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#61 of 171 Old 08-16-2007, 11:06 AM
 
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Dear TryingmyBest,
I'm sorry you have been so stressed out about this. I would like to add a word of encouragement: Once you simply make the decision that you will not force circumcision on your son, you feel an overwhelming wave of relief and you never look back. Yes, it is hard to go through that initial process where you are questioning what you always "knew" to be true, and where you're facing going against the grain and challenging previous decisions. It's scary. But it is the right thing to do. It is the moral, ethical, responsible, loving thing to do. And once you choose to protect your baby, you never regret that.

I am a middle-class white southerner living in the Midwest, the region with the highest rate of circumcision in the counrty. I have a 6 year-old son who was circumcised because I didn't know any better, and a 4 year-old who is intact because I had learned by then that it wasn't necessary for his health. Now that I have seen with my own eyes that intact is perfectly normal and natural, and that intact boys enjoy their foreskins, I could never, ever support anyone's decision to force routine circumcision on his or her child.

The culture is changing. When we lived in a university town in a Midwestern city, many, many sons of our educated professional neighbors were intact. I also have friends in small rural towns who have left their boys whole. This is a mainstream movement away from circumcision, not a fluke caused by immigrants.

The only reason any boy would be unhappy with his normal genitals is if he had been told that there was something to be ashamed of. Because you already have two circumcised sons, you will probably be the first one to field any questions abuot the difference. This is very important. You will have the opportunity early on to solidify his self-image. You say very simply, "All boys are born like you. People used to think it was a good idea to cut that part off of baby boys, but now we know it's better to leave it alone. It really hurts the baby and we wish we hadn't hurt your brothers, but we truly believed it was what was best for them. People belive some really silly things sometimes, huh?"

Call and cancel that appointment, if you still have it scheduled. Right now. You will feel a milllion times better. Circumcision has absolutely no place in attachment parenting. In order to hand over your child to be circumcised, you have to shut down your connection. It's the only way you could do it. You have already demonstrated that your bond was strong--you were bold enough to rescue your baby from the circumstraint. You listened to your instincts and put your baby's needs first. Keep it up, mama. Your baby is lucky to have you!
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#62 of 171 Old 08-16-2007, 11:06 AM
 
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Blu Razzberri,

I cannot say that everyone else in my position would. You have to be very careful to watch your words and tone even in text if you are going to truly get through to anyone. As I said, I think that you are coming from a passionate place with little patience for people that see differently or not as clearly as you on these issues.
OT...but you are right...I use to post a lot in this forum, but I found that when a person who was new was asking for help, some people were very harsh and abrasive with them...(nothing I wanted to be part of). Anyway, I wanted to say thanks for staying and listening to everyone else, even though some of the posts are leaving you feeling attacked.
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#63 of 171 Old 08-16-2007, 11:24 AM
 
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I was actually hoping to find tons of stories of very well adjusted uncircumcised men running about. Saying...WE LOVE OUR PENISES!!! That seemed like the "right thing" that I was looking for...rather than what you might assume traditionally. Make sense?
Well, if that's what you're looking for ...the ones I've known, um, intimately were all VERY happy with their intact penises, and so was I!!! If there was only ONE THING I could change about my husband it would be his circumcision as an infant. Sex with a circ'd penis versus sex with an intact penis to me is like driving a minivan versus a Ferrari. No contest. However, they're still cars, they can go fast and get you where you need to go and they're fun no matter what. But every intact man I've known personally has been just fine with it.

milk donation : mother to Ryan (6), AJ (5), Nate (2), Maia (1) all born at home, I have a kid-friendly food & bento blog, : :
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#64 of 171 Old 08-16-2007, 11:29 AM
 
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OP, I think you know already what the right decision is. You know it's wrong to circumcise but we do lots of things that are "wrong" for reasons that seem right, don't we?

