Health officials back circumcision in AIDS fight - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 65 Old 12-13-2006, 10:59 AM - Thread Starter
 
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: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16184582/
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#2 of 65 Old 12-13-2006, 11:31 AM
 
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There is multicausal stuff going on here...like we've talked about dry sex being one of them..refusal to wear a condom.

Here's another interesting article about how Malaria increases the rate of infection.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16095390/

I think it's interesting how in Africa having a foreskin "causes" hiv infections to rise according to the US media. But in other countries it is unsafe sex practices which cause HIV risk.
:

Only safer sexual practices will protect you from aquiring HIV. African countries are so desperate apparently they want to try anything at this point. Though, remember the US has the highest infection rate of a developed country AND is the only one where the majority of men are circ'd. So, that experiment here doesn't work.

And, what about these studies in Africa...did it track the corresponding rate of infection in women? Dry sex with a circumcised penis is definitely going to cause more tears than sex with an intact one. More friction and more tearing with a circumcised penis. But, hey...who cares about the women, right : ?

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#3 of 65 Old 12-13-2006, 12:04 PM
 
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well, MSNBC stinks. they are still headling that New Zealand study on their men's health section. I've written everyday for a week to every editor with the link of the author's retraction in the AAP Journal. MSNBC refuses to take it down. :
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#4 of 65 Old 12-13-2006, 12:14 PM
 
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ANyone else notice that the article heading says "MOST effective way to stop HIV" and the article itself says "an effective way..."
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#5 of 65 Old 12-13-2006, 12:24 PM
 
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ANyone else notice that the article heading says "MOST effective way to stop HIV" and the article itself says "an effective way..."
US media bias...gott love it. :

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#6 of 65 Old 12-13-2006, 01:52 PM
 
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This makes me so angry!!! :

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#7 of 65 Old 12-13-2006, 03:56 PM
 
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well, MSNBC stinks. they are still headling that New Zealand study on their men's health section. I've written everyday for a week to every editor with the link of the author's retraction in the AAP Journal. MSNBC refuses to take it down. :
I understand that Bill Gates, head of Microsoft (the "MS" in "MSNBC"), is a big proponent of circumcision. No surprise then that he would continue to promote the practice.
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#8 of 65 Old 12-13-2006, 05:20 PM
 
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6176209.stm

Here's the bbc's news report.
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#9 of 65 Old 12-13-2006, 05:38 PM
 
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it's the : top story on the bbc news site
: : :

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#10 of 65 Old 12-13-2006, 05:42 PM
 
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It's making news because of the WHO.

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/.../en/index.html

http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/56966

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#11 of 65 Old 12-13-2006, 05:44 PM
 
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Assuming the studies results are accurate, there still are a lot of things to be taken into account.
If circumcision really does have that much of a preventative effect, than it might make sense to offer it to informed and consenting adult males in countries where HIV has become an epidemic. That way they could choose if the benefit was worth the loss. It would still be wrong to do to infants, since the sex lives of infants aren't what one would call "active", and they can't consent to the procedure.

In countries where HIV is not epidemic, however, the benefit becomes very minor. Reducing a small chance by half is not much of a reduction.

For instance, let's say that in some random country 1% of intact men get HIV in their lifetimes. Reducing that chance by half (as indicated by the studies) means a reduction of 0.5%.
That's not significant enough to justify amputating a healthy part of the genitals.

People hear, "reduces the chance of HIV infection by 50%!" but fail to realize that's a percentage of a percentage. So its significance depends entirely on how common HIV infection is in the first place.

Cutting off one of your feet will reduce your chances of toe cancer by 50%. But toe cancer is so rare that the benefit is laughably small.
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#12 of 65 Old 12-13-2006, 05:46 PM
 
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Unbelievable.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


Unfortunately, all this BS is going to force me to NOT donate any money to the cause, as I am not confident that it won't go to circumcision.

Sad, really....and even sadder 2, 4, 10 years out when the HIV (not to mention other STD) rate has absolutely SKYROCKETED over there.
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#13 of 65 Old 12-13-2006, 05:47 PM
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I understand that Bill Gates, head of Microsoft (the "MS" in "MSNBC"), is a big proponent of circumcision. No surprise then that he would continue to promote the practice.

And ANOTHER reason to go to Linux!

>.> Unfortunately my games dont run on Linux...

Damnit..
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#14 of 65 Old 12-13-2006, 05:51 PM
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Did anyone else notice how they made sure to specify that it was voluntary adult circumcision 3 or 4 times in the article.

