Will Brian Morris EVER stop telling lies? Will the media ever stop reporting them? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 19 Old 08-24-2007, 01:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...-23289,00.html

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"Between 2 and 5 per cent of uncircumcised boys will develop urinary tract infections, compared to only 0.1 to 0.2 per cent in boys who are circumcised," he said.
What is with the love fest between the Australian Media and Brian Morris? He is quoted in almost every story they write about this. And he LIES, as shown above-- 2 and 5%???? Where the heck did he get that stat? And will the media ever check his statements before printing them?

"Parents are simply trustees; they do not own the bodies of their children"-Norm Cohen  Martial arts instructor intactlact.gifhomebirth.jpgnak.gif and mom to 4: DD1 (1/05) DS (7/06) DD2 (5/08) DD3 (2/11)
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#2 of 19 Old 08-24-2007, 03:07 PM
 
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Here's the thing though...DH and I were talking about this last night, and even IF that stat WERE true, would it still be reason to circ? My sister gets repeated UTI's and is on daily medication to help control them, and I can guarantee you that if the dr. told her that the way to stop them was to cut off her labia, she wouldn't do it. So why is this any different?
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#3 of 19 Old 08-24-2007, 03:12 PM
 
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Journalists, when will we hold these fools accountable.
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#4 of 19 Old 08-24-2007, 04:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Papai View Post
Journalists, when will we hold these fools accountable.

They will never be held accountable because they puppeteers that use them for their ulterior agendas are shamelessly shielding them from inspection.

Sick, sordid, twisted oblivion the average public lives in.
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#5 of 19 Old 08-24-2007, 04:13 PM
 
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Originally Posted by wfuteach View Post
Here's the thing though...DH and I were talking about this last night, and even IF that stat WERE true, would it still be reason to circ? My sister gets repeated UTI's and is on daily medication to help control them, and I can guarantee you that if the dr. told her that the way to stop them was to cut off her labia, she wouldn't do it. So why is this any different?

Nor would we even go so far as to have routine ureter stretching to prevent them...and a LOT of UTI's are caused narrowed ureters...matter of a fact..by the time you get to go through cystoscopic exams and so forth...you might WISH that you had had that procedure done as a neonate...because that other stuff SUCKS.. That procedure would prevent MORE UTI's than circumcision does..>I would be willing to BET. So....DUH.

Moreover...we could routinely insert "drains" into all neonates ears to keep ear infections at bay..but we don't. We could easily remove all appendix and gallbladders to prevent any open abdominals later in life...or risk of pain or death...but we DON'T...We could also routinely do a LOT of needless and harmful procedures on the OFF chance that we would have an infliction....but we DON'T because it's bad medicine and bad science. It brings to mind that the average general public has a 3% chance of having a baby with a birth defect or disorder...so why in the world has the government allowed us to continue procreating...since this sounds exactly like the ironic odds they are working against for UTI's...matter of fact..it is MORE likely that you would have this statistic than a UTI. The baseline is that 98-99.9% of children will NOT have a UTI at all!!!!!

Good Lord...is anyone listening?!?!?!?!? What is wrong with THEM???? Before I was just concerned because of the pain of an unanesthisized procedure/circ...then I was pissed because of the social implications and how they force so many into this peerpressured decision, then I was pissed because of the overall barbaric nature, then I was pissed because of ethical consent...NOW...people I am PISSED because it is SO DAMN STUPID I CANNOT SEE STRAIGHT. WHY can they not see this??? How can such a large group of humans be so STUPID? What I said above...makes sense, right?

Good Granny...I am monologuing...you guys have to stop me...when I do that! = )
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#6 of 19 Old 08-24-2007, 04:19 PM
 
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TryingMyBest - I am so glad to see you in this forum. I know just how you feel - that was me once I realized just what circ was!

