Husband threatening to circ our 8m old without my consent - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 62 Old 01-04-2008, 07:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
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When I was pregnant we had some pretty heated discussions about circumcision. When our son was born he was not eligible for a circumcision due to needing open heart bypass surgery soon after birth. The doctor said that he could be circed after 6 months by a urologist. Now our son is 8months old. I was sort of hoping my husband would forget about it since he doesn't change the diapers but the other day we had another heated fight about it. He said he will take a day off from work to bring him in without my permission if he has too. Now we have Medicaid for the kids and I'm hoping that at this point they wouldn't cover it because it would be a cosmetic procedure. I pointed this out to him and he said if he had to he would sell his truck to pay for it. His truck is worth about $8,000 (which is sitting on MY credit card) and I'm hoping it wouldn't be enough. Since my son has such major heart issues and is so old I'm hoping it would require anastesia and an OR with monitors and stuff. I really don't know but I can't imagine it would be a snip in someone's office. My husband is a big procrastinator so I'm not sure if he's really looked into it yet.
Does anyone know if I have any legal rights in this? Can he really make this decision all by himself? I'm going to ask his cardiologist if she can recommend it not be done, if a urologist should contact her for permission, but am not sure if she will go for it.
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#2 of 62 Old 01-04-2008, 07:55 PM
 
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Wow. I'm sorry, but that's just crazy. I'd tell him if he took my son to be circumcised without my consent, he'd be looking at divorce papers within 48 hours. Maybe that will give him pause to think.

Have you given him all the research? Shown him your side of things? Or is he just not open to it?

I'd say he can not do this without your consent. Both of you are the parents, and both of you must consent to surgical procedures. So, I'd say you're safe there ... but, on the other hand, I'd still be nervous about it.
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#3 of 62 Old 01-04-2008, 07:57 PM
 
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Why is he so adamant that it be done?

Mom of a 7 yr old, 4 yr old, and 1 yr old. Wow. How did that happen?
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#4 of 62 Old 01-04-2008, 08:00 PM
 
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Get a sharpie and write on your son's belly (right under the diaper).."if you circumcise me my mother will sue you."

I doubt your DH would check under his diaper before taking him to the urologist. And I doubt the urologist will touch him with that warning!

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#5 of 62 Old 01-04-2008, 08:00 PM
 
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I don't know how to respond, and I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but your husband doesn't sound like a very considerate man, threatening to go behind your back for unnecessary surgery and even selling a vehicle. Are you sure you want to stay with somebody who would treat you like this? I wouldn't.
Personally, I would leave my dh and get a restraining order. I'd also seek legal counsel and put in writing that if a medically unnecessary circ was done without my permission I'd sue both the father & the doctor. But that's just me.
I'm sorry for your situation but as I've said to people here before, there isn't a happy compromise to this. Either the child gets circed or he stays intact. It sounds like anesthesia maybe even more riskier for your child, I'm not sure. It always carries some risk to all people, even with excellent health. It wouldn't hurt to talk to his cardiologist. At least it would be a document stating (in his medical record) that you were concerned and possibly the Dr too. That might help if you had to go to court but I'm not sure.
I hope you'll stand your ground and make sure your son is left intact.
Good luck.

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#6 of 62 Old 01-04-2008, 08:02 PM
 
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I'm so sorry you are dealing with this stress.

I think there are probably several things you can do to help protect your son.... do you care for your son during the day or does he go to daycare? Do you do all the drop offs and pick ups at the day care, and could you change your paperwork there so your DH cannot pick up his son?

Could you have orders on file with your son's pediatrician and cardiologist that you do not allow your son to be circumcised?

How many urologists are in your area? I wonder if you can also do something preventative by talking to their offices or group practices about your concerns. Maybe you can get something on file there -- start a file for your son with MOTHER REFUSES CIRC in his records.

I also think you may need legal advice.

I think it's wrong that your husband is using threats like this and trying to pressure you. Keep close tabs on your son and I would arrange for other babysitters, etc. etc. It sounds like your DH is being both emotional and irrational when he says he will sell his truck etc. etc.

I would not argue with him, but I would be very watchful and talk to him about his concerns if and when he is calm about it, and you be calm too and dont' get caught up in his drama over it. Id just say it's not medically necessary and try to leave it at that, give the facts plainly.

Keep your son close. I hope this stress passes quickly.

ETA: Another preventative thought -- take a look at the financial controls you can put in place quietly -- check on Medicaid in your state so you know if you're safe or not. If Medicaid will pay for it, then see if you can give notice to Medicaid that you do not want them to cover a circ for your son and send them a letter or something.....