And yeah. I'd like to see a study in men with foreskin who wore condoms vs circumcised men who didn't kthx.

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#15 of 65 Old 12-13-2006, 06:04 PM
 
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Isn't this the same old study, different day??? Atleast the article says: "circ'ing ADULT men is an effective way..."
they didn't even mention circ'ing babies or children. Although that is what will follow of course. Also noticed that theysaid that i't limits transmission' of hetrosexuals only, I guess all homosexuals are out of luck??

I guess Africa can't control Aids with common sense and condoms. If they have to resort to a special form of violence against children in order to prevent disease, that is quite a shame.

:
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#16 of 65 Old 12-13-2006, 06:08 PM
 
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Atleast the article says "circ'ing ADULT men is an effective way..." at least they didn't circing banies or children. Although that is what will follow of course. Also noticed they only say that it limits transmission of hetrosexuals only, I guess all homosexuals are out of luck??

I noticed that to, but you *know* that "they" will jump all over it as a reason to circ babies because of all the old favorites..."preventative", "he won't remember", "easier as a baby"....

Also, the transmission of HIV from woman to man is miniscule ANYWAY, so yeah, women and homosexuals need not worry. :
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#17 of 65 Old 12-13-2006, 10:29 PM
 
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despite this study I still won't be circ'ing my child, if he wants it done he can do so as an adult where he signs his own consent form and probably will have general anesthesia.
I wonder if this study will have any impact on countries where circumcision isn't culturally aproved of - like Europe.
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#18 of 65 Old 12-14-2006, 12:35 AM
 
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Washington Post article that shocked/pissed me off so much I came here to see where this thread was

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...121301155.html
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#19 of 65 Old 12-14-2006, 12:41 AM
 
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The other thing I'm wondering is whether men will think being circ'd will allow them no-holds-barred sex with anyone, kwim? And actually increase AIDS transmission as a result. :
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#20 of 65 Old 12-14-2006, 12:53 AM
 
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Did anyone else notice how they made sure to specify that it was voluntary adult circumcision 3 or 4 times in the article.

And yeah. I'd like to see a study in men with foreskin who wore condoms vs circumcised men who didn't kthx.
I was thinking the same thing!!!

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#21 of 65 Old 12-14-2006, 01:32 AM
 
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The other thing I'm wondering is whether men will think being circ'd will allow them no-holds-barred sex with anyone, kwim? And actually increase AIDS transmission as a result. :
I don't doubt for a second that that is exactly what will happen.
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#22 of 65 Old 12-14-2006, 02:15 AM
 
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http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2006/...ision-hiv.html

Canada's government-funded broadcasting system, CBC, has jumped on the bandwagon, too. Doesn't help that they have a snippet of Stephen Lewis (big name in African HIV/AIDS circles):

"There was already enough evidence that circumcision is protective, and programs should be ready to go, said Stephen Lewis, the UN's outgoing special envoy for AIDS in Africa.

"The international community, and that includes the UN community, needs to learn to move more quickly, because lives are at stake," Lewis told CBC News."

: :

They just ran the report about an hour ago on the evening news. I got so steamed, watching it.

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#23 of 65 Old 12-14-2006, 02:17 AM
 
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Canada's right there too.
http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2006/...ision-hiv.html

Oops, missed that last post.

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#24 of 65 Old 12-14-2006, 02:24 AM
 
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I'm totally po'd with this too. As a Canadian, it makes me mad. People will always rely too much on the medical community's "cures" for disease. Notice how only male circ is offered? It's an incredibly one-sided galling thing to claim. I fear this might stop the progress of the anti-circ movement but I know I will never, ever believe in these stupid studies that are completely inapplicable over here. I'll make sure no one I know will do this to their sons, cause I won't. I just won't let it happen in the face of this ludicrous study. Good lord, I hate circumcision. I could only imagine my anger would be very damaging for myself if I had actually had it done to me when I was born!
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#25 of 65 Old 12-14-2006, 02:43 AM
 
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For the CBC story, feedback can be sent here: http://www.cbc.ca/news/feedback/inde...studies%20show

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#26 of 65 Old 12-14-2006, 03:08 AM
 
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Oh and now I saw the story too. This after 3 months ago describing the harrowing story of Paul Tinari. Talk about mixed messages. In the same report, it calls the practice medically unecessary but also has some stupid doc recommending it to be done to prevent HIV. And then a father who didn't circ his 1st son saying they'll look into it more for the 2nd. That's just sickening stuff, to me. Yeah, circumcision will help stop AIDS, like it helped stop STDs, madness, blindness and a billion other ailments. This kind of scare tactic won't work in places like Europe where the disease is not as widespread, but here? Who knows.

