What to do, what to do? UPDATED! - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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#31 of 50 Old 06-26-2007, 11:38 PM
 
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One of the things I really hate about circumcision is how it turns marriages into a battleground in this country, especially because those of us who are less than mainstream are already researching and making many other non-mainstream choices, like breastfeeding/extended breastfeeding, co-sleeping, babywearing, eating organic, not vaxing, what have you. I think a lot of guys think "well, I'm the dad, I should get to decide something, and since I have a penis, how junior's penis should look should be up to me."

But the fact is, circumcision of all issues should not be up for discussion, any more than we should be sitting down with our partners during pregnancy and having a debate on the merits of female circumcision at birth for our babies. It just shouldn't be a choice to be made in the first place because it's not our bodies!!!!

Just looking at all the various parenting decisions we make from the perspective of the family -- breastfeeding involves the mother's body, co-sleeping involves whoever sleeps in bed with the baby, eating organic is more expensive, babywearing takes a grownup to do, eating organic affects the family budget, homeschooling is hard work and most often requires a SAHP, having another baby affects the whole family, having a homebirth or a doula is usually more expensive than a hospital birth, even not vaxing has the potential to affect other people in terms of disease transmission (please don't start debating vax, just using it as an example), attachment parenting in general just requires more work and time and attention from the parents. All of these things may be the right thing to do in general, but all of them affect the adults and the other children in the family in different ways for positive or negative and all merit discussions and informed decision-making.

Circumcision alone of all possible parenting issues affects no one else but the baby during childhood when the baby is in his parents' custody. Adulthood and the effect of circ on sexual partners is a whole different issue, but again it's got nothing to do with parenting. So circumcision is not really a "parenting" decision at all because it's not going to affect anyone else in the family in any detrimental way. IMO it shouldn't even be in the same category as parenting decisions, because there's nothing to decide that will have impacts on the rest of the family.

I think when you take the issue off the table as something to be decided -- it's simply "his body, his choice, we're not going to do something to our baby's genitals without his permission" -- then the whole thing becomes a lot simpler and easier. It's not about disrespecting your dh -- it's about respecting your son's personhood and human rights and right to bodily integrity. Your dh can help you decide about issues that will affect you, him, and/or the family as a whole. Neither he nor you can decide to do something to your baby that will permanently alter his body for no legitimate medical reason -- it's just not your decision to make.

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#32 of 50 Old 06-26-2007, 11:46 PM
 
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: very well said Quirky

 
SAHMlady.gifread.giflovin' trekkie.giffan intactivist.gifwinner.jpg to loveeyes.gifenergy.gifDD 10/00 & superhero.gifmoon.gifDS 10/04 ribbonpb.gifIf your ds is intact, keep him safe, visit the Case Against Circ forumnocirc.gifCirc, a personal choice, Your sonsyes.gifbrokenheart.gif11/98brokenheart.gif6/99ribbonbrown.gifanti-tobaccoribbonyellow.gifThyroid cancer survivor. With cat.gif& goldfish.gif & (Boxer)dog2.gif wishing 4 whale.gif&ribbonwhite.gifsigncirc1.gifselectivevax.gifdelayedvax.gif

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#33 of 50 Old 06-26-2007, 11:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Quirky View Post
One of the things I really hate about circumcision is how it turns marriages into a battleground in this country, especially because those of us who are less than mainstream are already researching and making many other non-mainstream choices, like breastfeeding/extended breastfeeding, co-sleeping, babywearing, eating organic, not vaxing, what have you. I think a lot of guys think "well, I'm the dad, I should get to decide something, and since I have a penis, how junior's penis should look should be up to me."

But the fact is, circumcision of all issues should not be up for discussion, any more than we should be sitting down with our partners during pregnancy and having a debate on the merits of female circumcision at birth for our babies. It just shouldn't be a choice to be made in the first place because it's not our bodies!!!!

