Help me without Flaming me - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 58 Old 11-20-2007, 02:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
sg784's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: in the woods
Posts: 1,194
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
None of this : please!

Heres the short story. Of all the things I have been brought up to believe, of all the things I have learned and changed my opinions on, here, and elsewhere, I still do not have any opinion about circ. I dont understand why people do it, although i have heard and considered their reasons, nor do i understand why its such a big deal if it IS done although i have heard and considered their reasons.

:

I just....dont thinks its a big deal either way. I have thought about it and thought about it and gone to all the websites and tried to convince myself one way or another and Im still not convinced either way. I was secretly hoping for a girl, because well, then, I wouldnt have to deal with the issue right? We found out its a boy and DF asked me right away "How are we going to get him, you know, if we have him at home"

It stunned me. I didnt know he had even considered it, I have never talked about it with him, and I didnt know he had any opinion either way. (he is circ'd by the way)

I went on to say that I wasnt sure, because Im pretty sure its a cosmetic surgery and ins wont cover cosmetic surgery. Its not medically indicated etc. I then started ratteling off all the reasons i have read on why not to do it.

We talked about reasons why he would prefer it, why those reasons are really lame in all actuallity, we talked about drs botching up circs, etc, "why would I let an OB cut my son if i dont want him to come near me while im PG"? etc etc.

He got a little defensive and I just kinda left it at I dont know enough about it, and any decision that involves our kids should be informed, right?

He concluded with, if we could find "an old jewish dr who has done 10thousand of them" we should do it.

I really dont think circ is necessary, but I dont feel strongly enough about it to say "NO. and THATS FINAL"

Help me?
Please dont direct me to websites with scare tactics, please dont flame me, help me make an informed, RIGHT decision.

Im a broc1.giflovinghippie.giffly-by-nursing2.gifcd.gif  novaxnocirc.gif
sg784 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 of 58 Old 11-20-2007, 02:20 PM
 
Papai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,320
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Let's start with some basics:

1) Do you believe it's okay to permanently alter someone else's body without their consent?

2) Would you ever remove the clitoral hood, aka female foreskin, of your daughter?

3) Are you willing to risk Meatal stenosis (10 percent), penile adhesions (70 percent), glans amputation, penile inflammation, urine retention and other circ complications?

4) Do you know what the foreskin is and how it functions?
Papai is offline  
#3 of 58 Old 11-20-2007, 02:21 PM
 
MCatLvrMom2A&X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: With Vin Diesel ;) YUMMMM
Posts: 14,209
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Have you watched the video?

I really dont know were to start other than just say simply that it is your sons body to do with as he wants so it isnt up to you to cut parts off that as you say have no reason to be cut off.

 
SAHMlady.gifread.giflovin' trekkie.giffan intactivist.gifwinner.jpg to loveeyes.gifenergy.gifDD 10/00 & superhero.gifmoon.gifDS 10/04 ribbonpb.gifIf your ds is intact, keep him safe, visit the Case Against Circ forumnocirc.gifCirc, a personal choice, Your sonsyes.gifbrokenheart.gif11/98brokenheart.gif6/99ribbonbrown.gifanti-tobaccoribbonyellow.gifThyroid cancer survivor. With cat.gif& goldfish.gif & (Boxer)dog2.gif wishing 4 whale.gif&ribbonwhite.gifsigncirc1.gifselectivevax.gifdelayedvax.gif

MCatLvrMom2A&X is offline  
#4 of 58 Old 11-20-2007, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
sg784's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: in the woods
Posts: 1,194
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
1) Do you believe it's okay to permanently alter someone else's body without their consent?

No

2) Would you ever remove the clitoral hood, aka female foreskin, of your daughter?
No

3) Are you willing to risk Meatal stenosis (10 percent), penile adhesions (70 percent), glans amputation, penile inflammation, urine retention and other circ complications?No

4) Do you know what the foreskin is and how it functions?
um...I think so: Is there something that is commonly unknown that I should be educated about?

Im a broc1.giflovinghippie.giffly-by-nursing2.gifcd.gif  novaxnocirc.gif
sg784 is offline  
#5 of 58 Old 11-20-2007, 02:23 PM
 
LavenderMae's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: where I write my own posts!
Posts: 12,213
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The default is leaving children as they are born. So to cut of your child's healthy body part you need have a pretty damn good reason, circumcision is purely cosmetic. And bottom line it's not your foreskin, it's not your husband's foreskin and it should not even be a decision you can make for your child.
The stickies at the top of this forum have tons of excellent information in them, I'd start there.

