This kind of stunned me - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 16 Old 05-15-2003, 08:55 AM - Thread Starter
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In my high school English class (that I teach), we were discussing body "modification" vs. mutilation, such as the (disgusting) new "trend" of tongue splitting. We were also discussing a guy who had plastic surgery and tattoos to make his face look more like the face of a tiger. We were discussing whether or not people should have the right to do these things to their body.


Anyway, I briefly mentioned circ as another form of body "modification," which could be considered mutilation. (And I mentioned that the people involved don't even get a choice because it happens to them as infants.) I didn't go into this topic too deeply because:
1) I didn't want to offend any circ'd students
2) I get way too emotional talking about my son when discussing this topic


And....to my point........as the bell rang, I heard one male student say to another, "I would commit suicide if I hadn't been circ'd." The other student agreed!!

Oh........this broke my heart. I didn't know what to say to them, and they didn't even know I had overheard their conversation.

Is this the type of ignorance my son will have to deal with in the future????


I WON'T (didn't) mutilate and hurt my son merely for the sake of tradition, but it does bother me that Utah is such a high circ state and there is so much ignorance!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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#2 of 16 Old 05-15-2003, 09:32 AM
 
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Could you bring up the issue of informed consent and bodily integrity and see what comes up from there? Maybe bring up tattooing and how it's acceptable to put something on your own body (as many of us have) but not somebody else's without consent (like in concentration camps). Or, have you talked at FGM and then kind of brought up "why is not ok to do this to girls but it is to boys? The reasons that both camps give is the same".
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#3 of 16 Old 05-15-2003, 11:07 AM
 
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What it shows is that we still have a long way to go in educating people. What it is most indicative of is self preservation. In the male ego driven penis centric world of the male teen it is hard to imagine, accept or deal with the possibility that what you have is not best. To admit so would be a hit on that ego.

The word is getting out though and things are changing. We will follow the lead of our northern neighbors who have gotten their circ rate down to 17% and Canadians report that it is hard to find a doctor who will do a circumcision.

Also, I don't remember if I've mentioned it here but Ron Goldman has been added to the AAP's Taskforce on Circumcision. Ron is very active in our cause and has written books and lectures. He is the first intactivist to be on the panel and I have to wonder what hidden meaning this has. Is the AAP about to come out with a much stronger statement? Who knows?





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#4 of 16 Old 05-15-2003, 02:18 PM
 
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Hi. I'm new to this board. I am familiar with Frank and Sarah from another board.

Anyway, YEA!!!!

Ron Goldman appointed to the AAP Circ Taskforce! This is great news! I am going to pray my butt off(and believe me at 7 mo pregnant I have alot of butt to pray off) that he will be able to bring an amazing amount of insight to this mission.

This is the best news I've heard all day.

Angie

Carter Benjamin 11/03/95 circ'd and regret it
Logan Jacob 10/28/00 intact
Aidan Walker 8/10/03 intact as he is now
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#5 of 16 Old 05-15-2003, 02:28 PM
 
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I am going to pray my butt off(and believe me at 7 mo pregnant I have alot of butt to pray off)
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#6 of 16 Old 05-15-2003, 03:36 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Frankly Speaking
Also, I don't remember if I've mentioned it here but Ron Goldman has been added to the AAP's Taskforce on Circumcision.
Frank
Frank, how do you find this stuff out? I looked on the AAP web site but didn't see anything. Did you find out through Ron?
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#7 of 16 Old 05-15-2003, 03:36 PM
 
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Great to see you here Angie. You're gonna love this board!



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#8 of 16 Old 05-15-2003, 05:39 PM
 
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"(and believe me at 7 mo pregnant I have alot of butt to pray off)"

OMG- too funny!

I have been wondering when the new statement will come out- it's been about 5 years since the last one, hasn't it? How often do they issue statements on circ?

That's incredible to hear Ron Goldman is on the task force (even though I always think of the man OJ (allegedly) killed beofre I think of OUR Ron Goldman.) Yeah!!!!

Jackie
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#9 of 16 Old 05-16-2003, 12:34 AM - Thread Starter
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It just shows me the absolute insanity of circ!!

I know the "locker room issue" is supposed to be a myth, but sometimes it still worries me.

Thank goodness I have a dh who's secure enough in his manhood (even though he was circ'd) to keep our son intact and to help him through any issues like this that he may face in the future.
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#10 of 16 Old 05-16-2003, 01:32 AM
 
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The two boys you overheard. Sounds too me like they are suffering from deep insecurity and are fishing around for others to cling to.

a

PS nice to you you still kicking around here Frank.

a

The anti-Ezzo king
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#11 of 16 Old 05-16-2003, 09:41 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by mamajulie
[B]In my high school English class (that I teach), we were discussing body "modification" vs. mutilation, such as the (disgusting) new "trend" of tongue splitting. We were also discussing a guy who had plastic surgery and tattoos to make his face look more like the face of a tiger. We were discussing whether or not people should have the right to do these things to their body.
Yes. Because the Things are not the issue (a tiger versus a zebra) but ownership of your body. Do you want someone telling you not to do something to your body? - you might say well I'm not looking like a tiger but you are getting a nose ring, or even earrings. Imagine that's accepted today but tomorrow someone decides that you will not do it. This is the problem we run into with prohibition of drugs. The PDFA assumes they know a total stranger better than that person knows himself. Altering The Mind With Substances is not an acceptable activity. Bungee jumping is.
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And....to my point........as the bell rang, I heard one male student say to another, "I would commit suicide if I hadn't been circ'd."
Instead of just having himself circumcised!!!!

At least Utah Medicaid has stopped paying for it.
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#12 of 16 Old 05-16-2003, 12:16 PM
 
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Frank, I think in about five minutes the alarm is going to go off and wake me up. I was just dreaming that you posted on the Mothering board that Ron Goldman was appointed to the AAP task force on circumcision.

Love Sarah
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#13 of 16 Old 05-17-2003, 09:53 AM
 
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It blew me away too, Sara. Somebody had written to the taskforce and actually got a reply from Ron and checked it out and found his name listed.

Now, it is possible, I suppose, that it is a different Ron Goldman but the city was right and the subject is right and the message was right for it to be our Ron Goldman so the odds are extremely small that it is a different Ron Goldman.

I think you are wide awake, Sara. Pinch yourself!




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#14 of 16 Old 05-17-2003, 08:18 PM
 
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Mamajulie I am the mother of four intact sons and also live in Utah . My two oldest boys are 17 and 16, so I am around teenage boys ALOT as they hang out at my house and I hear them in unguarded moments. They are prone to making statements that sound shocking on the surface, but have a completely different underlying meaning than we would interpret them. Remember that males have a lot of their ego tied up in their genitals, so they have a hard time if something makes them feel a little inadequate in that area. Chances are this boy just wanted to reinforce in his own mind that his penis is great the way it is.

BTW, I have asked my boys what they think about the "locker room" argument for circumcising, and they scoff at that. Their opinion is that it would be disgusting for a boy to comment on another boys privates - the one spouting an opinion would get a not-so-flattering label! Basically, it is NOT considered OK to be checking out another guy's penis (at least not so anyone else knows about it, LOL)

My husband also is circ'd and after doing some research before our first son was born he was happy to leave our boys as God created them, and is now very anti-circ.

Keep looking for subtle opportunities to get the intact message out, you could make a difference for the children of your students!
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#15 of 16 Old 05-18-2003, 08:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you! What part of UT are you in? I live in Ogden.
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#16 of 16 Old 05-18-2003, 10:18 AM
 
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I live in Cache Valley, so not far from you.
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