Circumcision down to 56% in USA - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 95 Old 01-19-2008, 10:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by carriebft View Post
Well, luckily it isn't like that everywhere (and I assume you weren't the ONLY nurse at those hospitals asking the question and recording the answer).
Of course not. But over 8 years you get a pretty good idea of the trend. It's kind of silly to suggest otherwise - like all those masses of intactivists were always getting OTHER nurses? (not to mention that staff talks among themselves).
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#62 of 95 Old 01-19-2008, 10:42 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Of course not. But over 8 years you get a pretty good idea of the trend. It's kind of silly to suggest otherwise - like all those masses of intactivists were always getting OTHER nurses?
I'm not sure why you seem to be taking my post as attacking? I'm just saying, if you had a handful and a bunch of other nurses had handfuls, and if those handfuls were even slooooooowly increasing, then we got some momentum to work off of.

I think that's what we are seeing over this decade-- we are holding steady in some areas but gaining momentum in others. Just gotta seize it and use the data to target better.

And your info adds to that-- gotta better target in your area, esp immigrant populations (in order to keep the tradition away from circumcision) and teens (to turn that tide)

Foreign language intactivism def needs a boost, IMO-- I plan on bringing a lot of spanish material to the march in april.

"Parents are simply trustees; they do not own the bodies of their children"-Norm Cohen  Martial arts instructor intactlact.gifhomebirth.jpgnak.gif and mom to 4: DD1 (1/05) DS (7/06) DD2 (5/08) DD3 (2/11)
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#63 of 95 Old 01-19-2008, 10:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Let's push this thread in a more productive direction:

1) The two areas that need the most work at the midwest and the northeast. Are there specific attributes about these areas that make them susceptible to higher circumcision rates? what ways can we counteract these? Is there a large NOCIRC presence in these areas? Are there states without NOCIRC reps?

2) Medcaid is a big factor- the report says 30% of all circumcisions are billed to medicaid. Connecting this to point 1-- are there a lot of midwest and northeast states still paying for this? letter writing to be done?

3) How can we aim to make sure that circumcision doesn't become popular in immigrant populations in order to "be more american"

"Parents are simply trustees; they do not own the bodies of their children"-Norm Cohen  Martial arts instructor intactlact.gifhomebirth.jpgnak.gif and mom to 4: DD1 (1/05) DS (7/06) DD2 (5/08) DD3 (2/11)
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#64 of 95 Old 01-19-2008, 11:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by carriebft View Post
Let's push this thread in a more productive direction:

1) The two areas that need the most work at the midwest and the northeast. Are there specific attributes about these areas that make them susceptible to higher circumcision rates? what ways can we counteract these? Is there a large NOCIRC presence in these areas? Are there states without NOCIRC reps?

2) Medcaid is a big factor- the report says 30% of all circumcisions are billed to medicaid. Connecting this to point 1-- are there a lot of midwest and northeast states still paying for this? letter writing to be done?

3) How can we aim to make sure that circumcision doesn't become popular in immigrant populations in order to "be more american"
Well I live in New York City, with a VERY high jewish population. So even though there is a very large non-jewish population, they are very strongly influenced by this. Its funny how where ever circumcision is, there is always this irrational fear that grows around it. Its this fear that something will go wrong if boys are not circumcised, and for some reason this fear seems to almost ALWAYS spread very effectively, making for more circumcisions to take place. Its a very strange effect.
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#65 of 95 Old 01-20-2008, 02:49 AM
 
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Of course not. But over 8 years you get a pretty good idea of the trend. It's kind of silly to suggest otherwise - like all those masses of intactivists were always getting OTHER nurses? (not to mention that staff talks among themselves).
I'd like to know more about what your referring to. What does the staff members say among themselves? Are they cheering when a baby is saved from this brutal unnecessary attack on the newborn's sexual organ?

I'm am NOT understanding when you say:
Quote:
like all those masses of intactivists were always getting OTHER nurses?
Are you dealing with nurses that are clearly intactivist?

Does your hospital give you a script on how you must ask the parents if they "would like to keep their ds intact?"

What would happen if a nurse challenged the policy and simply didn't ask and perhaps instead, explain the care of the intact penis? And as long as they're not asking, the staff members can presume to omit their name from the circ board.
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#66 of 95 Old 01-20-2008, 02:57 AM
 
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Originally Posted by fruitful womb View Post
I'd like to know more about what your referring to. What does the staff members say among themselves? Are they cheering when a baby is saved from this brutal unnecessary attack on the newborn's sexual organ?