OUR DAUGHTERS ARE PROTECTED SHOULDN'T OUR SONS BE TOO! :
LavenderMae is offline  
#6 of 58 Old 11-20-2007, 02:26 PM
 
MaterPrimaePuellae's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,495
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I was in exactly for position a year ago; thankfully, I did have a girl. I have now decided that if I do have a boy, I will not have him circumcised. My reasoning is something like this: Once it's done, it can't really be undone (I know people do the foreskin restoration, but...), and DS could always have it done himself when he is older (if he wants to). I see no reason *at all* to dothis to a baby when the boy can decide himself as an adolescent or adult.
I feel exactly the same way about piercing little girls' ears.

Also, two little boys I know have had to be have surgery as toddlers to correct poorly done circumcisions, and to me this seems like a bad sign.


It's weird that men are sensitive about this-- I talked about this briefly with my husband and was surprised by how little he knew about circumcision. He had only seen on intact penis in his life (which.. is more than i have seen!) Anyway, he seemed to respond well to an argument along the lines of, "It's expensive, risky, painful, and unnecessary, and *expensive*" Also, knowing the two little boys who had to have surgery helped.

I hope that helps!

Aspiring to 1 Thessalonians 4:11.Wife to Dh, 2004. Mother to DD 3/07.
So thankful for our healthy baby boy, born Easter morning, 2010!
MaterPrimaePuellae is offline  
#7 of 58 Old 11-20-2007, 02:27 PM
 
SammyJr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The bible belt of Illinois
Posts: 326
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Are you aware of the penile sensitivity study?

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi...X.2006.06685.x

Cut men lose a lot of sensation.
SammyJr is offline  
#8 of 58 Old 11-20-2007, 02:29 PM
 
Papai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,320
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sg784 View Post
1) Do you believe it's okay to permanently alter someone else's body without their consent?

No

2) Would you ever remove the clitoral hood, aka female foreskin, of your daughter?
No

3) Are you willing to risk Meatal stenosis (10 percent), penile adhesions (70 percent), glans amputation, penile inflammation, urine retention and other circ complications?No

4) Do you know what the foreskin is and how it functions?
um...I think so: Is there something that is commonly unknown that I should be educated about?

It seems to me that you're already NOT for circing.

But as for the foreskin, the common misconception is that it's "just excess skin". No. It allows for skin mobility of the penis during erections. If you have a long-sleeved shirt, grab the end of the sleeve into your fist and withdraw your inward a bit. With your arm inside your shirt a bit and with the end of the sleeve in your fist, this simulates the flaccid intact penis. The skin appears to be excessive but it's not. If you stretch your arm out to simulate an erection, you see that skin comes in handy. Now imagine that 30-50 percent of that skin was removed and sutured together. It's probably be a tight fit, wouldn't it? I hope what I said made sense, if not, someone else can give you a better analogy.

For a little more on what I'm taling about in regard to removing the skin and suturing it together, read this lady's story where her son's skin had difficulty being put back together: http://www.genitalintegrity.net/blou...n-almost-died/

Most people don't realize that there is no "excessive" skin, you can't just cut off the tip. It's all one skin, that is cut, and the remaining skin is then stitched together.
Papai is offline  
#9 of 58 Old 11-20-2007, 02:29 PM
 
MCatLvrMom2A&X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: With Vin Diesel ;) YUMMMM
Posts: 14,209
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The function of the foreskin is to protect the glans so that it keeps its sensitivity. Just like the clitoral hood protects the nerve bundle in the clit.

The foreskins gliding action prevents the loss of moisture that is a very common complaint with circed sex. Dry sex is often caused by the cired penis letting the vaginal moisture out.

The foreskin bunching up actually stimulates the female G spot helping to produce a vaginal orgasim or G spot orgasim that most woman dont have. Because there is nothing there to stimulate the G spot.

The penis was not ment to rub against the vaginal walls as it does when it is circed. It was ment to glide inside it's own skin. So the friction that is felt when having sex with a circed penis is not how it should be.