But I'm also confident the determined intactivists out there will make sure the flip side opposing view becomes known to the public. They'll show stories about how flawed the AIDS study is; how it was twisted to be a success and not just another failed prevention method. Oh, and the fact that the ends do not justify the means (yeah, torturing a newborn baby boy cause he has a less than 1% chance of MAYBE contracting HIV and it MAYBE be because he has a foreskin).

Funny how stories on circ's negative effects always get little attention and stay localized while these stories on circ's "positive" effects get carried by all the major news organizations. Seems like a subconcious thing where men who were cut are trying to justify their status and comfort themselves with the knowledge that somehow circ is a beneficial surgery. The blindness of society is sometimes disturbing.

What's so sad is the money being thrown down the drain by AIDS fighters like Stephen Lewis and Bill Gates. If there was any justice in the world, the two would be locked inside all day and forced to digest the facts... and then watch the awful circ videos. Then they'll feel real proud about encouraging this cosmetic surgery as some kind of saviour in the battle against AIDS. If the UN is on board for this, they are even bigger hypocrites than I thought. On one hand promoting circ cause it may help curb AIDS in Africa, and yet denouncing female circ.

Look, I'm all for stopping that barbaric practice too, but until they can get their heads straight about male circ, it's a secondary issue in my view. But unfortunately, this is a world where the rights of baby boys are disregarded and ignored in the face of phony medical science and $$$$. It's a modern day human rights violation in our supposedly "advanced" Western world that feels we can force our ways on others and preach about our learned ways while at the same time acting like total morons towards little boys back home.
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#27 of 65 Old 12-14-2006, 04:10 AM
 
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My 3 year old isn't having sex anytime soon. And when he does, HE can decide for HIMSELF if he'd rather protect himself with a condom or a painful surgery.

I totally agree that men are going to take this the wrong way and think they can have unprotected sex with everyone (and sadly women will think they can't get HIV/AIDS because they are having sex with a circ'd man). It's going to do the opposite of what they want to happen.
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#28 of 65 Old 12-14-2006, 05:54 AM
 
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My 3 year old isn't having sex anytime soon. And when he does, HE can decide for HIMSELF if he'd rather protect himself with a condom or a painful surgery.

I totally agree that men are going to take this the wrong way and think they can have unprotected sex with everyone (and sadly women will think they can't get HIV/AIDS because they are having sex with a circ'd man). It's going to do the opposite of what they want to happen.
Well you're right on the money. But they don't realize that through promoting adult circ, you get RIC as a result. How stupid is it to perform this surgery in the attempt to prevent a disease your child likely won't get as long as they practice safe methods. And though they stressed it was not a magic bullet and that men should still practice safe sex, you will still see men thinking "oh, well I didn't use protection but it's ok because at least i'm circumcised."

I don't know why the U.S. has the highest developed world rate of AIDS, but maybe it's this attitude of "i'm protected because i was cut" or the high frequency of more strange sex acts (not just anal) to compensate for a loss of sexual pleasure. Either way, ain't it funny how these news reports forget the U.S. has the world's 4th highest incidence of AIDS and meanwhile places like Scandinavia where no one circs, has one of the lowest in the entire world.

It's not about if you have a foreskin or not, it's about how well you protect yourself and how knowledgeable you are when going into relations with a new partner/stranger. Countries with a prominent sex trade, unlike Scandinavian Europe, will always run into these problems but instead of targetting the sex workers who are at risk for infecting the public, the genius lame-brain medical morons think slicing off an infant's foreskin is a lot more logical. What a joke.
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#29 of 65 Old 12-14-2006, 07:08 AM
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you will still see men thinking "oh, well I didn't use protection but it's ok because at least i'm circumcised."
And moms too. I was reading something today, and a mom said "I'm going to do it so that if my son makes a mistake in 18-20 years he won't have to pay for the rest of his life".

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#30 of 65 Old 12-14-2006, 09:31 AM
 
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“Private practitioners also do it,” Dr. Halperin said. “In some places, it’s $20; in others, much more. Lots of the wealthy elite have already done it. It prevents S.T.D.’s, it’s seen as cleaner, sex is better, women like it. I predict that a lot of men who can’t afford private clinics will start clamoring for it.” (S.T.D.’s are sexually transmitted diseases.)
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/14/he...rtner=homepage

Not only that, but since last night, they've added a paragraph on how circ prevents HPV transmission and therefore cervical cancer.:

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