ER doctor retracted my 2 year old. *4th update, spoke with Marilyn from NOCIRC* - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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#31 of 46 Old 08-23-2007, 02:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Benji'sMom View Post
Well when he retracted him to examine the problem, did he find a raging foreskin infection? I think not. In fact the doctor who retract said it WASN'T an infection at all.
He might have just been experiencing some normal seperation irritation. When my intact DS was 13 months, he looked inflamed and was crying when he peed for a few days. He also had a decent amount of smegma come out. His ped tried telling me it was because I wasn't retracting him daily to clean. :

Anyway, I just kep him diaperless for a couple days and everything went back to normal. Sounds like you are dealing with a bunch of UA violations.

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#32 of 46 Old 08-23-2007, 03:31 PM
 
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UTI and the foreskin are not related anyway so circ is a none issue there. Actually the foreskin helps protect against UTI especially in boys who have urinary reflux. Reflux can be damaging to the kidneys for sure and should be ruled out. But after just one UTI I am not sure I would have it done honestly. I did have it done to my dd after 1 UTI her tests were negative. Looking back on it now I should have waited to see if she got another UTI before putting her thru that painful and terrifying experiance.

Make sure they do not retract him to do the cath. Insist on it and watch like a hawk to prevent it. If they insist it has to be done then tell them either get someone who knows what they are doing or the test will not be done.

Your ds has already been retracted once causing possible issues later the last thing he needs is more bacteria introduced into the picture.

Did you tell the Dr. that you have information that circ is not a cure for UTI and that having a foreskin dosnt make you more appt to get at UTI??

 
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#33 of 46 Old 08-23-2007, 03:37 PM
 
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I have no particular words of wisdom, but I'm so sorry that these awful doctors are putting you and little Paddy through so much grief!
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#34 of 46 Old 08-23-2007, 03:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I just got off the phone with Marilyn from NOCIRC. She gave me some phone numbers of other doctors, and also said that we should NOT have those tests done, that they are using scare tactics to push us into circumcision. Those tests are very invasive and not necessary for a first-time infection. I have to make some more phone calls...I will be back
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#35 of 46 Old 08-23-2007, 04:10 PM
 
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I just got off the phone with Marilyn from NOCIRC. She gave me some phone numbers of other doctors, and also said that we should NOT have those tests done, that they are using scare tactics to push us into circumcision. Those tests are very invasive and not necessary for a first-time infection. I have to make some more phone calls...I will be back
I didn't read all the previous posts b/c I couldn't stop thinking about the coincidence with the first doctor knowing who your urologist was...I bet she called ALL the local urologist to find this out. Which is even MORE evidence that she is trying really hard to cover her A$$. I am so sorry you're having to deal with this.

I'm thrilled that you got to talk to Marilyn!!! That lady rocks! I really hope she wins the Nobel Peace Prize one day. Seriously, her dedication to helping mothers/families/boys, merits a reward that'll echo in history!

Okay, now back to reading the rest of the post!
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#36 of 46 Old 08-23-2007, 04:18 PM
 
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I worry that these s that call themselve doctors are so busy backing each other up that that has become way more important than your DS's health. Can you go see a Dr who isn't reccomended or associated with the original from the ER.

It's hard to say if they are now over treating and over testing to distract you from the facts:
  • that you DS had a very simple condition that was easily cleared up with abx
  • that the original Dr was sloppy and missed it leaving the condition untreated, which could have been serious if you had just believed him so it remained untreated
  • that the original Dr perform an unnessacery, painful and potentialy damaging procedure on your DS
Or if with your family history of UTIs and kideny stones it is reasonable to go do these extra tests.


All the studies linking intactness to greater risk of UTIs show the link only in babies under 6 months of age. I believe you said your DS was 4 yo, that makes him over 6 mo, so the studies do not apply to him. (I won't go into why the stubies are crap anyway.)

Therefore the only reason I can see to circ your son is to hide any damage caused by ER doc.


ETA: I had already started typing before your latest update. What Marilyn is saying makes perfect sense to me.

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#37 of 46 Old 08-23-2007, 05:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by eepster View Post
I worry that these s that call themselve doctors are so busy backing each other up that that has become way more important than your DS's health. Can you go see a Dr who isn't reccomended or associated with the original from the ER.

It's hard to say if they are now over treating and over testing to distract you from the facts:
  • that you DS had a very simple condition that was easily cleared up with abx
  • that the original Dr was sloppy and missed it leaving the condition untreated, which could have been serious if you had just believed him so it remained untreated
  • that the original Dr perform an unnessacery, painful and potentialy damaging procedure on your DS
Or if with your family history of UTIs and kideny stones it is reasonable to go do these extra tests.