The frenulum the part under the penis that looks like the area under you tounge is supposed to be a very sensitive area. Unfortunatly when circ is done it is either damaged or totally destroyed. So that part of pleasure a man should feel is forever gone.

 
SAHMlady.gifread.giflovin' trekkie.giffan intactivist.gifwinner.jpg to loveeyes.gifenergy.gifDD 10/00 & superhero.gifmoon.gifDS 10/04 ribbonpb.gifIf your ds is intact, keep him safe, visit the Case Against Circ forumnocirc.gifCirc, a personal choice, Your sonsyes.gifbrokenheart.gif11/98brokenheart.gif6/99ribbonbrown.gifanti-tobaccoribbonyellow.gifThyroid cancer survivor. With cat.gif& goldfish.gif & (Boxer)dog2.gif wishing 4 whale.gif&ribbonwhite.gifsigncirc1.gifselectivevax.gifdelayedvax.gif

MCatLvrMom2A&X is offline  
#10 of 58 Old 11-20-2007, 02:32 PM
 
spewie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Colorado
Posts: 278
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My dh and I felt almost the same way you did when we were pg with #1. I couldn't see any good reason TO do it, but I didn't think it mattered that much if we did. We could not decide. At first we thought we would wait and get it done later if we wanted to. We were sitting in the OBs office the day my water broke and dh said "we're not gonna do it, are we?" and I said "nope." We just knew. And I am SO THANKFUL we made the right decision with #1 because it would be harder to leave #2 and #3 intact if #1 was cut.

Good luck

ETA: I no longer think that "it doesn't matter" I get really sad when those close to me choose to circ
spewie is offline  
#11 of 58 Old 11-20-2007, 02:40 PM
 
Mrs-Mama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Newport News, VA
Posts: 2,491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Congrats on not caving immediately to "let's circ him", and I agree with Papai that it sounds like you're for leaving him intact...just can't figure out why you feel that way.

I can relate. When I was PG, I sometimes hoped for a girl so that there would be no decision to be made. DH is intact so I figured he would want to leave our son intact, but I knew that my family would have an absolute fit (not that it should have mattered). Well, we discussed it a bit and DH said that he didn't see any reason to do it. I had this deep down feeling that I just couldn't send off my newborn baby to have a piece of his penis cut off...just couldn't justify the pain to myself. We agreed not to do it, but I kept researching because I wanted to know more. That's when I found MDC and began lurking on this forum.

Even after my son's birth, I answered questions from my family with "There's no medical reason to do it" and for us "There is no religious reason to do it" since we're Christian (hope I'm allowed to say that). I was still ambivalent about what others did. Now, though, I consider myself to be an intactivist. The more I read, the more convinced I am that not only did we do absolutely the right thing but that circing is absolutely wrong.

You can never un-circ once it's done. Keep reading/researching, and I think that you will find yourself becoming more and more opinionated on the subject.

Wife to J, SAHM to W (03/06) ribboncesarean.gif at 32w4d, C (10/08) ribboncesarean.gif, and H (02/11) ribboncesarean.gif

Mrs-Mama is offline  
#12 of 58 Old 11-20-2007, 03:01 PM
 
13Sandals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: north of NY
Posts: 1,570
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I know I believed most of my life and so did my DH until I educated him that circumcising was 'just a little snip' of useless, extra skin - and if this is what you've been told all your life, it certainly does seem outrageous for this huge debate! Once I realized that the foreskin was an organ and that the glans is supposed to be an 'internal' organ, protected by the foreskin, I was able to accept that what we'd been told all our lives was a lie.

Understandably, its much harder for a man whose been circumcised to process that a functioning part of his genitalia was sliced off at birth, for no good reason, or, for reasons that just haven't proven themselves.
13Sandals is offline  
#13 of 58 Old 11-20-2007, 03:21 PM
 
jandc_hammond's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 247
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I can't see welcoming a helpless newborn baby into the world, then inflicting unnecessary pain on him. Did you know that the majority of circs are performend without proper anesthesia? Aside from that, it's risky to use any type of anesthesia on small babies, because you can't predict dangerous adverse reactions. And circumcision has also been linked with breastfeeding failure and poor maternal-infant bonding (http://www.cirp.org/library/birth/). Keep researching...there's lots of good info out there.
jandc_hammond is offline  
#14 of 58 Old 11-20-2007, 03:22 PM
 
amandaleigh37's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,697
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I felt the same way you did when I was pregnant. We ended up getting it done, and now it is my biggest regret. I wish someone would have convinced me then. It seems so obvious and clear to me now... I don't know why I didn't see it sooner