Just looking at all the various parenting decisions we make from the perspective of the family -- breastfeeding involves the mother's body, co-sleeping involves whoever sleeps in bed with the baby, eating organic is more expensive, babywearing takes a grownup to do, eating organic affects the family budget, homeschooling is hard work and most often requires a SAHP, having another baby affects the whole family, having a homebirth or a doula is usually more expensive than a hospital birth, even not vaxing has the potential to affect other people in terms of disease transmission (please don't start debating vax, just using it as an example), attachment parenting in general just requires more work and time and attention from the parents. All of these things may be the right thing to do in general, but all of them affect the adults and the other children in the family in different ways for positive or negative and all merit discussions and informed decision-making.

Circumcision alone of all possible parenting issues affects no one else but the baby during childhood when the baby is in his parents' custody. Adulthood and the effect of circ on sexual partners is a whole different issue, but again it's got nothing to do with parenting. So circumcision is not really a "parenting" decision at all because it's not going to affect anyone else in the family in any detrimental way. IMO it shouldn't even be in the same category as parenting decisions, because there's nothing to decide that will have impacts on the rest of the family.

I think when you take the issue off the table as something to be decided -- it's simply "his body, his choice, we're not going to do something to our baby's genitals without his permission" -- then the whole thing becomes a lot simpler and easier. It's not about disrespecting your dh -- it's about respecting your son's personhood and human rights and right to bodily integrity. Your dh can help you decide about issues that will affect you, him, and/or the family as a whole. Neither he nor you can decide to do something to your baby that will permanently alter his body for no legitimate medical reason -- it's just not your decision to make.
i love this post...it makes so much sense to me...

peace...

Homeschooling Ama to boys (ages 10 and 6) and my SoldierGirl who is serving in the US Army, StepMom to three crazy teens. I'm married to the love of my life. 

 

Love is an action word. 

Words have power...use them wisely.

Who you are is just enough.

Molon Labe

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#34 of 50 Old 06-27-2007, 01:00 AM
 
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Wow Quirky, that one should become an article or pamphalet or something.

Timmy's Mommy WARNINGyslexic typing with help of preschooler, beware of typos
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#35 of 50 Old 06-27-2007, 01:54 AM
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Quirky, I think that's a good place to start..........but hopefully my son won't consider circumcision a "choice" when he becomes an adult. (I want my son and my daughter to keep their full, intact genitalia and not want to cut part of it off.)

"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
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#36 of 50 Old 06-27-2007, 09:52 AM
 
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I want to offer you lots of encouragement!!!

I think you have involved DH by having conversations about the issue already. You have heard his concerns.

As for the decision -- here's a thought -- anything that a married couple don't both enthusiastically agree "YES" on, is a "NO." If you aren't BOTH saying yes to circ, then it's a no-go.

Skip the gauze and I wouldn't bring it up with him unless he brings it up. You will always have time to talk about it, a circ doesn't have to happen right away, so you shouldn't feel pressured at all, and if he seems urgent about it, ask him to relax and you both can take your time discussing it when you are ready.

Hope that helps and congrats and good luck with the birth!!!
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#37 of 50 Old 06-27-2007, 11:14 AM
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Were you able to get the video to work for you?

"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
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#38 of 50 Old 06-27-2007, 11:18 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A&A
Quirky, I think that's a good place to start..........but hopefully my son won't consider circumcision a "choice" when he becomes an adult. (I want my son and my daughter to keep their full, intact genitalia and not want to cut part of it off.)
Oh, ITA, but that's a bridge that can be crossed later. The biggest issue here is getting this baby home and grown up safely intact; there's 18+ years after that to educate him about the value of his whole body.

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#39 of 50 Old 06-27-2007, 11:23 AM
 
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You are so right. I don't think I ever intended to let it actually happen. I don't know why I wrote those stupid things on that stupid list. I would just really love it if DH could see my point of view and feel like he was involved in actually refusing consent for it.
If know I said this before, but I will say it again. Perhaps it's how I am, but I can't let something like this rest unless it's sorted. I would have to say to my husband 'ok so just to clarify we are NOT having him circumsised and I will NOT sign the consent forms.' You have years to turn your DH into an soldier for the cause but right now the important thing is to protect your little guy form this.
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#40 of 50 Old 06-28-2007, 11:00 AM
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Just keep saying to your dh, "I'm sorry, but I can't let you circumcise our son."

