:32 PM
 
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Well, my children's pediatrician NEVER looked at my DD's "parts" but EVERY time I go in with my son, he feels the need to "gently" retract" my DS's foreskin. We had a talk about it yesterday and I told him I wanted NO retraction done and he just kept arguing with me even AFTER reading the AAP's intact care sheet. Smegma is dirty and sticky and if we don't start gently retracting now then he won't be retractable by 3 yo and will cause phimosis, etc. I am at a loss. I really don't want to switch peds.....

I call BullSh*t!!!

Switch doctors. If he's gonna argue with the AAP statement you probably don't stand a chance of changing his mind. Additionally every time he retracts, gently or not, he is causing damage.

Your son deserves better.
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#46 of 60 Old 09-27-2006, 07:33 PM
 
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Well, my children's pediatrician NEVER looked at my DD's "parts" but EVERY time I go in with my son, he feels the need to "gently" retract" my DS's foreskin. We had a talk about it yesterday and I told him I wanted NO retraction done and he just kept arguing with me even AFTER reading the AAP's intact care sheet. Smegma is dirty and sticky and if we don't start gently retracting now then he won't be retractable by 3 yo and will cause phimosis, etc. I am at a loss. I really don't want to switch peds.....

Make him sign the intact care agreement and if he wont then the only option is to find a new dr. He is horribley ignorent about intact penis care. It is totally normal to not be retractable till teens and even into adulthood. And smegma is not dirty it actually helps keeps things out of there. I cant help but wonder how many boys this dr has sent for circ because they arnt retractable by 3yo

I would seriously consider contacting the lawyer Dave2G I think it is and have him send this dr a letter. It isnt a letter saying you will sue but tells him in no uncertain terms by trying to retract he is abusing the patient.


Also if he is this ignorent and unwilling to learn about this issue what other issue's could he be uninformed about?? I wouldnt want someone like that around my child.

 
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#47 of 60 Old 09-27-2006, 07:44 PM
 
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I told him that as long as he is retractable by the time he is married.....LOL

He didn't think it was funny.

And went on to say that 80% are retracteble by 3 and 100% by 5. He refused to even look at the information I printed off from NOCIRC.ORG because he said "you need to be careful who you get your information from" and that those NOCIRC people " are completely against circumcision." Well, DUH?!?!? SO AM I! But that article actually said "leave it alone" so I was hoping he would read it.

How do you go about getting an intact friendly doc? Do you call around and interview them all on their circumcision opinion or what? I really don't want to change Docs....this Doc is supposedly one of the TOP DOCS here in Arizona and we have been seeing him for 3 years.....

:

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#48 of 60 Old 09-27-2006, 08:19 PM
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I told him that as long as he is retractable by the time he is married.....LOL

He didn't think it was funny.

And went on to say that 80% are retracteble by 3 and 100% by 5. He refused to even look at the information I printed off from NOCIRC.ORG because he said "you need to be careful who you get your information from" and that those NOCIRC people " are completely against circumcision." Well, DUH?!?!? SO AM I! But that article actually said "leave it alone" so I was hoping he would read it.

How do you go about getting an intact friendly doc? Do you call around and interview them all on their circumcision opinion or what? I really don't want to change Docs....this Doc is supposedly one of the TOP DOCS here in Arizona and we have been seeing him for 3 years.....

:
Go to the Doctors Opposing Circumcision website, and email them for a reccomendation of a foreskin friendly doctor in your area. Also tell them the name of your Dr so they can put it on the blacklist of foreskin ignorant Dr's.
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#49 of 60 Old 09-27-2006, 08:33 PM
 
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this Doc is supposedly one of the TOP DOCS here in Arizona

Obviously on this issue he is not a top Dr. and I cant help but wonder as well what else he isnt up to date on.

