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#1 of 17 Old 04-28-2008, 04:41 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I have no clue what to do! I know that I would never have my son cicumcised in the hospital but I am still on the fence on if I want to have it done at all. I believe that how a child is born into the world is how they should remain but I have i no clue which is cleaner or easier for a young boy to take care of. Someone please help me. I read the article on case against circuncision but still have no clue.
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#2 of 17 Old 04-28-2008, 04:52 PM
 
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A circumsicion must be cleaned and cared for like any other wound. Add to that, the constant exposure to feces and urine, well, sounds like a challenge to me.
My 2 boys are both intact. Ages 3yrs and 18mnths. It is easier to clean them than it was their older sister. The intact penis is virtually "self-cleaning".
BTW my husband is also intact and 38yrs old. Despite nearly 20yrs of Army field problems and weeks without showers, cleanliness has never been an issue for him.

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#3 of 17 Old 04-28-2008, 04:53 PM
 
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It's not difficult at all to care for an intact penis (certaintly not harder than caring for an intact vulva). All you need to do is clean it like you would a finger. There are NO benifits to having your son's foreskin removed and it's removing an integral part of his genitalia for nothing. Lots of pain for no gain.

At the top of this forum there are tons of links to really great info, I would start reading and make sure you watch a video so you know exactly what is done during a circumcision.

OUR DAUGHTERS ARE PROTECTED SHOULDN'T OUR SONS BE TOO! :
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#4 of 17 Old 04-28-2008, 04:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by myangelk View Post
I have no clue what to do! I know that I would never have my son cicumcised in the hospital but I am still on the fence on if I want to have it done at all. I believe that how a child is born into the world is how they should remain but I have i no clue which is cleaner or easier for a young boy to take care of. Someone please help me. I read the article on case against circuncision but still have no clue.
The foreskin is normal, healthy, sensitive, functional tissue---just like your labia and clitoris and clitoral hood. Not one part of your perfect baby boy's penis is extra or disposable. The foreskin actually protects the tip of the penis (the glans) and the peehole (meatus), helping keep foreign material and germs out. The only care that's needed is washing the outside like you would a finger, and then when he's older and can retract his own foreskin comfortably, care is still super quick and easy: Retract, Rinse, Replace. When babies are born the foreskin is snug and fused to the head of the penis so nobody should try to pull it back at all...not to check, peek, stretch, or clean---not you or a care provider. Some doctors and nurses are ignorant about normal male genitals and foreskin development, so you may have to be on your guard and be ready to educate them if necessary.

If you circumcise, his glans---internal, mucousal tissue like the surface of your clitoris---will be constantly exposed to air and clothing and over time will dry out and build up additional protective layers of skin, essentially a callous; this reduces pleasure. Circumcision removes 3-4 feet of blood vessels, 240 feet of nerves, and tens of thousands of specialized nerve endings. Circumcised boys have a 71% risk of penile adhesions (where the remaining skin reattaches to the glans) and a 10% risk of meatal stenosis (the unprotected peehole becomes ulcerated and scarred).

Other people will provide some good resources, I'm sure...but this isn't something you need to be on the fence about any more. Your son will be born healthy and normal; why mess with perfection?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmX6RdRNoqk

Jen
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#5 of 17 Old 04-28-2008, 05:49 PM
 
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I have 2 boys, ages 11 years and 9 mos. Both are intact, and both were/are significantly easier to care for than their sisters were while in diapers. We haven't had any problems, either medically or hygienically--care is really very simple (wipe gently from top to tip, not pulling back AT ALL, if needed during diaper changes, let them play lots in the bathtub).

My nephew is circumcised, and I've heard some horror stories from my SIL about diaper changes/circ care during the first few weeks. Even recently (he only just potty-trained), his dirty diapers were much harder to clean up from properly--there are wrinkles around his circ scar that caught everything, and he'd get bad rashes if they weren't thoroughly cleaned out . As a result, his diaper changes seemed to take about half again as long as either of my boys' changes.

As far as some of the other commonly-given reasons for circing (although you didn't mention them in your post) we've never had any problems there either. My DH is circ'ed, and neither he nor the boys have any issue with their different states--when my older boy was younger, he was far more aware of size differences and body hair than anything else . Once he hit school, I worried a bit that he'd get teased for being intact; however, it's probably the one thing that's never even been an issue (they tease about everything else under the sun, of course--hair color, height, being friends with a girl, NOT being friends with a girl, having little sisters...pre-adolescent boys can be rather beastly to each other, honestly .

All in all, I've never regretted leaving my sons as they were meant to be, and have found their intact penises much easier to take care of than those of the circ'd boys that I have cared for.

Good luck--I know that it can feel like an intimidating choice when you first begin researching the issue, but I found that when you really take it down to the basics, it becomes pretty simple.
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#6 of 17 Old 04-28-2008, 09:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by myangelk View Post
I have no clue what to do! I know that I would never have my son cicumcised in the hospital but I am still on the fence on if I want to have it done at all. I believe that how a child is born into the world is how they should remain but I have i no clue which is cleaner or easier for a young boy to take care of. Someone please help me. I read the article on case against circuncision but still have no clue.
Congratulations on taking the time to look into this. As has been said previously there is really nothing to do. An intact boy is not difficult to take care of, just wipe like a finger or sit him in the bath it really isn't difficult. And it doesn't get any harder the older he gets so it really is a non issue. Is that all you're concerned about? Please feel free to ask for any clarification or more questions, you would be doing your son a great service leaving him as he was born.
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#7 of 17 Old 04-28-2008, 09:15 PM
 
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Hi there and congrats on your baby boy to be! To answer your question, an intact boy is easier to care for than a circed boy. In fact, he is easier than even a girl baby.