Mamma to 3! nurslings Emma (4) Daniel (3) and our new baby Beth! 10/10/09
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#7 of 19 Old 08-24-2007, 04:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by TryingMyBest View Post
Nor would we even go so far as to have routine ureter stretching to prevent them...and a LOT of UTI's are caused narrowed ureters...matter of a fact..by the time you get to go through cystoscopic exams and so forth...you might WISH that you had had that procedure done as a neonate...because that other stuff SUCKS.. That procedure would prevent MORE UTI's than circumcision does..>I would be willing to BET. So....DUH.

Moreover...we could routinely insert "drains" into all neonates ears to keep ear infections at bay..but we don't. We could easily remove all appendix and gallbladders to prevent any open abdominals later in life...or risk of pain or death...but we DON'T...We could also routinely do a LOT of needless and harmful procedures on the OFF chance that we would have an infliction....but we DON'T because it's bad medicine and bad science. It brings to mind that the average general public has a 3% chance of having a baby with a birth defect or disorder...so why in the world has the government allowed us to continue procreating...since this sounds exactly like the ironic odds they are working against for UTI's...matter of fact..it is MORE likely that you would have this statistic than a UTI. The baseline is that 98-99.9% of children will NOT have a UTI at all!!!!!

Good Lord...is anyone listening?!?!?!?!? What is wrong with THEM???? Before I was just concerned because of the pain of an unanesthisized procedure/circ...then I was pissed because of the social implications and how they force so many into this peerpressured decision, then I was pissed because of the overall barbaric nature, then I was pissed because of ethical consent...NOW...people I am PISSED because it is SO DAMN STUPID I CANNOT SEE STRAIGHT. WHY can they not see this??? How can such a large group of humans be so STUPID? What I said above...makes sense, right?

Good Granny...I am monologuing...you guys have to stop me...when I do that! = )
It is incredible. You have come such a long way! You're to be commended.
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#8 of 19 Old 08-24-2007, 04:31 PM
 
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You know what else I found insightful on my husband's part? Have you ever seen the episode of Grey's Anatomy where the woman wants to have a her ovaries removed because she might get ovarian cancer, and then to have her breasts cut off because she might get breast cancer one day? Well, DH brought this episode last night...how is what "we're" doing with circumcision any different? We are cutting off perfectly healthy body parts in "hopes" that one day they might prevent something...sheesh!

Great points TMB!
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#9 of 19 Old 08-24-2007, 09:07 PM
 
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Can I say that I am so embarrassed this sicko is Australian and lives in my state.
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#10 of 19 Old 08-25-2007, 05:44 AM
 
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There is good news in this story
Quote:
Infant male circumcision will be banned in public hospitals in Victoria from next month, except in cases where there is a medical need.
So the people in charge at least know what Brian Morris is full of. It's just some most likely circ'd reporter trying to make himself feel better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wfuteach View Post
Here's the thing though...DH and I were talking about this last night, and even IF that stat WERE true, would it still be reason to circ?
I would take a 3%-5% chance of something that could be treated with abx over a 10% chance of meatal stenosis witch is treated by widening the meatius.
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Originally Posted by TryingMyBest View Post
Good Granny...I am monologuing...you guys have to stop me...when I do that! = )
You've gotten to the point of rightios rage. This is to be expected when one discovers how our society has been twisted.

ETA looking at this post I realize the spelling is off and the grammer's atrocious, but I'm too tired to getit right. I'll be off to bed as soon as DS is done NAK.

