Circ, give in or not have a child together? - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#31 of 57 Old 09-06-2007, 05:35 PM
 
sun-shine01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Where it is BLAZIN' HOT!
Posts: 964
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Getz View Post
You have 2 choices. Refuse to give consent and let him deal with it or leave him.
I agree!
sun-shine01 is offline  
#32 of 57 Old 09-06-2007, 06:24 PM
 
sophiekat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: revolting with the knitters
Posts: 1,613
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
yeah, that'd be a deal breaker.

Obstruct livery vehicles!

sophiekat is offline  
#33 of 57 Old 09-06-2007, 06:53 PM
 
wannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,790
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I wouldn't have kids together. If they could do that to their child what sort of father will they be?

Quote:
Its one thing to compromise on a haircut, or on who you spend holidays with etc... but never on the excrutiatingly painful elective cosmetic surgery of a helpless newborn.
That.

Quote:
I would definitely try to educate him first. I found, with my dp, that a small comment here and there (facts about circ) was enough to get him to change his mind. No big discussion, and I didn't wait to see if he disagreed with my comment or not. Just said it and moved on.
This too. My husband once suggested CIO. When I described it to him he VERY quickly changed his mind. Ignorance is OK, making a decision in a state of ignorance, or making a bad decision when you have the information is not OK.
wannabe is offline  
#34 of 57 Old 09-06-2007, 06:54 PM
 
loriforeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 657
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
in the beginning, before ever getting pregnant...i had "the talk".

several issues to do with rearing children were included that have NO compromise: no corporal punishment, catholic upbringing, no CIO, co-sleeping, CLW, complete vegetarians...and yes, no circumcision should we have boys. oh, and no drugs.

other issues are negotiable and up to compromise...but i would have let him know that i definitely intended to HAVE children, so it was his choice whether that was with him or not.
loriforeman is offline  
#35 of 57 Old 09-06-2007, 07:57 PM
 
DklovesMkandJK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 431
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Wow...

Just my .02 but I think some of the responses are a little harsh.

My DH was very Pro-Circ up to and including our pregnancy with Jack. It took a lot of debate, work and information to open his eyes to the horrors of circ'ing. Now he is really big on anti-circ'ing and tries to share the knowledge. Just because he doesn't 'get it' yet doesn't neccesarily mean he is a bad guy and you shouldn't have kids. I would just keep trying to educate him in addition to reminding how important intactness is to you. Show him the videos, read him the articles, tell him the horror stories. Tell him he needs to change your mind. Have him bring you good reasons to circ. (ha ha - not that there are any!)

Tell him you want to have his children but could never bring a child into the world and cut a peice of him off.

Good Luck. I remember being in your shoes and don't envy your situation at all - but your SO's opinion can be changed. I never in a million years thought Michael would come aroubd and now look at him!

<3 Dena

Wife to M 4.04 and Mama to hopmad.gifJ the activist 5.06, superhero.gifSammy Tsunami 12.09, and stork-girl.gif  coming soon!

DklovesMkandJK is offline  
#36 of 57 Old 09-06-2007, 08:10 PM
A&A
 
A&A's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 16,859
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)


Glad you're here with us!

First of all, here's an article for YOU to read (not to show your dp, just for YOU to read and think about.) It will give your perspective into his brain:

http://www.stopcirc.com/vincent/vuln...ty_of_men.html

And here's another article for you to read about why it's so important to listen to those mama bear instincts and leave our sons intact:

http://www.noharmm.org/feminist.htm



So, on to your question. If I were currently dating someone who wanted to circ a future son, I'd sit him down, give him a nice backrub, and have this to say:

"Sweetie, leaving my son(s) intact is completely at the core of who I am as a mother. I couldn't cut off their foreskin any more than I could cut off a toe. I can't, and I won't. Ever. We will NOT have a child together until you understand this and accept it. I'll give you as much time as you need, and I'll give you as much information as you need. But you need to know that this is part of the package of loving me........this is WHO I AM as a human being and a mother. If you can't ever accept it, then maybe we're not right for each other."

