found out a friend circed son - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-23-2007, 11:42 PM - Thread Starter
 
mamamillet's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: east TN
Posts: 1,968
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Just visited a friend and her 2 week old son today and found out that she did have him circed. It makes me sad, sad for the baby and sad for the mom. I thought I might be angry but its just sadness that fills me up when I think about it. I had given the mom lots of reading material, she agreed it wasn't needed and would never bring herself to watch a video of it--her husband was really for it--I don't think she ever had him watch a video and I have no idea if anyone was with the babe when it was done. I just couldn't bring myself to ask any questions or say much about it.

Mama to ds 6/00 and dd 1/09
mamamillet is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-23-2007, 11:46 PM
 
eli's mama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: CT
Posts: 1,174
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
s
I'm so sorry. I'm preparing myself for something similar.

Jessie. Mama to bikenew.gif(7) : broc1.gif(4) and : toddler.gif22 mo 

eli's mama is offline  
Old 06-24-2007, 12:34 AM
 
titania8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: flint, mi
Posts: 1,332
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
im sorry mama.

~helen~ mama to 5 yo twins jonas and micah and my 2 yo baby boy eli
titania8 is offline  
Old 06-24-2007, 12:47 AM
 
Quirky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Princeton, NJ
Posts: 11,770
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm sorry. Unfortunately some people are just so brainwashed by society or damaged by their own experiences that they can't break the cycle of abuse. : At least you tried.

Come visit the NEW QuirkyBaby website -- earn QB Bucks rewards points for purchases, reviews, referrals, and more! Free US shipping on great brands of baby slings and carriers and FREE BabyLegs or babywearing mirror on orders of $100+. Take the QB Quiz for personalized advice!

Quirky is offline  
Old 06-24-2007, 01:33 AM
 
MommytoB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,115
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Are there too many 'anti-conflicters' I know there is this one guy in our church who's a jr high minstry pastor he is a 'slight bit younger than me but he stated at one time during the adult bible study he 'avoid conflicts ' he is a anti-conflict.

Why do some mom's just go with their husbands word does that have to do with the term of follow the man of the house they used to make a man in the past to seem to be a leader of the family then maybe some still belive that .

It is a sad thing just because the husband was circ'ed his son got circ'ed if he wasn't circ'ed then there would not have been likely any discussion and both of them would have been intact. Just one change involved a double change which later on will soon become a 'triple change' because of the 'grandsons'
MommytoB is offline  
Old 06-24-2007, 01:43 AM - Thread Starter
 
mamamillet's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: east TN
Posts: 1,968
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I avoid conflict if I can but do believe that some are unavoidable--the ones that have anything to do with what is right for my son. I do not compromise well--maybe why I am still single-- but many women feel that as a parent the father has a part in decision making, which I guess theorectially he does but I do feel there are certain issues I wouldn't be able to compromise on--but thats me. This dad also had a circ complication-bent penis. hope his son fares better.

Mama to ds 6/00 and dd 1/09
mamamillet is offline  
Old 06-24-2007, 02:08 AM
 
CaraNicole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: in the Deathly Hallows
Posts: 1,446
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
that poor little boy!
CaraNicole is offline  
Old 06-24-2007, 09:33 AM
 
pixie2225's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
So sorry! I have been in similar situations with friends and even my sister-in-law. My SIL is jewish and my family attended the bris. Talk about an emotional day. We just have to have faith that we have made informed decisions for our families and keep our chins up when dealing with those who have chosen a different path. However, I realize how frustrating it is when you've taken the time to educate someone and they still fall into "societal norms".
pixie2225 is offline  
Old 06-25-2007, 03:57 PM
 
KBecks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,871
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MommytoB View Post
Are there too many 'anti-conflicters' I know there is this one guy in our church who's a jr high minstry pastor he is a 'slight bit younger than me but he stated at one time during the adult bible study he 'avoid conflicts ' he is a anti-conflict.

Why do some mom's just go with their husbands word does that have to do with the term of follow the man of the house they used to make a man in the past to seem to be a leader of the family then maybe some still belive that .

It is a sad thing just because the husband was circ'ed his son got circ'ed if he wasn't circ'ed then there would not have been likely any discussion and both of them would have been intact. Just one change involved a double change which later on will soon become a 'triple change' because of the 'grandsons'
I'm not a follow the man type, I run most things, but I do believe couples are partners in decision making. So I involved my husband and he was much more passionate about circing, it seemed very important to him.