But just ask yourself, are you comfortable removing a part of your son's body if you "don't feel strongly about it either way"? You can always do it later... Please don't make the mistake I did. Once it's done, you can't take it back. You don't even have to decide this right now. You can decide to take your son home intact and make a decision in the weeks after he's born... I am certain if I would have done this, I would have never had it done. And then I wouldn't be dealing with the horrible guilt I have now

Amanda , mama to my two boys: N (10/06) and : A (7/09)
amandaleigh37 is offline  
#15 of 58 Old 11-20-2007, 03:36 PM
 
Quirky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Princeton, NJ
Posts: 11,770
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCatLvrMom2A&X
The function of the foreskin is to protect the glans so that it keeps its sensitivity. Just like the clitoral hood protects the nerve bundle in the clit.
Although ITA with the rest of your post, I disagree with this part. In fact, the foreskin, not the glans, is the most sensitive part of the penis. The glans is relatively insensitive, and has only about the sensitivity of the heel of the foot. Yes, the glans in the intact penis is more sensitive than the glans in the circed penis, but the foreskin is where the action is: the four most sensitive parts of the penis are in the foreskin. The glans is only the most sensitive part left on the circed penis. :

Here is a site based on research published in the British Journal of Urology that explains it really well:

http://research.cirp.org/index-e.html

See especially this page:

http://research.cirp.org/func1.html

Quote:
FUNCTION OF THE FORESKIN

The foreskin occupies a prominent position on an important organ. The foreskin’s location and structure indicate that it is the most important sensory tissue of the penis. Its persistence over millions of years suggests that it has played a role in the propagation of the species.

A well-integrated organ

Structurally, the penis is highly integrated. The glans, foreskin and skin of the penile shaft function as a single unit, not as a collection of separate parts with entirely different functions. The functions of the glans and foreskin are similar, and overlapping, but come fully into their own at different times during intercourse.

Simple sensations

The outer surface of the foreskin is specialized to detect feather-light touch and other sensations, including painful ones. The infamous “zipper injury” is an extreme example of the sort of damage the outer skin was designed to detect and prevent, long before the zipper posed a threat to the uninitiated.

Compared with the true (outer) skin of the foreskin, the glans is only feebly sensitive to light touch, pain, heat and cold. This is part of the reason we call the foreskin the primary sensory tissue of the penis. Without the foreskin, the end of the penis is numb to a host of sensations that tell the owner whether one of his most prized organs is in good company, or should move to safety.

Come visit the NEW QuirkyBaby website -- earn QB Bucks rewards points for purchases, reviews, referrals, and more! Free US shipping on great brands of baby slings and carriers and FREE BabyLegs or babywearing mirror on orders of $100+. Take the QB Quiz for personalized advice!

Quirky is offline  
#16 of 58 Old 11-20-2007, 03:45 PM
 
jmmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 312
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jandc_hammond View Post
I can't see welcoming a helpless newborn baby into the world, then inflicting unnecessary pain on him. Did you know that the majority of circs are performend without proper anesthesia? Aside from that, it's risky to use any type of anesthesia on small babies, because you can't predict dangerous adverse reactions. And circumcision has also been linked with breastfeeding failure and poor maternal-infant bonding (http://www.cirp.org/library/birth/). Keep researching...there's lots of good info out there.
:

i was glad that insurance made the decision for us before ds was born, as i felt a lot like you did. after he was born i realized just how incredibly cruel it is to circumsize newborn boys - i think it is absolutely unjustifiable. also, the foreskin makes a BIG difference during sex, whether you and your husband are aware of this or not.
jmmom is offline  
#17 of 58 Old 11-20-2007, 03:45 PM
 
MCatLvrMom2A&X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: With Vin Diesel ;) YUMMMM
Posts: 14,209
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quirky
Although ITA with the rest of your post, I disagree with this part. In fact, the foreskin, not the glans, is the most sensitive part of the penis. The glans is relatively insensitive, and has only about the sensitivity of the heel of the foot. Yes, the glans in the intact penis is more sensitive than the glans in the circed penis, but the foreskin is where the action is: the four most sensitive parts of the penis are in the foreskin. The glans is only the most sensitive part left on the circed penis.
Yes the foreskin is the most sensitive but it protects the glans to keep it more sensitive than the circed glans that is what I ment.

