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Old 11-12-2006, 06:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by JuJuBees View Post
why do people restore? and wouldnt it be differnt?
Well, restoration helps men to gain some of the feeling back. If the head of the penis is kept covered, the extra layers of calloused skin peel off, and it becomes more sensitive. The head of the penis is meant to be an internal organ, covered by the foreskin. (except during erection and sex) The area under the head (frenelum) is the most sensitive part of the penis, (akin to the clitoris on a woman) and is usually removed during circumcision, and that part can never be recovered, even with restoration.

The extra skin glides during sex the way it was meant to after restoration, and sex is more comfortable for both the man and the woman. (Read, that sore "rubbed raw" feeling "down there" on the woman after sex is no more, etc.) The build of an intact penis was meant to join and mesh perfectly with the woman's body during sex. Restoration helps to restore most of that fuction.


There have been many reports of woman who are married to intact men never, or rarely need lubrication. That's because the natural function of the intact male and intact female harmonize the way it was meant to. Restoration helps brings the man's body back to the way it was originally meant to fuction in harmony with the woman's body.
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Old 11-12-2006, 06:13 PM
 
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why do people restore? and wouldnt it be differnt?
Anything you ever wanted to know about restoring;

http://www.norm.org/

Both women and men have something called glans. Glans is meant to be internal organ and only 'come out' when person is sexually aroused. It should look pink, be moist and very tender. Women call it clitoris, on men it is the head of penis.

Now imagine if your clitoral hood had been removed when you were born. Your clitoris would have been exposed all these years, rubbing against clothes, drying etc. How much do you think it would feel anymore? The same thing happens to men when they are circumcised. It is called keratinization. When you look at penis of circumcised man, the end of penis, the glans, is dry and certainly not pink. The body - trying to protect the glans from unnatural exposure grows extra skinlayers over the glans.

More here; http://www.noharmm.org/IDcirc.htm

Also when babies are circumcised the results are seen 20 years later, very often too much has been taken and erection can be painfull.

Look at these pictures - men often think that they have just had bad luck when they have penile problems, not realising that problems they have are due to circumcision;

http://www.infocirc.org/townsend/problem.htm
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Old 11-12-2006, 06:21 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by kxsiven View Post
wow. all those pics look like normal (yet, funny looking) penises that i have seen my whole life.
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Old 11-12-2006, 06:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by JuJuBees View Post
why do people restore? and wouldnt it be differnt?

Hi Welcome to CAC. My husband is restoring for many reasons. The first of which is that way too much skin was removed when he was circ'd and it causes him to have tight painful erections that force his testes into his abdomen. His penis also has a severe curvature that limits our love life. For years he was told that his penis was normal. After coming here and learning about circ we discovered the true cause of his pain. Restoring slowly allows for new skin growth. This has already helped with the pain involved in his erections.

The second is kerantization of the penis. Since it is always dru and rubbing on his pants the glans has become quite thickened and calloused for lack of a better word. He essentially had no feeling to light touch in it when he began. Since the glans is now covered with skin during the day, it has began to thin and he has noticed increased sensation.

Third when he is done he will have enough extra skin to provide the gliding motion during intercourse that the natural foreskin provides. This will help in lubrication issues and decreases soreness for the female because it reduces the ramming motion.

No, his restored foreskin will not be the same as a natural one. He cannot regrow his frenulum or the band of tissue that holds the foreskin over the glans like a drawstring. Can't think of the name of that at the moment. But it is as close as he can get to what was taken from him.
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Old 11-12-2006, 06:56 PM
 
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wow, everything i would have said was pretty much covered by pps.

the only thing i could possible add, as vulgar as this might seem, i really just didn't want to limit my son. my dh was the first uncirced man i'd been with, and after careful thought and research, i realized what all those other guys were missing. it effects a man's size, sensation, and ability.

also, the first day i held my son in my arms, i was like, "how could anyone opt for an elective surgery without a good reason?!" it seemed so ridiculous. someone asked me, "eww... aren't you afraid he'll get picked on?" i said, "for what having the biggest most functionable penis in the locker room? no, i'm not."