I don't think its accuate to categorize women who permit circ as weak. Maybe weak on that particular decision, but not weak overall.
KBecks is offline  
Old 06-26-2007, 04:51 PM
 
vermontgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Northern Vermont
Posts: 2,078
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamamillet View Post
Just visited a friend
I personally would not consider her a friend anymore. I cannot continue friendships with people who abuse their children-even though the information was provided for them.

Joyful mama of 3.
vermontgirl is offline  
Old 06-26-2007, 04:58 PM
 
karina5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,408
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by vermontgirl View Post
I personally would not consider her a friend anymore. I cannot continue friendships with people who abuse their children-even though the information was provided for them.
Oh for pete's sake. While I am anti-circumcision, and both my DH and DS are intact, this is ridiculous.

She's not starving him, beating him, or neglecting him. I can't stand circumcision, but this is overboard.
karina5 is offline  
Old 06-26-2007, 04:59 PM
 
StrawHatBrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 836
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by vermontgirl View Post
I personally would not consider her a friend anymore. I cannot continue friendships with people who abuse their children-even though the information was provided for them.
Wow.
StrawHatBrat is offline  
Old 06-26-2007, 05:12 PM
 
carriebft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,219
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think it's hard when you are deep in in the inactivism plight and you give all the information to someone and they still choose to cut their sons. I don't think it's overboard at all that some people step away from relationships where their "friend" ignores everything given to them, has their son strapped down to a board, has their genitals skinned....

It might not be my choice, to walk away from the friendship (although it might be, I havent been in this exact situation yet), but I would never consider it overboard that someone else might walk away or distance themself.

I know I would have a tough time looking into the face of someone who had their daughter's genitals cut, even if it was a friend. If one of my friends cut their son despite all my information giving, I would probably feel the same way...

"Parents are simply trustees; they do not own the bodies of their children"-Norm Cohen  Martial arts instructor intactlact.gifhomebirth.jpgnak.gif and mom to 4: DD1 (1/05) DS (7/06) DD2 (5/08) DD3 (2/11)
carriebft is offline  
Old 06-26-2007, 05:21 PM
 
Papai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,320
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by karina5 View Post
Oh for pete's sake. While I am anti-circumcision, and both my DH and DS are intact, this is ridiculous.

She's not starving him, beating him, or neglecting him. I can't stand circumcision, but this is overboard.
I'm the same as you, in that I don't defriend people who circ, but I can understand why some people choose to step away from those who do.
Papai is offline  
Old 06-26-2007, 06:10 PM
 
Daisyuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 929
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by karina5 View Post
Oh for pete's sake. While I am anti-circumcision, and both my DH and DS are intact, this is ridiculous.

She's not starving him, beating him, or neglecting him. I can't stand circumcision, but this is overboard.
No, she isn't starving, beating him or neglecting him. SHE CUT OFF PART OF HIS PENIS, a genital mutilation that will affect him for his entire life, so he will be forced to look and function how his mother prefers. It's just as bad as starving, beating and neglecting, especially now, where there is NO chance at all that he will grow up in ignorance of what she has taken. She took the risk that he could lose his penis completely or even die, and the chances are that he will spend his whole childhood suffering excrutiating pain from repeated attacks by his parents and/or doctors while they pull apart his adhesions. All completely unnecessary.

Why are you trying to trivialise it?
Daisyuk is offline  
Old 06-26-2007, 08:20 PM
 
karina5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,408
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daisyuk View Post
No, she isn't starving, beating him or neglecting him. SHE CUT OFF PART OF HIS PENIS, a genital mutilation that will affect him for his entire life, so he will be forced to look and function how his mother prefers. It's just as bad as starving, beating and neglecting, especially now, where there is NO chance at all that he will grow up in ignorance of what she has taken. She took the risk that he could lose his penis completely or even die, and the chances are that he will spend his whole childhood suffering excrutiating pain from repeated attacks by his parents and/or doctors while they pull apart his adhesions. All completely unnecessary.

Why are you trying to trivialise it?
I said that I think circumcision is wrong. So we agree on that.

But I think it's petty to stop being friends w/ someone who did this. I will never view male circumcision in the same category as a truly abused child. I know you have a lot of people here who do, but I'm sorry, I just can't.