I'm am NOT understanding when you say:


Are you dealing with nurses that are clearly intactivist?

Does your hospital give you a script on how you must ask the parents if they "would like to keep their ds intact?"

What would happen if a nurse challenged the policy and simply didn't ask and perhaps instead, explain the care of the intact penis? And as long as they're not asking, the staff members can presume to omit their name from the circ board.
OK, let me lay it out for you. AFAIK, I'm the only nurse, perhaps one other, that didn't think there was something WRONG with leaving a baby intact. That's the starting point. I've worked with lots and lots of OB's - most are no better.

Yes, there is a "script" in the form of the "OB triage admit form" and asking if they DO or DO NOT desire circ is one of those questions. It must be filled out one way or the other, along with myriad other questions about their care, including if they want a flu shot, the new adult DPT and what are their feeding preferences. What you are suggesting doing would get me fired, and no, sorry, not interested. I'd rather be a resource for those that are looking for good info.
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#67 of 95 Old 01-20-2008, 10:06 AM - Thread Starter
 
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let's remember UA and not get this thread closed (maybe take it to PM?) perspective, you may want to edit.


I did some intactivism work in NYC not too long ago (just general tri fold handing out, wore my shirt out a bit in manhatten, had my buttons going etc) and the response I got was generally very positive.

This was also during that short period where the news was that BLoomberg wanted to recommend circumcision to protect against HIV in NYC and that didn't seem to go over well in any of the papers...so people were talking about it.

NY circumcision rate as a state stands around 59-62%.

They have an above average percentage of incidents where it is billed to medicaid (national average: 30% NY average: 45%). African Americans are the most likely to circumcise at 73% followed by whites at 69% and Native Americans at 54%.

Are there different ways of reaching each of these groups? are there factors that account for these differences?

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#68 of 95 Old 01-20-2008, 12:17 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mamabain View Post
i believe the immigrant population bit. not stereotypically but just because i don't see my hispanic clients cutting their boys as often as i hear the anglo and african american clients in my office doing so. i live in indiana which is probably closer to 80 or 90% circ rate.
Actually, the "immigrant influence" is not figured into the statistics. When The CDC first began collecting data, they omitted recent immigrants and for continuity, they have continued to collect and report the information in this manner. If they did include the immigrant population, the figures would be about 4% lower.

Blaming it (the lower circumcision rate) on immigrant populations either shows ignorance of this fact or shows a purposeful intent to deceive. I suspect the latter. Before this, it was advanced that only the poor, rural or blacks didn't circumcise with the clear implication of "You don't want to be like them, do you." It is a clear example of racism/classism. Only the targets of discrimination have changed.

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#69 of 95 Old 01-20-2008, 12:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Benji'sMom View Post
"The national rate has remained relatively stable for a decade. It peaked at 65 percent in 1980. "

Wha? Only 65%? I thought it peaked at closer to 90%?
Yes, you are correct. This appears to be an attempt to make the reader believe there has been no cultural change and circumcision is as strong as ever except for "those immigrants" and they are solely responsible for the falling circumcision rate. This appears to be a clear cut case of "I'm from the government and I'm here to help you understand this" when it is a clear cut example of deception.

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#70 of 95 Old 01-20-2008, 12:32 PM
 
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I would be interested in seeing the break down b/c I believe it actually supports the "immigrant" theory. Where are the highest rates of immigrants, legal and otherwise, from Mexico, Central and South America? IIRC, I read that native Southerners have the highest circ. rates in the country.
Being a native southerner, I can tell you unequivocably that is not true and never has been. Where did you find such information?

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#71 of 95 Old 01-20-2008, 12:44 PM
 
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Look at Canada, for example, and how lack of funding has changed the circumcision picture. So that plays a lot into it, too.
Actually, funding appears to have had very little influence. Dr. Dennis Kendall, the Registrar of The Saskatchewan College of Physicians and Surgeons (the Saskatchewan equivalent of The AMA) had been releasing public statements for several years warning Canadian physicians about potential liability risks in performing the procedure. The death of Ryleigh McWillis brought all of Dr. Kendall's warnings home and the vast majority of Canadian physicians dropped the procedure from their offerings immediately. It was only then that it was defunded so the defunding actually had little effect.