All the studies linking intactness to greater risk of UTIs show the link only in babies under 6 months of age. I believe you said your DS was 4 yo, that makes him over 6 mo, so the studies do not apply to him. (I won't go into why the stubies are crap anyway.)

Therefore the only reason I can see to circ your son is to hide any damage caused by ER doc.


ETA: I had already started typing before your latest update. What Marilyn is saying makes perfect sense to me.

so so true, exactly what I was thinking. Proteus species arent the most common UTI bugs but they arent at all rare. A one time occurrence can happen to anyone. If he were to have multiple reoccurring UTIs or even one more on top of this one, I can see doing the reflux ultrasounds. Having one, at this age, youd think if he had reflux issues it would have been found way before now. And yes, UTIs that go untreated for a long time can lead to kidney damage, but think of how many girls and women have recurrent UTI for whatever reason, they dont go into kidney failure at the second infection. Just seems so overblown and ridiculous now, especially since the antibiotics are working. Wow! Could it be it was just a regular UTI and part of life? I am not meaning to be sarcastic to you but to the whole doctor situation, the bottom line is whats listed above, Doc 1 missed it being an A-hole.
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#38 of 46 Old 08-23-2007, 05:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mama Poot View Post
I just got off the phone with Marilyn from NOCIRC. She gave me some phone numbers of other doctors, and also said that we should NOT have those tests done, that they are using scare tactics to push us into circumcision. Those tests are very invasive and not necessary for a first-time infection. I have to make some more phone calls...I will be back
I'm glad you have someone supporting you now and I hope it all works out, can't wait to here the end result of all this!

Single mom of 2 boys
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#39 of 46 Old 08-25-2007, 12:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Paddy will be going to the Cleveland Clinic to see the Head of Pediatric Urology, Dr. Jonathan Ross. He came recommended by a NOCIRC contact in the Cleveland area. Until then, I cancelled the appointment that was made at Akron Children's. We are declining all tests until we get this doctor's opinion.
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#40 of 46 Old 08-25-2007, 06:36 PM
 
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I would be very watchful at the Cleveland Clinic. I know absolutely nothiing of this particular doctor, but the Clinic's pediatric urology staff are in general pretty openly pro-circ. I haven't looked at their website in at lest a couple of years, but I remember picking up one of the pediatric urology brochures in the department. It said they provided circumcision for boys who had been missed when they were born. That sounds dangerous to me.
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#41 of 46 Old 08-25-2007, 11:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mama Poot View Post
I know someone asked about kidney stones, and the doctor mentioned that as a possibility. There is genetic predisposition to urinary problems. DH had a kidney stone very young ( about 25 years old he said, which is young for that) and before I had kids I suffered from chronic UTI's and also had a cystoscopy performed when I was 4 years old. My ureters are narrower than they should be.
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My ds was 26 months old when he was diagnosed w a kidney stone. Our ped thought he had a UTI because of the similar symptoms, but after a week on antibotics when it was not improving she sent us for an ultrasound and that is when we found out about the stone.


Our son was retracted by an uninformed RN at our first well-baby visit, we didn't know any better, so I know how you feel . I hope you get an answer soon.
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#42 of 46 Old 08-25-2007, 11:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mama Poot View Post
I know someone asked about kidney stones, and the doctor mentioned that as a possibility. There is genetic predisposition to urinary problems. DH had a kidney stone very young ( about 25 years old he said, which is young for that) and before I had kids I suffered from chronic UTI's and also had a cystoscopy performed when I was 4 years old. My ureters are narrower than they should be.
[/COLOR]
My ds was 26 months old when he was diagnosed w/ a kidney stone. Our ped thought he had a UTI because of the similar symptoms, but after a week on antibotics when it was not improving she sent us for an ultrasound and that is when we found out about the stone.


Our son was retracted by an uninformed RN at our first well-baby visit, we didn't know any better, so I know how you feel . I hope you get an answer soon.
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#43 of 46 Old 08-26-2007, 12:35 AM
 
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Originally Posted by stever_45723 View Post
I would be very watchful at the Cleveland Clinic. I know absolutely nothiing of this particular doctor, but the Clinic's pediatric urology staff are in general pretty openly pro-circ. I haven't looked at their website in at lest a couple of years, but I remember picking up one of the pediatric urology brochures in the department. It said they provided circumcision for boys who had been missed when they were born. That sounds dangerous to me.
I did a search and came up with some pretty disturbing things on www.clevelandclinic.org (search box on the top right)

circumcision The whole tone seems to lean toward circumcising.
Quote:
How is circumcision done?
During a circumcision, the foreskin is freed from the head of the penis (glans), and the excess foreskin is clipped off.
Freed?? Like it's trapped and needs to be liberated? And oh, then just "clip it off", like a fingernail.