I have seen children w/ cigarette burns on their bottoms, left in the same diapers for 4 days, no food, and other really sick things. Really sick.

It's just not the same to me, and circumcising your baby, while I don't condone it and I even think it's "bad", is just not even CLOSE to being in the same category.
karina5 is offline  
Old 06-26-2007, 08:24 PM
 
christifav's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 501
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by eli's mama View Post
s
I'm so sorry. I'm preparing myself for something similar.
me too.
christifav is offline  
Old 06-26-2007, 09:17 PM
 
Daisyuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 929
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by karina5 View Post
I have seen children w/ cigarette burns on their bottoms, left in the same diapers for 4 days, no food, and other really sick things. Really sick.

It's just not the same to me, and circumcising your baby, while I don't condone it and I even think it's "bad", is just not even CLOSE to being in the same category.
And what exactly is the difference between a cigarette burn (which leaves a scar only), or being left in the same diaper for 4 days (causing sores and pain, possible scarring and infection but no tissue lost), or lack of food (which can be made up later and which leaves no obvious signs at all) and a genital mutilation, which removes a large amount of erogenous tissue permanently and which is constantly re-opened, torn and messed about with for several years?

I would suggest that your cultural conditioning to accept one and not the other is coming into play here, how can you NOT see that this is the same thing?
Daisyuk is offline  
Old 06-26-2007, 09:28 PM
 
karina5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,408
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daisyuk View Post
And what exactly is the difference between a cigarette burn (which leaves a scar only), or being left in the same diaper for 4 days (causing sores and pain, possible scarring and infection but no tissue lost), or lack of food (which can be made up later and which leaves no obvious signs at all) and a genital mutilation, which removes a large amount of erogenous tissue permanently and which is constantly re-opened, torn and messed about with for several years?

I would suggest that your cultural conditioning to accept one and not the other is coming into play here, how can you NOT see that this is the same thing?


I'm not gonna get into it w/ you. We agree more than we disagree.

I know what I've seen, and I understand your point (I truly do).

But I will never see a circumcised penis in the same realm of abuse as some of the horrendous crap I've witnessed. Unless you've seen a baby with bitemarks and cigarette burns all over their skin, you will not know what I mean. It is NOT as you describe which completely whitewashes VERY MESSED UP situations.

It's okay that you disagree with me on this point.
karina5 is offline  
Old 06-26-2007, 09:34 PM
 
Daisyuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 929
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Actually I DO know what you mean, and I can't see the difference between inflicting torture to a baby's genitals (which does go on for years in some cases), and torture to the rest of his/her body. Why do you think the genitals are somehow exempt?
Daisyuk is offline  
Old 06-26-2007, 09:41 PM
 
karina5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,408
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Daisy,

You put 2 babies next to each other: One w/ cigarette burns and bitemarks all over him, and the other baby has a penis that has been circumcised. (And I am talking circumcised in a hospital, not out in the back woods w/ Grandpa's hunting knife).

You HONESTLY THINK that the one who has been circumcised is worse off???

:

If that is truly your way of thinking then I think you are doing a major disservice to the cause of not circumcising.

I told you: I think circumcision is wrong. But I CANNOT believe you are saying a baby that has been horribly burned and bitten is better off than the baby who has been circumcised.

It is unbelievably offensive, and is making me sick to my stomach.

I have a friend over, and I am truly done now.
karina5 is offline  
Old 06-26-2007, 10:09 PM
 
nigellas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 755
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Karina, They are both horrendous crimes against babies. One is just more socially acceptable than the other.
nigellas is offline  
Old 06-26-2007, 10:10 PM
 
gridley13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Poignant Extravaganza
Posts: 857
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have ended one friendship over the mother's decision to circ, regardless of all the info. Her reason for doing it was something like, "you are talking to someone who has been with an uncirc'd man and found it very unappealing".

Another friend went through everything I sent her and talked with me at length as did her husband. In the end, they did it because they just couldn't handle the thought of him being teased by some girl in an intimate situation. They did make a specific separate apointment with the OB about having the pain relief exactly as they wanted it and educated themselves on the proper care afterwards. I can't explain why, but I was able to accept that, as disappointed as I was, and we remain friends. I do think differently of her now though.