"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
A&A is offline  
#37 of 57 Old 09-06-2007, 08:26 PM
 
carriebft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,947
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DklovesMkandJK View Post
Wow...

Just my .02 but I think some of the responses are a little harsh.

My DH was very Pro-Circ up to and including our pregnancy with Jack. It took a lot of debate, work and information to open his eyes to the horrors of circ'ing. Now he is really big on anti-circ'ing and tries to share the knowledge. Just because he doesn't 'get it' yet doesn't neccesarily mean he is a bad guy and you shouldn't have kids. I would just keep trying to educate him in addition to reminding how important intactness is to you. Show him the videos, read him the articles, tell him the horror stories. Tell him he needs to change your mind. Have him bring you good reasons to circ. (ha ha - not that there are any!)

Tell him you want to have his children but could never bring a child into the world and cut a peice of him off.

Good Luck. I remember being in your shoes and don't envy your situation at all - but your SO's opinion can be changed. I never in a million years thought Michael would come aroubd and now look at him!

I agree! SO many minds have been changed. I dont think the options- right now- are ONLY refuse consent or leave. While I Do recommend the first one; i think that "education" is an option right now becuase you have the time for that.

Start with this article:

http://www.infocirc.org/MensHlth.htm

"Parents are simply trustees; they do not own the bodies of their children"-Norm Cohen  Martial arts instructor intactlact.gifhomebirth.jpgnak.gif and mom to 4: DD1 (1/05) DS (7/06) DD2 (5/08) DD3 (2/11)
carriebft is offline  
#38 of 57 Old 09-07-2007, 06:01 PM
 
wannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,790
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by loriforeman View Post
in the beginning, before ever getting pregnant...i had "the talk".

several issues to do with rearing children were included that have NO compromise: no corporal punishment, catholic upbringing, no CIO, co-sleeping, CLW, complete vegetarians...and yes, no circumcision should we have boys. oh, and no drugs.

other issues are negotiable and up to compromise...but i would have let him know that i definitely intended to HAVE children, so it was his choice whether that was with him or not.
Exactly. Choosing a partner is also choosing your children's father. To have a child together thinking "oh, he'll change his mind" is as foolish as marrying a man who hits you, or a man who has a definite idea on you working/not working when you have kids which is the opposite of yours.
wannabe is offline  
#39 of 57 Old 09-07-2007, 06:20 PM
 
veganf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Framingham, MA
Posts: 8,077
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If I knew that I had tried prenuptially to show him all sorts of relevant anti-circ literature, videos, etc and he was still pro-circ, then I would either not have children with him, or I would adopt girls or have him agree to IVF with only female embryos. But most likely I would not marry someone who was pro-circ in the first place, and I would put it in a pre-nuptial agreement that any boys not be circ'd.

milk donation : mother to Ryan (6), AJ (5), Nate (2), Maia (1) all born at home, I have a kid-friendly food & bento blog, : :
veganf is offline  
#40 of 57 Old 09-07-2007, 07:17 PM
 
Mommiska's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,596
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by A&A View Post


Glad you're here with us!

First of all, here's an article for YOU to read (not to show your dp, just for YOU to read and think about.) It will give your perspective into his brain:

http://www.stopcirc.com/vincent/vuln...ty_of_men.html

And here's another article for you to read about why it's so important to listen to those mama bear instincts and leave our sons intact:

http://www.noharmm.org/feminist.htm



So, on to your question. If I were currently dating someone who wanted to circ a future son, I'd sit him down, give him a nice backrub, and have this to say:

"Sweetie, leaving my son(s) intact is completely at the core of who I am as a mother. I couldn't cut off their foreskin any more than I could cut off a toe. I can't, and I won't. Ever. We will NOT have a child together until you understand this and accept it. I'll give you as much time as you need, and I'll give you as much information as you need. But you need to know that this is part of the package of loving me........this is WHO I AM as a human being and a mother. If you can't ever accept it, then maybe we're not right for each other."
:

I think that most guys will, eventually and if approached in the right way, come around. But it's hard. To leave a son intact, they have to accept at least the possibility that their penis is 'damaged' - and what guy wants to accept that? The Vulnerability of Men article is very very good for explaining what is going on.