Obviously, you'll know if there's a for sale sign on the truck, but that's an empty threat... he's not going to do that. I'd see if you can restrict his access to credit, especially your credit, so that's not an option to him to fund a procedure. I would let the urology billing offices know that you do not want an account for your family at their office if you can.

Keep an eye out -- he may leave notes etc. about if he is actually talking to a doctor's office, etc. etc. I also might rip the doctor's listings for pediatricians and urology out of your yellow pages, etc. Check your internet history...

OK, I'm sounding totally paranoid!!!! But be watchful. Do what you can to protect yourself and do it quickly and quietly. I hope this blows over in time.

All his talk may just be moaning and groaning and puffery with no real intention to do it, he just wants you to know how upset he is, etc. and is communicating his frustration with it. That's what I think it probably is.... but..... be careful and do what you can to protect yourself and your son. If you think he could be violent over the matter, then give a little thought to preventing or protecting yourself from that too.

Again, I'm so sorry you're dealing with this stress, and I hope it's just him venting his bad feelings and frustration
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#7 of 62 Old 01-04-2008, 08:05 PM
 
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Wow. I think I'd be considering a divorce.

Apart from that I'd be sending a letter to every doctor in the area who could possibly do the procedure. I would brief him/her on the situation and emphasize that I DO NOT consent. And that I would take legal action if it were done.

God what an awful situation. Scary, scary. I guess also I'd be pretty hesitant to leave DS with DH under such circumstances.
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#8 of 62 Old 01-04-2008, 08:07 PM
 
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He's willing to sell his truck?

Sure, let him sell his truck...then he can't drive him to the circ appointment!

Amanda: Christian, wife to musician DH since 2002, mom to intact & vax free "monkey" DS1 since 12/21/06, and "lovey" DS2 5/17/10! WINNER OF THE GOLDEN BIRTH STOOL, APRIL 2010 DDC!
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#9 of 62 Old 01-04-2008, 08:08 PM
 
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I would get a laywer and start proceedings for some sort of protective order. Call all the docs esp. the heart docs and get documentation that any unnecessary surgery would put babe at serious risk of heart complications. After all that I don't think you'll find a doc in your town that would go near that baby's penis!

Your DH is a UA violation.: I'd kick him out and start divorce proceedings.
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#10 of 62 Old 01-04-2008, 08:10 PM
 
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Wow. I think I'd be considering a divorce.

Apart from that I'd be sending a letter to every doctor in the area who could possibly do the procedure. I would brief him/her on the situation and emphasize that I DO NOT consent. And that I would take legal action if it were done.

God what an awful situation. Scary, scary. I guess also I'd be pretty hesitant to leave DS with DH under such circumstances.
That too!
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#11 of 62 Old 01-04-2008, 08:11 PM
 
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Your DH is a UA violation.: I'd kick him out and start divorce proceedings.
:
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#12 of 62 Old 01-04-2008, 08:12 PM
 
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I would be kicking DH out the door and filing for a divorce. No if's, and's, or but's.
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#13 of 62 Old 01-04-2008, 08:15 PM
 
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ITA. Total dealbreaker. I cannot believe he is acting this way. You are the mother for God's sake, how traumatic for you, and especially for the baby if this actually happens. I would literally leave my dh if he threatened me this way. In fact, I would also pursue a court order for this NOT to happen, I would search high and low for a doctor who would help me.

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#14 of 62 Old 01-04-2008, 08:24 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Fyrestorm View Post
Get a sharpie and write on your son's belly (right under the diaper).."if you circumcise me my mother will sue you."
I was going to say the same thing.

Talk to a pediatric urologist about his/her requirements for permission from both parents.

Tell your husband you haven't decided the boy will never be circumcised, only that he won't be without his own informed adult consent.

-Ron
HIS body, HIS decision.
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#15 of 62 Old 01-04-2008, 08:28 PM
 
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That would be grounds for divorce in my opinion and I would tell him so. The child is not suffering and would if he had it. General would most likely be required as well and risky. Get your cardio doc on board to tell you idiot partner that it makes no sense to take this risk with this child.
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#16 of 62 Old 01-04-2008, 08:44 PM
 
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I hate to say this, but I agree with the above posters. I would divorce my husband before I'd let him circumcise our son. I would tell your husband this, and also send letters to every urologist in your area saying that you will sue them if they circumcise your son. Your husband is being irrational by threatening to sell his truck to fund it.