Postpartum is such an interesting time, I think. Those initial hormones that encouraged you to protect your son NO MATTER WHAT THE COST are starting to ebb. You are second thinking about the things you chose for your birth and immediate postpartum. It's normal. But, I stand by the idea that when we let our "monkey" part help up with decisions, often we make the best decisions.

We're mama bears who have been placed in a dress, given a home and told to be good. For a while, that mama bear was active, protecting her son. Don't let that stop now. You can still protect him, and I believe that you will. I know that the person you truly are is the one who pulled her son off that circumstraint.

Try to not worry about what your son will say. Your son will be proud of you, especially if you tell him to what lengths you went to to protect him. It will be hard, for sure, to speak to him about what you allowed to happen to your other sons. That's the thing you'll be apologizing for, trust me. Your intact son is peachy. Your circed sons are the ones who will wonder what you were thinking.

I know how hard that is to face, because I've done it. My cut son is 11. As I watch his body grow, it doesn't get easier thinking about what his prepuce would have been doing for him now.

A couple of months ago, I gave an interview for anticircumcision for our local paper. When I asked my circed son if he minded he said, "No, mama. Especially if it will stop another mama from doing that to her son." I'm crying now as I write this.

Listen to that mama bear who protected her son. She's the smart one.
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#65 of 171 Old 08-16-2007, 11:45 AM
 
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Just a couple of thoughts for you to consider, coming from a slightly different angle:

As someone practicing attachment parenting, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, not-CIO, gentle discipline I assume, etc. - why are you so worried about whether your son's penis will conform to the current norms of our society?

It certainly isn't the accepted norm to co-sleep -- in fact, the (stupid) AAP now recommends against it.

It certainly isn't the norm to breastfeed, at least for very long, esp. in the South where rates of breastfeeding are pretty low to begin with compared to the nation as a whole and finding moms who are still breastfeeding at 6 months isn't all that easy.

It certainly isn't the norm not to practice sleep training and CIO -- look at all the parenting gurus and shows on TV that tout "we got the baby to sleep through the night at 2 months!"

And it certainly isn't the norm to practice gentle discipline, not to humiliate your child physically or verbally. All it takes for me is a visit to our local big box stores on any weekend to see plenty of parents who feel no compunction whatsoever about hitting their children in public -- and NO ONE says a word because it's OK in our society to smack your children.

You are already going against the accepted mainstream thought of generations in this country to do things like breastfeed, co-sleep, attachment parent, etc.

So why is it so hard to think about going against the mainstream and leaving your son whole? It doesn't take much looking around to realize that the mainstream doesn't have a whole lot to recommend it, which is why more and more parents are saying screw the mainstream, I'm going to breastfeed, have my baby naturally, co-sleep, babywear, practice gentle discipline, etc. because it's better for my baby to be treated this way.

And the same point phrased slightly differently -- at some point your sons are going to come to you and want your help or permission or money to do something really stupid because everyone else is doing it. Or you're going to find them doing something really stupid because everyone else is doing it. Smoke? Jump off the tall rocks in the local quarry into really shallow water? See an extremely violent R-rated movie at age 12? Get a tattoo at age 14? Whatever it is, you're going to pull out the time-honored cliche like all the rest of us will -- "If your friends were all going to jump off a bridge, would you do it too?"

Don't be a lemming and jump off the bridge of circumcision just because "everyone else" has done it or is doing it. It's the same thing. "Just because everyone else is doing it" is never a good enough reason, especially not for something as damaging and harmful as circumcision.

Come visit the NEW QuirkyBaby website -- earn QB Bucks rewards points for purchases, reviews, referrals, and more! Free US shipping on great brands of baby slings and carriers and FREE BabyLegs or babywearing mirror on orders of $100+. Take the QB Quiz for personalized advice!

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#66 of 171 Old 08-16-2007, 12:36 PM
 
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I don't know if there is such a site of intact men professing their love for their foreskins, but here is one that is comprised of men who lothe their circumcisions:
http://www.norm.org

Remember, it is a lot harder to "put it back"(impossible really) than it is to cut it off.

