UGH...I can't convince DH!!!!! - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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#31 of 58 Old 08-02-2007, 02:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by astar326 View Post
After what felt like months of arguing, I convinced dh to leave any future sons intact!

I couldn't have done this without all of your support, encouragement and education. I am so grateful to this group of women for all that you have offered to me .

Of course there are stipulations: 1. dh insists that if ds has any "problems" (i.e. infections, etc.) he will be circ'd after 1yo (with proper anesthesia - I think the unnecessary pain part won him over). 2. if later in life the child elects to have the procedure done, we'll foot the bill.

Just wanted to update everyone on my success!
Thanks again I am eternally grateful,
~Angel
AHEM! Some men here also offered you some tips and suggestions!

Congrats on convincing your DH, I'd make sure that he doesn't get retracted though so that "infections" don't come up.
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#32 of 58 Old 08-02-2007, 02:29 PM
 
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Great news astar!
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#33 of 58 Old 08-02-2007, 02:35 PM
 
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Great news, astar!

Whatever you do, though don't agree to circumcision for infections that can be treated conservatively, i.e. with antibiotics or yeast medications. I'm sure you've had a UTI and/or a vaginal infection and/or a yeast infection at least once in your life, and I'm equally sure that no one suggested cutting any parts off you, whether under anesthesia or otherwise. Cutting off the foreskin because of an easily-managed minor infection would be like cutting off the toes because of athlete's foot.

Also, many intact boys will go through one or more incidents of separation trauma, where the normal and natural foreskin/glans separation process may cause some temporary redness, discomfort, and even swelling. It may look scary, it may even be painful for your son, but again it is no reason to circumcise.

You're going to have to stand your ground, because the odds are good that some minor penis problem will come up and your dh will start trying to hold you to your promise to circumcise.

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#34 of 58 Old 08-02-2007, 03:11 PM
 
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I am glad you got dh to listen but to treat a infection takes abx not cutting off body parts. My ds had a bacterial infection not that long ago because he had dirty hands and his poor penis looked awful but with oral and topical abx he was fine in 12 hours and within 24 you would never have known anything was wrong.

The only true reasons to circ are cancer, gangrene, frostbite & irriparable damage. Everything else like infections or yeast or a tight foreskin can be treated without cutting it off.

 
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#35 of 58 Old 08-02-2007, 03:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MarcyC View Post
DH DOES LISTEN to my arguments, but he said since I'm not a man I cannot possibly understand the depth of this....he feels really strongly about having boy #2 circ'd. He said if we don't he'll regret it for the rest of his life. He's right - I'm not a man and I don't understand...I just don't feel right doing this to my son.
My husband says the same thing..that I will never understand because i am not a man and of course i shoot back that he is right that i am not a man, but i am a woman and i can tell you that i would never forgive my parents if they had my clitoris removed because it was the social norm. I guess i just don't understand how it is any diff. It is not the american norm to remove girls reproductive organs, so why is it ok to remove a males??

And i even argue that i can't possibly know what our little boy would want us to do, so why not let him make the decision when he is old enough to understand the situation and make decisions for himself and DH says that he will have suffered too much humiliation and loss of self respect by that stage in the game:

I don't know what to do when you both feel so strongly about the decision and neither will budge. I feel for ya and i hope that you both can come to terms with whatever decision you make.

GOOD LUCK and I will keep my fingers crossed for your and your little one:-)
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#36 of 58 Old 08-02-2007, 05:24 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MarcyC View Post
DH DOES LISTEN to my arguments, but he said since I'm not a man I cannot possibly understand the depth of this....he feels really strongly about having boy #2 circ'd. He said if we don't he'll regret it for the rest of his life. He's right - I'm not a man and I don't understand...I just don't feel right doing this to my son.

How do I convince DH on this issue?
With all due respect, how can your dh understand the depth of this issue since he has never experienced what it is like to have a foreskin? Even in regards to your FIL. who wishes he was circed, how can he understand this issue fully since he has never experienced being circumcised? How does he know things would be that much *better* on the cut side of the fence.

All of the men in this organization are unhappy about others (and their own) decisions to have them circumcised.
http://www.norm.org/

It is a heck of a lot harder to put it back on(impossible in fact) than to take it off. Best to leave that decision up to the man who will have to live with the concequences since then the only one he will have to blame is himself when he is not happy with his status.

Good luck to you,
Tara

Tara Momma to Callum and Gavin
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#37 of 58 Old 08-02-2007, 05:53 PM
 
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Originally Posted by astar326 View Post
After what felt like months of arguing, I convinced dh to leave any future sons intact!

I couldn't have done this without all of your support, encouragement and education. I am so grateful to this group of women for all that you have offered to me .

