Crunch-Free Anti-Circ links? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 11 Old 10-26-2007, 11:05 PM - Thread Starter
 
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DH and I have always understood that if we have a ds, he'll be intact (dh is circ'd) .... But my two siblings who've had sons have both circ'd their sons (We are a relatively AP family although I'm definitely on the far end of the spectrum).

Their reasons have been:
1. Look like Dad/Don't want to look "weird" in the locker room.
2. "Hygiene" - the belief that a normal penis is more likely to get infected (my older sister brought up stories of Desert Storm troops and adult circ's).

My older sister (first to circ) DID tell me when we discussed it, that the data is "pretty much even" and that she thought she'd just err on "looking like Dad" (she's a nurse). So, she at least isn't vehemently pro-circ. She thought it was funny that we wouldn't, but wasn't worried or upset about it KWIM?

.....
So, another sister is pregnant -- and I'd like to let her know in a non-judgmental way that circumcising is actually not necessary, and no longer "recommended." I don't want to start a family firestorm here though. And, my sister who is pregnant is a bit more mainstream .... as is her dh ....

(DH says it would figure if we have all girls, and my sisters have sons, since we're the ones who know we won't circ ). I just feel so passionate about it, especially since some of our sexual challenges as a couple are SO explained by dh's circ .... I'd like to think that given the information, most parents would choose to keep their sons intact.

I'd like to send my sister some links to information against circ'ing, but I do know that it will need to seem unbiased, and not "Anti" circ --- let her know that we've decided that if we have a son, he will be intact, that I hope she researches their decision and is comfortable with the one they make ---

Does anyone have suggestions of good links to send her way (other than the AAP "no medical reason" policy?)?

Not all who wander are lost.
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#2 of 11 Old 10-27-2007, 12:29 AM
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try these.

http://www.healthcentral.com/drdean/408/9987.html

http://www.med.umich.edu/1libr/pa/pa_circumci_hhg.htm

http://parenting.ivillage.com/newbor...j8v1-2,00.html

http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi...nfo/spock.html


http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID={700CC34D-E679-4D1B-8F39-E7822369F177}


http://www.frontpagemagazine.com/Art...9-8D8BC29AD365


http://www.mind.org.uk/Information/Factsheets/Men/

Circumcision
Circumcision is practised on some male infants as a routine, or for religious or cultural reasons. It is also practised on adult males as a result of certain medical conditions.


There is strong evidence that circumcision can be overwhelmingly painful and traumatic. The physical and sexual loss resulting from circumcision is gaining recognition, and some men have strong feelings of dissatisfaction about being circumcised.

Studies into the practice of circumcision often refer to the practice as 'traumatic'. [37] [38] Research suggests that some boys, and adult males, may experience post-traumatic stress disorder as a result of circumcision. [39] Examples of PTSD symptoms include recurrent thoughts and dreams about, and avoidance of the topic of circumcision. Other symptoms include emotional numbing and inappropriate anger that may increase with time after the traumatic event. Both infant and adult circumcision can result in a loss of sexual sensitivity and, in some cases, can result in impotence. [40]

Negative feelings about the penis are related to the idea of body image. This includes value judgements about how the body is thought to appear to others, and can have a great impact on how men live their lives.


http://www.coeffic.demon.co.uk/descrim.htm


http://www.urotoday.com/58/browse_ca...ult_penis.html

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/s...e,141642.shtml



http://www.nospank.net/prescott.htm



this one is mostly about selling natural cures but it might help.


http://www.drfeder.com/children/circ...ntact-bris.htm


http://www.healthcentral.com/drdean/408/60750.html

http://www.drnorthrup.com/news/femalecircumcision.php


http://mensightmagazine.com/Articles...p/lovecirc.htm


http://www.drnorthrup.com/
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#3 of 11 Old 10-27-2007, 03:22 AM
 
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For info that doesn't scare off or just get dismissed as new age hocus pocus by the mainstream crowd I recommend 2 things.

The Canadian Pediatric Societies circ page it is very neutral in tone and put out by an authoratative medicl group, but clearly explains many risks and side effects of circ.

The other is the Penn & Teller BS season 3 with the anticirc episode. If you want to be very subtle don't even tell them about the annticirc episode just give it as a gift. This approach works better for those that need to discover things for themselves.