Do your boy a favour, spare him what these men have endured and leave it up to him

Good luck to you!
Tara

Tara Momma to Callum and Gavin
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#67 of 171 Old 08-16-2007, 01:12 PM
 
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The last day that my insurance will pay for the procedure is at the end of this week, so we have to make a decision.

...Please help me here....the clock is ticking.
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...the procedure was scheduled for Friday..not today.
So, tomorrow's Friday. This thread has been very active and people have shared a lot of thoughts, feedback, resources, and advice. I'm sure all of us are wondering what you've decided...

Jen
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#68 of 171 Old 08-16-2007, 01:24 PM
 
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Are you SERIOUS@?!?!?!?!??! I knew that Circlist was like this....!!! I didn't realize that this site was the same way. How do you know? I saw some nasty posts about "experiences" on circlist that made me want to vomit.
More of the info used to be available, but if you check the whois info on it you find a guy that is well known as a fetishist.

-Angela
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#69 of 171 Old 08-16-2007, 01:27 PM
 
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Blu Razzberri,

I can understand your frustration and your anger. You are in a position of power here on this site because you can impact people's decisions. I can feel your frustration when you do not see this as an immediate change...I also can tell that this is born of a passion and a deep care. I see this.

I cannot say that everyone else in my position would. You have to be very careful to watch your words and tone even in text if you are going to truly get through to anyone. As I said, I think that you are coming from a passionate place with little patience for people that see differently or not as clearly as you on these issues. I don't blame you for getting irate. I haven't disagreed with you yet, rather I have put points for discussion up and they are being disected and replied to in pieces. I explained that I am very confused on a number of items earlier...and I appreciate the information you are providing..I just think you should be careful to not saying things like "I am more than a little mad at you right now..." I don't think that you should take our conversation here as a personal assault against you...it is not Matter of a fact...I knew what Motheringdotcom was about BEFORE I ever posted my message. I KNEW that I would be in a community of loving mothers that would more than likely help to one by one confront fears in a setting that would help to dissolve them and create a more welcoming feeling to a concept that is foreign to most in the US....all of my family was circed. All of my family is for my son being circed. Putting someone in that situation on an island is precisely the way to drive your point home....but not the way you want.

As I said, I can see where you are coming from and I know your frustration is out of your desire to protect the babies...I don't blame you! But, if I was anyone else....I would be hurt. I would feel like I came for support and in the process I pissed you off by having rational (in my mind) concerns that you quickly dismissed as irrational...and further would have felt that I was in a territory of extremist that were not open to love..only the mission to which they were assigned. Does that make sense? I am not looking for you to "sell" me anything...but I counsel individuals in other areas of mother CONSTANTLY and this is not how I do it.

I know you care. You wouldn't get so upset if you didn't and I hope that these comments are viewed as constructive rather than insulting.
I understand where you're coming from, I do.

BUT take a step back for a minute. How would you feel if someone were discussing having their baby girl "circumcised" as calmly as you're discussing it.

Or having their baby's ears removed because they didn't like ears on babies.

Wouldn't you be horrified?

That's what circumcision sounds like to people that know better.

-Angela
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#70 of 171 Old 08-16-2007, 01:43 PM
 
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I don't have much time, but I did skim the thread pretty thoroughly.

TryingMyBest,

There are two things I'd like to comment on... you ask for stories from men who love being intact and thank their mothers for making that decision. Unfortunately in this circ-happy society, what you'll mostly get is stories from people who hate being circ'ed and are unhappy with their parents for taking the decision from them.

Like my dh who has massive problems with sex due to his circ. Like all the women who feel sore and pounded on after sex with a circ'ed partner who needs inordinate amounts of stimulation to achieve orgasm. Like all the men attempting to restore some semblance of a foreskin to regain the sensitivity that they've lost. Anybody have the link to that touching blog from the very angry young man?? I lost all my bookmarks in an upgrade recently.