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#72 of 95 Old 01-20-2008, 12:49 PM
 
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[QUOTE=fruitful womb;10315355]
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This begs the question, is a practitioner asking, "Do you desire to leave your ds intact or circ'd?" Because sometimes a question can be so suggestive. What message would a parent get if asked, "Do you wish to leave your ds intact?" vs just, "Do you desire to circ?" See what I mean?(

Yes, this has a significant influence. I've seen many mothers ask "If it is so bad, why do the doctors do it? If it was bad, they wouldn't be offering it."

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#73 of 95 Old 01-20-2008, 12:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by jwhispers View Post
I agree with Quirky. I don't think the question needs to change but rather why are we even asking the question to begin with? How does an OB or anyone else in L&D reconcile this procedure with standard medical ethics? Why not just remove it from the list and actively dissuade anyone who continues to ask for it?



See this is the problem in this country although I am sure peoples experience varies, at least from the posts in this thread it seems that even when someone marks the "choice" (and I use that term loosely) to not perform the circumcision and informs the staff they are still besieged like it was some sort of mistake. But if OBs and Peds would simply follow their oaths and proper medical ethics there would be no need for this and no room for that kind of "mistake".

Yes! Imagine if every medical professional and staffer asked you if you wanted a nose job. After the first few, wouldn't you imagine you'd be looking in the closest mirror to see why they were asking that? Wouldn't you begin thinking you might actually need a nose job?

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#74 of 95 Old 01-20-2008, 01:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by RestoredIntactivst View Post
I'd like to see if this new survey did a state-by-state breakdown to see how that looks. Wouldn't it be cool if we could access the raw data (down to the exact city) and create a colorcoded gradient map of percentages similar to those gas price maps?

Seriously, why don't they do that? With today's nearly limitless computer processing power and storage space, surely it is possible to plug in the raw data and get something like that. I mean who ever decided to break the whole country into only 4 regions for this type of data anyway?
Its just a matter that our health care systems are not set up like that. There are numerous insurance companies, Medicare and patient paid procedures and no one has to report to the government. Our statistics are compiled by surveying 500 hospitals across the country and taking their statistics as representative for the region. In countries that have universal government provided health care, the hospitals and physicians have to report to the government to receive payment and that makes compiling statistics efficient and quick. They can follow the population for life for the lifetime circumcision rate and that is just impossible with our system.



Quote:
And while I am on that soapbox.... Those of you that think KY is a "southern" state, guess again. I know there are states that get alot colder than us through the winter, but I wouldn't consider 5 degrees F (our forecast low temp for Sunday morning) as a "southern" temperature! We usually hit single digits at least a couple times per year. Although.... I guess I wouldn't mind being a southern state with these new circ numbers! Way to go South!

Most other southerners (Mississippi, South Carolina or Florida for example) don't consider Kentuckians "true southerners." Lumping Kentuckians into the southern states is simply a convienience to make keeping statistics simple.

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#75 of 95 Old 01-20-2008, 01:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Night_Nurse View Post
On the other hand, unfortunately we've started seeing a trend with some Hispanic patients coming to our facility from Mexico and adopting the more "American" looking penis style for their sons. :

A study showed that the circumcision rate among recent Hispanic immigrants is up by 300%. It also showed that the circumcision rate among recent immigrants from India is up 800% so that makes the increasing circumcision rate among Hispanics look like small potatoes. I can't help but think this is due to a language barrier and doctors and hospitals "selling" circumcision and these people are not really understanding what they are agreeing to have done or the reasons for it.

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#76 of 95 Old 01-20-2008, 01:40 PM
 
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You know, I have heard of hosptials that do NOT offer RIC at all, but I've never read any names/locations. Does anyone know of non-circing hosp. in the US?
If so, please list.

The unfortuate thing about many of these hospitals not offering it is because they had an amputation or death at the facility. I know that is the case with Airline Memorial in Texas. A boy died from his circumcision and that was the end of it at that hospital. However, we know that many boys die every year and the number of hospitals no longer hosting the procedure does not match the deaths. Apparently they figure it is within the statistics and will never happen to them again.

For example, Atlanta's Northside Hospital was the site of two boys losing their entire penis in botched circumcisions. They happened on the same day but on two different shifts and by two different doctors. This was widely reported in the local media. Logical thought processes would have you guess that the circumcision rate would fall significantly after that for at least a short while wouldn't it? Actually, the circumcision rate increased in the weeks after the accidents. The rate for white boys did fall but the rate for black boys increased significantly. This indicates that the doctors and nurses were heavily solicting the procedure among black families. The percentage of black mothers giving birth at Northside was very low since the area around Northside is almost exclusively white and well to do or upper middle class. The evidence indicates Northside found a susceptible population in black families and sold the procedure heavily among them. It is apparent that few if any black babies escaped the knife during that time at Northside. Northside had a revenue stream to protect and took out all stops to continue that revenue stream. Statistics from Northside shows that the hospital realizes more than $150,000.00 every year from circumcisions.