and how about this? do you know anything about female circumcision? its a middle-eastern practice where little girls around 5-years-old got to the village "doctor" and have their hood, clit, and labia chopped off with sharp rocks or rusty knives, then their holes are sewn shut to only allow the passing of fluid, to ensure virginity until marriage. they are never again able to feel real sexual pleasure. plus they're vaginas are permanently mutilated. i bet the whole time you read that you were thinking, "wow, what backwards third world barbarians would do that???" well, now think about what is really going on in the u.s. with male circumcision, maybe its in a bright shiny "surgically clean" environment, with more expensive tools, but its still as backwards and barbaric and disgusting as female circumcision. and you want to know what? little girls in the middle east that aren't circumcised are considered "abnormal."

in my experience, when it comes to my kid, if its considered the norm, and everyone does it, you might want to ask what kind of sick propaganda has created this? hell, til not too long ago, educated men said women couldn't vote, people of color were sub-human, gays all had aids and anyone noy christian should be burned at the stake.

thank god for us inferior beings and our stupid questions!

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Old 11-12-2006, 07:01 PM
 
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Hi Veezie, & welcome!

Fwiw, many male circumcisions are done to older kids with rusty knives, as many deaths, etc. Many female circumcisions are done (and FGM is not just the rarer drastic infibulation, but clitoral hood removal directly analogous to the foreskin. Prepucectomy is prepucectomy) in sterile 'modern' conditions.

It's just a matter of where you live, your local customs, & how much money you have, whatever your child's sex.
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Old 11-12-2006, 07:13 PM
 
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i have heard of more modern fgm practices, i was just siting that particular prcedure which is still done all over the middle east (and africa, and asia as well, i believe) to show the shock value of circumcision as a whole.

and hi!!

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Old 11-12-2006, 07:18 PM
 
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I know, I have just been researching recently the MANY deaths from rustic circs which happen to boys all the time under the same conditions, & it was fresh in my mind.

They always (in the news reports) called them 'botched' circumcisions (really, google the phrase, & see how many infections kill African boys every year from 'botched' circumcisions, whereas the girls that die from the exact same horror are called what they are, genital mutilation.)

I think I am going to refer as FGM deaths as occurring from 'botched circumcisions' from now on, to make a point.
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Old 11-12-2006, 08:05 PM
 
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I haven't read this whole entire thread.

To the OP: Please watch the video. Watch it again. Listen to the baby's screams. Think about how you would feel if someone were cutting on you. Think about the fact that nature would not make a terrible mistake when it comes to the genitals. The genitals are necessary for reproduction. They are made perfectly to ensure survival of the species.

Just read the articles, watch the videos. You will then see for yourself.

We don't need to show the other side. The other side shows itself once you do those things.
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Old 11-12-2006, 10:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Dillpicklechip View Post

Regarding pain, no physician worth his salt would ever do a circumcision without freezing the area first. My son had an analgesic cream, and the doctor was very careful to make sure the cream had had enough time to work before she did anything. And she said that during the procedure he didn't even cry.

As I said, just make sure you get a lot of info before you make a decision.
Sorry, I know I am late (very) to jump on this, but I have to. First off, something like 95% of doctors DONT use any anasthesia. At all. A lot of doctors even lie to the parents and say that they were given something. Just watch the circ video on here-the father keeps asking about the pain meds and the doc keeps saying oh yeah, we gave him something, when they obviously didnt.
Secondly, if you were not in the room, you cannot believe a thing they said. Do you really think a doc or nurse would come out and say "oh yeah, he screamed his head off?" Yeah, doubt it. Of course they are going to say oh he hardly cried or he slept right through it. I got news for you. NO anesthesia relieves all of the pain of a circumcision, unless its general or they have a penile nerve block-and are able to confirm that it is completely numb. I have seen a lot of circs now-I am becomming a RN. Though I refuse to assist with circ's, I have still seen a LOT of them done. I have seen one baby out of around a hundred who didnt cry. He was very much the exception. Every other baby cried. Every one of them.
Sorry, I am just sick and tired of all of these people who say "well, he hardly cried" or "he slept right through it-the doctor/nurse/whatever said so". If you werent there, dont tell me how it went. And it ticks me off that so many parents insist on having their sons circd and then are too chicken to even stay with them. GRRRRRR!!!!!
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Old 11-12-2006, 11:19 PM
 