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#4 of 11 Old 10-27-2007, 04:27 AM
 
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Originally Posted by eepster View Post
The other is the Penn & Teller BS season 3 with the anticirc episode. If you want to be very subtle don't even tell them about the annticirc episode just give it as a gift. This approach works better for those that need to discover things for themselves.
It it would be easier/they would go for it, you could just email them this link...
It's (almost?) the entire circ episode!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...91532653693892
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#5 of 11 Old 10-27-2007, 06:33 AM
 
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Do you have a close enough relationship with your sister that you could talk personally about the negative impact circumcision has had on you and your dh? Could you let them know that your dh is not happy that he's circumcised - I've always thought that was the strongest argument.

His penis, his decision. And there are a lot of adult males out there who were cut as babies and who are very upset about that fact, as it has had negative impacts on them that their parents probably still don't know about (because as an adult, you aren't too likely to discuss your sex life with your parents, are you?).

I'd also send a link to the vulnerability of men article, so your sisters can understand where their husbands are coming from with the 'look like Daddy' argument.

http://www.udonet.com/circumcision/v...ty_of_men.html

I totally agree about the Penn and Teller video, though - as long as they won't be offended by off colour humour/swearing. I'm pretty sure that video is what got through to my (mainstream) brother, and his son is intact!
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#6 of 11 Old 10-27-2007, 11:09 AM
 
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Desert Storm? Those men would've been circ'd at birth ANYway! :
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#7 of 11 Old 10-27-2007, 05:15 PM
 
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I was coming here to start this very thread. Thanks, OP

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#8 of 11 Old 10-27-2007, 05:43 PM
 
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I really like www.oknocirc.blogspot.com

But I caution against sending a bunch of links. Read through them, pick one or two, send them off, and then start a conversation. There are so many myths about circ, you don't want to waste time focusing on myths your sister doesn't believe in anyway -- you really need to have a discussion to figure out what she thinks and what she knows about circ and the foreskin.

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#9 of 11 Old 10-27-2007, 06:08 PM
 
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The Australian college of physicians position statement has an excellent discussion of the risks vs benefits wrt infection - pointing out that to prevent one UTI you'd have to submit x number of kids to complications of circ, and that the numbers really don't balance out at all. Totally crunch-free and deadpan science.

http://www.racp.edu.au/download.cfm?...36DF59A1BAF527

(pdf link, sorry)
Quote:
Assuming an annual incidence of UTI of 1% during the first year of life for uncircumcised boys, the risk of UTI may be reduced from 10 per 1,000 to 1-3 per 1000, a difference of 7-9 per 1,000, or a need to circumcise between 110 to 140 boys to prevent one UTI during the first year of life.
On the other side of the equation, taking a mid-range figure of 2% (20 per 1,000) for major complications from circumcision, mainly from haemorrhage and infection (see earlier section), for every 1,000 infants circumcised, about eight fewer will develop a UTI but 20 will develop a significant complication. Assuming that the “harm” of a UTI is about the same as a complication, routine circumcision is difficult to advocate as a public health measure
and
Quote:
Apart from pain and distress, and the side effects of local anaesthesia, there have been many complications of circumcision reported5,60,61. Most complications are minor, but some can be more severe, such as penile amputation and even death. The overall reported rate of complications after circumcision varies between 0.06%62 to 55%63 depending on the situation in which it is performed and the precise definition of complication. Most series describe a complication rate of about 2%-10%64-66. A detailed summary of complications has been provided by Williams and Kapila61, and includes the following:
• Haemorrhage
• Infection
• Glanular ulceration
• Meatal stenosis
• Inadvertent injury of the urethra (fistula)
• Too much skin removed
• Loss of penis (1 in 1,000,000)
• Anaesthetic complications
• Psychological trauma
• Secondary phimosis
• Secondary chordee.
The true incidence of major complications after newborn circumcision is unknown but is reported to be from between 0.2% and 0.6%5 to 2%-10%61. The most frequent acute problem is haemorrhage, and may indicate an underlying vitamin K deficiency or haemophilia. Infection is usually minor, but rarely septicaemia and meningitis may occur. Longer term complications include meatal stenosis, cutaneous tags, poor cosmetic appearance, and psychological trauma. Children with prominent prepubic fat may have a concealed penis following surgery which tends to resolve at puberty.
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#10 of 11 Old 10-28-2007, 12:12 AM
 
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Originally Posted by wannabe View Post
The Australian college of physicians position statement has an excellent discussion of the risks vs benefits wrt infection - pointing out that to prevent one UTI you'd have to submit x number of kids to complications of circ, and that the numbers really don't balance out at all. Totally crunch-free and deadpan science.

http://www.racp.edu.au/download.cfm?...36DF59A1BAF527

(pdf link, sorry)


and
This is the one I was going to suggest!
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#11 of 11 Old 10-28-2007, 01:26 AM
 
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