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Bacterial Meningitis from Circ

2K views 36 replies 19 participants last post by  jessjgh1 
#1 ·
Hey all, I don't know if any of you remember me typing a few months back that my nephew had bacterial meningitis and we were thinking he was exposed when he was circ'ed.
Well, he spent a month in the hospital and we are still crossing fingers it didn't do any permanent brain damage, but there are a few spots on his brain that look affected. It is going to be years and years before anyone knows the extent of the damage, if any.

Anyway, my SIL and BIL are suing the hospital. Experts think it may have been from the circ. Do you think they have a case, or did they sign over their rights when they signed the waiver to allow him to be circ'ed.

Poor little kid.
: I swear my SIL is the biggest
: alive, third boy, and she knows the facts that it's NOT necessary, has even watched a few procedures in real life.
:

They think either the needle was dirty or the knife. Another reason to NOT circ.
 
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#2 ·
I hope your nephew recovers fully
: I hope there is no need for extra monies to help him later in life for medical reasons. I also feel his parents DO NOT deserve a settlement. They knew the risks and still had this HORRIBLE and BARBARIC procedure done to their sweet little child. They need to accept guilt. I feel that they do not have a case, especially if they signed the release papers for the procedure.

Circumcision can and does maim and harm
:
 
#4 ·
I'm vehemently anti-circ, but if your nephew was a newborn when he was circed, it's much more likely that his newborn-in-a-hospital status was at the root of his picking up meningitis than his circ. Just medically speaking. Now, if he was older & readmitted for the circ, I'd lean more toward your direction. But I think we're probably dealing with separate issues here. JMHO.
 
#5 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Elowyn View Post
I'm vehemently anti-circ, but if your nephew was a newborn when he was circed, it's much more likely that his newborn-in-a-hospital status was at the root of his picking up meningitis than his circ. Just medically speaking. Now, if he was older & readmitted for the circ, I'd lean more toward your direction. But I think we're probably dealing with separate issues here. JMHO.
They were able to confirm that the bacteria went right into his blood stream when he was infected, and he bled a lot during the circ. I feel in every part of my gut it happened when he was circ'ed.

His parents will be suing for pain and suffering.
He will also have a trust fund because he will always have a pre-exisiting condition that will affect his insurances, etc. even if his prognosis is perfect, there will still be lifetime consequences.
 
#6 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivan's Mom View Post
I hope your nephew recovers fully
: I hope there is no need for extra monies to help him later in life for medical reasons. I also feel his parents DO NOT deserve a settlement. They knew the risks and still had this HORRIBLE and BARBARIC procedure done to their sweet little child. They need to accept guilt. I feel that they do not have a case, especially if they signed the release papers for the procedure.

Circumcision can and does maim and harm
:
I disagree, not seeking a settlement if the child needs further assistance and care is punishing the child, not the parents. The child's needs, regardless of what has transpired, are what is most important here. If he needs further treatment and has defecits because of this, and a settlement will help provide that, then the parents should get it. Punishing the child further for the actions of the parents is counter productive.
 
#7 ·
There will be an amount of money, probably in the millions, for my nephew, that will be placed in a trust fund for him. They will compute what his expected IQ would be, and examine the damage to say what the worse case scenario for him would be, and compensate him for that. Also, he will never have normal insurance since he has a pre-exisiting condition, so he will be compensated, on and on.....my in laws will not be able to touch this money unless it is directly going to my nephew, ie, therapy, vehicle to get back and forth, tutors, etc.

As far as the parents, under the MI law, they can sue (separate from the money that goes to the infant) for up to $700,000 for pain and suffering, and that $ would go directly to them. They do plan on suing for pain and suffering, and I have some mixed feelings on it.
 
#8 ·
I've also heard a few people on here say they highly doubt circ'ing would expose a child to a bacteria that could cause bacterial meningitis, and I don't understand why you feel that way. Why wouldn't creating an open wound be apt to introduce infection? It seems absolutely probable to me.
 
#10 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivan's Mom View Post
I hope your nephew recovers fully
: I hope there is no need for extra monies to help him later in life for medical reasons. I also feel his parents DO NOT deserve a settlement. They knew the risks and still had this HORRIBLE and BARBARIC procedure done to their sweet little child. They need to accept guilt. I feel that they do not have a case, especially if they signed the release papers for the procedure.

Circumcision can and does maim and harm
:
:
I think that parents who know the facts and still mutilate their baby do NOT deserve to have kids! Period!
yulia.
 
#11 ·
I have no idea if it's a valid case or not and I don't really have an opinion on whether or not it's "deserved" but I would think that there is no case. It sounds like they can't prove how he got the meningitis for sure and as long as everything was done "normally" it would fall under the normal risks associated w/ circ (which they signed a form for). Now, if the doctor or hospital was somehow negligent that would be different.
 