Timmy's Mommy WARNINGyslexic typing with help of preschooler, beware of typos
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#11 of 19 Old 08-25-2007, 06:17 AM
 
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"There is a big anti-circumcision campaign out there run by lunatic-fringe organisations and unfortunately they've infiltrated the medical profession," said Brian Morris, professor of molecular medical sciencesat the University of Sydney.
He is NOT a doctor! I really got that one wrong.: Quirky, you pointed that out to me before and I just want to say thanks. I am still learning about who the people are in this war.
Yeah, that Brian Morris sounds very professional doesn't he.
Quote:
"As a South Australian, I'm very concerned that South Australia might follow the stupidity of Victoria, NSW and WA. It's an absolutely appalling policy, designed to save a few dollars, I suspect."
He is assaulting the Aussies!: What a freakin <insert major UA violation here>! There will be no chance in He!! that they'll respect him now. Why are the Australians reporting his crap anyways? Oh I get it... This is a really good way to get the ratings up! If you want to gain the attention of the public, you have to stir them up a little! It all makes sense to me now!

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joandsarah77 Can I say that I am so embarrassed this sicko is Australian and lives in my state.
Is this how everyone (all that you know of) in your country feels about this guy? Is he just a laughing stock?

Don't mind all my grammatical errors ppl. Like eepster, I'm tired as heck here. Got to get up early too. Going to TCU for class. oh my.
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#12 of 19 Old 08-25-2007, 01:57 PM
 
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Cool! I've always wanted to be part of a lunatic fringe!

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#13 of 19 Old 08-25-2007, 04:02 PM
 
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He is WAY OUT NUMBERED!!! Whats that make him?
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#14 of 19 Old 08-26-2007, 05:35 AM
 
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The Aussie media love Brian Morris and his mate Terry Russell because they think
they will increase their ratings etc.

The media never bothers to verify their statements, why spoil a good story?
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#15 of 19 Old 08-26-2007, 06:00 AM
 
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Brian Morris is on Sixty Minutes tonight, Sunday 26th 7.30pm Australian est

thats in less than 2 hours after i post this.

Quote:
Reporter: Liam Bartlett
Producer: Lincoln Howes

Four Australian states have banned it in public hospitals. And, as a man, Liam Bartlett can understand why.
Now that he's actually seen a baby boy being circumcised. It really is a painful experience, even for the spectator.
Now, circumcision's been around for centuries, but, here in Australia, it's no longer fashionable.
Parents have rejected it as out-dated and unnecessary. Not to mention cruel. Stand by, though, for a new and heated round of the age-old debate, to cut or not to cut. There's mounting evidence that circumcision has its benefits, a whole range of them. That it could just help save your son's life.
At 8.30pm there is a live chat involving Brian Morris.

http://community.ninemsn.com.au/chat...px?_cobr=optus
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#16 of 19 Old 08-26-2007, 08:38 AM
 
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Here is the transcript

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Reporter: Liam Bartlett
Producer: Lincoln Howes


Four Australian states have banned it in public hospitals. And, as a man, Liam Bartlett can understand why.

Now that he's actually seen a baby boy being circumcised. It really is a painful experience, even for the spectator.

Now, circumcision's been around for centuries, but, here in Australia, it's no longer fashionable.

Parents have rejected it as out-dated and unnecessary. Not to mention cruel.

Stand by, though, for a new and heated round of the age-old debate, to cut or not to cut. There's mounting evidence that circumcision has its benefits, a whole range of them. That it could just help save your son's life.

Transcript

LIAM BARTLETT: We used to say like father, like son. But in many cases these days, boys are different from their dads in one very fundamental way because of a decision made days after they were born. Jack Donaldson is just 10 weeks old, but he is about to undergo a procedure that he will live with for the rest of his life. He has got no idea what is coming up, has he?

TONI DONALDSON: No, thank God.

LIAM BARTLETT: Are you apprehensive?

TONI DONALDSON: A little bit, but I know, I know it is the best thing for him.

LIAM BARTLETT: Jack's mum, Toni, has decided to have him circumcised, to remove his foreskin.

DR TERRY RUSSELL: The pethidine is pain-killer.

LIAM BARTLETT: She has come to Dr Terry Russell, who does more circumcisions than any other physician in the country.

DR TERRY RUSSELL: First thing that we have to do is separate off that adhesion between the foreskin and the head of the penis. It is just like really peeling off a Band Aid.