The other thing that I wanted to mention is that there are a number of women who have no idea if their partners are circ'ed or not (yes, you read that right). Intact and cut penises look very similar when erect. Again, there's a good link to some pics that I'm hoping someone will jump in with.

I congratulate you for taking the time to research all of this. Honestly, it didn't take any research for me to know that ripping, crushing or cutting parts off of my child wasn't something I wanted to do, so I've never felt what you're feeling. I'm sorry that it's hard for you to go through this, but I think it's better you than your baby, to tell the truth.

And one last thing that's bothering me a little... what's up with everybody talking about "white" percentages? Confused....
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#71 of 171 Old 08-16-2007, 01:46 PM
 
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Today is Friday.

DON'T GO TO THAT APPOINTMENT!!!!!!!!!!!
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#72 of 171 Old 08-16-2007, 01:46 PM
 
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Re: paying for circumcision if he wants it later.

When my then-15-yr-old son told me he wanted to get circumcised a number of years ago (he's 21 now and still intact), one of the things I told him was that when he was 18 and able to sign for himself he could get it done, and furthermore that he could pay for it himself. I don't feel that cosmetic surgery is one of the things I am obligated as a parent to provide him.

Don't even think about "how we're going to pay for him to get circumcised later"! This will probably never come up, and you don't owe it to him. You're just setting yourself up for not fully accepting his intact penis as a normal, healthy, wonderful thing - always looking over your shoulder thinking a decision to leave his body as made by God/Nature is going to come back to haunt you. This is craziness. Just accept him and value him whole the way he came.

Gillian
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#73 of 171 Old 08-16-2007, 02:27 PM
 
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IAnd one last thing that's bothering me a little... what's up with everybody talking about "white" percentages? Confused....

The OP mentioned it in her first post, and I responded to her concern because it was apparently important to her. One thing you have to understand is that circumcision has often been made into a class issue. Several decades ago, the foreskin carried the stigma of being a "hick" (i.e. homebirthed). When states started withdrawing public funding for it, there was the worry that the foreskin would be a mark of being uninsured and poor. Now, circ advocates are blaming the dramatic drop in circ rates on Hispanic and Asian immigrants (which is frankly ridiculous, given the statistics. We'd have to have a lot more Hispanic and Asian immigrants than we do to account for the drop). Those who want to keep circumcision popular are trying desperately to convince people that "mainstream"/middle-class/white parents are still circ'ing just as often as ever, and that only people of color are rejecting it. But that's not true. Yes, it's odd that people might take such a thing into consideration, but at this point, the immediate concern is saving this baby from forced genital cutting.
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#74 of 171 Old 08-16-2007, 02:40 PM
 
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Also, OP: Whereas, in my progressive, urban, university neighborhood, intact was the norm (even in the Midwest!), I did have family members and friends from more conservative and/or rural backgrounds who weren't so sure about not circ'ing. They never said anything negative to me, just wanted to know why. If you gently educate people without blaming them for not knowing, you'd be surprised how accepting they can be.

