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#1 of 17 Old 11-17-2007, 08:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
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So, I just got back from a play date with a group of students my husband goes to school with. Most everyone had left, except for us and two other families. We were sitting around enjoying the cool weather and chatting when one of the moms said out of the blue, "so who here circumcised?" I was the only one who's son was intact : They started talking about how "it was such a hard decision" and "it's really a personal choice" and all that other crap. One of the moms even said "I just don't like how it looks" then the dad chimed in "yeah, and we just get pleasure out of mutilating babies" then they all laughed and said that those were their favorite responses whenever people asked them why they did it!! : Meanwhile, I'm sitting there fuming and just wanting to go off on these people! But I thought, the damage is already done. What good would it do to tell them what a horrible thing they did now? They asked me my stance on it, and I said "I don't feel I have any right to lop off a part of my child's genitals." Then we left. I felt like I was going to throw up. I will never go to that play group again if those people are there. I just don't think I could ever look them in the eye again. I'm thoroughly disgusted. Would you have told them off...or, I mean...tried to educate them? Is there any use in doing that if they've already mutilated their sons? Did I do the right thing? I'm just very upset about this.

Enjoying life with DH since 05/04 and our two boys Oliver 02/07 and Theodore 07/10 
        
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#2 of 17 Old 11-17-2007, 08:45 PM
 
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You did so much by just stating what your stand was! Good for you. Obviously, if the man is saying that, they've been getting a hard time from family/friends. People do change and when we know better, we do better. I wouldn't stop being friends with people over this issue. When we turn someone on to intactivism who formerly cut, they are often the people with the strongest voices (like a reformed drinker or smoker).

You should be proud, not upset.
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#3 of 17 Old 11-17-2007, 08:49 PM
 
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You did so much by just stating what your stand was! Good for you.
ITA. How horrible to be put in that situation, though!

Homeschooling mom of 2 rambunctious, loving, spectacular boys, wife to an incredible man who has been my best friend on this journey <3

 

 

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#4 of 17 Old 11-17-2007, 08:54 PM
 
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Dontya just love how they have no qualms about calling your son's penis dirty and ugly. Wonder how they would have taken you saying you think circumcised penises look gross with their sons there to hear : SUre, the boys might not be able to understand now, but I have no doubt people like this would say it no matter what age the boys around them.

"Parents are simply trustees; they do not own the bodies of their children"-Norm Cohen  Martial arts instructor intactlact.gifhomebirth.jpgnak.gif and mom to 4: DD1 (1/05) DS (7/06) DD2 (5/08) DD3 (2/11)
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#5 of 17 Old 11-17-2007, 09:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks so much for the support mamas. I really appreciate it. Carriebft, you're totally right. I felt so hurt when they said that they didn't like how an intact penis looked, even if it was in a joking manner.

Enjoying life with DH since 05/04 and our two boys Oliver 02/07 and Theodore 07/10 
        
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#6 of 17 Old 11-17-2007, 09:11 PM
 
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I think you did right, you stated your stance and left em to it. No confrontation etc which may have just upset you even more.
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#7 of 17 Old 11-18-2007, 02:22 AM
 
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Oh my word, how could anyone joke about something so horrible?? I think you did well! I might have been upset to even speak.
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#8 of 17 Old 11-18-2007, 02:24 AM
 
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then the dad chimed in "yeah, and we just get pleasure out of mutilating babies" then they all laughed and said that those were their favorite responses whenever people asked them why they did it!!
: : :
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#9 of 17 Old 11-18-2007, 04:15 AM
 
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"I don't feel I have any right to lop off a part of my child's genitals." Then we left.
That is a very good responce to have come up with on the spur of the momment. You did great, they were horrible.

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#10 of 17 Old 11-18-2007, 06:32 AM
 
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I think you did a great job. Your statement will probably make at least some of those parents think about what they did.

This is where we start with the hard core pro-circs - letting them know that there are many, many people who think it is wrong to cut off a healthy part of someone else's body (duh).

