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#1 of 141 Old 11-11-2007, 09:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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This occurred to me today: My son will enjoy a normal sex life because he is intact. My daughter is not guaranteed a normal sex life because her husband may be circumcised.
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#2 of 141 Old 11-11-2007, 09:06 PM
 
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I have thought about this too. I wonder what are the odds my daughter will find and fall in love with an intact man (although I do not assume to know her sexual orientation).

OUR DAUGHTERS ARE PROTECTED SHOULDN'T OUR SONS BE TOO! :
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#3 of 141 Old 11-11-2007, 09:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by janellesmommy View Post
This occurred to me today: My son will enjoy a normal sex life because he is intact. My daughter is not guaranteed a normal sex life because her husband may be circumcised.

ummm..definition check on "normal"???
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#4 of 141 Old 11-11-2007, 09:12 PM
 
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I know, I was thinking the same thing. : Okay, well, don't have a daughter yet, but I hope to someday. I'm going to discuss it with her though, when she's a teen.

On a lighter note, I was thinking of shipping this hypothetical future daughter off to Europe. I'll make sure she can speak French or Italian or something first. : Is that wrong? :

♥ blogger astrologer mom to three cool kiddos, and trying to figure out this divorce thing-- Blossom and Glow ♥

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#5 of 141 Old 11-11-2007, 09:14 PM
 
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ummm..definition check on "normal"???
Natural? Not painful? The way God and nature intended? Although circ'ed sex may be the norm in the US, in the span of mankind's years on earth it is not normal.

♥ blogger astrologer mom to three cool kiddos, and trying to figure out this divorce thing-- Blossom and Glow ♥

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#6 of 141 Old 11-11-2007, 09:17 PM
 
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Natural? Not painful? The way God and nature intended? Although circ'ed sex may be the norm in the US, in the span of mankind's years on earth it is not normal.

ahhh....definately makes sense. gracias.
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#7 of 141 Old 11-11-2007, 09:19 PM
 
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I can't honestly say I've thought that far ahead...FWIW my DH is circumcised and our sex life is just fine. Of course neither one of us knows the alternative...but I hope no one feels sorry for me.

I'm NOT FOR circumcison...I'm just saying. Any future sons we have will NOT be getting circumcised.
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#8 of 141 Old 11-11-2007, 09:47 PM
 
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I don't have a daughter so that thought hadn't occured to me, but sometimes I do worry about the women ds will meet. What if one of them really does pressure him about getting cut? I mean I know only a really shallow woman would do it, but I still don't want him feeling baddly about himself, or worse yet making a decision he would later regret for a girl. It would be so much better if circ wasn't the norm in the US. THen we wouldn't have to worry about these things.
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#9 of 141 Old 11-11-2007, 10:09 PM
 
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janellesmommy,

Sad, and mostly true except it assumes our children will be heterosexual.

Jen

---

Some good resources explaining how circumcision drastically impacts normal sex, here are some resources for anyone who's interested:

How Male Circumcision May Be Affecting Your Love Life
by Dr. Christine Northrup


The Prepuce, Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9DoCn3gATE

The Prepuce, Part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ps1dkbcOKfA

The Lost List:
http://www.norm.org/lost.html

The Three Zones of Penile Skin:
http://www.foreskin.org/3zones-c.htm
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#10 of 141 Old 11-11-2007, 10:11 PM
 
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This is a really weird thread! I would just support your daughter to have a healthy sex life with whoever she falls in love with - man, woman, circ'ed or not. Sheesh.

Peaceful mama to three blissfully-birthed and incredible small people: dd10, dd7 and ds5. Always awed and so thankful to be a midwife.
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#11 of 141 Old 11-11-2007, 10:25 PM
 
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I never thought about that...

Married to Michael and Mother of Jake 9, Jillianne 7, Jensen 5, Jacen 4. I've got severe osteoporosis, a fractured hip and chronic pain-so please be patient with me! Pagan,Crocheter,Reader,Homeschooler- that's me in a nutshell.

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#12 of 141 Old 11-11-2007, 10:26 PM
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But your ds might be gay, and might have a circumcised partner. Just a thought.

If he is heterosexual, his female partner might have had an episiotomy, which is genital cutting, too.

"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
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#13 of 141 Old 11-11-2007, 11:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by phreedom View Post
I can't honestly say I've thought that far ahead...FWIW my DH is circumcised and our sex life is just fine. Of course neither one of us knows the alternative...but I hope no one feels sorry for me.

I'm NOT FOR circumcison...I'm just saying. Any future sons we have will NOT be getting circumcised.
But see...that's the "just fine" thing that many people use to justify it (and luckily you are not). People will circ their boys and say they're "just fine" or choose not to bf and say they turned out "just fine" but lots of times they DON'T turn out "just fine"...they just don't know that the child has decreased sexual sensitivity, they think it's normal and "just fine"...they don't know that their child getting sick 6 times a year is not normal and is really not "just fine" (btw, not saying ALL babies not bf get sick that often...you know what I mean lol). Therea re a lot of "just fine" excuses in parenting, but what they think is "just fine" is actually NOT "just fine" in comparison.

