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#1 of 24 Old 09-05-2003, 06:09 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Please, please don't OT bump me. Someone told me this is probably the best place to ask this.

Around April/May ds had a UTI. It was treated with oral antibiotics. He had a kidney and bladder ultrasound, not a VCUG, following it and everything looked normal. Last night he started screaming again and I was pretty positive he had another UTI. We have just switched peds and haven't even had a chance to see the new ped for a well check or anything. Last night I was calling around at midnight to the practice, the ER and I was connected to the new ped's home, he was on call. He told me to give Motrin to get him through the night and to bring him in this morning. So this morning we got up, I called and made an appointment and brought him in. The new ped spent a few minutes discussing what had happened in the past, treatments, etc. He examined ds and told me that the infection was in his penis and that the hole where the urine comes out is too small. He gave a prescription for an ointment, Gentamicin, to be applied 3 times a day. We are going to have to go see a urologist in Lexington. The peds office is making the appointment and will call to let me know when it is. I was talking to my mother earlier and she said that a friend of hers has a ds who had the same problem. She said his mother had to insert a tube into his penis to strech it out. I don't think I can do this! It was horrible just having to hold ds down so I could apply the ointment to his penis. Does anyone have any info about this? What should I expect when I go to the urologists? I really want to be prepared for this.

Ds was 2 on 7/10 and is circ'd, if that makes a difference. I would really appreciate any information that any of you could give me, please.
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#2 of 24 Old 09-05-2003, 08:55 PM
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Sounds like a "Health and Healing" issue to me. Our conversations here tend to revolve around intact boys.
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#3 of 24 Old 09-05-2003, 10:06 PM
 
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I disagree Julie. I dont know what could be done to avoid further surgery on this boy but I do know that this is the best place on Mothering to find a champion for leaving the penis the heck alone.

Just my .02
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#4 of 24 Old 09-05-2003, 10:53 PM
 
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Did they mention anything about "meatal stenosis"? Do they think that's the cause of the infections- the tube is narrowed by scar tissue from the circ?

I'm sorry this happened to your son and I hope they find a quick hopefully painless resolve for it. Reflux and infections and the like can happen to ANYone, but still......
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#5 of 24 Old 09-06-2003, 12:01 AM
 
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Hi there. I am sorry to hear that your little guy is going through this. I have a little bit of information here for you to look at, I hope it helps.
http://www.drgreene.com/21_1137.html
http://www.emedicine.com/ped/topic2356.htm
http://www.cirp.org/library/anatomy/meatus

I hope things work out well for him. Please keep us posted on how he is.
Take care,
Tara

Tara Momma to Callum and Gavin
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#6 of 24 Old 09-06-2003, 01:55 PM
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IMHO, it's kind of like going to the breastfeeding forum and saying, "How can I treat my dd's ear infections since I decided to feed her formula?"
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#7 of 24 Old 09-06-2003, 03:25 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Mamajulie I am sorry I have offended you by coming to your forum and asking a question about my circ'd son that I am seriously concerned about. I have seen people with circ'd boys who have posted here before and got some helpful advice and I thought it was worth a shot. I did not expect to be attacked. If you had looked into meatal stenosis by checking the links or googling the term you would have found that this is a complication of circumcision. Does that meet your criteria for me posting on the board? Since this may be a problem that my son has and could possibly have to endure a inpatient operation for this and have a painful recovery? Does my son's pain over a circumcision complication meet the criteria to be posted on your board now? Does it make you feel good to make me feel bad because I blindly circ'd my son and now he is having a problem because of it? Is this how you are trying to get people to open their eyes and not circumcise their boys? If I have any other male children they will definitely not be circumcised but your opinion of me posting in your forum has definitely not been helpful in me making my decision.

BTW, If I were participating in a breastfeeding forum and a mama of a formula fed baby came in asking a question about ear infections I would most definitely try to provide her information to help if I could. I would definitely NOT jump all over her for not breastfeeding. People don't learn from having their faces stuck in poop. It's called compassion.

I did post about ds being sick in Health and Healing yesterday morning and got 0 responses. I was desperate for some help.

Thanks for those of you who did take the time to reply to me, even if I am a monster who blindly circ'd her boy. Thanks for keeping an open mind and maybe thinking that I could learn from this instead of criticizing and belittling me.
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#8 of 24 Old 09-06-2003, 03:33 PM
 
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Gosh, that's so sad. I'd say just hang in there and see what the urologist has to say. Perhaps there have been advancements in the procedures since your mother's friend's experience?