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Originally Posted by njeb View Post
2. Elderly men. Nurses have to take care of them, and sometimes complain about how "gross" their penises are. Most old men were born at a time and place when circumcision was not universal, and neither was good hygiene. Also, they're in a nursing home because they can't take care of themselves. Old men who previously had good hygiene no longer do.
I'm thinking that some of us girls might not be so lovely down below if we are unable to care for ourselves at that point, so it's not an intact penis issue IMO...

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Old 11-12-2006, 11:23 PM
 
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Yeah, to the one gross infected foreskin pic the pro-circers have to dredge up every time, I have sure seen a buttload of really revolting vulvas on dermatology sites. Still doesn't make me want to cut mine off.

I think I will go take a nice bath though .
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Old 11-13-2006, 12:07 AM
 
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Originally Posted by buckeyedoc View Post
I'm thinking that some of us girls might not be so lovely down below if we are unable to care for ourselves at that point, so it's not an intact penis issue IMO...
That's true--we wouldn't be. I believe, however, that you missed my point, which was that improper hygiene due to disability is blamed on the inherent qualities of the foreskin, not on the disability.
One of the unpleasant duties of nurses' aides in nursing homes is to bathe their clients who are unable to wash themselves anymore. Too often on this board, I have seen that this is used as an excuse for circumcising newborns, the fear that they will become gross old men. That is what I was referring to above. I do NOT think that this should be used as an excuse for mutilating newborns.
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Old 11-13-2006, 12:25 AM
 
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Originally Posted by TigerTail View Post
Yeah, to the one gross infected foreskin pic the pro-circers have to dredge up every time, I have sure seen a buttload of really revolting vulvas on dermatology sites. Still doesn't make me want to cut mine off.

I think I will go take a nice bath though .
Tigertail!

Welcome to MDC and...
Please don't circ your son. Let this be his first lesson in fitting in is not everything.

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Old 11-13-2006, 02:49 AM
 
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but my husband was cut at age 11 years, and to him, it was excruciatingly painful. but moreso when he peed.

To bm31, if you said you were recut at age 6, i wonder if your glans was already exposed before that, because if it was, then it would have already had 6 years worth of keratinazation (sp?) on the parts that were exposed the most, you know?
My glans was completely covered because of a very loose original circ, but it was not attached because it had initially been separated the first time. It was still very sensitive. I wouldn't argue that your husband found it painful. I'm sure I didn't enjoy it either at the time, and I remember how badly it burned the first time I urinated. But honestly, the childhood/medical memory of pain that really stands out for me is when I had a broken arm reset.
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Old 11-13-2006, 06:16 AM
 
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Originally Posted by TigerTail View Post
Trust me, my kids don't wonder why they weren't cut like daddy; they wonder why poor daddy was cut in the first place.
Just a and, well said!
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Old 11-13-2006, 10:34 AM
 
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My glans was completely covered because of a very loose original circ, but it was not attached because it had initially been separated the first time. It was still very sensitive. I wouldn't argue that your husband found it painful. I'm sure I didn't enjoy it either at the time, and I remember how badly it burned the first time I urinated. But honestly, the childhood/medical memory of pain that really stands out for me is when I had a broken arm reset.
My two youngest boys (8 & 5) have loose circs. Their glans were covered and the body attempted to heal itself by re-attaching. They are very sensitive the older they get when material of any kind touches the glans. I am not sure if it is painful so to speak, but it is definately uncomfortable for them. My eight year old always says it feels weird and he doesn't like it touching anything. Their glans are still 3/4 covered, but they would both spend a large portion of the day pushing their glans back under the remaining foreskin. My eight year old is probably loosing some of his sensitivity already b/c he doesn't do this as much as he used to. My five year old is constantly pushing his glans back under the remaining foreskin. He has told me it hurts when it comes out.