#12 ·
Please let's be nice here. The OP's nephew is potentially brain-damaged, and it doesn't help her to be told that the nephew shouldn't even be in the family. She's asking about legalities. Let's stick to that.
 
#13 ·
Why would an open wound not be the cause of a bacterial infection. To me it seems like common sense that bacteria could easily enter into a wound site especially at the hospital.
Anyway, I hope your nephew does get the settlement. Poor poor little baby.

Did his parents know an severe infection can be a complication of circ. Were they truly fully inforrmed? If not I don't see why they shouldn't also get a settlement. Plus I think it makes a pretty strong statement to the Doctors who preform circs on babies.

Would they circ again?
 
#14 ·
So sorry for your nephew. I hope that makes this hospital think twice about offering RIC.

Too bad the parents didn't listen to you or research this before they let them do this to their son. Last I checked infection was listed as a complication on consent forms. I have known a couple of people whose sons were circ'd and had serious infections, even when it was likely...most though denied that it had anything to do with circ (of course).
 
#15 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Finch View Post
I disagree, not seeking a settlement if the child needs further assistance and care is punishing the child, not the parents. The child's needs, regardless of what has transpired, are what is most important here. If he needs further treatment and has defecits because of this, and a settlement will help provide that, then the parents should get it. Punishing the child further for the actions of the parents is counter productive.
I showed concern for the child in my post. I was not interested in the child being "punished." That was not a fair response to my post.

I DO think the parents should be punished for their STUPID decision. I am all for the child having buckets of money for his destroyed life, not his parents.
 
#16 ·
Oh I absolutely agree with you guys over the parents being stunned. I have begged, pleaded, and cried to my SIL over circ'ing, and this is boy #3. Her response was that she's seen it done before. She really won't even argue it with me, instead, she agrees with me, and nods her head, but she still circs. So it's very frustrating.

I don't know if she should be entitled to personal money for "pain and suffering." I know it would improve the quality of their whole families life, at such a huge expense, yes, but if they are entitled to it by law, I suppose.
I just love my nephews, and I want to see them do well and be well.

On a positive note, I don't believe my newborn nephew will be overtly damaged in any way. He might have a learning disability, but I just spent some time with him, and at 2 months he is doing excellent and his eyes look intelligent already. I believe he will be of normal intelligence.

That doesn't change his law suit though. As far as I know, he wil be entitled to lots of money because of this experience. I do believe he deserves it.

As far as his stunned parents, I don't know what they deserve. Someone to cut off their genitals, perhaps.
 
#17 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivan's Mom View Post
I showed concern for the child in my post. I was not interested in the child being "punished." That was not a fair response to my post.

I DO think the parents should be punished for their STUPID decision. I am all for the child having buckets of money for his destroyed life, not his parents.
I agree with you, except I don't believe for a second his life will be destroyed...I think he will be just fine and who knows, might use some of that money to restore himself when he's older.

I know you didn't mean anything whatsoever against the baby...but rather the parents that have watched it being done, know it has no medical benefit, but still continue to allow it done to their children.
 
#18 ·
Quote:
Why would an open wound not be the cause of a bacterial infection. To me it seems like common sense that bacteria could easily enter into a wound site especially at the hospital.
I don't know, but surely there are other ways to contract it than from a circ (like umbilical stump, blood draws, vaccines, etc.).
 
#19 ·
I have no idea if the circ caused the infection or not.

But If a lawyer will take the case (on a contingency basis) then there is a good chance of a win/settlement. Will they get hundreds of thousands for pain and suffering? I doubt it. But the lawsuit is important to our cause anyway.

But every time a hospital is sued over a circ, its a good thing - USA medical care standards are driven by liability insurance costs. Just look at the high c-section rate and pediatricians dropping non-vax families. This is all about liability insurance.

:
 
#21 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Finch View Post
I disagree, not seeking a settlement if the child needs further assistance and care is punishing the child, not the parents. The child's needs, regardless of what has transpired, are what is most important here. If he needs further treatment and has defecits because of this, and a settlement will help provide that, then the parents should get it. Punishing the child further for the actions of the parents is counter productive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by A&A View Post
Please let's be nice here. The OP's nephew is potentially brain-damaged, and it doesn't help her to be told that the nephew shouldn't even be in the family. She's asking about legalities. Let's stick to that.
:

i'm sorry for your nephew
: and i hope that he doesn't have brain damage or other lasting effects. have they found a lawyer to take the case? i'm not clear from your posts if they *want* to sue and haven't found someone yet or if they *are* suing.
 
#22 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by sophiekat View Post
:

i'm sorry for your nephew
: and i hope that he doesn't have brain damage or other lasting effects. have they found a lawyer to take the case? i'm not clear from your posts if they *want* to sue and haven't found someone yet or if they *are* suing.
They are giving all their information to lawyers who will then decide if they are going to take the case, I think they will....people have sued the hosp and won in other instances where their children contacted bacterial meningitis in the hosp.
 