Maybe you can ask for alternate treatments at the urologist's office and, if need be, ask for a second opinion.

As for this being related to breastfeeding vs formula feeding, I disagree entirely. Phoebe said it best, IMO.

And I really don't see the need for being judgemental and hostile when a mama comes here asking for penis advice - she didn't come to debate circumcizing and none of us knows why she (or her DH) made that decision at the time.
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#9 of 24 Old 09-06-2003, 04:33 PM
 
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Trish:

It doesn't matter how it happened or why it happened. The important thing is that we get your son the help he needs and get this problem resolved as soon as possible.

It sounds 100% like the problem is meatal stenosis and yes, this problem only affects circumcised boys and it affects somewhere between 10% and 30% of them. Sometimes it is hardly noticeable and sometimes it is severe enough to be life threatening.

Meatal stenosis is thought to be caused by the reduced blood flow to the meatal orifice (the opening and "lips" to the urethra) as a result of the freular artery being sealed shut during the application of the circumcision clamp. The meatus is irritated and inflamed by ammonia and abrasion from the diaper and your son's age is when it is most likely. It is a closing of the opening usually from the underside which restricts the flow of urine. You have probably noticed a fine urine stream instead of the normal full flow.

The "tube" your mother spoke of is called a urethral dialator and is inserted into the urethra several times a day to stretch the meatus and keep it open. This is generally an antiquated and painful practice and procedure and usually a meatotomy is performed now. This is a simple in-office surgical procedure that cuts the junction between the urethra and glans. It only takes a few seconds and is usually very effective. Be forewarned that doctors have very little consideration for the pain of this procedure and are likely to try to do it with no pain medication. Do not allow this to happen. Insist that you be there for the procedure. If the doctor will not allow this, find another doctor!

There will be after care that you will need to follow. Be sure your son gets pain management even if it is only Baby Tylenol for at least several days. After the procedure, you will need to keep vaseline or another barrier cream on it to keep the two sides from sticking together and having the same problem again. You will need to continue this treatment until at least when he is fully potty trained and at least for a year after the procedure. After that, watch him closely after swimming sessions or any other time that there may be a possibility of irritation at the tip of his penis. Your doctor will be able to make suggestions of the best ointment for this purpose.

This is a problem that may follow your son for life and as soon as he is able to understand, explain to him to let you know if there are any problems or irritation in that area and treat them immediately and until there is no longer any sign of irritation. I know that a mother does not look forward to rubbing cream on her son's penis after every swim party but the problem can return even up to adulthood and an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

For now, as long as he is able to completely empty his bladder, there is no problem. However, if you see that he is not emptying his bladder, get him to an emergency room as soon as possible. There is the possibility of kidney or bladder damage or even death. As long as he can empty his bladder, there is no danger.

The best of luck to you and your son and a speedy recovery for him!





Frank
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#10 of 24 Old 09-06-2003, 08:29 PM
 
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((((Trish)))) I'm sorry your poor baby is going through this!! I don't have any advice, but wanted to offer support. You are not a monster for circ'ing your son, just human. I'm sorry that some people's passion blinds their sense of compassion. I think Frank has an amazing wealth of kowledge and it sounds like you got some useful advice.
Thinking of you and baby, and I hope he gets through this with minimal pain!!

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#11 of 24 Old 09-06-2003, 08:54 PM
 
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WHAT THE HECK got into your cornflakes mamajulie? This most certainly IS the best place to ask this question here... there are a LOT of people here who are very familiar with these types of problems and the most conservative respectful way to treat this issues. Where the heck else are you going to find a bunch of people who even know what meatal stenosis IS? This is not the place to be snarky over the past. What's going on today is the only issue. This mom needs some support and she should get some!


Trish- You did get some good info if you managed to get to it. I also think what your son has is Meatal Stenosis, it is treatable, but it may require surgery and that surgery may change the look of the meatus (make it very large)

The article on E-medicine is probably the best for giving you the rund down on the treatment and the cause.