LIAM BARTLETT: This is just the start and, I have got to admit, it is already pretty tough to watch. Depending on which stance you take on this highly controversial procedure, Toni is either inflicting unnecessary pain on little Jack or she could well be saving his life.

PROFESSOR BRIAN MORRIS: There is absolutely no reason to oppose circumcision. It should be promoted, it should be routine at birth, where it is cheaper, easier, simpler. Do it and it is done. Risk is reduced, massively reduced.

DR GEORGE WILLIAMS: We should call it male genital mutilation and call it by its true name, because that is what it is. You are maiming, you are injuring, and you are removing an essential body part. That's what mutilation is.

LIAM BARTLETT: It's an emotive debate, which makes it all the more difficult for parents like Toni to make a decision. But she believes she is doing the best thing for Jack's health. Some of the medical fraternity describe it as 'mutilation'. That must be confronting as a mother to hear that?

TONI DONALDSON: Yeah, that's right. I mean, it is horrible to hear it like that and any procedure that you do to your child is a concern as a parent, but I don't think they will have a memory of it and I think the benefits are much greater.

LIAM BARTLETT: This is little Jayden and this is Thomas. Not so long ago, both these boys would have already been circumcised — their foreskin surgically removed at the hospitals where they were born. In those days, it was as much a part of having a baby boy as knitting a pair of blue booties. But times have changed and circumcision, like those blue booties, has fallen out of fashion and out of favour.

ED PHILLIPS: I have actually oscillated from one side to the other — the chop or not. There are medical reasons now saying there is some value in doing it whereas, historically, they said just leave him as he was born.

LIAM BARTLETT: Ed Phillips, host of television quiz show Temptation and his wife, Jaynie, have just had a baby Hayden. Ed's of the generation of men when circumcision was routine at birth. In the '50s and '60s, 90 percent Australian boys were cut. But, since then, the figures have reversed. Now, just 10 percent of newborn sons are circumcised and Ed and Jaynie are in a quandary.

ED PHILLIPS: I would have thought I'd be happy to be the same as my dad and my brothers and all my schoolmates but, perhaps if you get the chop, you'll stand out from the crowd, so to speak. Um, I am going to have to see if it is such a big deal to be different from your mates yet, is there any pain involved? I can't remember the procedure and, of course, most kids are the same, so, I've got to make a decision in the next couple of weeks, I suppose.

LIAM BARTLETT: But if you thought routine circumcision was a thing of the past, think again. There is growing evidence to suggest that the move away from routine circumcision was a big mistake and may have disastrous consequences for coming generations of men.

PROFESSOR BRIAN MORRIS: The benefits outweigh any risks, which are minor anyway. The benefits are 100:1 in favour of circumcision, absolutely, no questions asked.

LIAM BARTLETT: Professor Brian Morris is leading the fight to see every Australian boy circumcised at birth. He has studied new international evidence showing a whole range of diseases are dramatically reduced in circumcised men. It's claimed the risk of HIV and AIDS can be cut by 60 percent. Circumcision can even protect women from the virus that causes cervical cancer.

PROFESSOR BRIAN MORRIS: We immunise children routinely to reduce all sorts of diseases. Circumcision is a surgical vaccine but it doesn't prevent just one condition, it prevents a raft of conditions through the life of the male.

LIAM BARTLETT: That's why Toni changed her mind on circumcisions for all her sons. When her eldest boy, Braden, was born, like most parents, she was happy enough to leave him uncircumcised. It wasn't even an issue. But, as a toddler, Braden suffered painful urinary tract infections and, at five, he had to be circumcised — a traumatic event that still has painful memories. Do you remember the operation?

BRADEN DONALDSON: Not too well, but some of it I do.

LIAM BARTLETT: Which parts do you remember?

BRADEN DONALDSON: The pain.