Of course there are stipulations: 1. dh insists that if ds has any "problems" (i.e. infections, etc.) he will be circ'd after 1yo (with proper anesthesia - I think the unnecessary pain part won him over). 2. if later in life the child elects to have the procedure done, we'll foot the bill.

Just wanted to update everyone on my success!
Thanks again I am eternally grateful,
~Angel
: Congratulations astar! : So glad we could help.
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#38 of 58 Old 08-03-2007, 11:11 PM
 
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AHEM! Some men here also offered you some tips and suggestions!
oops, so sorry Papai! forgive my gender ignorance.

Angel (30), dh (31) (kd to H. 4/25/07 & K. 5/23/11), Vladimir 10/17/09 & Nikolai 7/6/11

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#39 of 58 Old 08-04-2007, 12:24 AM
 
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yay! wonderful news

love and peace.

mama to two girls and due in November!
: Circumcision can never be undone :
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#40 of 58 Old 08-04-2007, 03:02 PM
 
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Like Quirky & MCatLvrMom2A&X so graciously brought up it will never be my intent to opt for surgery at the first infection. This was just a way to come to an agreement with dh on this issue. I don't mean to be deceitful, but I just needed to get over this first hurdle. It is my goal to continue to educate dh and any future children so circ. won't even be a thought.

MCatLvrMom2A&X thanks for the advice with your own ds' experience.

Thanks to Quirky, Papai, & Yulia_R for the heads up.
~Angel

Angel (30), dh (31) (kd to H. 4/25/07 & K. 5/23/11), Vladimir 10/17/09 & Nikolai 7/6/11

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#41 of 58 Old 08-04-2007, 03:16 PM
 
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I'd just tell him that I'm not saying that our son can't be circ'd just that he won't have it done as a child. When he makes his own choice at a proper age of consent, we'll do as he wishes. That was the winning argument for me and my dh. You can't really change a circ. But, an intact male can make his own choice.
Dh listened to my arguments, and this is what convinced him, too. He did agree that it should be our son's choice when he is old enough. Now we are at the point that, while it's still not as big a deal to him as me, he's no longer pro-circ.

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#42 of 58 Old 08-04-2007, 03:46 PM
 
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but he said since I'm not a man I cannot possibly understand the depth of this....he feels really strongly about having boy #2 circ'd. He said if we don't he'll regret it for the rest of his life.
It just so happens that I am a man, and I say that's complete and utter BS. Just FYI.

Don't let him pull stuff like that on you. Or at least don't let it phase you. You need to protect your son.
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#43 of 58 Old 08-05-2007, 07:56 AM
 
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Good for you! Now stick to your guns. And be prepared for when your son gets red around the tip of his penis. Or even worse has a case of cystitis. That happened in with our first son, and of course then this happens, people start worrying that it is the result of not being circumsized, so the arguments can begin again.

But maintain you very correct position of waiting. He will weather any difficulties fine w/o circ.

Regards
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#44 of 58 Old 08-05-2007, 08:33 AM
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2. if later in life the child elects to have the procedure done, we'll foot the bill.
Agree to that and inform him that if you have a daughter who has small breasts you will also pay for implants if she wants them. Or if she feels her labia/clitoral hood are too large you'll foot that bill too. Because what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

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#45 of 58 Old 08-05-2007, 03:22 PM
 
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Nicely stated, Fi!

Angel (30), dh (31) (kd to H. 4/25/07 & K. 5/23/11), Vladimir 10/17/09 & Nikolai 7/6/11

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#46 of 58 Old 08-05-2007, 09:08 PM
 
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any news from the OP?

~helen~ mama to 5 yo twins jonas and micah and my 2 yo baby boy eli
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#47 of 58 Old 08-05-2007, 09:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kristinc View Post
My husband says the same thing..that I will never understand because i am not a man and of course i shoot back that he is right that i am not a man, but i am a woman and i can tell you that i would never forgive my parents if they had my clitoris removed because it was the social norm. I guess i just don't understand how it is any diff. It is not the american norm to remove girls reproductive organs, so why is it ok to remove a males??

And i even argue that i can't possibly know what our little boy would want us to do, so why not let him make the decision when he is old enough to understand the situation and make decisions for himself and DH says that he will have suffered too much humiliation and loss of self respect by that stage in the game:

I don't know what to do when you both feel so strongly about the decision and neither will budge. I feel for ya and i hope that you both can come to terms with whatever decision you make.

GOOD LUCK and I will keep my fingers crossed for your and your little one:-)

Hi Kristin -- I think what you do when you can't agree is nothing -- you leave your son intact. I actually think if people would not rush into circ and not feel such pressure to decide right away, you could take your son home and get used to the fact he has a foreskin and it's really not that big of a deal. I think a lot of people who aren't familiar with foreskins get easily intimidated and freaked out by not knowing what to do with one, how to take care of the intact penis, etc. etc. etc. and that worry and fear leads them to circ. It's unfortunate. I wish you a lot of courage to take a leap of faith and try something new (intactness). I also think men can get wrapped up in tradition, but I also think they can and do adapt.

