Paul Tinari's view on African situation - Mothering Forums

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Old 12-19-2006, 02:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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You may recall Paul Tinari, Ph D., who is the first Canadian man to get provincial medical funding to have a foreskin restoration surgery. Here's something he wrote about the current publicity campaign. Baybee

The Politics and Motivation behind the African “Research” on Male
Circumcision and HIV Infection


By: Dr. Paul Tinari Ph.D.,

Research Epidemiologist

For more than fifty years, the circumcision industry in North America
has reaped windfall profits by use of a clever combination of
disinformation, lies and fear. By carefully targeted lobbying,
selective funding of political campaigns and by playing the
“religious freedom” card, the industry assured that laws were passed
banning all forms of genital mutilation in females (even with
consent), but shamefully and in blatant violation of both Charter and
Constitutional guarantees of gender equality, permitted the genital
mutilation of males (without consent).

In the last ten years, the pharmaceutical industry has discovered a
universe of profitable products that can be manufactured from stolen
foreskins. Even though the trade in human organs and tissues,
especially those taken without consent, is universally banned as an
affront to human dignity (starting with the Nuremberg Laws passed in
the 1940’s), the circumcision industry has once again exempted itself
from any restrictions that would hinder the profit of its
operations. As a result, each pilfered foreskin can be worth tens of
thousands in commercial products – not bad for a product that they
get paid to steal, despite the protestations of its rightful owner.

Gandhi <>once said that the truth can never be suppressed for ever,
and the carefully crafted façade constructed by the circumcision
industry has begun to crumble in the face of successful assault by
scientific and ethical facts. Parents are now, in a powerfully
rising tide, rejecting the lies and deceit of the baby mutilators,
and increasing embracing the axiom that if males were meant to have a
foreskin, then they would be born with one. And as such, it makes
sense to believe that his creator gave a foreskin to its male owner
because the intent was for him to keep it.
As parents are now increasingly responding to scientific fact and
reason instead of to hysterical claims and superstition, circumcision
rates have plummeted to single digit percentages in many
jurisdictions. This is most worrying to the circumcision industry,
because their profits have begun to suffer. Seeing no hope of
increasing supplies from North America or Europe, the industry has
now targeted Africa as a brand new “virgin” source of foreskins to be
harvested for luxury pharmaceutical products for well heeled
consumers in the developed world. Let there be no mistake: The
circumcision industry does not give a damn about the health of
African children – they are only seen as a new - and more gullible -
resource to exploit.

If the industry truly cared about the health of Africans, then it
would be funding proper epidemiological studies, not the severely
flawed, politically motivated “research” that has just been
selectively made public. Why the obsession with ONLY studying male
circumcision and HIV infection? Why has no work been done or even
proposed on studying the link between female circumcision and HIV
infection? After all, the female labia has exactly the same cellular
receptors as the male foreskin. If it were discovered that
circumcised females have a lower risk of HIV infection than intact
ones, then would the researchers then be demanding large scale
circumcision of females in North America? And if not, why not? Why
has no study been conducted on the link between “dry” intercourse and
HIV infection? Dry intercourse, popular with many African men,
consists of drying out the vagina before intercourse by using harsh
astringents. The dry, irritated and cracked vaginal tissues are far
more prone to tearing, bleeding and hence, to HIV infection. Why
have no studies been made on the link between malaria infection and
HIV susceptibility? Hundreds of millions of Africans are infected by
the malaria parasite. Certainly it is of interest if this increases
a person’s risk of HIV infection. And what about the known links
between the prevalence of other STDs and HIV infection? Antibiotic
resistant gonorrhoea and syphilis are epidemic throughout Africa, and
it is well known that their presence greatly facilitates HIV
transmission to an infected individual. For that matter, any
systemic infection that compromises the immune system including
tuberculosis, sleeping sickness and many parasitical worms (all of
which are endemic throughout Africa), will all greatly facilitate HIV
infection. It is scientifically criminal that none of these factors
was controlled for in the recently published “research.” Yet each
of these factors is potentially a far greater contributor to ease of
HIV infection in males than the presence or absence of a foreskin.
To be blunt – these research results are scientific garbage and
should be treated as such.