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Old 11-13-2006, 12:50 PM
 
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Trust me, my kids don't wonder why they weren't cut like daddy; they wonder why poor daddy was cut in the first place.
fabulous! Reminds me of my brother, when he found out what circumcision was (he's intact, our dad cut), and he said, horrified, "why did you let your mother cut off part of your penis" and my dad answered, "I didn't get much say in the matter." That conversation is telling on so many levels. My brother wanted to know why my dad LET HIS MOTHER do it. No blaming the doctors when your 4, moms are in charge. My dad said he didn't get a say. So true. My dad is horrifed by the prevalance of circumcision. He speaks out about it.

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:Puke :Puke :Puke :Puke :Puke
It gets worse and worse and worse. : : :
it sure does.

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Old 11-13-2006, 01:00 PM
 
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When your son is born, his whole world is you and your dh. Please, don't commit an act of violence against him "for his own good." Or for any other reason. Human beings can survive an amazing amount of trauma. That doesn't mean they should have to.
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Old 11-13-2006, 02:34 PM
 
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My two youngest boys (8 & 5) have loose circs. Their glans were covered and the body attempted to heal itself by re-attaching.
Yes, mine did the same. As far as I can remember, mine mostly attempted to re-attach around the rim of the glans. It was a constant, losing battling to try and re-separate, which is what led to the re-circ. To this day, I can still see permanent adhesions (large skin bridges maybe?) around the majority of the rim of my glans. I would leave your boys well enough alone. In my experience, no good can come from another circ or any further meddling.
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Old 11-13-2006, 02:39 PM
 
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Yes, mine did the same. As far as I can remember, mine mostly attempted to re-attach around the rim of the glans. It was a constant, losing battling to try and re-separate, which is what led to the re-circ. To this day, I can still see permanent adhesions (large skin bridges maybe?) around the majority of the rim of my glans. I would leave your boys well enough alone. In my experience, no good can come from another circ or any further meddling.
Unfortunately, my middle son was re-circ'd at 1.5 years old. When my youngest started with the same issues, I tried to separate the glans and just couldn't put him through the pain. I finally left it be and I figure it will be fine on its own. He hasn't seen a doctor about it and I have no plans to take him.

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Old 11-13-2006, 03:24 PM
 
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Unfortunately, my middle son was re-circ'd at 1.5 years old. When my youngest started with the same issues, I tried to separate the glans and just couldn't put him through the pain. I finally left it be and I figure it will be fine on its own. He hasn't seen a doctor about it and I have no plans to take him.
Good for you for leaving your youngest alone. My re-circ was a complete botch job, so I just see that as allowing them another opportunity to screw something more up. Hopefully your middle son's wasn't as bad. I'm sorry I can't give you any testimony on the adhesions releasing on their own later as mine weren't allowed to do that. From an older, adult perspective, I would've much rather had those than what they ended up doing. The ridge of my glans was still mostly destroyed from all the reseparations and then I went to an overly tight circ as well. They just couldn't leave it alone.
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Old 11-13-2006, 03:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by JuJuBees View Post
if it is less than 1% how come i hear about it so frequently happening? i have heard of several cases, and i dont know many intact men.
Funny, I here about it all the time to. no one I know in real life it's always "the reason I circed is because a friend of a friends uncle had to have it done when he was 40" etc I wonder how many of these stories are actually true because both my son's are intact as well as all stepfather, FIL and all his brothers, elderly patients I use to take care of, and all of my friends son's and no one has ever had a problem what-so-ever.

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Old 11-13-2006, 04:17 PM
 
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I DO have people in my life that had to be circ'd at an older age - my BIL and my younger brother. I don't talk to them personally about it, but I assume that if they had been left alone, they would have been fine. My SIL used the fact that her dh was circ'd at an older age to tell me I was wrong not getting ds circ'd. BIL was silent, though I suppose he believes it as well. My brother had his son circ'd too. Two of my nephews are intact, and I've not heard of any problems there.

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Old 11-13-2006, 04:42 PM
 
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i think the boys/men who 'had' to be circed probably didn't have to be. if it was because of recurrent infections, obviously a lifestyle and diet change and the use of meds if necessary would solve the problem. i think infection is probably the most common reason i've heard of. Americans are pretty toxic and docs here are knife happy.

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