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#1 of 49 Old 07-16-2007, 05:10 PM - Thread Starter
 
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what if your hubby is procirc, and the reason he is, is because ALL the guys he knows who AREN'T circ'ed (or were circ'ed as adults) hate it and wish their parents had it done when they were born?
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#2 of 49 Old 07-16-2007, 05:12 PM
 
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It still isn't his decision to make for his child. His child can make that decision as an adult if he chooses. Not his penis not his decision.
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#3 of 49 Old 07-16-2007, 05:14 PM - Thread Starter
 
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i'm gonna need more than that...
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#4 of 49 Old 07-16-2007, 05:14 PM
 
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Call him out on it. Get the story straight from these supposed "many" men who wanted to be circed. Then find out if they actually went through with it.

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#5 of 49 Old 07-16-2007, 05:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
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that's a good idea, i know of one for sure who did because i used to work with him as well, and i asked another guy friend of mine the same thing, if he had any friends who weren't circ'ed or who got circ'ed as adults and he told me the same thing:
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#6 of 49 Old 07-16-2007, 05:18 PM
 
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Also, if you find these men really exist, ask them the functions of the foreskin. 100$ says they dont know them ignorance could be a big factor here.

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#7 of 49 Old 07-16-2007, 05:25 PM
 
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I bet he doesn't know many guys that were left intact and every pro-circer I've come across knows someone who either hated having his whole penis or 'had' to be circed later and was so awful. I wonder if it's all the same guy. Only in the US do guys wish their penises were lacking, absurd.

Anyway, with circumcision on the down fall it's less likely a boy today will be the only one who has his whole penis. So, it's less likely a guy will want to get circed so his penis with fit in with his friend's penises.
I'd tell my dh he needs to research if he was trying to use that argument will me.

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#8 of 49 Old 07-16-2007, 05:26 PM
 
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what if your hubby is procirc, and the reason he is, is because ALL the guys he knows who AREN'T circ'ed (or were circ'ed as adults) hate it and wish their parents had it done when they were born?
Tell him to prove it.

Call the guys up and ask them. Call his bluff.
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#9 of 49 Old 07-16-2007, 05:29 PM
 
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Keep in mind too that these guys (if they're for real and not a "friend of a friend of a friend") were brought up in a culture that devalues foreskins. So they've been raised to think that their own bodies are gross.

Keep in mind too that many of them if they actually survived childhood with their foreskins intact may have been damaged by overzealous "cleaning" regimens that inappropriately retracted them, causing scarring/true phimosis and infections.

Ask most European and Asian and Latin American guys if they wish they were circed and you'll get that green-around-the-gills protective-crossing-of-legs response and a hearty "hell no!"

People have all sorts of negative body images about themselves because of the dominant culture and want to do crazy things to make themselves fit the norm more closely. It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with their bodies; it means something is seriously screwed up with the dominant culture that only values light skin/blue eyes/straight hair/skinny bodies/height/circed penises whatever, and tells people that don't meet this norm that they're dirty/shameful/worthless/LESS THAN.

Besides, any intact adult who is so troubled by his foreskin that he wants to be rid of it forever can go out and do that pretty easily -- it's not major surgery, pretty much any urologist would be happy to take his money, and he'll get great painkillers afterwards. So he has no (third? : ) leg to stand on.

As for a baby? His body, his right to decide for himself how it will look (and function) when he's an adult.

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#10 of 49 Old 07-16-2007, 05:39 PM
 
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I would ask if they did get it done and if so see what they say because men who are unhappy with getting circumcised as an adult actually will know what they are missing & assume if they were a baby they wouldn't know both ways.

Plus, it's hard for some men to admit they made a mistake so they may say they wanted it instead of being tricked into it.
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#11 of 49 Old 07-16-2007, 05:57 PM
 
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what if your hubby is procirc, and the reason he is, is because ALL the guys he knows who AREN'T circ'ed (or were circ'ed as adults) hate it and wish their parents had it done when they were born?
First, I'd ask him how he knows the status of so many men.