In conclusion, the sad truth is that these were not professional,
objective scientific researchers who were conducting an unbiased
study whose goal was the improvement of human welfare. Rather, these
are little more than amateur hacks, with at best a poor understanding
of elementary epidemiological or statistical principles who were
willing to do anything to prove their pre-supposed dogma – that male
circumcision prevents HIV infection. Why is the inconvenient fact
ignored that the lowest rates of HIV infection in the world are found
in the Scandinavian nations, countries where circumcision is
virtually unknown? Why is it ignored that the Western nation with
the highest circumcision rates, the United States, also has the
highest rates of HIV infection?

The truth can be obtained by asking the innocent question: “Who
sponsored this highly flawed research and for what political
purpose?” The true intent of the study organizers can be deduced by
their boastful claim that the results of this research would have all
African men “lining up” to get circumcised. As usual, the African
get conned while the Western multinational corporations laugh all the
way to the bank.

A little digging will reveal that this research was paid for the same
sponsors who soon hope to richly profit from harvesting a huge new
supply of African foreskins. After all, the same poverty stricken
Africans were easily conned by Western multinationals into buying
expensive formula (diluted with contaminated water) for their
children, instead of using free, healthy and sterile breast milk.

Paul Tinari
Pacific Institute for Advanced Study
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Old 12-19-2006, 02:37 PM
 
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Old 12-19-2006, 02:40 PM
 
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Quote:
A little digging will reveal that this research was paid for the same
sponsors who soon hope to richly profit from harvesting a huge new
supply of African foreskins.
Is this his surmising, or does he have actual proof of this yet??
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Old 12-19-2006, 04:19 PM
 
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Question: Where was this posted, and do we have permission to share it far and wide? Interesting piece!

Jen
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Old 12-19-2006, 04:58 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I clipped it off one of the lists, it was posted by Patricia Robinette. Right now, I don't have a link but will post if one comes through.
Baybee
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Old 12-19-2006, 05:12 PM
 
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Paul's view is what I am screaming!!!! Especially to my sweet baby boy's dumbass pediatrician, who is FIRED!!

Thanks for the post Baybee.

SAHM to Ivan 6/10/05 who says  signcirc1.gifand Matilda 1/31/08 who says saynovax.gif:::

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Old 12-22-2006, 07:57 PM
 
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Lovin' it, and lovin' the applicability of this quote:

"Gandhi once said that the truth can never be suppressed forever"

Katie (36)
 
Married mom to Patrick (2004), Noah (2006) and Liam (2010) VBAC!!
winner.jpg                                        nocirc.gif                                  jumpers.gif
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Old 12-23-2006, 05:32 AM
 
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If you find the link for the original sharing of the info I would love to have it. This stupid African study touting the wonderous productive benefits of circ : is popping up on message boards I am on and it is pissing me off. I wish people would just use common sense - even *if* circ prevented some cases of AIDS, there are much better ways to prevent AIDS and it wouldn't apply to baby boys anyway so leave their penis' alone!

There is a lot of great info in the post above though so I'd love to share it. The prob is that the one board I am on there are some argumentative people who can't look past mainstream info that supports what they chose to do to their sons unless there is some big wig MD behind the info (and even then it is hard to get them to listen to anything grrr).
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Old 12-24-2006, 12:54 AM - Thread Starter
 
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So, I just googled "Paul Tinari, Africa" and got a bunch of different referenes.
Apparently it was published in our local paper and I didn't even see it. Baybee
http://www.cirp.org/news/vancouversun2006-08-22/
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Old 12-24-2006, 01:32 AM
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AMEN. AMEN. AMEN.


And I have the same question as a previous poster..............does he know for sure who funded these "studies"?

"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
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Old 12-25-2006, 04:05 PM
 
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Slightly OT.

Dumb question, forgive my ignorance in advance.

Do people REALLY make money off of using and selling foreskins?