Wasnt saying that the glans was like the clitoral nerve bundle in the sense that it was as sensitive as the nerve bundle. That is clear as mudd I should have phrased it different in my OP

 
SAHMlady.gifread.giflovin' trekkie.giffan intactivist.gifwinner.jpg to loveeyes.gifenergy.gifDD 10/00 & superhero.gifmoon.gifDS 10/04 ribbonpb.gifIf your ds is intact, keep him safe, visit the Case Against Circ forumnocirc.gifCirc, a personal choice, Your sonsyes.gifbrokenheart.gif11/98brokenheart.gif6/99ribbonbrown.gifanti-tobaccoribbonyellow.gifThyroid cancer survivor. With cat.gif& goldfish.gif & (Boxer)dog2.gif wishing 4 whale.gif&ribbonwhite.gifsigncirc1.gifselectivevax.gifdelayedvax.gif

MCatLvrMom2A&X is offline  
#18 of 58 Old 11-20-2007, 03:55 PM
 
Blu Razzberri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,601
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Good for you mama; for not being afraid to ask for answers! In your original post, you said

Quote:
..."why would I let an OB cut my son if i dont want him to come near me while im PG"?...
and the reason behind not circumcising is very much the same. Doctors are human, they make mistakes. Humans also have greed, and money talks. There is alot of money in circumcision and that's why it's done. (Did you know they use foreskins in some anti-wrinkle cream!!?? Makes you wonder what 'magic ingredient' is in it!).

The other thing is your DF's response


Quote:
...We talked about reasons why he would prefer it, why those reasons are really lame in all actuallity....
and the fact that you recognize his reasons' lack of substance is commendable. It's important to have good reasons to do anything related to your child.

I put together an email for a friend (complete with information and links) about why not to circumcise. If you want a copy for yourself too, PM me with your email address, I'll forward that to you. There are many lies to cover up the truths about circumcising, and exposing those lies is shocking! You'll learn so much from my email.

On a personal note.....Circumcising my son was the single biggest mistake of my life. I had no idea that what I was doing was harmful (not helpful), and I was led to believe that it was best for him. If I can offer you any advice at all, it would be to not direct your questions to the circumcising doctor... they're biast, and they'll tell you whatever you need to hear, as long as the result is you strapping your baby to their table.

WARNING: The comments and opinions expressed above do not necessarily reflect those of the community in which I reside; or those of the internet parenting network.
Blu Razzberri is offline  
#19 of 58 Old 11-20-2007, 04:00 PM
 
nd_deadhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,128
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Sera, I totally understand your concerns.

If you're anything like me, you spend a big part of your pregnancy worrying. Is the baby going to be OK? Will he be healthy? Will there be anything wrong? Particularly with a home birth, I expect you wonder how you might respond if the unthinkable happens, and there IS something wrong with the baby. I know I would have been a basket case if one of my sons had required surgery as an infant - it was hard enough for me when one of them required surgery (for a hernia) at 9 months!

But everything goes as planned. You deliver a perfect, normal, healthy baby boy. You ooh and aah over him - his gorgeous eyes, his cute little nose, his amazing fingers and toes, his ears, his knees - he's perfect in every way. Do you honestly think you will look at his penis and say "Oh GROSS! We need to have THAT fixed right away!" Can you truly imagine handing your normal, healthy, perfect baby to a doctor, to be undressed, strapped to a board, his penis injected with anesthetic (if he's lucky), to have his foreskin cut off?

You've looked at the big picture, and in the grand scheme of things, circumcision doesn't seem like that big a deal. After all, many of the men you know had it done (probably). But when you get down to the details - strapping him to the board, cutting his penis, changing that bloody diaper - I think you will find the courage to take a firm stand.

Best wishes to you.