But I am glad if the two fo you are happy - clearly you cannot change the past, only the future, and make the best of the present.

- Emy . Single mom to DS nut.gif Ezra (15.12.05), angel2.gif Thames (reincarnated 18.04.08) and DD rainbow1284.gif babyf.gif Allora (11.02.11) and dog2.gif Hoppylactivist.gif  novaxnocirc.gif  waterbirth.jpg fambedsingle2.gif bfinfant.giffemalesling.GIFcd.gif

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#14 of 141 Old 11-11-2007, 11:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by janellesmommy View Post
This occurred to me today: My son will enjoy a normal sex life because he is intact. My daughter is not guaranteed a normal sex life because her husband may be circumcised.
It never occurred yo me that there was a big difference(for the woman) when it comes to sex with an intact versus Circ'd man, care to enlighten me? Dh is intact btw so I may just be clueless since it's been so long since I was with a circ man.
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#15 of 141 Old 11-11-2007, 11:55 PM
 
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It never occurred yo me that there was a big difference(for the woman) when it comes to sex with an intact versus Circ'd man, care to enlighten me? Dh is intact btw so I may just be clueless since it's been so long since I was with a circ man.
More lubrication, there's the whole gliding effect of the foreskin. In my experience, the one intact guy I was with was REALLY good and now taht I think back, I think it was the foreskin....but I haven't been with enough guys intact and circ'd to really be able to compare it. lol

- Emy . Single mom to DS nut.gif Ezra (15.12.05), angel2.gif Thames (reincarnated 18.04.08) and DD rainbow1284.gif babyf.gif Allora (11.02.11) and dog2.gif Hoppylactivist.gif  novaxnocirc.gif  waterbirth.jpg fambedsingle2.gif bfinfant.giffemalesling.GIFcd.gif

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#16 of 141 Old 11-11-2007, 11:58 PM
 
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I wouldn't worry about it. I mean, one doesn't even need to have a penis involved at all to have a normal sex life let alone a foreskin. I think there are plenty of people out here with perfectly fulfilling fantastic sex lives without foreskins involved.


ETA: There is just so much more to fulfilling sex than any sort of physical characteristic.
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#17 of 141 Old 11-12-2007, 01:26 AM
 
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ooooh, the creeps come out at night.
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#18 of 141 Old 11-12-2007, 01:29 AM
 
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I thought about that yesterday. I had only had very comfortable sex once. It has always been rough feeling. That one time was with a half circed male. Don't know what the story was, but just the tip was gone. He had plenty of skin left to retract. I wish dh was intact.

:CLC,Doula :Mama to 2
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#19 of 141 Old 11-12-2007, 01:29 AM
 
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DH not having a foreskin brought our sex life to a halt after I birthed an 11 lb baby! Sex was always uncomfortable & made me sore for a day or so, but it was unbearably painful after baby. Now that he is restoring, it is 100x better! Interesting thread...

Amanda: Christian, wife to musician DH since 2002, mom to intact & vax free "monkey" DS1 since 12/21/06, and "lovey" DS2 5/17/10! WINNER OF THE GOLDEN BIRTH STOOL, APRIL 2010 DDC!
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#20 of 141 Old 11-12-2007, 01:35 AM
 
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ooooh, the creeps come out at night.
huh?

I think its a huge leap to say that you (general) might be having uncomfortable sex and therefore it's something to worry about for your daughter! There are just so many other variables that could come into play.
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#21 of 141 Old 11-12-2007, 01:38 AM
 
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I wouldn't worry about it. I mean, one doesn't even need to have a penis involved at all to have a normal sex life let alone a foreskin. I think there are plenty of people out here with perfectly fulfilling fantastic sex lives without foreskins involved.
:

Peaceful mama to three blissfully-birthed and incredible small people: dd10, dd7 and ds5. Always awed and so thankful to be a midwife.
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#22 of 141 Old 11-12-2007, 03:13 AM
 
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Originally Posted by janellesmommy View Post
This occurred to me today: My son will enjoy a normal sex life because he is intact. My daughter is not guaranteed a normal sex life because her husband may be circumcised.
Has your daughter seen your sons intact penis? Because, honestly, I'd imagine that she'll grow up knowing the "intact" version is the norm, since her baby brother is intact. So really, the way I see it, by your son being intact, you actually INCREASE the likelihood of her being with an intact man, IMHO.
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#23 of 141 Old 11-12-2007, 03:26 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Has your daughter seen your sons intact penis? Because, honestly, I'd imagine that she'll grow up knowing the "intact" version is the norm, since her baby brother is intact. So really, the way I see it, by your son being intact, you actually INCREASE the likelihood of her being with an intact man, IMHO.
She definitely will know about that, but I imagine she will fall in love with her soulmate, and hopefully he wil be intact, but it won't be something she can choose.
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#24 of 141 Old 11-12-2007, 03:38 AM
 
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Your daughter is 4 yo and you're sad about her future sex life?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????