"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
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#41 of 50 Old 06-28-2007, 12:32 PM
 
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I would NEVER allow my husband to decide to mutilate a child of ours, no matter what the marital problems.

You are the mom. You are giving birth to this precious baby. It is your obligation to protect him.

I might talk it to death between now and then, but I would make it quite clear that I would never allow it to happen.

-Angela
CORRECT!!!!

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#42 of 50 Old 06-28-2007, 08:48 PM
 
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It took my DH a year after DS#2 was born (and not cut) to come around. He finally agrees that we won't circ any future children. He isn't an intactavist, but he knows it isn't needed. Now is not the time to try and convience your DH that you are right. Be very polite, be very firm, tell him this child will not be circumcised. It's not DHs decision, it's not your decision, it's your sons decision that he will make when he is older.

DS#1 is cut, my choice, didn't realize I had one. DS#2 is intact. We fought a lot about it, but I was very firm and never faultered. Finally when I was around 7 months pregnant I told him that DS won't be cut, that is the final decision, he doesn't get a say. We quit talking about it, and DH eventually followed suit.
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#43 of 50 Old 07-13-2007, 02:31 AM
 
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Checking to see if there is a update.

 
SAHMlady.gifread.giflovin' trekkie.giffan intactivist.gifwinner.jpg to loveeyes.gifenergy.gifDD 10/00 & superhero.gifmoon.gifDS 10/04 ribbonpb.gifIf your ds is intact, keep him safe, visit the Case Against Circ forumnocirc.gifCirc, a personal choice, Your sonsyes.gifbrokenheart.gif11/98brokenheart.gif6/99ribbonbrown.gifanti-tobaccoribbonyellow.gifThyroid cancer survivor. With cat.gif& goldfish.gif & (Boxer)dog2.gif wishing 4 whale.gif&ribbonwhite.gifsigncirc1.gifselectivevax.gifdelayedvax.gif

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#44 of 50 Old 07-13-2007, 04:32 AM
 
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I'm kind of thinking if I just ride it out and wait until the actual birth when it's time to make the decision, he'll just go with the flow and let me say no.
Let you say no? You don't need his permission to protect your son from genital mutilation.

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Above all, I *really* don't want DH to feel like I'm leaving him out of this decision.
With all due respect, the decision is neither of yours to make, any more than it would be up to either of you whether to circumcise your daughter (if you ever have one). It's your child's penis, not yours. So you and your husband are both in the same boat with respect to who (ought to) have the decision making power on this issue. It's your son's decision, not yours or your husband's.
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#45 of 50 Old 07-23-2007, 03:08 AM - Thread Starter
 
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for update!
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#46 of 50 Old 07-23-2007, 03:18 AM
 
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Yay! Congrats!
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#47 of 50 Old 07-23-2007, 10:40 AM
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Wow! What a gorgeous little guy! I assume he's lucky to be whole as well!
How did your dh take it?
yulia.
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#48 of 50 Old 07-23-2007, 11:34 AM
 
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Congratulations on your little boy!!!!
I'm so glad your DH didn't give you a hard time.
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#49 of 50 Old 07-23-2007, 01:11 PM
 
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Congratulations!!! Welcome baby boy!! I am so glad you left him inact, woot!!!

OUR DAUGHTERS ARE PROTECTED SHOULDN'T OUR SONS BE TOO! :
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#50 of 50 Old 07-23-2007, 01:11 PM
 
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HAPPY UPDATE!

Our beautiful boy was born last Monday, July 16, and we left him intact. DH said he could see how important it was to me and that he was leaving the decision up to me.

Thanks for your help, ladies!
Oh my goodness....he is so beautiful! Thanks so much for this update. I am so happy for you, and your family.

Take care,
Tara

Tara Momma to Callum and Gavin
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