Crazy, isn't it? Americans are so culturally conditioned that they think amputating someone else's healthy body part is OK.
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#11 of 17 Old 11-18-2007, 07:46 AM
 
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I think you did just fine, Ollie's mom! You know, I wouldn't be surprised if you had some 'observers' at next play date who just happen to casually check out your son if you diaper him. Be prepared for them to ask if your hubby is circumcised!
My son is now 27....and intact. His father was circumcised, but we had no problem agreeing not to cut our boy.
Now I'm divorced, and my fiance' is intact.
So take it from someone who knows, the intact adult penis is not gross, disgusting, or unsightly.
How nice to see the support for keeping our sons intact is still going strong
Keep up the good work, parents!
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#12 of 17 Old 11-18-2007, 10:31 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks Mamas! The crazy thing is, is that those were the only two moms who cut their sons. I know for a fact that all of the other boys in the play group are intact, because we've had conversations in the past about the subject...which, coincidentally, the two moms who cut their sons were not there at that time. They must have not been sure about my son, and wanted to see if I had gone to the dark side. Very bizarre when I think about it. There's a part of me that is very disgusted and angry about what they did...and wants to make them feel bad about it. However, I'm sure from what they said in our short conversation, they already do feel bad, and that part of me feels really sorry for them. So what should I do/say at the next play group should this happen to come up again? Would this be the time to start educating them? Where do I even start?

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#13 of 17 Old 11-18-2007, 10:49 AM
 
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That has happened to me before (homeschool group) and I was the only one with an intact son there at the time. I just stated facts as calmly as I could. I was so upset though and I lost so much respect for those people.

One of the moms (she had two circed boys already) did have another boy after that and she left him intact!!!!!!!

OUR DAUGHTERS ARE PROTECTED SHOULDN'T OUR SONS BE TOO! :
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#14 of 17 Old 11-18-2007, 02:10 PM
 
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I think you did great in the situation.

However, I think that if someone is in a similar situation and they have already decided they are going to completely cut ties with those people, then if they are comfortable they should definitely tell them in very specific terms what they think of circumcision, and what they think of people who ridicule the pain of infants going through circumcision. I think a few more people need to hear that this practice is horrible and digusting, and that a large number of their friends and family are completely offput by it. Peer opinion is a very strong thing, even among adults, and if these people who think circumcision is a big joke can hear how we really feel, then the idea that circumcision is not a joke, or a parents choice might get through to them.

Go out with a bang, you know? If you plan to never see them again, give them a huge piece of your mind. Just stop short of slander or assault, so like don't threaten them bodily or call them really mean words. (Even though you might want to.)

I want to emphasize that I am not talking about showing anger to regretful parents. In my opinion, there is not even a comparison between parents who were doing their best, chose circ, and then regretted it, and parents who knew from the start there is no reason to do it, and that they put their newborn through a risky surgery just for looks. I would never give my true opinion of circumcision to an already regretful parent.

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#15 of 17 Old 11-18-2007, 04:20 PM
 
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However, I'm sure from what they said in our short conversation, they already do feel bad, and that part of me feels really sorry for them. So what should I do/say at the next play group should this happen to come up again? Would this be the time to start educating them? Where do I even start?
If you think they are open to it, I would definitely offer them information. You can let them know that some of the information is new (i.e., the study showing that circumcision cuts off the most sensitive parts of the penis), and you can also let them know that doctors dont' give out the other, relevant information, so parents often consent to have their sons cut without really understanding what is going to happen/the repercussions...

I would give them an 'out', you know? It might make it easier to accept the facts about circumcision if you can blame the doctors for not informing you (and I do think doctors are largely culpable).
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#16 of 17 Old 11-18-2007, 08:24 PM
 
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The crazy thing is, is that those were the only two moms who cut their sons. I know for a fact that all of the other boys in the play group are intact, because we've had conversations in the past about the subject...which, coincidentally, the two moms who cut their sons were not there at that time.
They may feel very alone and out numbered most of the time. Especially if one of the reasons they choose to circ was so their boys would be normal and fit in. They have now discovered that instead their boys are the odd men out and this was a rare opportunity to be in the majority for a change.

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#17 of 17 Old 11-19-2007, 04:24 AM
 
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"I'm sure from what they said in our short conversation, they already do feel bad, and that part of me feels really sorry for them. So what should I do/say at the next play group should this happen to come up again? Would this be the time to start educating them? Where do I even start?"

I applaud you for seeing into the situation from the other parents' point of view:
concern for their sons' well-being, curiosity, and openness to asking questions...so my reply to you, Ollie's Mom is ---> you don't need to wait for a 'next time they ask'
You might want to obtain some informative pamphlets through NoCirc and keep them handy in your purse for the next playdate.
--Or-- jot down nocirc's website and let them follow through.
At a quiet moment (yeah, I know they are rare!) ask one of the moms if she would like some printed information from a solid knowledgeable resourse. See if she's open to that, and give her the information to look over at her leisure.
You won't be blaming, punishing, or judging....just sharing 'real' information from the best resource ever. Who knows? You might have a really good discussion with either one of the moms, or both.
If she declines further information, heck, keep it handy for situations like this.
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