Creepy.

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#25 of 141 Old 11-12-2007, 04:19 AM
 
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Your daughter is 4 yo and you're sad about her future sex life?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????

Creepy.
You know, people say the same thing when intactivists explain the sexual benefits of leaving boys intact. They think, "He's a baby! Who cares?" We're so focused on our children being small sometimes we forget that they're going to grow up and be autonomous adults. The OP isn't thinking about her daughter having sex, she just realized that given our culture and past circumcision rates it's fairly likely that her future partner(s) will be cut...and that means her daughter may essentially be 'stuck with' substandard sex.

Jen
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#26 of 141 Old 11-12-2007, 05:14 AM
 
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I think there are plenty of people out here with perfectly fulfilling fantastic sex lives without foreskins involved.
Circumcised women in Africa are adamant that their sex lives are very fulfilling too, and cite the intimacy of the act as the important thing as well.

I hope my children have intact partners.
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#27 of 141 Old 11-12-2007, 06:02 AM
 
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I really could care less, honestly. I've had both types of partners, ended up marrying an 'intact' european man, but i can safely say there was no reason for my mom to feel sad for me when I was with my circumcised partners. And to be brutally honest, before I became Anti-Circ - I preferred my sex life with the Circ'd men : Sorry to burst that bubble there.

I'm in the opposite boat - I'll be the one trying to bite my tongue if my daughters come home with a european man (or even a man at all ). Penis aside, they're a lot of work compared to the other men I've dated. : Between the culture clashes and 'where to live' neverending argument, as well as trying NOT to insult each other everytime we encounter a difference that we can't understand.....I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

Besides, the circ rate in Canada is only 18%. I'd say her odds are pretty good.
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#28 of 141 Old 11-12-2007, 06:21 AM
 
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Circumcised women in Africa are adamant that their sex lives are very fulfilling too, and cite the intimacy of the act as the important thing as well.
And non-circumcised women in North America, with intact male partners say the same thing (my point being, that offering up counter-examples is sort of fallacious in light of the specificity of the thread subject). I understand your argument. I also think that sexism plays a big role in making women feel as if they need to say they enjoy sex with men when they don't. This happens in so many varying circumstances. Women generally do not achieve orgasm without clitoral stimulation at least at some point. So it is simply not the role of the penis (intact or not) to exclusively be the source of fulfilling and satisfying sex in a woman's physiological, emotional, psychological, or spiritual experience.
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#29 of 141 Old 11-12-2007, 06:26 AM
 
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Between the culture clashes and 'where to live' neverending argument, as well as trying NOT to insult each other everytime we encounter a difference that we can't understand.....I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
Oh come now...doesn't that happen with everyone we date at some point?
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#30 of 141 Old 11-12-2007, 08:22 AM
 
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And non-circumcised women in North America, with intact male partners say the same thing (my point being, that offering up counter-examples is sort of fallacious in light of the specificity of the thread subject). I understand your argument. I also think that sexism plays a big role in making women feel as if they need to say they enjoy sex with men when they don't. This happens in so many varying circumstances. Women generally do not achieve orgasm without clitoral stimulation at least at some point. So it is simply not the role of the penis (intact or not) to exclusively be the source of fulfilling and satisfying sex in a woman's physiological, emotional, psychological, or spiritual experience.
Plenty of women DO achieve orgasm without clitoral stimulation. Have you read the recent medical studies which isolated nerve impulses during orgasm in circumcised women? It showed that the sensory experience which leads to orgasm through clitoral stimulation is indeed seen in women with no clitoris. Amazing. Then, on the other hand, many women who have chosen to have their foreskin removed say it enhances clitoral stimulation. In this case anecdotes are useless because everyone's experience is different and like you said, it's not just the physical side of it which is important.

However, my original point was to bring focus to a statement which was dismissive of the OP's concern, imo. It was also slightly sexist, but I will admit that I'm probably (hopefully) reading it the wrong way. I fully accept that not many people would even realize it's sexist because of the cultural conditioning which attributes foreskins only to males. Making sweeping statements which exclude one sex, when the excluded sex is anatomically (or otherwise) worthy of being included, isn't something I tolerate. By your linking of the penis with the statement "let alone a foreskin" you ignored the clitoral foreskin completely. And I don't know about you, but I'm pretty fond of mine. I don't like it to be ignored when we're talking about human rights issues, and I don't think it's a human rights issue which should be minimized. I certainly wouldn't want my foreskin to be cut off, and I wouldn't want my son's future wife to go through that agony either.

Yes I know, I know, completely fallacious when considering the specificity of the thread subject.
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