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#77 of 95 Old 01-20-2008, 01:58 PM
 
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I truly honestly believe that if this procedure wasn't offered, meaning no one actually asked the parents if "Do you desire to circ?" Rates would drop dramatically!
This reminds me of a study that was performed at a military hospital in Hawaii in the early 1980's. It was conducted in a military hospital to get a high rate of compliance. It required the doctors and nurses to provide the parents with truthful information about circumcision. The result was that the circumcision rate dropped from 80% to 20% immediately and after the study ended, it took many months for the rate to climb to its previous level.

This shows us several things: (1) Parents will choose not to circumcise if they are given accurate information. (2) Medical professionals are not giving parents truthful and complete information. (3) Parents will spread this information among each other. (4) Parents are accepting of this information if it comes from a medical provider (5) Much of the continuing cultural acceptance of circumcision is due to the medical profession.


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#78 of 95 Old 01-20-2008, 02:10 PM
 
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I think if it is requested, a counselor should be called in to find out what psychological reasons are behind parents wanting to mutilate their sons.
Something that really confounds me is that men who are wanting surgical restoration of their amputated foreskins have to agree to and pass a series of psychological evaluations before the doctor will agree to perform the procedure. Why is that? Why do parents not have to go through a similar series of psychological evaluations? That clearly makes no sense.

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#79 of 95 Old 01-20-2008, 02:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mommiska View Post
I think people were questioning the 'only immigrants fail to circumcise' line.

I don't at all think that it is 'only immigrants' who fail to circumcise. It is clear that when clear and complete information about circumcision is given to parents, most of them will chose to protect their sons.
Do you yourself realize how loaded the word "fail" is? The connotation is a parent who does not circumcise has failed their child or has failed in their responsibility as a parent. In my profession I acted as a negotiator almost daily and the words used are vitally important in perceptions. For instance, sales people are told to never tell a prospect that his product is "cheaper" but that it is "more economical," "more cost efficient" or "more competitive." "Cheaper" implies that the product is of lesser quality. "More" implies that the customer will get something extra.


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#80 of 95 Old 01-20-2008, 02:37 PM
 
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Do you have links or citations for any of the studies you are referring to? I'm sure many of us would like to read the source material.
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#81 of 95 Old 01-21-2008, 04:57 PM
 
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I was actually surprised by my experience in Canada. My doctor was great--he is originally from South Africa, and when I mentioned circumcision, he just said definitely, "it's not recommended." No pros or cons mentioned--just a straight answer. He said if parents wanted circumcision for their son, they had to find a doctor "willing to assume the risk" and then pay for it out of pocket, after we'd been discharged from the hospital. Rates in my province are less than 15% I believe.

So when I was in the hospital, I was surprised that in the "bath and baby care" demonstration, the nurse asked our group if the parents of boys would be circumcising! And then she took a really neutral stance as she said, "It's completely up to you." : Good grief, why mention it at all? There were no forms, however, When circumcision is done, it has nothing to do with the hospital.

And then two nurses asked me if I'd be circumcising. Again, why? I told the one that we wouldn't be, and she gave me a smile and a thumbs-up.

So even Canada could do better!
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#82 of 95 Old 01-23-2008, 07:34 AM
 
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A related thought.....
Do you think parents who grow up around immigrants who don't circ', may be less likely to do it themselves? The entire southwest has a relatively low circ' rate, and I can't believe it's only first generation folks who make the difference. For a long time I thought it was Catholics who didn't circ, not making the connection that all the Catholics I knew were Hispanic!
Though statistically, I suppose they might have started influencing numbers in other parts of the country in the last few years.

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#83 of 95 Old 01-24-2008, 02:23 AM
 
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A related thought.....
Do you think parents who grow up around immigrants who don't circ', may be less likely to do it themselves? The entire southwest has a relatively low circ' rate, and I can't believe it's only first generation folks who make the difference.
It would be interesting if the country was trying to adopt the the immigrant's way of thinking, instead of demanding the immigrants adapt and assimilate completely. That might be a part of it, but I think it is more likely the general slow-to-change mindset of the south - they never adopted circ as readily and completely as the midwest (just based on the figures at CIRP which only go back to 1994 - when south was 64% and midwest was 80%) Does anyone have regional figures that go back further to test this hypothesis?