#23 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cassandra M. View Post
They were able to confirm that the bacteria went right into his blood stream when he was infected, and he bled a lot during the circ. I feel in every part of my gut it happened when he was circ'ed.
That does not in any way mean that the surgical equipment was dirty or that the procedure was improperly performed. There are a few different types of bacteria that cause meningitis, all of which are common in the environment. We've all been infected with different types of bacteria that cause meningitis and we all carry them in our upper respiratory tracts without symptoms from time to time. They actually belong there, kind of like bifidus or acidophilus belong in your intestines. They only cause disease when the individual's immune system is overtaxed. So he almost certainly caught the bacteria when someone breathed on him, coughed on him or kissed him - something like that. That's how meningitis bacteria are spread. They infect the upper respiratory tract and from there they move into the meninges to cause meningitis or the blood to cause septicemia. I think GBS can cause meningitis as well, so it's possible he caught it during delivery.

Was he breastfed? If so, then it's more than likely that the circumcision was so stressful for him that it completely obliterated any chance of his body keepng the bacteria in check, rather than that the circumcision itself was performed in unsterile conditions.

I don't think they have a case. If the circumcision was done properly, then there was no malpractice. When you make a conscious decision to allow your child to undergo a risky procedure, you don't get awarded damages just because your child happens to be one of those who suffers complications that you knew all along were possible. Legally, it doesn't matter if the child will need care for the rest of his life - it matters if the situation was caused by improper or negligent behavior on the part of the doctor or hospital. If no one did anything wrong (other than the disgusting procedure that the parents asked them to do) then the hospital and doctors weren't negligent and aren't at fault, therefore no damages will be awarded. Awful things can happen when you make poor decisions. You don't get to blame everyone else just because now your child needs special care. It sucks for the child if he doesn't get the care he needs, but this is one big problem with the current system in America. Doctors aren't responsible for poor outcomes when they do everything "right" yet in America, they get sued when things don't work out, even if they provided exemplary care. That's just WRONG. It will be horrible if he has permanent damage and requires special care, but a doctor who did not commit malpractice should not be required to pay for that care.

Edited to clarify that I think it's great if doctors decide circumcision isn't worth the risk of being sued. I just don't think they have any legal grounds to sue in this case because it's more than likely the bacteria was caught some other way. Meningitis bacteria are in the URT of everyone at some point or another and are spread through saliva and droplet spray, where they enter the next person's URT. They don't usually infect open wounds (if ever).
 
#24 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cassandra M. View Post
I've also heard a few people on here say they highly doubt circ'ing would expose a child to a bacteria that could cause bacterial meningitis, and I don't understand why you feel that way. Why wouldn't creating an open wound be apt to introduce infection? It seems absolutely probable to me.


Because the bacteria that cause meningitis enter through the upper respiratory tract, not the blood stream. They can leave the URT and infect the blood stream (septicemia) but they don't originally come in through wounds. You're saying he had meningitis, not septicemia. It seems to me that if there was some way to say for certain that he had been infected via an open wound, it would have to involve septicemia. Meningitis is not an infection of the blood stream. Septicemia is. Meningitis has nothing to do with the blood. It's an inflammation of the meninges, not bacterial infection in the blood. Could you explain how they were able to determine the infection "went directly into his blood"?
 
#25 ·
Thanks for the info, Plummeting...yes, he was breastfed. He is two months old now and is nursing no longer, but she did exclusively breastfeed for almost a week, I think. :sigh
He had meningitis. Hflu type F caused it. I did read that it could be passed through the genital area somewhere...maybe I can dig up the link.

They can sue, people have sued over their children contacting bacteria causing meningitis in the hospital and have won. And there's no way he could have caught it anywhere else since he was a newborn and only went home for a few hours before he had to go back with serious symptoms, so there's no doubt with that.
 
#26 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Plummeting View Post
Because the bacteria that cause meningitis enter through the upper respiratory tract, not the blood stream. They can leave the URT and infect the blood stream (septicemia) but they don't originally come in through wounds. You're saying he had meningitis, not septicemia. It seems to me that if there was some way to say for certain that he had been infected via an open wound, it would have to involve septicemia. Meningitis is not an infection of the blood stream. Septicemia is. Meningitis has nothing to do with the blood. It's an inflammation of the meninges, not bacterial infection in the blood. Could you explain how they were able to determine the infection "went directly into his blood"?
No, you can get it from something like a wound, too.
Or an ear infection that bursts, crosses into the bloodstream, and then sets up in the lining of the brain.
The bacteria have to infect the blood first to make it to the brain, I'm pretty sure.

I think it could have been from the circ. Even if the docs didn't do anything "wrong" (outside of the fact the sexually mutilating people against their will is fundamentally unethical).
 
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