When my first baby (circ'ed) was a baby, I kept another baby whose parents were both doctors and who was intact. When I saw that their baby was intact, I felt sad that I had not known better and I wished I had protected my own baby. I can see how some parents might try to justify their decision by talking up the "benefits" or the "social acceptability" of circ, because it really does make you feel less as a mother to see someone else who had the intelligence and courage to say no to circumcision, when you yourself essentially let your own child be sexually abused. It hurts. You wish you weren't the one whose ignorance was forever carved into the flesh of her child. If everyone else is doing it, you don't have to look like the bad one. So, be prepared for the possibility of someone denigrating your choie, but know that they probably are feeling insecure on the inside.
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#75 of 171 Old 08-16-2007, 02:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
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The OP mentioned it in her first post, and I responded to her concern because it was apparently important to her. One thing you have to understand is that circumcision has often been made into a class issue. Several decades ago, the foreskin carried the stigma of being a "hick" (i.e. homebirthed). When states started withdrawing public funding for it, there was the worry that the foreskin would be a mark of being uninsured and poor. Now, circ advocates are blaming the dramatic drop in circ rates on Hispanic and Asian immigrants (which is frankly ridiculous, given the statistics. We'd have to have a lot more Hispanic and Asian immigrants than we do to account for the drop). Those who want to keep circumcision popular are trying desperately to convince people that "mainstream"/middle-class/white parents are still circ'ing just as often as ever, and that only people of color are rejecting it. But that's not true. Yes, it's odd that people might take such a thing into consideration, but at this point, the immediate concern is saving this baby from forced genital cutting.
You are EXACTLY right. This is precisely why I was mentioning white rates. I was trying to get an assessment of his peers...as we are while middle classers. I was also concerned that with the possibility of a negative stigma that the "class" thing would come up...which is why I mentioned it. I have no issue with any other race...just wanted a subjective piece of information. Thank you for posting this response.
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#76 of 171 Old 08-16-2007, 02:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Glongley,

You make a good point. I guess offering to cover it etc was my way of "making it up to him" if he totally resented my decision.

On a side note, do you mind PMing me or responding with some of the reasons why your son did want to be circed? It's odd most families with intact son's...half are happy about it...and half go through a phase they are ready to be circed. Probably normal.
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#77 of 171 Old 08-16-2007, 02:52 PM
 
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TryingMyBest,

I posted on the first page but you might have overlooked it.

I'm US-born and I'm intact. I never had any medical issues because of it, and socially it was a non-issue. Out of my four close friends in high school, two (including myself) were intact and two weren't. It was never an issue. We didn't have penis comparing contests. And we all had no difficulties attracting the opposite sex (well, one of my circ'd friends turned out to be gay but still.... )

Do your son a favor, and leave him whole. If at 18 years old he wants to have it done, he can do it.
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#78 of 171 Old 08-16-2007, 02:52 PM
 
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PLEASE PLEASE DON'T DO THIS TO YOUR DS!!!!!!!!!!!

Can't you see, THIS DEADLINE they've given you IS A SCAM!!!!

The Doctor won't get paid if this isn't done in the newborn period. DON'T LET THEM RIP YOU OFF by letting them literally RIPP OFF YOUR DS'S GENITALS!!! THEY WILL SKIN HIM ALIVE!!! and for what?!! TO EARN A FEW BUCKS!! DON'T SELL YOUR DS LIKE THAT!!!

Please, what ever you do DON'T GO TO THAT APPOINTMENT! You know better now. YOUR SMARTER THAN THAT!!! If you go along with this even after you know not to, you will regret it for the rest of your entire life!!! From experience, the REGRET FACTOR SUCKS!!! You'll never regret leaving him as nature intended. YOU WILL NEVER REGRET LEAVING HIM INTACT!

PLEASSSSSSSSSSSSSE LEAVE YOUR DS INTACT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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#79 of 171 Old 08-16-2007, 02:57 PM
 
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You are EXACTLY right. This is precisely why I was mentioning white rates. I was trying to get an assessment of his peers...as we are while middle classers. I was also concerned that with the possibility of a negative stigma that the "class" thing would come up...which is why I mentioned it. I have no issue with any other race...just wanted a subjective piece of information. Thank you for posting this response.
I want to clarify something before writing my thoughts. Do feel your sons peers will only be "middle class whites"? Do you feel hispanics will not be amongst his peers?