LIAM BARTLETT: It hurt, huh?

BRADEN DONALDSON: Yeah, it hurt a bit.

LIAM BARTLETT: And that would have put you off going to the doctor.

BRADEN DONALDSON: Yep. Didn't want to go back for a long time.

LIAM BARTLETT: Not wanting her two younger sons to suffer the same fate, Toni chose to have them circumcised soon after birth. Is it fair to say that you have had your boys circumcised for health reasons rather than cosmetic reasons?

TONI DONALDSON: Yep, absolutely. Absolutely health reasons. I didn't want them to go through the pain and the infection wasn't nice either so, just to prevent that, that's the only reason we had it done.

LIAM BARTLETT: Circumcision has a brutal history and, even until recently, it was pretty barbaric. The foreskin was literally lopped off with a scalpel, all without painkillers. Now, they do use anaesthetics and I'm assured the newest procedure is virtually painless. A device called a plastibell is inserted under the foreskin and tied off with string. But I've got to say that, as a bloke watching it all happen, you can't help but feel for little Jack.

DR TERRY RUSSELL: Now, there's a better test of pain. If you can do that …

LIAM BARTLETT: You're making my eyes water just watching it!

DR TERRY RUSSELL: I'm crushing along the midline. That does three things: It's squeezes any blood out of the tissue, it also crimps off the blood vessels to minimise bleeding, and it converts what can be quite a thick foreskin down to a nice thin bit of tissue that is easy to snip.

LIAM BARTLETT: You are going to cut that?

DR TERRY RUSSELL: Yep. And he shouldn't feel a thing. There we are.

LIAM BARTLETT: I am not convinced that crying is more discomfort than pain.

DR TERRY RUSSELL: In fact, he cried probably more than that when I gave him his injection. Okay, you can see how that has cut off the circulation already so that it can't bleed. That dead tissue will all fall off some three to seven days later.

LIAM BARTLETT: Did you hear Jack having a scream?

TONI DONALDSON: Yes, I did, and that is really uncomfortable to hear that but, I mean, that was nothing compared to what my eldest one went through when he had it done. I mean, he cried for hours afterwards and even up to a week afterwards he was in pain and he had stitches, too, that had to be removed afterwards, and it was very painful.

DR GEORGE WILLIAMS: When I had to do my first circumcision, because I was training, I was horrified that you were actually cutting and crushing and removing normal tissue. To me, it didn't make sense. And, up to this day, this is now 38 years down the track, I can't see why you want to remove healthy, normal tissue.

LIAM BARTLETT: George Williams is a paediatrician totally opposed to circumcision. He claims in one percent of cases the procedure goes wrong and he simply doesn't believe that new medical research justifies what he calls 'mutilation of the penis'. There appears to be a growing body of medical practitioners who favour circumcision purely on those health grounds.

DR GEORGE WILLIAMS: Well, I haven't seen the data that convinces me that that's what you have to do. Otherwise, we have to circumcise everybody at birth, or at the time of sexual activity, and say, 'We are now protecting you against HIV, we are now protecting your partner against cervical cancer'.

LIAM BARTLETT: Because that's what some doctors want.

DR GEORGE WILLIAMS: But they are misinformed and misguided.

LIAM BARTLETT: But Australia's peak medical body isn't so sure. In light of the new medical evidence, the Royal College of Physicians is now reviewing its long-standing guidelines recommending against circumcision. But if you're expecting consensus in this divisive debate any time soon, forget it. When we brought both sides together, they came out fighting.

DR GEORGE WILLIAMS: A baby has a right to self-determination.

PROFESSOR BRIAN MORRIS: They don't.

DR GEORGE WILLIAMS: Really? So you can do anything to them and that's okay?

PROFESSOR BRIAN MORRIS: Yes. Does a baby have a right to say 'no' to vaccination? No, a baby is too young!

LIAM BARTLETT: Can I just ask a different perspective, a slightly different perspective. Are you circumcised?