Quote:
What are the benefits of circumcision?
There is some evidence that circumcision has medical benefits, including:

A decreased risk of urinary tract infections
A reduced risk of sexually transmitted diseases (STDs) in men
Protection against penile cancer and a reduced risk of cervical cancer in female sex partners
Prevention of balanoposthitis (inflammation of the glans and foreskin)
Prevention of phimosis (the inability to retract the foreskin) and paraphimosis (the inability to return the retracted foreskin to its original location)
Circumcision also makes it easier to keep the end of the penis clean.

Note: Some studies show that good hygiene can help prevent certain problems with the penis, including infections and swelling, even if the penis is not circumcised. In addition, practicing safe sex is an important factor in reducing the risk of STDs and other infections.
Lots of misinformation there. And I find it offensive the way they say good hygiene will help prevent problems, "even if the penis is not circumcised." Yes, if you chose to ignore all the great health, cultural and other reasons to do it mentioned above, and you or your child still has that pesky foreskin... well, keep it clean and hope for the best.

Disorders of the penis
Quote:
Balanitis
Balanitis is an inflammation of the skin covering the head of the penis. A similar condition, balanoposthitis, refers to inflammation of the head and the foreskin. Symptoms of balanitis include redness or swelling, itching, rash, pain and a foul-smelling discharge.

Balanitis most often occurs in men and boys who have not been circumcised (had their foreskin surgically removed), and who have poor hygiene. Inflammation can occur if the sensitive skin under the foreskin is not washed regularly, allowing sweat, debris, dead skin and bacteria to collect under the foreskin and cause irritation. The presence of tight foreskin may make it difficult to keep this area clean and can lead to irritation by a foul-smelling substance (smegma) that can accumulate under the foreskin.
This is all so anti-foreskin, it's ridiculous.

Quote:
Phimosis and paraphimosis
Phimosis is a condition in which the foreskin of the penis is so tight that it cannot be pulled back (retracted) to reveal the head of the penis. Paraphimosis occurs when the foreskin, once retracted, cannot return to its original location.

Phimosis, which is seen most often in children, may be present at birth.
It also can be caused by an infection, or by scar tissue that formed as a result of injury or chronic inflammation. Another cause of phimosis is balanitis, which leads to scarring and tightness of the foreskin. Immediate medical attention is necessary if the condition makes urination difficult or impossible.
I'm sorry- WHAT??? And these are urologists at one of the best hospitals in the country. If this information on their website is representative of their knowledge, then they are ignorant of the anatomy and function of a normal penis. That gives me shivers.

And their Dept of Dermatology had this charming factoid:
Quote:
CosmoDerm and Cosmoplast: Out of the mouths of babes? Not quite. To understand the technology behind these products you must go a little lower; specifically to the discarded foreskins of infant boys after circumcision. Using the collagen producing cells (fibroblasts) found in newborn foreskins scientists have been able to isolate and then replicate these cells to produce the collagen needed for injection. Like the bovine collagen commonly used to treat wrinkles today, these products are eventually reabsorbed by the body and require another treatment 3-6 months later. However, unlike bovine collagen, Cosmoderm and Cosmplast – used to treat fine lines and deep wrinkles respectively – the patient does not need to be test for allergies to the collagen. CosmoDerm and Cosmoplast were both approved by the FDA for use on March 12, 2003.
I don't think you can let your guard down for a moment, regardless of the recommendation. And if this doctor truly turns out to be foreskin-friendly, please point out what their website says.

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#44 of 46 Old 08-26-2007, 05:12 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Wow...well all I know is that this doctor came recommended by a NOCIRC contact in the Cleveland area. I will keep all of those horrible things in mind...Wow...
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#45 of 46 Old 08-26-2007, 10:08 PM
 
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I don't think you should panic too much over the website. I took a look at it and it's not all bad.

from http://www.clevelandclinic.org/healt...asp?index=9117
Quote:
The glans, which also is called the head of the penis, is covered with a loose layer of skin called foreskin. (This skin is sometimes removed in a procedure called circumcision.)
They treat intact as the normal default heere and circ is only mentioned in parenthasis.

The worst parts are not from the urology dept. They are from the educational dept and dermatology dept.

The Dr you are seeing probably did not write the website, and may not even have reveiwed it.

It is always a good idea to be wary of urologistis but I wouldn't condemm this one based on the hospitals educational programs website.

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#46 of 46 Old 09-15-2007, 09:53 PM
 
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