(note: middle class white girl married to middle class hispanic man here )

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#80 of 171 Old 08-16-2007, 02:58 PM
 
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You are EXACTLY right. This is precisely why I was mentioning white rates. I was trying to get an assessment of his peers...as we are while middle classers. I was also concerned that with the possibility of a negative stigma that the "class" thing would come up...which is why I mentioned it. I have no issue with any other race...just wanted a subjective piece of information. Thank you for posting this response.
You're welcome, Trying.
Just a funny aside: Most white middle class people today are only a few generations removed from a poor, rural background. In my family, it was my grandparents who escaped a hand-to-mouth existence and made it to the suburbs; however, in my husband's family, it was his parents. Like, his mom was born on a dirt floor and used to have to clean squirrels and pluck chickens as a child. As a result, my husband was raised to be a lot more concerned with appearing "respectable" than I was. He'll say things to me like, "Don't let the kids run around barefoot! It's redneck!" To which I always respond, "What's really redneck is worrying about looking redneck." That always drives him crazy--it really hits a nerve. 'Cause it's true.
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#81 of 171 Old 08-16-2007, 03:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I want to clarify something before writing my thoughts. Do feel your sons peers will only be "middle class whites"? Do you feel hispanics will not be amongst his peers?


(note: middle class white girl married to middle class hispanic man here )
I am sure that diversity will be a factor. We live in a town where it is majority white. The school my son goes to is lik 89% white I believe. There is a small hispanic and a small asian community. Some black individuals..but as you can tell they are all in that 11%. This is one other reason that I asked. Also, my sister is married to a puerto rican man and my nephew and two nieces are half white and half spanish. Her husband, his father...his two brothers, and their son are all circed. It's just a frickin circ happen neighborhood. When I talked to my sisters husband about this...he was appauled that I would NOT circ DS.
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#82 of 171 Old 08-16-2007, 03:05 PM
 
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Today is Friday.
Today is THURSDAY.

<wipes forehead> Don't scare me like that.

jen
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#83 of 171 Old 08-16-2007, 03:06 PM
 
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Of course, this whole peer discussion is assuming the naked peers penis parade will be coming by frequently.




Just raise a confident boy and there will be no problems even if all these myths about naked peer pressure magically come true.

"Parents are simply trustees; they do not own the bodies of their children"-Norm Cohen  Martial arts instructor intactlact.gifhomebirth.jpgnak.gif and mom to 4: DD1 (1/05) DS (7/06) DD2 (5/08) DD3 (2/11)
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#84 of 171 Old 08-16-2007, 03:10 PM
 
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I am sure that diversity will be a factor. We live in a town where it is majority white. The school my son goes to is lik 89% white I believe. There is a small hispanic and a small asian community. Some black individuals..but as you can tell they are all in that 11%. This is one other reason that I asked. Also, my sister is married to a puerto rican man and my nephew and two nieces are half white and half spanish. Her husband, his father...his two brothers, and their son are all circed. It's just a frickin circ happen neighborhood. When I talked to my sisters husband about this...he was appauled that I would NOT circ DS.
The term "white" and "hispanic" are very controversal in the Hispanic community. Many hispanics will click off 'white' (because they are, indeed, European or with european ancestry- many of them at least). My husband can talk for hours about this. So you may think your school is only 10% 'minority', but it's usually not that cut and dry with Latinos/Hispanic/etc.


SO lets say that your circumcision rate is 90%. That means, of 10 people your son knows, 1 will be intact. At worst, he will not be alone. However ALL rates are falling, which means in 15 years when this becomes an issue the numbers will be even smaller and the culture of cutting will have died out a lot more.

But what does it matter?


confidence, confidence, confidence. "My genitals are my own."

"Parents are simply trustees; they do not own the bodies of their children"-Norm Cohen  Martial arts instructor intactlact.gifhomebirth.jpgnak.gif and mom to 4: DD1 (1/05) DS (7/06) DD2 (5/08) DD3 (2/11)
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#85 of 171 Old 08-16-2007, 03:18 PM
 
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In addition, ask yourself these questions:

Who is to say your son:

-will not move in the future?
-will not go to college elsewhere?
-will not marry an immigrant?
-will not marry a woman who is Asian, Hispanic, etc?
-will be straight? (note: circumcision is a hot button issue here)


And what about sexual function? The foreskin asks as a lubricant/keeps lubrication inside during sex- that is just one of its functions.

