this breaks my heart...UPDATE post 62 - Mothering Forums

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Old 03-21-2007, 04:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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My friend is having twin boys and planning to circ them b/c she is afraid that the sensation of the foreskin will be too much tempation for them and they will masturbate too much. Please help me her understand she needn't circ them..

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Old 03-21-2007, 04:36 PM
 
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This is so sad and so strange!
I just dont understand how someone could be against masturbation-and that they would circumcise their son because of that!
How frusterating. Poor sweet little boys.

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Old 03-21-2007, 04:38 PM
 
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So she believes that her boys won't masturbate if they're circumcised. Wow.
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Old 03-21-2007, 04:43 PM
 
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uhhm, maybe she needs to take a look at some masturbation polls because I have a strong suspician that circumcision is not going to curb it.

Her view seems so wrong and unhealthy.... I just don't know where to start

(and any chance she is pulling a very early April Fool's joke on you)

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Old 03-21-2007, 04:44 PM
 
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Maiming your son so he won't masterbate. That's like blinding him so he won't ogle someone. Incredible. Incredibly sad.
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Old 03-21-2007, 04:48 PM
 
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The original reason for ric was to stop masterbation, tell her it is most effective if you wait until he is 13 to circumcize him... :

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Old 03-21-2007, 04:49 PM
 
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So basically she wants to circ her sons to make sure they have crappy sex lives because she thinks sexual pleasure is wrong?!? :

That's beyond bizarre to me. I wouldn't even know where to start.. she obviously KNOWS one of the major cons to circing... and thinks it's a pro!

Not to mention the fact that masturbation is HEALTHY and will happen regardless of the circ. Those poor boys. Why would you WANT to screw your child up sexually?!?!

Does she think she can keep her sons from EVER having sexual experiences? Why is SHE having sex to procreate if she thinks it's so gross?!?

This just really, really steams me up.

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Old 03-21-2007, 04:50 PM
 
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: , those poor kids.
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Old 03-21-2007, 04:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
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she obviously KNOWS one of the major cons to circing... and thinks it's a pro!
Yup that is why I am at a loss. If you met her you would have no idea she felt this way. I certainly didn't. I have known her for several years and we are not best of friends we worked together and have only recently been back in touch when she was trying to adopt and than got pregnant as I was pumping for her adopted baby (the adoption fell through) .

We email now and then as she asks me for links and stuff about motheirng and NFL stuff.

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Old 03-21-2007, 04:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Amber Lion View Post
So basically she wants to circ her sons to make sure they have crappy sex lives because she thinks sexual pleasure is wrong?!? :

That's beyond bizarre to me. I wouldn't even know where to start.. she obviously KNOWS one of the major cons to circing... and thinks it's a pro!

Not to mention the fact that masturbation is HEALTHY and will happen regardless of the circ. Those poor boys. Why would you WANT to screw your child up sexually?!?!

Does she think she can keep her sons from EVER having sexual experiences? Why is SHE having sex to procreate if she thinks it's so gross?!?

This just really, really steams me up.
: I am beyond words right now... I would no doubt alienate her as a friend with my response so I won't put it here... even though I probably wouldn't MIND alienating her if I were you : OMG...

love and peace.

mama to two girls and due in November!
: Circumcision can never be undone :
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Old 03-21-2007, 04:58 PM
 
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Woah. That is so sad and wrong.

Circumcising her sons to make their penises less sensitive.

Ack. :

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Old 03-21-2007, 05:09 PM
 
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What would she do with a girl?
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Old 03-21-2007, 05:14 PM
 
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MDs in the 1800s and early 20th century also recommended specifically unanesthatized circ to prevent or "cure" masturbation "to associate it with punishment"...
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Old 03-21-2007, 05:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
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This is what I sent so far...
The 1800s thing was probabaly reference to american circumcison...not worldwide. I think everyone knows it's been going since biblical times...however the foreskin is not just for sensitvity....:

The foreskin also serves as a vital defense against infection. Just as the eyelids protect the eyes, the foreskin covers and protects the urinary opening, helping to maintain the sterility of the urinary tract. It also keeps the surface of the glans soft, moist, and sensitive. Thus it maintains optimal warmth, pH balance, and cleanliness.13 Between the foreskin and glans, an antiviral, antibacterial substance called smegma accumulates. Smegma contains several protective substances, including an immunoprotective enzyme, lysozyme, which is also found in tears, breast milk, and other body fluids. When the foreskin is removed during circumcision, smegma no longer accumulates between the foreskin and glans, and smegmaa^?(TM)s immunoprotective properties are lost.14



While you are researching would you just consider that you would not be considering this if you had a girl? Many african cultures teach that girls should be circumcised for the same reasons that we circumcise here in US...and we are horrified by Female genital mutilataion.
As for your freind who wishes he was circumsized he can have the procedure done now and b/c it is his body he has that right. I would not think any man who wants to be cut shouldn't be...babies however are not given the option.

I also have lots of info on the so called "sugar water" as far as helping distract babies. Another think to think about is that the spread eagle position is the mos vulnerable and frightenning position for any human...no matter the age. It is terrifying for an infant to be starpped in that way and then have surgery.
I hope we can keep this dialogue open b/c I would love to see you change your mind.

Valerie

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Old 03-21-2007, 05:24 PM
 
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Hmm...we need to get these links together. Circumcised men have HIGHER frequency of masturbation AND alternate sexual practices. I've read it in several places. They theorize the reason is that since circumcised men "feel less" they compensate with increased frequency (and often have to resort to using other things that stimulate their minds, such as pornography).

Pretty scarry stuff that she is doing this for that reason : .

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Old 03-21-2007, 05:28 PM
 
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Quote:
...data indicate that circumcised men engage in a somewhat more elaborated set of sexual practices than do men who are not circumcised. For each of the practices examined, lifetime experience of various forms of oral and anal sex and masturbation frequency in the past year, circumcised men engaged in these behaviors at greater rates. The difference between circumcised men was greatest for masturbation - ironically, a practice that circumcision was once thought to limit. A total of 47% of circumcised men reported masturbating at least once a month vs 34% for their uncircumcised peers.
http://www.cirp.org/library/general/laumann/

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Old 03-21-2007, 05:39 PM
 
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In case she's ever blessed with girls, let her know applying acid to the clitoris will 'allay abnormal excitement'...

Quote:
A remedy which is almost always successful in small boys is circumcision, especially when there is any degree of phimosis. The operation should be performed by a surgeon without administering an anæsthetic, as the brief pain attending the operation will have a salutary effect upon the mind, especially if it be connected with the idea of punishment, as it may well be in some cases...In females, the author has found the application of pure carbolic acid to the clitoris an excellent means of allaying the abnormal excitement, and preventing the recurrence of the practice in those whose will-power has become so weakened that the patient is unable to exercise entire self-control.

"Plain facts for old and young: embracing the natural history and hygiene of organic life", physician John Harvey Kellogg, l877
Oh, wait, that might just give her ideas.

Jen
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Old 03-21-2007, 05:45 PM
 
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A search for "benefits female circumcison" will produce several sites which contain reference to the medical benefits of removing the clitoral hood - circlist (I know, gross) has a section devoted to female circ and those who attest to its wonderful benefits (medically, sexually, morally...). That'd give her something to think about. But given what she thinks, it might just convince her to circ a girl!!
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Old 03-21-2007, 06:30 PM
 
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She should speak to my family or meet my family the only one who doesn't touch his penis now is my son btw is intact . But my family of my mom's side & dad's side are "HORNY" and I'm not kidding on that !!!!! That's half of the talk of issues they having or jokes like that!!!!!!!! My mom & stepdad actually bruised their butt after a wild dtd ( how I know that ) because my uncle was talking about that and I know they do tmi is so totally embrassing to be around them @ times but oh well .
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Old 03-21-2007, 06:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Attached Mama View Post
And I would outright ask her if their isn't a better way to teach her children their moral values without having to mutilate them in the process!!
:
she doesn't sound confident in her mothering/teaching abilities if she wants to rely on circ to keep her sons from masturbating (holding my tongue as to the merits of such a worldview).
:
let us know how/if she responds.
in the meantime, i would put together every link you can find about how circ negatively affects nursing -- perhaps you can frame it as "just wait a bit" to circ so they can establish bf-ing and give yourself more time to work on the no circ bit?

