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#1 of 13 Old 12-11-2007, 07:43 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I've just been feeling terribly about this.

I have a friend (we became close after she had her baby who is about 1 year younger than my own ds) who had her baby circumcised. I gave her lots of information about why not to do it but she still went ahead and did it. I never really talked to her about it and I figured that it's her baby and all that and I just didn't want to get in her face about it and make a big deal. The information is there and for some reason, it didn't faze her the way it fazed me (in terms of turning me against circumcision). Anyway, she works full-time and we usually communicate via e-mail during the day. Today, she didn't respond to my e-mail until around 4 in the afternoon. She tells me she didn't go to work today because her baby boy had to have surgery. He was basically made to fast from the previous night till the morning when the surgery would take place and she was telling me how no one got any sleep. Now I'm thinking the surgery had something to do with the ear infections he's been having and I'm surprised because I didn't think they were serious enough to have surgery for. Well, no, that was not what the surgery was for. The surgery was to correct a botched circumcision. My heart just sank. The hardest part for me to swallow was that she said something in her e-mail like "I know you're not for it but I'm all for it" and put a smiley. I was just disgusted. I couldn't believe it. I'm the only person I know IRL who is passionate about leaving boys intact if there's really no medical reason to circumcise. No one IRL understands why this hurts me so much and most people are attributing my sensitivity to my being pregnant. I just cannot wrap my head around the fact that knowing that circumcision is primarily a cosmetic procedure, she still willingly allowed her child to go through the pain of it and then saw no problem, was not enraged that the procedure was botched and that she would have to put her child through it again. What hurts more is that I believe that if they botched it again, she would take him in again to get some more surgery done on what was a perfectly normal and functioning organ at birth. I know that some people just don't know the details about circumcision and there's lots of conflicting information out there but . . . I just can't imagine the pain of that baby boy and I can't imagine writing off that pain by saying "He won't remember". I can't imagine leaving my baby boy with strangers in a room to get a piece of his skin cut off *twice*. It would feel so much better if there was a reason why--something religious or something. I told my friend I need some space and time to think. Maybe I'll ask. Maybe there's a reason she so pro-circumcision at all costs that I just don't know. Maybe I'm being too judgmental. Maybe it really is because I'm pregnant. I don't know. I really wish I could just not care. I just feel so :.

It's complicated by the fact that she's one of the few friends with children I have to hang out with. Well, actually, she's the only one. It really sucks to think about going back to being friendless.

Stay-at-home mom to 2 beautiful.busy.boisterous boys b. 08.17.05 & 12.29.08
Nirvana is . . . the living happiness of a soul which is conscious of itself and conscious of having found its own abode in the heart of the Eternal. --Gandhi
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#2 of 13 Old 12-11-2007, 08:17 AM
 
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It's not just cause you're pregnant. I'm not, and it makes me feel sick to think about that poor little baby and what he went through *twice* Over here in the UK most people would be disgusted too, and it's only due to the entrenchement of circ in US culture that more people in your social circles are not. (I've told people here that baby boys are circed in the US and they are horrified)
I would find it SO hard to be friends with someone who circ knowing all the facts and still lacked the compassion to spare their baby. I've found out that online friends circed and it's altered my whole perception of them. *DISCLAIMER - Not talking about those who circed and later regret it - I'm talking about those who KNOW and still don't care*
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#3 of 13 Old 12-11-2007, 08:51 AM
 
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I wonder if his circ was just too 'loose' for his parents liking.
I think it's bizarre when people don't respond like you have to a child being violated (not once but twice in this case). It's horrible , heartbreaking and enraging.
I don't know how I could continue being friends with her, any respect I had for her would be gone.

OUR DAUGHTERS ARE PROTECTED SHOULDN'T OUR SONS BE TOO! :
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#4 of 13 Old 12-11-2007, 09:49 AM
 
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My sisters friend is having her son undergo a surgery when he turn one to "fix" his botched circ too! Horrible!!
Claire and boys: whats the circ rate like over where you are? My mom is from Germany and of course folks over there would never think twice about circ'ing, but I was just wondering if you had any stats or anything from your area? Sometimes I like to pretend I dont live in Virginia

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#5 of 13 Old 12-11-2007, 10:24 AM
 
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I know just how you feel mama...Many hugs to you

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#6 of 13 Old 12-11-2007, 11:27 AM
 
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Originally Posted by RMM1117 View Post
My sisters friend is having her son undergo a surgery when he turn one to "fix" his botched circ too! Horrible!!
Claire and boys: whats the circ rate like over where you are? My mom is from Germany and of course folks over there would never think twice about circ'ing, but I was just wondering if you had any stats or anything from your area? Sometimes I like to pretend I dont live in Virginia
I googled it, and found varying answers:

Overall 15.8% of British men are circumcised, with the highest rate being among men aged 40-44 (19%) With current trends though, the rate is expected to be 3.1% by age 15.

That said, the rate of allegedly therapeutic circumcision is six times the expected rate of phimosis, so large numbers of boys are still receiving circumcisions which are medically unnecessary. : (INCLUDING MY DH)
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#7 of 13 Old 12-11-2007, 12:38 PM
 
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Wow, her son's circumcision was "botched" and she didn't flinch an eye about puttin ghim through surgery again? How cruel.
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#8 of 13 Old 12-11-2007, 01:22 PM
 
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It is cruel! I think some people just lack that heart to heart connection between parent and child, kwim?? I mean, its one thing to get it done in the first place (NOT that I advocate it) but its quite another to say it was 'botched' and then send him right back in for round two!! So sad

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#9 of 13 Old 12-11-2007, 01:34 PM
 
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hugs

that is so sad. i dont get it.