Have you read this article to help you understand maybe what he's thinking in his head?
http://www.udonet.com/circumcision/v...ty_of_men.html
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#17 of 62 Old 01-04-2008, 08:54 PM
 
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i cant help wondering if a divorce would leave the ops ds even less protected from the circumcision, as he may get visitation rights.....

i think written evidence from surgeons and any other medical professionals that this is not in her ds's best interest may be more effective
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#18 of 62 Old 01-04-2008, 09:03 PM
 
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I can't think of too many reasons why I would leave my husband, but that would be one of them.
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#19 of 62 Old 01-04-2008, 09:09 PM
 
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i cant help wondering if a divorce would leave the ops ds even less protected from the circumcision, as he may get visitation rights.....

i think written evidence from surgeons and any other medical professionals that this is not in her ds's best interest may be more effective
But she could get written into the divorce decree/parenting plan that ALL medical decisions will be made jointly. Therefore he wouldn't legally have the right to make the decision by himself.
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#20 of 62 Old 01-04-2008, 09:17 PM
 
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i cant help wondering if a divorce would leave the ops ds even less protected from the circumcision, as he may get visitation rights.....

i think written evidence from surgeons and any other medical professionals that this is not in her ds's best interest may be more effective
bolding mine

:

You know, I was thinking the exact same thing.. well, right after divorce instantly popped into my head.

I'm completely livid and sick to my stomach at the thought that someone's spouse would do something like this behind the other's back. It's absolutely disgusting I am SO sorry you have to deal with this!!!

The others have all given you great advice already.. I'll just have to nod my head and agree with them as well. Send letters/make phone calls to every damn doctor in the area if need be. Threaten to sue anyone who even dares touch your son's genitals without your permission.

(((hugs)))

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#21 of 62 Old 01-04-2008, 09:18 PM
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But she could get written into the divorce decree/parenting plan that ALL medical decisions will be made jointly. Therefore he wouldn't legally have the right to make the decision by himself.
The prob with that is docs don't ask for the ex's permission. How would they know if this was even in the decree? I think the best way to handle it is to talk to the urologist, cardiologist and pediatrician.

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#22 of 62 Old 01-04-2008, 09:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you all for your responses! I am going to start by contacting all urologists and discussing with his ped and cardiologist to put "no circ" on file. What a great idea!

Trust me, I wish I could divorce him. He has made a lot of threats in the past about if I were to divorce him. The problem with restraining orders is that they are just a piece of paper, and by the time the cops would be called it would be too late. I'm sort of stuck with him at the moment. Anyway, I also don't want to divorce him because I'm afraid he would get every other weekend visits and I don't leave him alone with the kids because he is just not a good parent. Also he has threatened to stop at nothing to get custody of the kids.

I'm not sure why he's so adamant about circing. I know he said when he was in the army there were a bunch of guys who weren't circed and they used to always complain about getting sweat in there and one guys got infections all the time. Also, he knows two guys who had to be circed as adults supposedly due to medical reasons. I tried to give him info about why I don't want to circ and he won't read it, and when I try to discuss it he just yells over my voice so he doesn't have to listen and says I have been getting crackpot advice.

I'm so glad you guys are out there for me. I feel encouraged now. I am home with the kids all day so if he were to come home and try to run off with Connor to get circed then I would threaten divorce and I guess maybe call the cops or something. Also, good point that if I saw a for sale sign on the truck then I would know he was up to something. I hadn't even thought of that!

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#23 of 62 Old 01-04-2008, 09:49 PM
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Trust me, I wish I could divorce him. He has made a lot of threats in the past about if I were to divorce him. The problem with restraining orders is that they are just a piece of paper, and by the time the cops would be called it would be too late. I'm sort of stuck with him at the moment. Anyway, I also don't want to divorce him because I'm afraid he would get every other weekend visits and I don't leave him alone with the kids because he is just not a good parent. Also he has threatened to stop at nothing to get custody of the kids.
Ok not to take the thread off subject, but I hate what you've said. He sounds like a major u/a violation. I doubt he'd ever get custody. I hope you are getting some kind of counseling to keep from going insane since you have to live with him.

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#24 of 62 Old 01-04-2008, 09:56 PM
 
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I'd say he can not do this without your consent. Both of you are the parents, and both of you must consent to surgical procedures. So, I'd say you're safe there ... but, on the other hand, I'd still be nervous about it.
I'm not so sure this is true. My DS has had multiple surgeries to remove a hemangioma near his eye and I have signed the consent for all the surgeries. My DH is present most of the time when I'm signing them, but he has never signed one himself, and has occasionally not arrived at the surgery center until after I'm done signing everything. I don't even remember there being a place for more than one parent/guardian to sign.