Second, ask him to make a list of names of all these men who have these complaints. Since he knows such intimate details, he should be able to name names.

Third, have him ask all of these men why they haven't simply gone out and done it themselves.

Since men don't generally talk about their penises amongst themselves, my theory is that he probably doesn't know the status of any men or their wishes regarding circumcision. Even if he does, its probably only a handful and not enough to constitute a good sample.

I'm sure someone here will post the Vulnerability of Men article... good advice. Your husband is probably feeling insecure.
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#12 of 49 Old 07-16-2007, 06:36 PM
 
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First, I'd ask him how he knows the status of so many men.

Second, ask him to make a list of names of all these men who have these complaints. Since he knows such intimate details, he should be able to name names.

Third, have him ask all of these men why they haven't simply gone out and done it themselves.
i totally agree with this...my partner doesnt know if any of his friends are intact or circ'd, nor does he care...he figures its none of his business, since he is not having intimate relationships with them...

your partners reason for wanting to circ makes me angry... :

peace...

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#13 of 49 Old 07-16-2007, 06:52 PM
 
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ALL the guys he knows who AREN'T circ'ed (or were circ'ed as adults)
He can't know too many, because adult men today, when they were babies the circ rates were very high, so it's hard to believe he would know tons of men like he is describing. Secondly, maybe it's a cultural thing, if they are all from the same neck of the woods, that might explain why they hate their penises so much, I guess.

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#14 of 49 Old 07-16-2007, 07:03 PM
 
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that's a good idea, i know of one for sure who did because i used to work with him as well,
Have you asked this guy if he is happier with the function of his penis now that part of it has been amputated? I'd be willing to bet my last dollar that he's not, even if he wouldn't admit it.

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#15 of 49 Old 07-16-2007, 07:20 PM
 
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Do guys actually talk about whether they're circumcised or not? I would wager that my husband has no idea what the foreskin-status of his closest friends is, except that the odds of a 30-something man in America are high that he's circumcised.
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#16 of 49 Old 07-16-2007, 07:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Keep in mind too that many of them if they actually survived childhood with their foreskins intact may have been damaged by overzealous "cleaning" regimens that inappropriately retracted them, causing scarring/true phimosis and infections.
AH!! that's EXACTLY what i said but i didn't know if i was just making it up to sound good, so i'm glad that someone else said so too. i feel like i know more than i really do. well, i didn't tell him, i told my other friend with whom i was debating this issue with (the other guy who knows people who are intact and "hate it" or were adults when they had it done) hubby and i are going to talk about it when i get home, he promised he was going to do his own hard research on it. but i plan on bringing this same thing up with him as well.
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#17 of 49 Old 07-16-2007, 07:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
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First, I'd ask him how he knows the status of so many men.

Second, ask him to make a list of names of all these men who have these complaints. Since he knows such intimate details, he should be able to name names.

Third, have him ask all of these men why they haven't simply gone out and done it themselves.

Since men don't generally talk about their penises amongst themselves, my theory is that he probably doesn't know the status of any men or their wishes regarding circumcision. Even if he does, its probably only a handful and not enough to constitute a good sample.

I'm sure someone here will post the Vulnerability of Men article... good advice. Your husband is probably feeling insecure.
well, he has named names, and i know who he's talking about. for some reason these guys would share all kinds of intimate/sexual/personal/gross stuff with ME, as if i was interested!!: so i don't think he's lying about it, seeing as with his job you can come in contact with thousands of people. BUT i do think he may feel partial guilt in being circ'ed himself so he's kind of pushing it onto others. i have read that is a common post-traumatic response in older men.
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#18 of 49 Old 07-16-2007, 08:01 PM
 
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He might hiding behind the fact that you can't contact these guys. But, if you can and he gives you that info, Id be all over talking to them and finding out their opinions and discussing foreskin function.