(If yes, then please place and vomiting characters in.)
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Old 12-25-2006, 05:04 PM
 
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Yes, people really do make money off harvesting and selling foreskins in this country, at least, to biotech companies. They use the foreskins to develop products such as replacement skin for burn victims, alternative testing for cosmetic/chemical products (instead of animal testing), and other uses. (None of which I think validates the theft of non-diseased body parts from unconsenting minors).

I very much doubt, however, that the push for African circumcision campaigns has much to do with sourcing foreskins for biotech companies. For one, I don't think adult foreskins have the same types of useful cells for the biotech companies. For another, I think the issues of cutting off, preserving and transporting infant foreskins back to the US or other countries in a fresh enough and sterile enough state to be useful would be problematic. And for a third, the rates aren't dropping so fast in this country that anyone's going to run out of foreskins any time soon. Given that roughly a million baby boys are still cut every year, I think capacity probably still outstrips demand by a large amount.

Although many of his statements are true, Dr. Tinari provides no sources and names no names to back up his assertions that the research was funded by biotech companies with plans to export African foreskins as raw materials. So I would classify his piece as conspiracy theory, not fact, until proven otherwise.

I think the push behind circumcision for HIV prevention in Africa has far more to do with the psychological issues of circumcised men who are desperate to find a justification for circumcision. Look at how desperately men have searched for medical justifications for circumcision for generations now, without any profit motive (beyond the promotion of circ itself).

I also don't doubt that donor nations would rather fund relatively cheap one-off mass circ campaigns than do the long-term, expensive work of providing condoms and sex ed, improving the health-care systems and the status of women and children, and all the myriad other systemic issues that need to be addressed if the HIV/AIDS crisis is to be solved.

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Old 12-25-2006, 05:31 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quirky View Post
I also don't doubt that donor nations would rather fund relatively cheap one-off mass circ campaigns than do the long-term, expensive work of providing condoms and sex ed, improving the health-care systems and the status of women and children, and all the myriad other systemic issues that need to be addressed if the HIV/AIDS crisis is to be solved.
AMEN.

Jen
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Old 12-25-2006, 05:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by SaraFR View Post
Slightly OT.

Dumb question, forgive my ignorance in advance.

Do people REALLY make money off of using and selling foreskins?

(If yes, then please place and vomiting characters in.)
Yes, they also make super-duper expensive face moisturizer for the rich and famous out of baby boy foreskins!: : Oprah likes it.

Here ya go!

Oh, why oh why do I have to go reading more about this????

from the article:

Call me crazy, but I am willing to shell out 125 bucks for a tiny tube of the latest “miracle cream” made from — you made need to sit down for this — baby foreskins.
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Old 12-25-2006, 11:38 PM
 
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Yes, they also make super-duper expensive face moisturizer for the rich and famous out of baby boy foreskins!: : Oprah likes it.

Here ya go!

Oh, why oh why do I have to go reading more about this????

from the article:

Call me crazy, but I am willing to shell out 125 bucks for a tiny tube of the latest “miracle cream” made from — you made need to sit down for this — baby foreskins.
Was that second link serious???
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Old 12-25-2006, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Quirky View Post

I very much doubt, however, that the push for African circumcision campaigns has much to do with sourcing foreskins for biotech companies.

Well, follow the trail.

First, circ will be recommended for adult men in Africa.

Then, circ will be recommended for adult men in US. (those who somehow managed to escape it earlier.)

Then, circ will be recommended (even more heavily) for infants in America. Viola! More foreskins for the biotech companies. If they can get the CDC, NIH, or AAP to jump on the bandwagon because of these "studies," they've struck gold.

"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
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Old 12-25-2006, 11:50 PM
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Was that second link serious???
oh yes, Oprah featured this same "miracle cream" on her show and talked about how it's made of foreskins. :

"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
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Old 12-25-2006, 11:53 PM
 
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oh yes, Oprah featured this same "miracle cream" on her show and talked about how it's made of foreskins. :
I so wished it wasn't serious. I found it hard to imagine that it was serious. Then again, it would have been a really sick joke. I can't get over how "cool" she was about foreskins being used in makeup.
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Old 12-26-2006, 02:40 PM
 
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Well, follow the trail.