The recent declines I think is a result of a more connected, more free-to-think, more information saavy generation starting to make these decisions as they have kids. I like the trend and I only wish it happened faster and about 30 years ago!

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For a long time I thought it was Catholics who didn't circ
Oh how I wish that was the case... I come from a fairly large 4th generation German Catholic family, and everyone in it (at least in my parents and my generation) is circed. I know for sure that at least 8 of my male cousins are cut because we all grew up together, close in age, and saw each other naked just as a matter of course when going swimming etc. All my uncles must be cut also because they thought I was crazy a couple years ago when I started my anti-circ tirades.
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#84 of 95 Old 01-24-2008, 03:13 AM
 
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OK, let me lay it out for you. AFAIK, I'm the only nurse, perhaps one other, that didn't think there was something WRONG with leaving a baby intact. That's the starting point. I've worked with lots and lots of OB's - most are no better.

Yes, there is a "script" in the form of the "OB triage admit form" and asking if they DO or DO NOT desire circ is one of those questions. It must be filled out one way or the other, along with myriad other questions about their care, including if they want a flu shot, the new adult DPT and what are their feeding preferences. What you are suggesting doing would get me fired, and no, sorry, not interested. I'd rather be a resource for those that are looking for good info.
Ok, so lets try and continue pushing this thread in to a positive direction. I would like to know a few things. I suppose you have discussed this with your colleages from time to time and I am wondering what is it that has them so hung up on circumcision being necessary. It is troubling to hear that someone who is supposed to be a medical professional would think there is something inherantly wrong with a normal male penis, especially a physician.

So I am wondering if you have discussed why do they think it is necessary, do they know all of those reasons are a crock? What do they say, if they are told, that the US mostly stands alone among western countries in this practice? I suppose by and large these are smart people, and if the physicians don't know that we are essentially alone what justification are they using to say it is fine to do here even if nobody else is really doing it?

Second, from your prospective, what would be a good tact to take to start changing these beliefs? All though letter writing is always good perhaps that isn't the best path. Are there others you think might be more effective?
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#85 of 95 Old 01-24-2008, 03:33 AM
 
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I think that cultural issues aside, what people forget is that there is research that supports circing. Now, before you attack me, I am NOT saying it is all valid or that it is all of equal quality or all without an agenda. But I do think that is part of how "medical types" justify their already held belief that babies "need" circ or present it as "six of one, half dozen of the other".

Step back for a moment and imagine you are not an intactivist and you are an MD. Studies of all sorts cross your desk in the form of those carried by the medical journals you read. If you don't have an interest in the topic, you are not going to read the studies that critically, but rely on the peer review that accepted the study in the first place. So some of those studies show benefit (a la the "AIDS in Africa" study). My point is that most are going to try to present a "fair and balanced" POV, quoting both sides OR going to say "it's parental choice, not my place to get involved b/c there are studies to support either view". Does that make sense?
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#86 of 95 Old 01-24-2008, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
 
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My point is that most are going to try to present a "fair and balanced" POV, quoting both sides OR going to say "it's parental choice, not my place to get involved b/c there are studies to support either view".

But there are soooo many MDs that don't think that-- MDs in australia calling for the ban, MDs in New Zealand talking openly to papers about the wrongness of it all, MDs in Brazil laughing off the idea that circumcision would be a way to fight AIDS, MDs in Canada and Britain just saying its not necessary, MDs in Finland, Denmarkm etc actually wanting it to be illegal. I don't think your idea that "most" MDs would react that way is in any way supported by world wide evidence.

There has got to be something in particular we can focus on in the regions of the USA where MDs still hold circumcision in the way you see them as holding it-- and it does seem pretty unique here. While other countries' MDs do say that circumcision can be medically beneficially in certain circumstances, they don't hand the decision over to parental choice...they still speak out against it.


And another thing to note is that even our very own AAP specifically states that the benefits do not outweigh the risks; and while they go on to talk about parental choice, I don't often see the former line talked about as much as the latter. But when you see reports from other countries or their medical stances, the wording is far stronger and it is often quotes as such.


Edit: sorry to keep adding but more thoguht just enter my mind....I also seem to see the answer most foreigners give is that circumcision is not even talked about or offered. So I would think this is the case with many doctors...the number probably even surpassing the number of total doctors who mention circumcision at all.