ETA: I wonder if you could negotiate with your husband to leave your son intact for 6 months or so.... even as a trial period.... I tend to think you both would get comfortable with your son's whole body and not want circ after having a chance to experience your son as intact. Since it's not a medically usefull thing (on the contrary, it's harmful) -- No need to rush!!!
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#48 of 58 Old 08-06-2007, 09:11 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks all! Sorry it's been busy around here. I'm supposed to be on total left-side-only bedrest, so needless to say, sitting upright at the computer isn't high on the priority list.

Most of this info I already knew just from my own research, and most of it I had already talked with DH about. He seems open to my arguments and is willing to listen with an all out blow up fight, but he still isn't swayed, kwim?

I'll keep trying. I'm trying to do this with gentle persuasion. One problem is that we are pre-registered at the hospital. Well, I was on a heavy dose of stadol & phenergan when we were pre-registering (long story...I've been admitted 3 times for complications with high blood pressure and pre-eclampsia). Anyway, I'm on stadol & phenergan and was pretty out of it so the nurse is sitting there on the computer going through our pre-registration stuff and she says, "are you going to have him circumcised?" and DH immediately says, "YES!!". Well, I wasn't in an shape to argue right there at all so I need to try to stay alert the next time we're at the hospital so I can talk to the nurse myself.
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#49 of 58 Old 08-06-2007, 10:22 AM
 
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Heres what I would do in your position....dont let your DH up in the delivery or recovery room....at all until you leave the hospital. Or inform your DH that if your son gets circ'd (because of your dh being sneaky) you will never cook for him, clean for him or have sex with him AGAIN. Its his choice, he can do it your way or the miserable way. In fact I think I would get divorced if my DH instisted on sexually mutilating my kids KWIM? Would I really want to be married to a man who didnt respect me or my son? Please, just do not let him go in the hospital with u
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#50 of 58 Old 08-06-2007, 10:27 AM
 
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Originally Posted by MarcyC
Thanks all! Sorry it's been busy around here. I'm supposed to be on total left-side-only bedrest, so needless to say, sitting upright at the computer isn't high on the priority list.

Most of this info I already knew just from my own research, and most of it I had already talked with DH about. He seems open to my arguments and is willing to listen with an all out blow up fight, but he still isn't swayed, kwim?

I'll keep trying. I'm trying to do this with gentle persuasion. One problem is that we are pre-registered at the hospital. Well, I was on a heavy dose of stadol & phenergan when we were pre-registering (long story...I've been admitted 3 times for complications with high blood pressure and pre-eclampsia). Anyway, I'm on stadol & phenergan and was pretty out of it so the nurse is sitting there on the computer going through our pre-registration stuff and she says, "are you going to have him circumcised?" and DH immediately says, "YES!!". Well, I wasn't in an shape to argue right there at all so I need to try to stay alert the next time we're at the hospital so I can talk to the nurse myself.
I'm so sorry you're having so many problems with this pregnancy.

You need to write a letter and send it to the hospital -- and call them -- stating that you do NOT consent to circumcision. If you don't, and you go into labor or have those yucky mind-altering drugs, your son WILL be circumcised because a) that's what they have in the file for him, they have your consent and b) your dh will consent, whether you want him to or not.

The fact that he piped up and stated that your son WOULD be circumcised without looking to you to talk to you about it is NOT a good sign IMO. If you have a very traumatic birth or a c-section and you're out of it after the birth, my guess is that he will go ahead with a circumcision.

I think the time has come to stand up (figuratively speaking) and put your foot down to your dh. Gentle persuasion isn't working and he's taking the position that it's YOUR job to persuade HIM to refrain from cutting part of your son's penis off. You need to let him know that this is not going to happen except over your dead body, or you will have a circed son.

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#51 of 58 Old 08-06-2007, 06:46 PM
 
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I'm so sorry you're having so many problems with this pregnancy.

You need to write a letter and send it to the hospital -- and call them -- stating that you do NOT consent to circumcision. If you don't, and you go into labor or have those yucky mind-altering drugs, your son WILL be circumcised because a) that's what they have in the file for him, they have your consent and b) your dh will consent, whether you want him to or not.

The fact that he piped up and stated that your son WOULD be circumcised without looking to you to talk to you about it is NOT a good sign IMO. If you have a very traumatic birth or a c-section and you're out of it after the birth, my guess is that he will go ahead with a circumcision.