 
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#50 of 60 Old 09-27-2006, 08:58 PM
 
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Um, yeah. I remember the same type thing happening to me, only I was older, near puberty. My mom was in the room with me, but I remember him even putting a finger in, and then declaring I was near startin my menses. Seriously. How sick is that? Now that I'm a parent I know. No doctor will ever do such a thing to either of my children. :
OMG! How awful, that is just sick, sick, sick! My dr. was a female so I guess that made it "ok" in my mother's eyes. I can't believe so many parents utterly fail to protect their children from these kinds of violations!!
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#51 of 60 Old 09-27-2006, 10:01 PM
 
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OMG! How awful, that is just sick, sick, sick! My dr. was a female so I guess that made it "ok" in my mother's eyes. I can't believe so many parents utterly fail to protect their children from these kinds of violations!!

My mom (a nurse) felt it was okay to leave me alone at 8 years old with a pediatric urologist who turned out to be a child rapist. I was a victom with my mom out in the waiting room. Every month for 2 years. I think some parents are just unaware of what they really need to protect thier children from.

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#52 of 60 Old 09-27-2006, 10:44 PM
 
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How do you go about getting an intact friendly doc? Do you call around and interview them all on their circumcision opinion or what? I really don't want to change Docs....this Doc is supposedly one of the TOP DOCS here in Arizona and we have been seeing him for 3 years.....

:
YES you interview them

When we chose our pediatrician we interviewed her and asked her opinion of circumcision. We also didn't tell her ours ahead of time so we would get her honest answer and not just what we wanted to hear.


BTW a doctor who also speaks spanish has probably seen more intact boys.

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My mom (a nurse) felt it was okay to leave me alone at 8 years old with a pediatric urologist who turned out to be a child rapist. I was a victom with my mom out in the waiting room. Every month for 2 years. I think some parents are just unaware of what they really need to protect thier children from.


It's the whole "Man in the white coat wont hurt me!" delusion your mom suffered from...and unfortunately too many people suffer from this same delusion...

Dr's = Human

Human = Fallable

Dr's < God

nuff said
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#54 of 60 Old 09-27-2006, 10:51 PM
 
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BTW a doctor who also speaks spanish has probably seen more intact boys.
: I know that before we knew our DDs sex we were looking for a foreskin friendly doc. I ended up deciding on a Greek one who I know was born there partially because I knew he still had his. (I know his brother).

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#55 of 60 Old 09-27-2006, 10:55 PM
 
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It's the whole "Man in the white coat wont hurt me!" delusion your mom suffered from...and unfortunately too many people suffer from this same delusion...

Dr's = Human

Human = Fallable

Dr's < God

nuff said
Till the day she died!! Partially from her own neglect and partially because of the docs she trusted "to death" in the hospital.

I haven't trusted one since I was 8 and I don't think I ever will again. Thank the gods for MDC and all you great moms!!

Victim of Birth Rape & Coerced ribboncesarean.gifUnnecesareanribboncesarean.gif What makes people think they can cut up someone else's genitals? nocirc.gif
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#56 of 60 Old 09-28-2006, 01:39 AM
 
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My mom (a nurse) felt it was okay to leave me alone at 8 years old with a pediatric urologist who turned out to be a child rapist. I was a victom with my mom out in the waiting room. Every month for 2 years. I think some parents are just unaware of what they really need to protect thier children from.
I am so so so sorry. This made me gasp reading it. s

R~mama to 3

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#57 of 60 Old 09-28-2006, 03:00 AM
 
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And went on to say that 80% are retracteble by 3 and 100% by 5. He refused to even look at the information I printed off
You should report that uneducated 'doctor' to his bosses or somewhere(I do not know where things like this are reported in USA). He is not only harming your son but who knows how many others?

The bottom line is that you are a customer buying a service from him. You do not need to argue with this matter. You simply state that he is not allowed to touch your sons genitals. End of discussion.
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#58 of 60 Old 09-28-2006, 04:04 AM
 
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Today we went in for well check for 2 years. The nurs prac, who I like the best of the whole practice asked to look under diaper. I said, before you do, I do not want you to touch his penis at all or check for retraction, she said ok and she didnt touch him at all, just eyeballed that area. I am thinking it might be for like... some kind of abuse check? Although, if I were putting cigs out on my kids butt I dont think Id be at a well check... but anyway. I was glad she agreed and didnt give me any problem with it. I really dont know how she feels about it, but she didnt say "oh but you know.. they really should be retracting by.. blah blah".