What about just explaining to your SO that this isn't a 'my decision' or 'your decision' - that this should be your SON'S decision. After all, the penis doesn't belong to your dh any more than it belongs to you, you know? How do you think your SO would respond to just pointing out that your 'decision' is simply a non-decision - you leave your son the way he is born.

If your son choses some form of body modification for himself as an adult, that's his business (and highly unlikely!) - but why (and by what moral authority) should his parents chose that body modification for him?

There was another thread here recently where this approach worked for one mama!

Hugs to you both...this is such a difficult topic for both moms and dads (for different reasons).

To answer your question, though, I would let any SO I had know that no child of mine would ever be circed...and he needed to understand and accept that before we had children together.
Mommiska is offline  
#41 of 57 Old 09-07-2007, 07:51 PM
 
mommystinch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,162
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I would not have a child with someone who insisted on circing. I just couldn't feel close to someone who I knew would harm my child. There are some things with parenting that are absolute deal breakers for me. If dh insisted on circing, CIO, spanking, or not breastfeeding, I would never have dreamed of having children with him, nor would I want to be with him.
mommystinch is offline  
#42 of 57 Old 09-07-2007, 09:14 PM
 
Greeneyes0506's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 309
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
.
Greeneyes0506 is offline  
#43 of 57 Old 09-07-2007, 09:38 PM
 
LoveChild421's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North GA
Posts: 4,593
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuhraycee View Post

If SO/DH would not, did not, waiver on his feelings on circ-ing what would you do?
Thankfully both my exboyfriend and dp were both against infant circ. They both had taken Human Rights and such classes in college and were informed about issues such as circ.

However, if I were not with such a man, I would first try to use reason- say "let's get informed together and watch a video of it being done so that we know what it really is" Anyone who can watch a video of a helpless child being victimized that way and NOT immediately change his mind is not a person I would be willing to be with. Anyone with even an ounce of compassion will get physically ill seeing what circ really is- people think "oh it's quick and easy and pretty painless"- they are just ignorant. Seeing it done is worth a thousand words or explanations, it speaks for itself- its a crime against reason and compassion.

It's good to have these discussions when things are just hypothetical because you can keep emotions from running as high and really help the uninformed person to see circ for what it is.

Never would I give in, wouldn't even consider it. To do so would be betraying my child- I would feel as if I had sold my soul.

Jen read.gif Mama of 2 precious boys blowkiss.gif (9)  flowersforyou.gif (6)  and still in heartbeat.gif with my Matt hat.gif after 12 years together. 

rainbow1284.gif Domestic Violence Children's Advocate and Counselor hug2.gif

 homebirth.jpg bf.jpg nocirc.gif ribbonjigsaw.gif 

LoveChild421 is offline  
#44 of 57 Old 09-07-2007, 09:41 PM
 
Sharlla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Springfield Mo
Posts: 12,042
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I wouldn't get so far as to marry someone that didn't share my parenting philosophies, if he decided later on that he wanted to circ, that would be the end of that. It's not my penis and not my choice to make and that's that.

Unassisted birthing, atheist, poly, bi WOHM to 4 wonderful, smart homeschooling kids Wes (14) Seth (7) Pandora Moonlilly (2) and Nevermore Stargazer (11/2012)  Married to awesome SAH DH.

Sharlla is offline  
#45 of 57 Old 09-07-2007, 09:54 PM
 
New Mexico Beach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 707
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Man, that is tough.