If the chips are down, the buffalo is empty.

nd_deadhead is offline  
#20 of 58 Old 11-20-2007, 04:02 PM
 
DisplacedYooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 351
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by amandaleigh37 View Post
But just ask yourself, are you comfortable removing a part of your son's body if you "don't feel strongly about it either way"? You can always do it later...
:

We felt the same, no good reason to do it, but no good reason not to do it either. While I was pregnant, we decided that we would leave him as he came out, since we could always get him circumcised later... We were planning a home birth and basically didn't want to go through the hassle of making a doctor's appointment in the middle of the winter during the time when we would all be snuggling up together in bed.

Sometimes I feel very lucky that DH and I are essentially lazy people - if we'd been go-getters, Ben might have ended up cut. But, everything I thought (or didn't think) about circ changed after Ben was born. Looking at his perfect little body, I can't imagine giving him up to have any piece of him cut off. And those thought led me to this board. And now I am a proud intactivist.

Please, leave your son the way he is born. Like many other people in this thread have said, you can always make the appointment later, but my guess is that once you have fallen in love with your baby, you'll realize you don't need to.
DisplacedYooper is offline  
#21 of 58 Old 11-20-2007, 04:03 PM
 
blizzard_babe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Land of Beer and Cheese, baby.
Posts: 4,748
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It sounds like you're where my DH is. He's erring on the "If I don't really know one way or the other, It's best to leave it alone."

It can always be done later if your son wants it; it can never be un-done. Like adding salt to soup... better to err on the side of nothing at the beginning than make a mistake/

Me+DH+DS1+DS2+Dog=me and a house full of guys, which is really just peachy, thanks.
blizzard_babe is offline  
#22 of 58 Old 11-20-2007, 04:08 PM
 
Super Pickle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,680
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Sera,

I have a circumcised son and an intact son, and now, years after the fact, no, it is not that big of a deal. It doesn't really matter that they look a little different from one another, and they both have a pretty good chance of growing up happy with their bodies.

However, at the time of their births, it was a very, very big deal. You know this, because you already have a little girl, but when you have a new baby, he is your world. Every little decision takes on incredible importance in your mind and you believe that everything you do is shaping your child into the person he will become. Looking back on my kids' infancy, I now believe that it's not so much the child, but the mother, who is shaped by those early decisions.

When they ask you whether or not you're going to circumcise your new baby, it's like a test. Are you going to affirm that he is perfect just the way he was created? Are you going to listen to your instinct that is telling you to shield him from senseless violence? Are you going to trust Nature/the Creator? Or are you going to submit to culture's absurdities? Are you going to buy into the mentality that it's proper to cause a child pain now in order to stave off something worse down the road--the same mentality behind crying-it-out, spanking, etc.

Most of those early choices that we make so much of probably don't really matter that much to the child years later. My husband was bottle fed and I was breastfed--could anyone tell the difference? Can you meet a first grader and tell whether she was sleep trained or whether she coslept? Can you guess which of your neighbors were spanked? Probably not. But when you're parenting, every one of your choices reflects who you are deep down, and you should be fully convinced in your own mind of the rightness of everything you do.
Super Pickle is offline  
#23 of 58 Old 11-20-2007, 04:26 PM
 
dbsam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs-Mama View Post
Congrats on not caving immediately to "let's circ him", and I agree with Papai that it sounds like you're for leaving him intact...just can't figure out why you feel that way.
I also wanted to leave my son intact but never educated myself to defend my position the way I should have - the way you are. We did circumcise my son - and I've always regretted it. Last week my husband also said he regrets it. (Which angered me at the time.)

The doctors recommended we have the circ re-done but we decided to leave the damage as is and hope the fact that his circ was 'under-done' - can't think of how to say it - may be a blessing.
dbsam is offline  
#24 of 58 Old 11-20-2007, 04:32 PM
 
dbsam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Pickle View Post
Sera,

I have a circumcised son and an intact son, and now, years after the fact, no, it is not that big of a deal. It doesn't really matter that they look a little different from one another, and they both have a pretty good chance of growing up happy with their bodies.

However, at the time of their births, it was a very, very big deal. You know this, because you already have a little girl, but when you have a new baby, he is your world. Every little decision takes on incredible importance in your mind and you believe that everything you do is shaping your child into the person he will become. Looking back on my kids' infancy, I now believe that it's not so much the child, but the mother, who is shaped by those early decisions.