Doubt we will go to well check 3 year.
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#59 of 60 Old 09-28-2006, 09:30 AM
 
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My son had a physical last May there is a reason to physically check for hernias. He had his underwear on the entire time. My dh was in the room and the doctor explained everthing right up front to my son but he never mention a thing about my son's forskin nor touched it. I cannot tell you the last time I saw my son naked, nor my dh. There needs to be more communication of what is normal for males. Men's penis, testicals, or scrotums unless being laughed at are not discussed. Nor is mens penile health unless of course it is for a perscription of viagra. There is little to no talk about males needing to do monthly self exams. There is little to no explantation of why the doctor might check the scrotal regions, want to ask men about humilating? Most of them will, and are expected to laugh it off though.

The realities are men are more likely to die from prostate cancer and testical cancers than women breast cancer. We need to educated and enpower or sons on their health. Instead of saying no touching teaching them to ask questions, research, and letting them know it is ok to say no and comeback later after they do their research.

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I also don't think it is always appairent that our children have hernias. They can hide or only be noticable while crying or straining. If you are a child with a hernia if you always had pain while straining then you might assume it is normal.
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Originally Posted by Marsupialmom View Post
My son had a physical last May there is a reason to physically check for hernias. He had his underwear on the entire time. My dh was in the room and the doctor explained everthing right up front to my son but he never mention a thing about my son's forskin nor touched it. I cannot tell you the last time I saw my son naked, nor my dh. There needs to be more communication of what is normal for males. Men's penis, testicals, or scrotums unless being laughed at are not discussed. Nor is mens penile health unless of course it is for a perscription of viagra. There is little to no talk about males needing to do monthly self exams. There is little to no explantation of why the doctor might check the scrotal regions, want to ask men about humilating? Most of them will, and are expected to laugh it off though.

The realities are men are more likely to die from prostate cancer and testical cancers than women breast cancer. We need to educated and enpower or sons on their health. Instead of saying no touching teaching them to ask questions, research, and letting them know it is ok to say no and comeback later after they do their research.

***********
I also don't think it is always appairent that our children have hernias. They can hide or only be noticable while crying or straining. If you are a child with a hernia if you always had pain while straining then you might assume it is normal.


I know! Dr's should be more apt to educate men on their various body parts than to just chop them off!

My DH gets a yearly exam (Because he's Military) And even if he wasn't he'd go anyway. He does the full round, and will be getting the reccomended prostate exam when he hits age 40, OR If he shows symptoms of prostate enlargement before then. He does monthly self exams of his testicles because that's what the medic taught him in basic, check himself for cancer, and it was doubly important when he was on ship, so it was twice a month then.

We have all sorts of hype for womens reproductive and breast health, but what about the men? seriously? I LOVE Spike TV's attempt to get more men into the routine physical thing. I thought that was a great idea, and more networks should do that...there really SHOULD be more awareness about Male reproductive health taught in schools, put out on commercials, and whatnot..

Not everyone joins the military....and not everyone has insurance to go to a Dr each year...so it's up to them to know the symptoms, and to do self checks. Heck, most men/boys can check THEMSELVES for a hernia if they know what to look for!

But the difference between a grown man going in for his yearly physical (and Grown woman going in for hers) and a child, is, the grown adult is fully knowledgable and consenting to what is going to happen in that exam, be it a testical turn your head and cough exam, a pap smear, a prostate/rectal exam. The child does NOT, and should be told by the Dr what he/she is going to do and have full right of refusal if they so wish. Just like an adult. When younger, it's up to US to advocate for them. "I need to take a look at his/her genitals" Your answer should be "Why, what purpose, what exactly will the exam entail, will you insert/retract/spread," If any of the answers do not satisfy you you can refuse the exam on behalf of your child, who is too young to really say yes or no. At around age 3 + when they can make their wishes expressly known, if they say no, you stand up for them and say NO as well.

My child's bodily integrity above all else. I'll teach her the need for routine sexual health when she gets to the age of NEEDING routine sexual health checks, same with my son. And to tell me if anything is going wrong down there, because children know their bodies better than we do.
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