First, circ will be recommended for adult men in Africa.

Then, circ will be recommended for adult men in US. (those who somehow managed to escape it earlier.)

Then, circ will be recommended (even more heavily) for infants in America. Viola! More foreskins for the biotech companies. If they can get the CDC, NIH, or AAP to jump on the bandwagon because of these "studies," they've struck gold.

:
absolutely. what's going on in Africa has its end goal in maintaining and raising circ rates for infants in the US. they couldn't find good enough justification in this country to keep circ rates from falling - so they went looking elsewhere, in an impoverished, malnourished population with epidemic rates of HIV.

and Paul Tinari is right on about the absence of controls in the African study. controls for those already infected with an STD - or malaria, lifestyle, etc. Where are the peer reviews??
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Old 12-26-2006, 02:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by A&A View Post
Well, follow the trail.

First, circ will be recommended for adult men in Africa.

Then, circ will be recommended for adult men in US. (those who somehow managed to escape it earlier.)

Then, circ will be recommended (even more heavily) for infants in America. Viola! More foreskins for the biotech companies. If they can get the CDC, NIH, or AAP to jump on the bandwagon because of these "studies," they've struck gold.
That is a plausible argument, but that is not Tinari's argument:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Tinari
Seeing no hope of
increasing supplies from North America or Europe, the industry has
now targeted Africa as a brand new “virgin” source of foreskins to be
harvested for luxury pharmaceutical products for well heeled
consumers in the developed world. Let there be no mistake: The
circumcision industry does not give a damn about the health of
African children – they are only seen as a new - and more gullible -
resource to exploit.
In fact, your argument and his are diametrically opposed, because your argument sees the African study as a way to get North American circ rates to increase, while he (inaccurately in my opinion) says that North American parents are too smart to circ their babies any more and so the biotech industry has no choice but to go to Africa for foreskins.

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Old 12-26-2006, 04:30 PM
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In fact, your argument and his are diametrically opposed, because your argument sees the African study as a way to get North American circ rates to increase, while he (inaccurately in my opinion) says that North American parents are too smart to circ their babies any more and so the biotech industry has no choice but to go to Africa for foreskins.

Well, I understand how our arguments are different, but I don't necessarily see them as diametrically opposed.

Right now, a lot of US parents are too smart to get their boys circ'd. In fact, we're almost at a tipping point, and I think that really scares the powers that be. But if the CDC were to back circ as a "prevention" for HIV, then a lot of otherwise "smart" parents will circ their sons.

"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
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Old 12-26-2006, 06:10 PM - Thread Starter
 
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<<Where are the peer reviews?>>

The peer reviews are that the "study" material has been rejected for ethical concerns. Auvert submitted his data, it was looked at by journals, and it was never published. This means it is junk , not a study. I would be so happy if people would stop referring to the African studies, there are none. There is junk
that no credible scientific journal has ever pub'd that is being spun by cheap magazines and unsuspecting newspapers. End of reality check.
Baybee
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Old 12-27-2006, 11:31 AM
 
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Was that second link serious???
Yes.
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Old 12-27-2006, 01:56 PM
 
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Yes.
That's even more disturbing.
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Old 12-27-2006, 03:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by A&A View Post
Well, I understand how our arguments are different, but I don't necessarily see them as diametrically opposed.

Right now, a lot of US parents are too smart to get their boys circ'd. In fact, we're almost at a tipping point, and I think that really scares the powers that be. But if the CDC were to back circ as a "prevention" for HIV, then a lot of otherwise "smart" parents will circ their sons.
I agree 100%. that may not be exactly what Tinari is saying, but I believe this absolutely plays a factor here. Along with the "cost effectiveness" of mass adult circ vs. education & condoms.
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Old 12-30-2006, 12:48 PM
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bump

"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
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