Cutting it off assumes that your son will not need this in his relationships (in addition to the other functions).

Skinning a boy's penis assumes so many things and takes on so many risks.



If he wants it done later, he might say "I WISH YOU DID THIS WHEN I WAS A BABY!" But, ya know what? Only someone who didnt understand would say that. I could easily say "mom, I wish you had gotten me this tatoo when I was younger so I couldnt remember the pain". Ridiculous? right?

As a man, there would be no danger of cutting off too much, no danger of death by infection, availablilty of pain control (remember, studies that say adults have more complications include 'pain' in those complications- yet they don't include it for babies-- because babies cannot voice it.)



Circumcising for "what ifs" is just wrong.

"Parents are simply trustees; they do not own the bodies of their children"-Norm Cohen  Martial arts instructor intactlact.gifhomebirth.jpgnak.gif and mom to 4: DD1 (1/05) DS (7/06) DD2 (5/08) DD3 (2/11)
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#86 of 171 Old 08-16-2007, 03:23 PM
 
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His peer group may be very different in 15 yrs. More and more educated parent's are making the decision to leave their sons intact, just like more women are breastfeeding.

And if you are looking that far into the future, how do you know he won't move to Europe/Asia or somewhere else after college?

Mama, please respect your son's body. Do not make a decision for him that can't be undone.
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#87 of 171 Old 08-16-2007, 03:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TryingMyBest View Post
Glongley,
On a side note, do you mind PMing me or responding with some of the reasons why your son did want to be circed? It's odd most families with intact son's...half are happy about it...and half go through a phase they are ready to be circed. Probably normal.
I really doubt that half of intact boys go through a phase of wanting to get circed, certainly not in countries where it is the norm to leave genitals the way they come. Maybe a little more likely in the US, where there are certain irrational social pressures that may come up because we have the cultural habit of cutting surgically altering genitals. I think the biggest factor are the kinds of messages and education a boy gets about his body from the people who matter most, his parents.

As far as my son's reasons for wanting to get circed, even though I asked him a number of times, he was always kind of vague about it. I have a feeling it was some kind of adolescent body image type angst - just like all kids go through when their bodies change and they start to get interested in girls but they still don't really know who they are yet. He gave a few flimsy excuses like, "Well, sometimes it smells [I reviewed hygiene info, and explained that all genitals have an odor]" and "Sometimes it kind of sticks to the head of the penis [Heck, mine stick together sometimes too!]" and then "Well, it doesn't really seem to have much purpose [Needless to say, I throughly corrected this misconception!]". Once I was done explaining Circ and the Foreskin 101 to him, he had a completely different take on it - and it just was no longer an issue. All it took was education.

The point is, kids go through all kinds of growing up stress and immature thinking, not just about body parts or genitals. It's the parents' job to teach and support them in appreciating their marvelous bodies, and their uniqueness, and to help them have self-esteem no matter what. No big deal. All part of growing up, all part of parenting. No need for preemptive surgery.

By the way there is a great book for pre-pubertal boys that has some very positive messages about not being circumcised. It is "What's Happening to My Body? Book for Boys" 3rd Ed I believe. By Lynda Madaras. Very helpful to intact boys and their parents.

As I noted before, my son is still intact 6 years later, and in a long-term relationship with a wonderful young woman. He is happy to be intact, and it is not an issue.

You can do this!!

Gillian
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#88 of 171 Old 08-16-2007, 04:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TryingMyBest View Post
Glongley,

You make a good point. I guess offering to cover it etc was my way of "making it up to him" if he totally resented my decision.