You need to understand that this is something that happend because he was circumcisied, that means it's Iotragenic- "caused by the hands of the Dr." If I was you, I would be collecting the birth records for a lawsuit. I am sure the hospital consent form did not clearly explain this risk to you. The AAP also tried to hide this risk from you. The AAP should be sued along with the hospital and the circumcising Dr. Part of the settlemnt should be the reform of the informed consent policy.

the AAP says that Meatal stenosis is one of the complications of circ (they list 20) but they give a grand total of complications at like .2% ... well Meatal stenosis happens to like one in 10 circumcised boys- it's totally common- so the AAP lied. they need to be accountable for the way they PROMOTE circumcision by hiding facts from parents. facts about how their child could be effected.


there is a thread from a while back on this subject too... I'll see if I can find it.... I'm sorry, but in that thread the OP says some stuff that may not be comforting to you... apparently her DH had surgery to correct meatal stenosis and it was a very dramatic alteration.... I do not think all meatal stenosis cases are fixed so radically... but what is tricky is the "tube" of the urethra- immediatly behind the pee hole- it really widens up into a large cavity and then narrows again inside the shaft of the penis... if you slit a teeny bit at the tip- it can open up a very large opning.

http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...ghlight=meatal
old thread

http://www.iatrogenic.org/index.html
Dr. harm

http://www.arclaw.org/
lawers

AAP lies
http://www.aap.org/policy/re9850.html

"The true incidence of complications after newborn circumcision is unknown.32 Reports of two large series have suggested that the complication rate is somewhere between 0.2% and 0.6%.33,34 Most of the complications that do occur are minor.35 The most frequent complication, bleeding, is seen in ~0.1% of circumcisions.35 It is quite rare to need transfusion after a circumcision because most bleeding episodes can be handled quite well with local measures (pressure, hemostatic agents, cautery, sutures). Infection is the second most common of the complications, but most of these infections are minor and are manifest only by some local redness and purulence.33 There also are isolated case reports of other complications such as recurrent phimosis, wound separation, concealed penis, unsatisfactory cosmesis because of excess skin, skin bridges, urinary retention, meatitis, meatal stenosis, chordee, inclusion cysts, and retained Plastibell devices.35 Case reports have been noted associating circumcision with such rare events as scalded skin syndrome, necrotizing fasciitis, sepsis, and meningitis, as well as with major surgical problems such as urethral fistula, amputation of a portion of the glans penis, and penile necrosis.32,35"


Why does the AAP repetetedly state that the understimated complicaions are MINOR? Do you feel like this is MINOR? I doubt it! I bet you feel like this is pretty major! So why the dismissiv attitude AAP? What is your motivation to underplay the risk these children face?


Drs against circ pinpoint the problems
http://faculty.washington.edu/gcd/DO...r10-15-02.html



Love to you- Sarah
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#12 of 24 Old 09-07-2003, 12:48 AM
 
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{{{{{TRISHACK}}}}

I'm so sorry for the ordeal you and your son are going through.

I'm a mama of 3 girls and don't know much about circ. but, I'll keep your little one in my thoughts.

Hmmm...I so agree with you, when said: "it's about compassion". Some people obviously don't have any. Sorry your were attacked like that. I can never understand why someone would ever want to kick a person when they're down.
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#13 of 24 Old 09-07-2003, 02:53 AM
 
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Sending some healthy vibes over to your son.

Good Luck!

SAHM to the munchkins (14.5, 11.5, 9.5, 3, and almost 2)
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#14 of 24 Old 09-07-2003, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by trishshack
If I have any other male children they will definitely not be circumcised but your opinion of me posting in your forum has definitely not been helpful in me making my decision.

Your son's current problems should convince you to leave future sons intact, regardless of what I say.

I would have been much more welcoming if you had indicated in your first post that you now regret the circ. Honestly, I just expect that of mamas of circ'd boys asking for help in the intact forum. But, I do have deep sympathy for your son (and all circ'd boys), and I'm glad that Frank was able to give you such in-depth information. He is wonderful. I wish your son the best.

I also agree with the previous poster about looking into suing the circumciser. Either now, because of the problems, or when your son is 18. (All circ'd boys can sue at 18, regardless of whether or not there were any problems.) You can go to www.noharmm.org and read about litigation. They also have a link to Attorneys Against Circumcision--an organization that can perhaps help you.

I really had no idea--until I read Frank's post--that this is such a serious and wide-spread problem of circ'd boys. It makes me even more furious that our society continues to let this happen. So, I learned something from your thread, and I guess that means that you were in the right place after all.
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#15 of 24 Old 09-07-2003, 10:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by mamajulie
Your son's current problems should convince you to leave future sons intact, regardless of what I say.

I would have been much more welcoming if you had indicated in your first post that you now regret the circ. Honestly, I just expect that of mamas of circ'd boys asking for help in the intact forum.
WTH??? Why on earth should someone need to ease YOUR mind when they are simply asking for help. It is ACTUALLY NONE OF YOUR business if she has come to that conclusion or not, and it most definately should not be a requirement to post a question on any forum!!! I hope you never make a mistake due to lack of information...I wouldn't want you to be treated the way you have treated this mama!!!!! This board is about support, and MDC is community, please try to be more compassionate!!!