I don't think I could have a child with someone, living in fear that they'd take the child and have him circ'd.

Giving in is not an option, imo.
New Mexico Beach is offline  
#46 of 57 Old 09-07-2007, 10:14 PM
 
Elowyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 1,793
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I wouldn't have a child with him. Period. No son of mine will have his body mutilated in that fashion, unless/until he's of legal age and wishes to do so. No man is worth hurting my child for.

crafty mama to Chloe and Emma (10/08) and Piper
emergency medicine PA and single mother by choice
Elowyn is offline  
#47 of 57 Old 09-08-2007, 12:14 AM
A&A
 
A&A's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 16,859
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mommiska View Post

What about just explaining to your SO that this isn't a 'my decision' or 'your decision' - that this should be your SON'S decision.


.
I'd go even further.........it's NOBODY'S "decision."

"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
A&A is offline  
#48 of 57 Old 09-08-2007, 12:31 AM
 
mamasophy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: central coast, CA
Posts: 578
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
This issue took a few YEARS for my DH to deal with, beginning before we ever got married. A cut man simply has to deal with the fact that he was cut against his will, which brings up feelings about his genitals, their power or feared lack thereof which translates to HIS power or lack thereof as a MAN. If a man hasn't dealt with this issue, any admittance that circ is NOT a good thing will touch him very deeply, pushing buttons that he may not know exist, buttons that bring him back to a powerless and fearful place. My DH is a very intelligent and compassionate man but he will tell anyone that asks that all the anti-circ information in the world, no matter that he agrees with it or not, will not address the real matter for men who expect to circ a son. If your DH (or DP) doesn't circ his son, he will be admitting that his own circ was wrong. Go through the connections and you get to the same place: no circ = I am less of a man. You may need to give it time, lots of understanding and information, but know that you will not let this happen - he can get over his hang ups, but your son can never get back what would be lost to a circ.
mamasophy is offline  
#49 of 57 Old 09-08-2007, 01:34 PM
 
Captain_Crunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: East Millcreek,UT
Posts: 279
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Where I live the mother is the one who has to consent to everything in the hospital, if the mother refuses to consent they will not do it. So if I was truly in love I'd still have a child but fight like hell to make sure he wasn't circ'd.

However, I cannot imagine spending the rest of my life with someone who doesn't share my beliefs or ,at the very least, won't even try to understand them and find a compromise.

Mama to 01/2008 and anxiously awaiting due July 2011
Captain_Crunch is offline  
#50 of 57 Old 09-08-2007, 02:42 PM
 
GearGirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,950
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My husband is one of the most loving people in the world, just uneducated in this way. He thinks he would be doing a disservice to his child by NOT circing. I think it is pretty intollerant to be unable to imagine a loving parent who could feel this way, often people just need education. I do understand choosing not to have a child with someone who would circ, but to not understand that someone could be a loving parent and still think this is OK : . I'm sure I will give my husband some information and he will see that it is wrong, but I have also been a little lazy about it because I know if I do have a boy he will not be circed, because I will refuse, and I know my LOVING husband would never go behind my back. I hope the same is true for you op.
GearGirl is offline  
#51 of 57 Old 09-08-2007, 02:58 PM
 
kalisis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: somewhere between here and there
Posts: 4,779
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It'd be a deal breaker for me. We also discussed circ very early on and he agreed that since I felt so strongly against it, we wouldn't do it, ever.

In our relationship, it takes two yes's to do something, but only one no not to. We can discuss it and talk about it and go back and forth, but if one person is still firm that they believe no, then it's a no go. There aren't many of these issues where we don't fully agree, but that's our rule.

*~* A * Mama to C and A * *~* I blog - PM me for the URL
kalisis is offline  
#52 of 57 Old 09-08-2007, 03:56 PM
 
*Karen*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 2,417
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If he really wants to make a power play, refuse to put his name on the birth certificate so that he has no legal right to mutilate your baby. Wait until the baby is older and then add him, and then I'm rather sure he will not want to do it later.
I would absolutely not circ a baby no matter what your SO says.