On a side note, do you mind PMing me or responding with some of the reasons why your son did want to be circed? It's odd most families with intact son's...half are happy about it...and half go through a phase they are ready to be circed. Probably normal.
Where are you getting this information that 50% of the intact boys in the world wish, at some point, to be circ'ed?
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#89 of 171 Old 08-16-2007, 04:06 PM
 
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Trying,

I'm grateful that my son father has a foreskin because I didn't even know it even existed until i learned of my son's father foresk so in my whole life I only seen 2 foreskins -my son and my son's father.

When I was in a family of circ family on my mom & dad side I would be watching circ episodes on t.v- and it would make me feel weirded out by that.

But glad I knew I didn't have to circ and saw that all the supposed facts were lies because M-he never smelled, Never had an infection and is too afraid of seeing a doctor as if some doctor is gonna chop off his goods.


I know I'm different from others I grew up with cleft lip and cleft palate . I'm more annoyed with my mom still trying to get me to conform with looking like the other girls- wearing the same style and I go mom this is the style I'm comfortable in and she goes well if ya want to go around looking like a sore thumb in a crowd.

I go I already been there mom when you actually tried to 'create me like a boy give me a boy hairdo, wearing flannel and spotted along with plaid outfits that I got considered to be a boy and called one.

I actually wished to be a boy before I got into highschool because I had felt my mom would love me more if I was one- M - had the opposite of me his mom 'dressed him in girl clothes - he hasn't talked to her for at least 20 yrs.

I nearly almost stop talking to my mom if she keeps this issue up I might as well stop taking her of her blame -maybe even move away because I want to be somewhere else.
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#90 of 171 Old 08-16-2007, 04:18 PM
 
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As most pp's have said, following your gut reaction is commendable. I am sure it was hard. I am ridiculed on a daily basis for my position on the topic of circumcision, but I still sleep easy at night.
Unfortunately, in our society, we (especially women) are also conditioned to ignore our intuition which was given to us for a reason.... (a good book on this topic is "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin De Becker").
Throughout the rest of your life, if you continue to follow your intuition, you will likely live a peaceful life.

As far as knowing any intact males with problems.. I know of only one...
He was 28 years old when he had his circ done, one of my good friends, and it is important to note that he was homosexual. It was the influence of his partner and other (mostly) homosexual friends that he was convinced being circ'd would make him happier. His "problem" was mental and emotional, (as you have stated you are concerned about) and he ended up doing it solely for aesthetic reasons, but certainly not medical reasons.
He was in pain for a long time (but as pp's have said...was afforded pain management by way of anesthesia during the process and pain medication for post-operative pain). After the operation he almost immediately started confiding in me and 1 other mutual friend that he regretted the decision he made. Time passed and he got used to his new member, but anytime the topic of sex came to surface (which trust me, in this crowd, was talked about ALL THE TIME ), he would always make comments about how it used to be so much better. I would think it is a safe assumption to say he probably still regrets it to this day.
The only other problem I can say I've heard from an intact man about "penis issues" in general, specifically regarding the issue of looking different, is that my brother said he and my younger brother used to have private conversations about how they both thought there was something wrong with them when they saw our father. Now if I explain that my brothers and my father are all intact males, you may wonder what I am talking about....
Well, my brother said he used to see my Dad in the nude and wonder why he and my younger brother didn't have HAIR in their groin area!!!
My brothers are the only intact males within their circles of friends, and they had always seen circ'd penises growing up. My brother said he did notice a difference, but it never bothered him that his looked different than a circ'd penis. Strangely enough it was the fact that being pre-pubescent and comparing to an adult males "hairy" parts is what freaked him out!

It is all a matter of educating your son on anatomy.

The idea of keeping your son intact may be causing you distress now, but I promise you... once the last day passes that your insurance will no longer pay for it, and you decide not to circ him, you will feel a wave of relief that this questioning is over. You will feel strong and proud that you were able to save one of your sons (and you will be much less burdened by lengthy and painful diaper changes...etc)

I have a feeling I know you will do the right thing.
Your husband will come to understand and possibly even thank you for it down the road. Your son most assuredly will too!
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