That's all I'm gonna say....walking away in disgust....

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#16 of 24 Old 09-08-2003, 12:58 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by mamajulie
I'm glad that Frank was able to give you such in-depth information. He is wonderful. I wish your son the best.
Frank is definitely an integral part of this community, not only because of his male point of view, but his vast wealth of knowledge on every aspect of doctor-caused problems regarding circumcision.

The ability to express thoughts verbally in a compassionate manner and transferring those into the written word can indeed prove challenging.

Please don't refer to any of My Earliest Postings

IMHO the offending remarks have been addressed in the questioned poster's last comment.
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#17 of 24 Old 09-08-2003, 09:23 PM
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Mamamoo,
I get to post my opinions, just as you get to post yours.

Thank you, Laila, and thanks to the mama who PM'd me in agreement, as well.

But enough of taking away from the OP.
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#18 of 24 Old 09-08-2003, 09:58 PM
 
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It's truely not the opinions that bother me, it's the lack of compassion, and the entitlement, but whatever.

Single mama to Alex(13), Maddy(12), Sam(8), Violet(6), and Ruby(3). fly-by-nursing1.gif
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#19 of 24 Old 09-09-2003, 12:32 AM
 
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trishshack,
i hope all ends well with your baby! sending you lots of love.
keep us updated!
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#20 of 24 Old 09-11-2003, 10:51 PM
 
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Be forewarned that doctors have very little consideration for the pain of this procedure and are likely to try to do it with no pain medication. Do not allow this to happen. Insist that you be there for the procedure. If the doctor will not allow this, find another doctor!
Thanks Frank, this was one of my major concerns. I'm sure Trish has thought of the pain issue, but I am glad you empowered her to find a new doc if her's is not sensitive.

Quote:
Thank you, Laila, and thanks to the mama who PM'd me in agreement, as well.
Mamajulie- I am in shock! I have never seen you post this way! I mean the way you have throughout this thread. I think that this last comment was really innappropriate, you can thank that mama in a pm, obviously she had the sense to keep her judgemental thoughts to herself! Like I said, i am really in shock, for someone who is so compassionate about children, it seems you are jumping to conclusions with other mamas. It doesn't seem in line with some of your other postings. I am guessing you are ?? : I can't find anything else to explain it, since it seems out of your nature.

mamamoo, you are a well spoken mama.

Lastly, and most importantly, Trish, I am so sorry you and your ds are going throught his. The combination of guilt, and sympathy for poor ds must be overwhelming. I can relate to that a lot. I agree with Sarah that you should look into suing the hospital. I don't know anyything about penises really, () maybe a bit, but none that can help you. If there is anything I can do to help, please LMK.
Lauren
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#21 of 24 Old 09-12-2003, 09:19 AM
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Veganmama, you're right.

Trish, I'm sorry. I came across much more offensive than I meant to be. Obviously (at least other people have made it obvious--I haven't done such a good job of making it obvious) you are welcome to be here.

I'm so sorry for your son. I sincerely hope you sue that doc. Not that the money would change the situation, but at least it would send the message to that doc and perhaps society.

As Sarah already mentioned, go to www.arclaw.org (attorneys against circumcision)

You're dealing with enough and I know you didn't need the added stress from me. Sorry.
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#22 of 24 Old 09-18-2003, 11:34 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well ds' appointment was today and he does not have meatal stenosis. The urologist said that the hole is the size it should be. He does have an inguinal hernia and epispadias (his urethral opening is a little higher than it should be). The inguinal hernia needs to be repaired. The epispadias is not severe but it could cause problems when he begins to use the bathroom standing up. The urologist discussed this with me and I decided to allow him to fix it while ds was being operated on for the inguinal hernia. After the surgery is over, while he is still under, he will have a catheter inserted and be taken to have a VCUG performed to see if urine is backflowing towards his kidneys and causing the infections. Thanks for all of the advice and support but it looks like the condtions are congenital.
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#23 of 24 Old 09-19-2003, 10:17 AM
 
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Thank you for the update Trish. I hope that the surgery is a sucess and that he recovers fast.

Love Sarah
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#24 of 24 Old 09-20-2003, 08:56 PM
 
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Well, I just browsed this thread and read your update. You must be exhausted! I do hope the surgery is a sucess also.
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