PROFESSOR BRIAN MORRIS: Yes, indeed. And I know that George isn't.

DR GEORGE WILLIAMS: And I'm not, I'm 'intact'. We call it 'intact' because intact you are natural and normal, you're original.

LIAM BARTLETT: So you're both speaking from a position of strengths, so to speak.

PROFESSOR BRIAN MORRIS: One in three men will have an adverse medical condition during their lifetime that will require medical attention.

DR GEORGE WILLIAMS: I can tell you, Professor Morris, I've had no problems of my foreskin.

PROFESSOR BRIAN MORRIS: Well, you are very lucky.

DR GEORGE WILLIAMS: That is not luck. That is not luck. It is commonsense, clinical, practical. You would never know what a normal penis is because you've never had one from the first few moments of your life.

PROFESSOR BRIAN MORRIS: That's absolutely no difference in function.

LIAM BARTLETT: Hang on, the doctor's got a point.

DR GEORGE WILLIAMS: You wouldn't know, you wouldn't know.

PROFESSOR BRIAN MORRIS: It's not about what I know.

DR GEORGE WILLIAMS: The only time that you would know what a normal penis is is when you're sexually active as an adult male, and you wouldn't know the difference.

LIAM BARTLETT: For the health and safety of Australia's sons, what would be your wish-list?

PROFESSOR BRIAN MORRIS: I want to see parents fully informed about all the benefits and all the risks.

DR GEORGE WILLIAMS: Leave the penis alone.

LIAM BARTLETT: Don't touch it.

DR GEORGE WILLIAMS: Don't touch it. Parents should accept that the original penis is a normal penis, it's a natural penis, and, if it's healthy, nothing has to be done to it, absolutely nothing.

LIAM BARTLETT: Whether we turn back the clock and bring routine circumcision remains to be seen. But while the experts argue, parents are left to struggle with the dilemma and make a lifelong choice for their sons.

TONI DONALDSON: You know, mothers and fathers are having to make decisions on things that could happen later on in life. It is a difficult decision.

ED PHILLIPS: My gut feeling is to make him look like his dad and tell him that's why so, gee, but it's not a clear-cut decision. Pardon the pun!
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#17 of 19 Old 08-26-2007, 10:15 AM
 
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I didn't see 60 minutes but I saw Carrie Bickmore talking about it on Rove. She sounded like she hadn't made a decision, but that all women she has asked said "hell yes" whereas all the men she asked said "hell no". Hopefully Rove and Pete were two of the "hell no" people and they'll talk some sense into her.

She lives in Victoria, so hopefully a nurse at the hospital will tell her about the upcoming ban and will show her the light.
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#18 of 19 Old 08-26-2007, 12:59 PM
 
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Why does brian morris want to continue to follow a flawed uti study written by a kicked off aap member that wrote his website garbage-suprisingly my son just got sand on his foreskin - it made me wonder if feces stick on a circumcised boy and how much sand would actually get into his meatus

Back to the commentary edgar schoen wrote poems about circumcised penises plus i feel bad for circumcized brian morris but i'm for sure he would change his stance if he began to restore come on everyone lets try & find a way to 'challenge the proffessor because wasn't one of the husbands on here who was restoring to humor his wife didn't think there would be any difference but there was
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#19 of 19 Old 08-27-2007, 09:56 AM
 
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Is this how everyone (all that you know of) in your country feels about this guy? Is he just a laughing stock?

I have no idea, out here in the country circumcision isn't discused. Not by family, friends or the Dr's. Any boy I have chanced to see naked has been intact. I would have no idea how to bring it up. I think people here would think your a bit of a perv if you did. A Dr never asked us or mentioned cir, I believe if parents want it done they have to ask. In the city now might be another story, I imagine that is where most of the new recruits are coming from. How I feel is that, that Moris creep is a circ fettish and full of BS.
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