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Old 03-21-2007, 06:44 PM
 
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Her views are incredibly antiquated and puritanical.

I hope she realizes that circumcised males masturbate just as much as circumcised males. TMI here but my Circed husband acts like he is going to die if he doesn't have intercourse, same goes for most... no wait ALL of the circumcised guys I know. I actually haven't ever met an intact man so I have no point of reference here but I can't imagine them masturbating more than the circed men I have known in my life.

Oh and my circed DS plays with himself just like any other little boy. Is she going to teach her children that their genitals are dirty and set up a terrible association between sexual feelings and guilt.

I came from just such a very puritanical family. We were taught that sex was dirty and "bad" and that it was a sin to masturbate. I was absolutely terrified of the whole idea by the time I was an adult. Not the kindest thing to do to your children IMHO.
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Old 03-21-2007, 06:54 PM
 
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So sad

 
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Old 03-21-2007, 07:25 PM - Thread Starter
 
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She has responded that she agrees with everything I'm saying, but is afraid that if left intact, her child will be 'playing with himself' in kindergarten, and obsessed with sex and masturbation as a teenager. She says she's still willing to keep the dialogue going, so there is a glimmer of hope...

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Old 03-21-2007, 07:37 PM
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When they are 5 (or any other age, for that matter) EVERY BOY plays with himself! And if he happened to be in kindergarten, then kindergarten it is.
Please write to her that if it bothers her, then she needs to work on her issues, not to put this frustration of hers on her babies by mutilating them...
: : : : : : : : : :
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Old 03-21-2007, 07:44 PM
 
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I've never posted a link before, but someone else here posted this for me so I'm passing it along. Hope I do this right:

http://www.udonet.com/circumcision/christian.html
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Old 03-21-2007, 07:57 PM
 
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Wow this so incredibly sad and the circ part is only the start. Circing is not going to stop her sons from masturbating. She has some deep rooted issues going on and I really hope somehow she'll address them and try to move past them.
I do hope at least she'll change her mind about circinig but really that is just one issue.

OUR DAUGHTERS ARE PROTECTED SHOULDN'T OUR SONS BE TOO! :
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Old 03-21-2007, 08:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Yulia_R View Post
When they are 5 (or any other age, for that matter) EVERY BOY plays with himself! And if he happened to be in kindergarten, then kindergarten it is.
Please write to her that if it bothers her, then she needs to work on her issues, not to put this frustration of hers on her babies by mutilating them...
: : : : : : : : : :
That is soooooooooo true!!! I remember babysitting a circ boy of about 3 and he was constantly playing with himself. And btw his parents are anti-masturbation also.

Circ men I know masturbated too. The "theory" that it will lessen masturbation is so untrue!!!!! Ask her why they have to keep coming up with new theories after they started doing circ to prevent masturbation. It's because everyone figured out real quick that it didint' work and if the docs wanted money from circ they had to have other "reasons" which of course have all been proved wrong.
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Old 03-21-2007, 08:40 PM
 
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OMFG

That is one of the saddest things I have read, i really hope that you can get through to her and encourage her to deal with HER issues and obvious guilt related to masterbation...

Please keep us posted as this has been weighing on me since I read it a few hours ago...

Good luck, it's not an easy fight, but judging by her last letter she seems open so JUMP on it...
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Old 03-21-2007, 08:57 PM
 
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That is SO twisted. It amazes me that people like that actually exist in the world!

You could tell her my DAUGHTER has masterbated EVERY DAY since she was about 10 months and she is almost 5. WHAT would she do then?!?!? We are trying to teach her it's something she needs to do in private, but we are in NO WAY trying to stop her. You could also tell her I started early too.

I hope you change her mind. It sounds like SHE has issues that she needs to work out before she becomes a mother of the poor children will suffer....

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Old 03-21-2007, 09:03 PM
 
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What a sick, sad world we live in. :
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