when i talk to pregnant friends about circ...they are usually very defensive..and dont want to talk about it. its just cleaner they say. or this last one said..she had sex with a uncirc man and didnt like it. i dont understand how that can validate cutting off an organ! CRAZY SHIT. anyway...after the discussion....unfortunately i do view them differently. i dont want to not be friends with them..bc alienation does nothing to share the message...kinda like war...its futile and no one wins. im not going to shun anyone bc they dont agree with me....that way i will never get my point across! does that make since?

good luck sweet dear. this stuff hurts.
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#10 of 13 Old 12-11-2007, 02:49 PM
 
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I'm so sorry, that is just a crappy situation, and that poor little boy! I feel the same way when my friends speak so casually about their sons' circumcisions. I don't think anyone needs to attribute those feelings to pregnancy because most of us here would certainly feel as upset as you do about it!
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#11 of 13 Old 12-11-2007, 04:18 PM
 
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I am so sorry. I would feel the exact same way. I have not yet lost any friendships over circumcision, but I imagine it's only a matter of time. I can't contemplate sharing any portion of life with someone who could allow her infant to be harmed in such a way... twice. I just can't imagine.. I hope you find peace about what to do, rootz.
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#12 of 13 Old 12-12-2007, 11:35 AM
 
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My best friend and I have had similar discussions about VAXing-- which is more of a gray area, IMO, than circumcision--and natural childbirth.
What it comes down to for her, I think, is that she really just trusts doctors and nurses--- a lot. She and her Dh have an amateur interest in medicine-- she had an epidural during her first delivery (though she told me she was tolerating the pain well) partially because her husband was really interested in watching the procedure. Her second baby was induced at 38 weeks (because she was already 6 cm)-- the epidural didn't work, the pitocin worked too well, and she had constant contractions for two hours which were, apparently, unbelieveably painful. Then her baby was kept from her for about 3 hrs because of a shift change. I went and saw her DD in the nursery-- she was lying in the stainless bassinet all alone-- no nurses even in the room. It was very sad. I asked my friend later if she would change anything, and she said nope-- she'd do everything exactly the same way, but hope the epid. worked. If I had been in her position, though,I would have been irate (and wouldn't have consented to the induction, anyway).

Regardless of this, though-- she's still my best friend. She respects my parenting decisions (and even made a sling for me, though she's not a huge fan of them herself), and I try to respect hers. We both love our DDs, our husband, crafty things, good food, etc... so we focus on those things.

There are so many possible extenuating circumstances for your friend-- maybe she brought up the idea of not circing and her Dh was very uncomfortable about it (which is no excuse, but I understand how she might feel). Maybe the doctor told her it was a good idea, and the approval of medical staff makes her feel like a good mum. Now that she knows the information you gave her, though, she must feel *some* guilt about it that she is trying to deal with by expressing her enthusiasm for circing (the "I'm all for it" comment). The extra surgery must make her feel even worse.
A year ago, I was undecided about vaxing and mildly pro-circ. My beliefs changed *very* quickly. I just needed some time to process the information. I wasn't a bad person before, though--it's very scary to learn that what you've heard your whole life is misinformed and/or deceptive. I would stick with her, avoid sensitive issues, and hope that eventually she wants to talk.

Aspiring to 1 Thessalonians 4:11.Wife to Dh, 2004. Mother to DD 3/07.
So thankful for our healthy baby boy, born Easter morning, 2010!
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#13 of 13 Old 12-12-2007, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaterPrimaePuellae View Post
My best friend and I have had similar discussions about VAXing-- which is more of a gray area, IMO, than circumcision--and natural childbirth.
What it comes down to for her, I think, is that she really just trusts doctors and nurses--- a lot. She and her Dh have an amateur interest in medicine-- she had an epidural during her first delivery (though she told me she was tolerating the pain well) partially because her husband was really interested in watching the procedure. Her second baby was induced at 38 weeks (because she was already 6 cm)-- the epidural didn't work, the pitocin worked too well, and she had constant contractions for two hours which were, apparently, unbelieveably painful. Then her baby was kept from her for about 3 hrs because of a shift change. I went and saw her DD in the nursery-- she was lying in the stainless bassinet all alone-- no nurses even in the room. It was very sad. I asked my friend later if she would change anything, and she said nope-- she'd do everything exactly the same way, but hope the epid. worked. If I had been in her position, though,I would have been irate (and wouldn't have consented to the induction, anyway).

Regardless of this, though-- she's still my best friend. She respects my parenting decisions (and even made a sling for me, though she's not a huge fan of them herself), and I try to respect hers. We both love our DDs, our husband, crafty things, good food, etc... so we focus on those things.

There are so many possible extenuating circumstances for your friend-- maybe she brought up the idea of not circing and her Dh was very uncomfortable about it (which is no excuse, but I understand how she might feel). Maybe the doctor told her it was a good idea, and the approval of medical staff makes her feel like a good mum. Now that she knows the information you gave her, though, she must feel *some* guilt about it that she is trying to deal with by expressing her enthusiasm for circing (the "I'm all for it" comment). The extra surgery must make her feel even worse.
A year ago, I was undecided about vaxing and mildly pro-circ. My beliefs changed *very* quickly. I just needed some time to process the information. I wasn't a bad person before, though--it's very scary to learn that what you've heard your whole life is misinformed and/or deceptive. I would stick with her, avoid sensitive issues, and hope that eventually she wants to talk.
This makes a lot of sense. Thank you very much for that.

Thanks to everyone who responded. I never knew I would get so emotional over this topic. I'm so happy that there is support *somewhere*.

Stay-at-home mom to 2 beautiful.busy.boisterous boys b. 08.17.05 & 12.29.08
Nirvana is . . . the living happiness of a soul which is conscious of itself and conscious of having found its own abode in the heart of the Eternal. --Gandhi
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