To answer the OPs question, though, I'd definitely be talking to a lawyer ASAP.

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#25 of 62 Old 01-04-2008, 10:27 PM
 
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Thank you all for your responses! I am going to start by contacting all urologists and discussing with his ped and cardiologist to put "no circ" on file. What a great idea!

Trust me, I wish I could divorce him. He has made a lot of threats in the past about if I were to divorce him. The problem with restraining orders is that they are just a piece of paper, and by the time the cops would be called it would be too late. I'm sort of stuck with him at the moment. Anyway, I also don't want to divorce him because I'm afraid he would get every other weekend visits and I don't leave him alone with the kids because he is just not a good parent. Also he has threatened to stop at nothing to get custody of the kids.

I'm not sure why he's so adamant about circing. I know he said when he was in the army there were a bunch of guys who weren't circed and they used to always complain about getting sweat in there and one guys got infections all the time. Also, he knows two guys who had to be circed as adults supposedly due to medical reasons. I tried to give him info about why I don't want to circ and he won't read it, and when I try to discuss it he just yells over my voice so he doesn't have to listen and says I have been getting crackpot advice.

I'm so glad you guys are out there for me. I feel encouraged now. I am home with the kids all day so if he were to come home and try to run off with Connor to get circed then I would threaten divorce and I guess maybe call the cops or something. Also, good point that if I saw a for sale sign on the truck then I would know he was up to something. I hadn't even thought of that!

Sara
Sara,

You are in an abusive relationship. It's not going to get better, it's going to get worse. He does not respect you. He's threatening to hurt your child. He's irrational and cannot be reasoned with. He's threatened you to keep you from leaving, he's using those threats-like doing everything possible to get full custody (ie, take your kids from you) to control you. This is not healthy or acceptable.

You deserve better, you're kids deserve to be safe and to grow up in a healthy home. Please please please start taking steps to prepare to leave like getting copies important documents (birth certificates, social security cards, immunization records, etc) together and start putting money aside if you can, that way if it gets to the point where you need to leave in a hurry you'll be able to do so more smoothly.

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Preparing To Leave An Abusive Marriage

Domestic violence is about control. Aggression is primitive and immature reactions to a sense of helplessness and feeling a loss of control by the abuser. If you are preparing to leave an abusive marriage you should expect the abuser to feel even less control. In other words, expect problems and be prepared for problems. Below are some actions you should take before leaving...

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PS. You may also want to start deleting your internet history just in case he might look at what sites you've been to, where & what you're posting.
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#26 of 62 Old 01-04-2008, 10:46 PM
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How would they know if this was even in the decree?
You could make sure every pediatrician in the area knew about it.

Honestly OP - you need to leave. For your childrens sake.

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#27 of 62 Old 01-04-2008, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Fyrestorm View Post
Get a sharpie and write on your son's belly (right under the diaper).."if you circumcise me my mother will sue you."

I doubt your DH would check under his diaper before taking him to the urologist. And I doubt the urologist will touch him with that warning!

that's a good one!
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#28 of 62 Old 01-04-2008, 11:02 PM
 
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At 8 months he would have to be put under GA for it so it wouldnt be a quick in out thing. And with his heart problem there are very few Dr's who would risk putting him under fot a cosmetic proceedure.

Only a Dr. of dubious credintials would do the circ on your ds at this age without GA.

It is very possible that even with a decree of no circ in divorce papers he could find a ped urologist that would take his word if he said something like he was the sole provider. Paper is only good if someone sees it.

I am so sorry mama you really are in a hard place I have no idea what I would do in your situation.

 
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#29 of 62 Old 01-04-2008, 11:07 PM
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have you seen this video? http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=481025
Has he seen it? Maybe if he does he will finally start seeing circ (male or female one) is mutilation and rape if he actually sees what it really is. Also, perhaps it will make him realize that just because his mom didn't spare him from this doesn't mean he has to put his son though this nightmare...
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#30 of 62 Old 01-04-2008, 11:17 PM
 
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I'm so sorry! I agree that you need to begin taking steps now to get out at some point in time. This seems a lot bigger than just a circ issue (not that circ is not a huge issue tho).

I agree with pp's who said to get stuff from your doc on file and also agree that you should seek legal advice. You said you were on medicaid/care? If you have low income you should also be elligible for free legal advice.

Can you keep something around to record his threats so that a restraining order will bear more weight and so he wont' be able to get custody? I think my main concern would be custody. And then is there someplace far away you can move? You are a brave mama for staying put to protect your little one, but that won't work forever. Please prepare yourself for the future now.
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