When they ask you whether or not you're going to circumcise your new baby, it's like a test. Are you going to affirm that he is perfect just the way he was created? Are you going to listen to your instinct that is telling you to shield him from senseless violence? Are you going to trust Nature/the Creator? Or are you going to submit to culture's absurdities? Are you going to buy into the mentality that it's proper to cause a child pain now in order to stave off something worse down the road--the same mentality behind crying-it-out, spanking, etc.

Most of those early choices that we make so much of probably don't really matter that much to the child years later. My husband was bottle fed and I was breastfed--could anyone tell the difference? Can you meet a first grader and tell whether she was sleep trained or whether she coslept? Can you guess which of your neighbors were spanked? Probably not. But when you're parenting, every one of your choices reflects who you are deep down, and you should be fully convinced in your own mind of the rightness of everything you do.
I like the way you said this!
dbsam is offline  
#25 of 58 Old 11-20-2007, 06:02 PM
 
Super Pickle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,680
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks, dbsam!
You're right about not worrrying about the loose circ. It may look strange to you now, but the tighter circs can cause a lot of sexual problems down the road.
Super Pickle is offline  
#26 of 58 Old 11-20-2007, 06:30 PM
 
pdx.mothernurture's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,288
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Pickle View Post
When they ask you whether or not you're going to circumcise your new baby, it's like a test. Are you going to affirm that he is perfect just the way he was created? Are you going to listen to your instinct that is telling you to shield him from senseless violence? Are you going to trust Nature/the Creator? Or are you going to submit to culture's absurdities? Are you going to buy into the mentality that it's proper to cause a child pain now in order to stave off something worse down the road--the same mentality behind crying-it-out, spanking, etc.

Most of those early choices that we make so much of probably don't really matter that much to the child years later. My husband was bottle fed and I was breastfed--could anyone tell the difference? Can you meet a first grader and tell whether she was sleep trained or whether she coslept? Can you guess which of your neighbors were spanked? Probably not. But when you're parenting, every one of your choices reflects who you are deep down, and you should be fully convinced in your own mind of the rightness of everything you do.
Beautiful!

Can I toss this quote into my intactivism blog, please?

Jen
pdx.mothernurture is offline  
#27 of 58 Old 11-20-2007, 07:59 PM
 
Super Pickle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,680
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yeah, thanks!
Super Pickle is offline  
#28 of 58 Old 11-20-2007, 08:11 PM
 
pdx.mothernurture's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,288
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Pickle View Post
Yeah, thanks!
Sweet! There it is.

Jen
pdx.mothernurture is offline  
#29 of 58 Old 11-20-2007, 08:28 PM
 
kallyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: central PA
Posts: 1,508
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Haven't read any replies yet but I wanted to respond.

My husband is circed and he is very very bitter and angry about it. It infuriates him that someone came in without his consent when he was an infant and cut off a part of HIS body that he will never be able to get back. He feels violated, robbed, and angry that he will never experience sex as nature intended.

Anyway, that was not meant to sound angry at you or anything, just explaining how my hubby feels about it. He's actually the one that brought circ up to me and convinced me not to do it if we ever have a son. I just thought it would be good for you to have a male perspective on it, so maybe your babe doesn't have to grow up feeling the same way my hubby does. If he feels strongly about circumcision later in life, he can always get it done at any point if he chooses.

Me love.gif, DH guitar.gif, and DD baby.gif9/27/10!
kallyn is offline  
#30 of 58 Old 11-20-2007, 08:29 PM
 
Roxswood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: U.K.
Posts: 1,010
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Just to add another 2 cents, I am from the UK where circumcision is rare except for members of certain religions. I don't know any men over here that are circumcised, my husband isn't.

But I lived in the USA for 13 months when I was 19 and had two boyfriends and they were both circumcised.

I can honestly say there was a big difference in pleasure for both me and my partner between the intact and the circed ones.

Circumcision leaves the glans looking dry and rough and almost cracked, the skin is thicker and its less sensitive. I found it dry and uncomfortable and frequently got yeast infections and felt sore, I assume from too much friction that nature didn't intend.

In intact men the glans is wet, soft and smooth and shiny, perfect like the mucous membrane its meant to be, not outside skin. Its perfect. Obviously I feel differently to American women in general because intact is normal to me, circumcision makes them look and feel damaged and wrong.
Roxswood is offline  
Reply

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off