"Parents are simply trustees; they do not own the bodies of their children"-Norm Cohen  Martial arts instructor intactlact.gifhomebirth.jpgnak.gif and mom to 4: DD1 (1/05) DS (7/06) DD2 (5/08) DD3 (2/11)
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#19 of 49 Old 07-16-2007, 08:02 PM
 
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Keep in mind too that these guys (if they're for real and not a "friend of a friend of a friend") were brought up in a culture that devalues foreskins. So they've been raised to think that their own bodies are gross.

Keep in mind too that many of them if they actually survived childhood with their foreskins intact may have been damaged by overzealous "cleaning" regimens that inappropriately retracted them, causing scarring/true phimosis and infections.

Ask most European and Asian and Latin American guys if they wish they were circed and you'll get that green-around-the-gills protective-crossing-of-legs response and a hearty "hell no!"

People have all sorts of negative body images about themselves because of the dominant culture and want to do crazy things to make themselves fit the norm more closely. It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with their bodies; it means something is seriously screwed up with the dominant culture that only values light skin/blue eyes/straight hair/skinny bodies/height/circed penises whatever, and tells people that don't meet this norm that they're dirty/shameful/worthless/LESS THAN.

Besides, any intact adult who is so troubled by his foreskin that he wants to be rid of it forever can go out and do that pretty easily -- it's not major surgery, pretty much any urologist would be happy to take his money, and he'll get great painkillers afterwards. So he has no (third? : ) leg to stand on.

As for a baby? His body, his right to decide for himself how it will look (and function) when he's an adult.
That pretty much sums it up. Great post.
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#20 of 49 Old 07-16-2007, 08:14 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Have you asked this guy if he is happier with the function of his penis now that part of it has been amputated? I'd be willing to bet my last dollar that he's not, even if he wouldn't admit it.
he was focused on the pain of it. he said he wished his parents did it when he was a baby so he wouldn't remember it.
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#21 of 49 Old 07-16-2007, 08:18 PM
 
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he was focused on the pain of it. he said he wished his parents did it when he was a baby so he wouldn't remember it.
What a stupid cop out. How are his parents supposed to know that he wished he didn't have a part of his penis that he was born with?

Should girls with unpierced ears complain that their parents didn't get it pierced for them when were a baby so they wouldn't remember the pain? (Even though circ is way more painful than piercing, it's the same theory)

I still don't believe that every single intact man your DH knows "hated" being intact and wished they were circ'd but even if that is the case, there are millions of intact men worldwide who are happy to be intact.
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#22 of 49 Old 07-16-2007, 08:49 PM
 
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Be sure to tell him that there are plenty of men who were circumcised as babies and hate it and wish they weren't (like my DH). Unfortunately for them, it's not as easy to restore a foreskin as it is to get a circumcision as an adult.
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#23 of 49 Old 07-16-2007, 09:03 PM
 
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what if your hubby is procirc, and the reason he is, is because ALL the guys he knows who AREN'T circ'ed (or were circ'ed as adults) hate it and wish their parents had it done when they were born?
Um so? that would pretty much be my response. Don't really care what his supposed intact friends think. Personally I don't even believe that " all the guys he knows who "aren't circ'd" hate it and wish they were.

Try again, buddy.
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#24 of 49 Old 07-16-2007, 09:07 PM
 
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Have you read the thread here entitled "Birthday"? A man circumcised as an infant feels a deep conflict on the day he was born. This is because he was circumcised on the same day. He wishes he had been left intact. Now he mourns his birthday. Even if it was done the next-day, there's _still_ the feeling of his deep sense of loss that he will have to live with _every_ day of his life.