"Parents are simply trustees; they do not own the bodies of their children"-Norm Cohen  Martial arts instructor intactlact.gifhomebirth.jpgnak.gif and mom to 4: DD1 (1/05) DS (7/06) DD2 (5/08) DD3 (2/11)
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#87 of 95 Old 01-24-2008, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
 
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One more thought, and although this is anecdotal but I figured I'd add it since much of this thread has been the same--

At the March for Genital Integrity last year the big thing I noticed, besides the interest of youth in the movement, was that doctors from other countries, and we met a lot of them, repeated again and again how things are different in their various countries. Many even talked about how it was not even brought up at birth.

So that makes me wonder as well if we can really say that "most" doctors would give a neutral view.


__________________________

not related to above really...

Also this study by the AAP might be helpful to our discussion at large:

Quote:
Conclusion: The most important factors influencing the choice appear to stem from parents perception that increased effort is necessary to care for an uncircumcised penis, concern about UTI, and the fathers circumcision status. For those who decided against circumcision, cultural and traditional factors had sporadic roles, but the majority felt that it was an unnecessary procedure. While most parents view doctors as sources of information, their primary resource appears to be family. For those whose decision was influenced by a physician, obstetricians may carry more weight.

and also this study:

Quote:
Conclusions: Most parents have made a decision on circumcision before physicians discuss it, and physician discussions appear to have little impact on the decision. Ease of cleanliness is still the most common reason parents choose circumcision. (J Am Board Fam Pract 1999;12:16-20)
http://www.cirp.org/library/procedure/tiemstra/

Interesting that the most common reason for NOT circumcising was "it is just not necessary"

"Parents are simply trustees; they do not own the bodies of their children"-Norm Cohen  Martial arts instructor intactlact.gifhomebirth.jpgnak.gif and mom to 4: DD1 (1/05) DS (7/06) DD2 (5/08) DD3 (2/11)
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#88 of 95 Old 01-24-2008, 10:01 AM
 
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Unfortunately where I live it seems all the mainstream parents do circ. I know one non-"hippy" mother whose son is intact, she's a pretty independent thinker though. It came up when a bunch of us moms got together once and the other moms were shocked. One was even like "I thought it was required!"

So I'm very skeptical of those statistics, I'd guess the rate is at least 90+ % here. However it's done more often in the pediatrician's office here than in the hospital so that would account for lower rates reported by hospitals.
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#89 of 95 Old 01-24-2008, 10:28 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I found this to be very interesting; it is a piece from the resource manual for physicians from the College of Physicians and Surgeons of British Columbia:


https://www.cpsbc.ca/cps/physician_r...ual/malecircum


Quote:
Recommendation:
Best medical practice includes the following standards of practice for doctors who are asked to circumcise male infants:

*
Keep up-to-date on the issues surrounding infant male circumcision, including the therapeutic medical indications and legal and ethical issues.
*
Advise parents that the current medical consensus is that routine infant male circumcision is not a recommended procedure; it is non-therapeutic and has no medical prophylactic basis; it is a cosmetic surgical procedure; current evidence indicates that previously-thought prophylactic public health benefits do not out-weigh the potential risks.
*
Provide objective medical information about the risk of complications and potential harm in infant male circumcision.
*
Discuss the new ethical considerations of infant’s rights and proxy consent in a non-therapeutic procedure.
*
Listen to parents and consider the basis of their request, which may be based on religious or cultural practices.
Given the above studies I quoted showing parental decision being made before entering the doctor office, do you think something like this would aid the circumcision fight in the USA?

"Parents are simply trustees; they do not own the bodies of their children"-Norm Cohen  Martial arts instructor intactlact.gifhomebirth.jpgnak.gif and mom to 4: DD1 (1/05) DS (7/06) DD2 (5/08) DD3 (2/11)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wednesday View Post
Unfortunately where I live it seems all the mainstream parents do circ. I know one non-"hippy" mother whose son is intact, she's a pretty independent thinker though. It came up when a bunch of us moms got together once and the other moms were shocked. One was even like "I thought it was required!"

So I'm very skeptical of those statistics, I'd guess the rate is at least 90+ % here. However it's done more often in the pediatrician's office here than in the hospital so that would account for lower rates reported by hospitals.
North Carolina, I believe, dropped medicaid funding of circumcision, so the numbers are probably much lower than you think for that reason alone. I believe the state numbers stand around 60% in NC.

"Parents are simply trustees; they do not own the bodies of their children"-Norm Cohen  Martial arts instructor intactlact.gifhomebirth.jpgnak.gif and mom to 4: DD1 (1/05) DS (7/06) DD2 (5/08) DD3 (2/11)
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