CPST and SAHM to DS (4/20/06) and DD (6/13/08)
*Karen* is offline  
#53 of 57 Old 09-08-2007, 04:50 PM
 
Arduinna's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 32,562
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
When I was in this situation, arguing over circ, I lost the desire to get pregnant. I couldn't even consider it, it made me sick. Luckily I don't have that problem anymore since dh and I are in agreement that circ is wrong.
Arduinna is offline  
#54 of 57 Old 09-08-2007, 06:12 PM
 
Kwgrlup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chill'in my Chones in IPTK
Posts: 2,428
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I do not know what I would have done. Honestly if I had circ'd my first boy I would have regretted it, but I do not think I would have have become such a big advocate of not circing. We would have circ'd him and I would still be married to my husband, at the time it was not that big of a deal. I let my hubby make the final decision. I told him if he chose to get our son circ'd then he would have to sit in the room with him while they did it. I knew that hubby would not of been able to handle it, so I was pretty sure he was going to side with me. I let him be for about 2 months, then he told me we were not going to circ. When DS #2 came along it was not even an issue if we would or not.... Come to find out FIL and BIL were not circ, so hubby is the only one in his family who is. I gave my MIL a big hug after I found that one out....

Janet ~ Wife to Bryon (Ret. USN), Mama to Korbyn(12)homebirth.jpg, Koltyn (7)homebirth.jpgribboncesarean.gif, and Kashlynn (6/23/09)vbac.gif Our long awaited little girl!! ... a woman who fears the Lord is to be praised (proverbs 31:30)

Kwgrlup is offline  
#55 of 57 Old 09-19-2007, 02:10 AM - Thread Starter
 
tuhraycee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 88
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I appreciate the responses (sorry it took so long for me to reply!).

I think there is a lot more to SO's strong opinion in favor of circ'ing. We've been together less than 2 months (I know, very very short amount of time to be discussing this but once it's touched upon it's hard to let it go...) and I know a few facts that might be an issue here.

From the sounds of it he was circ'ed at 14 (?!?). Not sure why but I'm sure there is some underlying feeling there that he was "dirty" and his parents forced this upon him.

Also, he's younger than I am and has had some very rough things happen to him in his life in relation to his child(ren). His stubborness on this issue is just the tip of the iceburg, I think.

I'm not going to leave a man I love more than I could ever have imagined possible over circing. BUT it makes it very obvious to me that we have a long road ahead of us on some issues, such as this one, before we add a child. (That was obvious before this, but now I have a specific topic to address, for sure!)

WOHM to a March 2004 kiddo and a November 2010 toddler. stillheart.gif

tuhraycee is offline  
#56 of 57 Old 09-19-2007, 02:11 AM - Thread Starter
 
tuhraycee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 88
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Btw, I can't get the Vulnerability of Men site to load! Arg!!

WOHM to a March 2004 kiddo and a November 2010 toddler. stillheart.gif

tuhraycee is offline  
#57 of 57 Old 09-19-2007, 02:19 AM
 
jessjgh1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: South Shore MA
Posts: 4,956
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
u can get to it from here : http://www.coloradonocirc.org/pamphlets.php
here's the pdf link.... also web and html links to it
http://www.coloradonocirc.org/pamphlets.php

Sounds like you know what you are up against. I feel bad to read this:
Quote:
circ'ed at 14 (?!?). Not sure why but I'm sure there is some underlying feeling there that he was "dirty" and his parents forced this upon him.
Jessica

Jessica..lady.gifintactlact.gif Falling in love all over again..... 
Dhprivateeyes.gif, Joshua rolleyes.gif Rebeccagrouphug.gifand dog2.gif.    candle.gif for Laura
jessjgh1 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off