As everyone knows, a circumcision can't be reversed, but an intact man unhappy w/ his intact status can always get circumcised as an adult. It's like a flat chested female who wants to get breast implants. You alter your body when you're an adult.
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#25 of 49 Old 07-16-2007, 09:09 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I still don't believe that every single intact man your DH knows "hated" being intact and wished they were circ'd but even if that is the case, there are millions of intact men worldwide who are happy to be intact.
word. i know how common it ISN'T in his generation, he probably only knows a handful, and just the one who got it done when he was an adult. the others who are still intact he says tell him they wish their parents had done it when they were babies because it's a pain in the ass to maintain.


i kinda think that's retarded because if you have basic hygiene habits you should be fine, right? he says they tell him that if they don't clean it after EVERY time they PEE, that it starts to smell!! wt..?!
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#26 of 49 Old 07-16-2007, 09:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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As everyone knows, a circumcision can't be reversed, but an intact man unhappy w/ his intact status can always get circumcised as an adult. It's like a flat chested female who wants to get breast implants. You alter your body when you're an adult.
i haven't read the thread yet, but i agree with this, and i brought this up. he says well flat boobs aren't hard to keep clean. he's pretty bent on the hygiene/maintenance/cleaning part of it.

i would only think it would be a problem if the person has bad hygiene habits or if they were badly taken care of when they were younger and they had scar tissue build up which would make it easier for bacteria to get in there and cause problems.

we haven't spoken about this specifically yet, i just need to build up a knowledge from many people, aside from reports on the web, yk?
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#27 of 49 Old 07-16-2007, 09:17 PM
 
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Not to mention... circumcision has the risk of infection, death, and decreased sexual function later in life. All of these very real, researched risks and common side effects of circ. are PROVEN...... whereas all the supposed "risks" of keeping a foreskin keep turning out totally bunk.

It is a cure that is desperately searching for a disease to justify the hundreds of things that can and do go wrong with the amputation of a valuable functioning body part.
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#28 of 49 Old 07-16-2007, 09:19 PM
 
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Well, flat boobs may not be "hard to clean", but what about an intact vulva/vagina? That has WAAAY more nooks and crannies than an intact penis.

I don't get what's so hard about: pull back, rinse, replace.
(Obviously I'm talking about an intact adult, with babies/kids there is no retracting, just wipe over it all. )
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#29 of 49 Old 07-16-2007, 09:20 PM
 
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i haven't read the thread yet, but i agree with this, and i brought this up. he says well flat boobs aren't hard to keep clean. he's pretty bent on the hygiene/maintenance/cleaning part of it.

i would only think it would be a problem if the person has bad hygiene habits or if they were badly taken care of when they were younger and they had scar tissue build up which would make it easier for bacteria to get in there and cause problems.

we haven't spoken about this specifically yet, i just need to build up a knowledge from many people, aside from reports on the web, yk?
ask him what he thinks about applying gauze and vaseline to his son's open wound for a few weeks? and then picking off hairs from the head? and dealing with adhesions and needing more vaseline, sometimes for years after the circumcision?


Intact penises are maintanence free until they become retractable (sometimes not til puberty!)....and then its the three Rs:

Retract
Rinse
Replace


Not difficult at all!


And FYI, the scar tissue build up is from forced retraction. A NO NO! your son won;t have scar tissue build up because you won't be retracting him! (well, you shouldn't, and since you are here I trust you wont!)

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#30 of 49 Old 07-16-2007, 09:22 PM
 
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The same thing could be said about female infant circumcision to keep a female clean, and its' illegal to cut anything off of them. In fact, there was a thread here from a mother who said SHE gets more smegma in her vagina, than her intact son, who has none. Since the foreskin is fused to the glans the first 3 or 4 years of life (note: there's noooooo set magical age it's suppose to become retractable) and when it does become retractable, the only "care" involved would be retracting it, swishing it w/ water (or under water, like I do) and pushing the foreskin back over the glans to protect it. It takes like, 5 seconds. AND your son will have protection and maximum sexual sensitivity he was meant to have.
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