I think the time has come to stand up (figuratively speaking) and put your foot down to your dh. Gentle persuasion isn't working and he's taking the position that it's YOUR job to persuade HIM to refrain from cutting part of your son's penis off. You need to let him know that this is not going to happen except over your dead body, or you will have a circed son.
:
Marcy, please be careful. We had a mom on this board two years ago whose not so dh took the baby and had him circ'ed behind his wife's back. I don't want this happening to you.
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#52 of 58 Old 08-06-2007, 10:29 PM
 
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Good luck Marcy...sorry to hear about your difficult pregnancy too. My DH and I had this same fight throughout my recent pregnancy. I cried and cried and he spouted off many of the same "reasons" like he is the man and should decide b/c he doesn't miss his foreskin etc. Well, I told him "fine, we'll do it and if he (DS) hates us for it, it's on you!" Well, this kept things quiet for a while. BUt guess what? Once I was in the hospital and saw my son I knew for sure I could not have him circ'ed. I just cried some more and when DH saw how I felt so strongly against circ he agreed. Of course, he wasn't there with me the morning of discharge when the decision was made, so it would have been all up to me anyway! But knowing he "came around" helped! Although I think he still wishes our son was circ'ed I am so happy I got to make the (right) decision and hope you can too!
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#53 of 58 Old 08-06-2007, 11:16 PM
 
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Heres what I would do in your position....dont let your DH up in the delivery or recovery room....at all until you leave the hospital. Or inform your DH that if your son gets circ'd (because of your dh being sneaky) you will never cook for him, clean for him or have sex with him AGAIN. Its his choice, he can do it your way or the miserable way. In fact I think I would get divorced if my DH instisted on sexually mutilating my kids KWIM? Would I really want to be married to a man who didnt respect me or my son? Please, just do not let him go in the hospital with u
I think it's totally unrealistic to disallow the father of the baby any visits. I understand the concern that the DH will consent to a circ against the mother's wishes, but there has to be a better way to prevent circ than separating the family.

OP, let your OB know you are *not* circing, and I'd put something in writing on file with the hospital and also put a sign on your son's bassinet. Perhaps in addition to your husband, you could get a family member who can speak for your wishes (or present your written signed objections to circ) to come with you

So sorry to hear of the bed rest -- hope you feel well and take good care of yourself.
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#54 of 58 Old 08-07-2007, 01:46 AM
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Marcy, please be careful. We had a mom on this board two years ago whose not so dh took the baby and had him circ'ed behind his wife's back. I don't want this happening to you.
did she divorce him after that?
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#55 of 58 Old 08-07-2007, 09:45 AM
 
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did she divorce him after that?
Amazingly enough, no. She managed to change his mind. Their second son is intact, and the husband started restoring.

She had more patience than me. I would have kicked him to the curb!
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#56 of 58 Old 08-07-2007, 10:36 AM - Thread Starter
 
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You know, I'm just going to keep trying *gently*. Being too harsh is just going to put him on the defensive. I could never ban him from the delivery room or post-partum room. I wouldn't do that. I'm just going to keep trying gently and pray for the right outcome. I'm leaving all of this in God's hands now.
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#57 of 58 Old 08-07-2007, 10:45 AM
 
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You know, I'm just going to keep trying *gently*. Being too harsh is just going to put him on the defensive. I could never ban him from the delivery room or post-partum room. I wouldn't do that. I'm just going to keep trying gently and pray for the right outcome. I'm leaving all of this in God's hands now.
I think it would be gentle to call the hospital and tell them you want it noted that you no longer consent to circumcision. You can tell them/DH that you just want to talk about it more. While I know many people believe in the power of prayer; if the hospital thinks you already consent to circumcision, it may happen without your knowledge. Protect your son from that mistake by calling them now.


When it comes to this subject, there is nothing more gentle than NOT circumcising.

"Parents are simply trustees; they do not own the bodies of their children"-Norm Cohen  Martial arts instructor intactlact.gifhomebirth.jpgnak.gif and mom to 4: DD1 (1/05) DS (7/06) DD2 (5/08) DD3 (2/11)
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#58 of 58 Old 08-07-2007, 12:57 PM
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While I know many people believe in the power of prayer; if the hospital thinks you already consent to circumcision, it may happen without your knowledge. Protect your son from that mistake by calling them now.


When it comes to this subject, there is nothing more gentle than NOT circumcising.


I realize that this is not a place for jokes, but this one just fit here too well, so I couldn't resist posting it:

A poor guy was praying every day for some money for his family. Nothing happened and he ended up dieing very poor. When he asked God “Why he didn’t help him with some money”, God said “How could I, you never even bothered to buy a lottery ticket!”.

I guess it says it all…Protect your perfect whole defenseless baby, mama!
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