I even now, 2 years later, think sometimes I should end the friendship to make my point but the truth is I want this friend in my life and at the very least, she DID go through the research and take it all seriously. Again, her reasons were just as horrible as the first friend... but I handled them differently. I don't know why.

I have a former friend who left his 2 year old in a hotel room sleeping by herself while he went out, found drugs, got in a fight with cops and wound up in the hospital then jail before he told someone to check on the toddler. I am NOT friends with him any longer.

Ending a friendship is a big deal lots of times... many factors to consider. I feel VERY strongly about circumcision but even as passionate as I am, I don't always end friendships over it.
gridley13 is offline  
Old 06-26-2007, 10:26 PM
 
Daisyuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 929
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by karina5 View Post
Daisy,

You put 2 babies next to each other: One w/ cigarette burns and bitemarks all over him, and the other baby has a penis that has been circumcised. (And I am talking circumcised in a hospital, not out in the back woods w/ Grandpa's hunting knife).

You HONESTLY THINK that the one who has been circumcised is worse off???

:

If that is truly your way of thinking then I think you are doing a major disservice to the cause of not circumcising.

I told you: I think circumcision is wrong. But I CANNOT believe you are saying a baby that has been horribly burned and bitten is better off than the baby who has been circumcised.

It is unbelievably offensive, and is making me sick to my stomach.

I have a friend over, and I am truly done now.
The one who is circumcised is MISSING part of his genitals. Both will heal. Just WHO is it that is permanently missing a large amount of erogenous flesh from his body? WHO is it that is going to suffer further years of officially sanctioned abuse from parents and/or doctors pulling his healing wound apart again causing him further scarring and excrutiating pain? WHO is liable to suffer the further pain of a re-circ if the parents decide they don't like the look of the first, or corrective surgery if the first gets botched? ALL on the most sensitive part of his body.

There are also all the other complications and pain associated with it - just because the parents don't deliberately inflict meatal ulcers, meatitis, meatal stenosis, and all the other horrors suffered by circumcised boys, doesn't mean that it's any different, those that knowingly and willingly risk this happening are just as abusive as the person wielding the lighted cigarette, because they seem to be happy to accept the risk of it happening - or indeed the risk of him dying. It isn't any different to any other abusive relationship, it's just socially accepted over there. Exactly HOW is constantly causing a child pain and distress and leaving him with mutilated genitals for no reason NOT abuse?

You can't see it because you have cultural blinkers on. It is people like yourself who just can't see that these babies need protecting just as much as the others, who allow this abomination to continue.
Daisyuk is offline  
Old 06-26-2007, 10:39 PM
 
karina5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,408
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daisyuk View Post
The one who is circumcised is MISSING part of his genitals. Both will heal. Just WHO is it that is permanently missing a large amount of erogenous flesh from his body? WHO is it that is going to suffer further years of officially sanctioned abuse from parents and/or doctors pulling his healing wound apart again causing him further scarring and excrutiating pain? WHO is liable to suffer the further pain of a re-circ if the parents decide they don't like the look of the first, or corrective surgery if the first gets botched? ALL on the most sensitive part of his body.

There are also all the other complications and pain associated with it - just because the parents don't deliberately inflict meatal ulcers, meatitis, meatal stenosis, and all the other horrors suffered by circumcised boys, doesn't mean that it's any different, those that knowingly and willingly risk this happening are just as abusive as the person wielding the lighted cigarette, because they seem to be happy to accept the risk of it happening - or indeed the risk of him dying. It isn't any different to any other abusive relationship, it's just socially accepted over there. Exactly HOW is constantly causing a child pain and distress and leaving him with mutilated genitals for no reason NOT abuse?

You can't see it because you have cultural blinkers on. It is people like yourself who just can't see that these babies need protecting just as much as the others, who allow this abomination to continue.

Wow. This is offensive on so many levels I can't even begin to respond.
karina5 is offline  
Old 06-26-2007, 10:41 PM
Banned
 
ThreeBeans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,868
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by vermontgirl View Post
I personally would not consider her a friend anymore. I cannot continue friendships with people who abuse their children-even though the information was provided for them.
I agree with you.
ThreeBeans is offline  
Old 06-26-2007, 10:56 PM
 
carriebft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,219
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It is only that our culture accepts circumcision that someone could look at a child with a mutilated penis and a child with a cigarette burn and call one "worse" or "better" than the other.

I am sure, Karina, that if someone showed you a child with a piece of their ear torn off and a child with a cigarette burn, you would call them both horrible, unthinkable, terrible...whatever other words. You would not compare them.

Yet, add a circumcised boy in there with his wound wide open, and you say his wound is less?

I cry for our society.

(and, yes, I am talking only about the wounds. Yes, I know the family life of the other two COULD be worse, more dangerous, whatever words you want to use. But all of their wounds hurt. They all bleed, they all are full of pain inflicted on them by those who should be trusted and give only love!)

"Parents are simply trustees; they do not own the bodies of their children"-Norm Cohen  Martial arts instructor intactlact.gifhomebirth.jpgnak.gif and mom to 4: DD1 (1/05) DS (7/06) DD2 (5/08) DD3 (2/11)
carriebft is offline  
Old 06-26-2007, 11:12 PM
 
phatchristy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Controlled chaos...
Posts: 9,037
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I get the impression from reading this thread that in general most people would agree (based on the assumed cultural bias for circumcised as the "norm" in this country) with the following here:

Most people here in the US circ out of ignorance, because they "didn't know any better", had mis-information about it from other people, their husbands insisted and they just go along thinking it's a minor snip-snip with baby not feeling any discomfort of pain. I don't think someone would drop a friendship with someone they find out had in the past circumcised a child with no knowledge that they were inflicting permanent physical and psychological harm-- Not to mention, permanent physical damage forever depriving them of the most sensual and sensitive tissues on their body. Most people don't feel that way in this country because in some areas of the US it is so culturally ingrained that people just think "it's done" like cutting the cord after birth or getting shots.

HOWEVER, when you are friends with a woman. They know you for years, and you are open and share all of the information with them. When they read it and literally admit to you that circumcision is again unnecessary, that they know their child will feel pain, that they know they are depriving their child of valuable sexual tissue...they admit to all of that...YET STILL do it...well, then I think most people here would have difficulty maintaining a friendship with someone who did not act to protect their child from harm and protect their right to an intact body. To knowingly let someone harm your child...when you could have stopped it. I think that IS the issue.

I know someone who did just that. We shared the information with her about circumcision. She read it all, watched the video. Agreed with us, said she didn't want to do it. She even told us..."I just handed them the baby and let them take him away so I could go out of the office so I didn't have a chance to hear the screams." When the mother let it happen, defying her natural instince to protect her child...mainly because of societal norms and going against the grain of her family...sigh. It's honestly hard NOT to let a situation like that affect your friendship, regardless of whether or not you try to get past it. She said that in her case, she figured even though she agreed with all of the sexual side effects and knew that she was depriving him, that she figured he would never know what he lost anyhow...just like her husband never knew what sensation he lost since he was circ'd...so what was the big deal...: .

This particular person, who I went through that experience with....well, she sort of fell away from our group of friends. Everyone was so shocked when they found out that she voluntarily drove her son in to be circ'd (after she told all of us she agreed with us and *knew* it would cause him harm). I mean, literally...the girls in our group were so sad and nobody could think of her the same way ever again. Even now, years later...whenever I think of her that is what I think of.

Perpetually breastfeeding or pregnant ENFP mom to a lot of kids...wife to a midwestern nice guy...living in tropical paradise...pink cats and homebirths rock!

phatchristy is offline  
Old 06-26-2007, 11:19 PM
 
paquerette's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Poconos
Posts: 6,594
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Daisy. I agree with you completely. I think I know what you mean about the cultural blinders. It took me a few years to go from "circ seems like a silly idea" to "circ seems like a pretty mean thing to do" to "circ is WRONG but worse things happen to people" to "OMG circ is a horrible painful mutilation and one of the most horrible things I can imagine to do to someone." It was a long process, and I have been very immersed in the issue the whole time.
paquerette is offline  
Old 06-26-2007, 11:19 PM
 
carriebft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,219
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Well said, phatchristy.

"Parents are simply trustees; they do not own the bodies of their children"-Norm Cohen  Martial arts instructor intactlact.gifhomebirth.jpgnak.gif and mom to 4: DD1 (1/05) DS (7/06) DD2 (5/08) DD3 (2/11)
carriebft is offline  
 
User Tag List

Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off