Here is a link that compares the early care of both circed and intact:
http://www.cirp.org/library/complications/vanhowe/

And here are a couple of links that outline the care for each individually:
http://www.nocirc.org/publish/4pam.pdf
http://www.nocirc.org/publish/5pam.pdf

I have two intact sons and they are healthy, and happy in their intact states. They have never had issues with their intact penis' when it comes to health or cleanliness. It is just another normal part of their body. Nothing to be concerned about.

I hope this eases your mind a bit.
Take care,
Tara

Tara Momma to Callum and Gavin
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#8 of 17 Old 04-28-2008, 11:05 PM
 
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Please click on my signature link to watch a very informational video on the values of the foreskin. It's very much worth the view! You seem to be already be pro-natural and just a little scared of the unknown (the maintenance, actually LACK OF any required maintenance of the intact penis).

http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi...o/prepuce.html

You wipe it like a finger when not retractable and the three 'r's (retract, rinse, replace) when retractable. Remember: NOCIRC.org indicates that the average age of retractability is now ten (10). So also PLEASE don't buy into that "oh, he must be retractable by age 3" b.s.
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#9 of 17 Old 04-28-2008, 11:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I think from what I have read and the advice from everyone, I am not going to circ. However, like I said I have no idea what I am doing, as this is my first boy. I would really like some advice on the maintainence and care(cleaning) of an intact son. Please any and all advice is welcome. Thanks for all the help.
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#10 of 17 Old 04-28-2008, 11:53 PM
 
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Cleaning like others have said is super easy wipe like a finger from base to tip. Dont EVER push the foreskin back and never allow anyone else to do so. Please look at the Warning Sticky at the top of the forum as well as the Definition of Retraction one for details on why. In all honesty the hardest part to clean on a boy is the scrotum it is so wrinkly and mushy The penis is a peice of cake compaired to that.

Whether done in a hospital or not the child will be in pain and he will loose a very valuable part of his genitals.

Here is a long list of reasons to keep your ds intact. I know it is long but it is well worth the read. And please ask any questions that is what we are here for.

Bottom line though is the owner of the penis should decide wether to cut bits off it or not.

Reasons to leave your son intact:

- The owner of the penis should be the one to decide what to do with it.

-The foreskin, not the head, is the most sensitive part of the normal, intact penis.

- The movable shaft skin of an intact penis facilitates intercourse, reducing friction and prolonging pleasurable sex for both male and female.

- The foreskin aids in foreplay; lubricants are optional.

- An intact penis will have no circumcision scar, will often have less hair drawn up onto it shaft, and will on average be somewhat larger than a circumcised penis.

- The foreskin protects and lubricates the head or “glans” of the penis for the life of its owner. The glans or the head of the penis was never meant to be a external organ it should be inside the foreskin to protect it and keep it sensitive.

-80-85% of the world’s male population has intact genitals, including nearly all European males (please note that HIV/AIDS rates are actually lower in Europe than in America). Circumcision does NOT prevent AIDS wearing a condom does.

-Male circumcision permanently diminishes the sexual feelings for both male and female.

- When people from non circumcising countries hear that we in the USA still do it they are usually shocked, and often don't believe it to be true.

- Care of the intact infant penis is actually much easier as there is no wound care, you just wash it like a finger, it should never be retracted by anyone other than the child. The age it becomes retractable varies greatly normal range is childhood to adulthood.

- The foreskin contains three to four feet of blood vessels, 240 feet of nerves, and 10-20,000 specialized nerve endings.

- When the foreskin is removed 30-50% of sexual pleasure goes with it. Because 30-50% of the total penile skin is removed during a RIC depending on the Dr. and the type of circumcision that is done.

-The circumcision rate in the USA has fallen from 90% in 1970 to roughly 56% today.

-Circumcisions was originally introduced in the country in the late 1800s to prevent masturbation. It has since been touted as the cure for all sorts of ailments - all of which have been scientifically disprovable. Including but not limited to it being a cure for baldness, mental illness, cancer etc. Etc.

The History of Circumcision
http://www.historyofcircumcision.net...tpage&Itemid=1

Warning disturbing pictures "The medicalization of circumcision"
http://www.icgi.org/medicalization_o...ion.htm#Page_1

A Short History of Circumcision in the U.S.A (this one is really scary when you read it)
http://www.sexuallymutilatedchild.org/shorthis.htm

The Ritual of Circumcision
http://www.noharmm.org/paige.htm

-Cutting off the foreskin cuts off the most sensitive, erotic, pleasurable part of a man’s body. The foreskin plays a very important role in sex. Men who were circumcised later in life compare circed sex/intact sex to someone who is color blind they can see just fine but the full "color" is missing.

-Circumcision is almost NEVER medically necessary. The only true medical reasons for circ are, frostbite, gangrene and cancer (all of those would be extremely rare) The incidence for necessary medical circumcisions is less that 0.05%. Circumcision for phimosis should only be done as a last resort. After trying stretching, steroid cream and a dorsel slit.

-No medical organization anywhere recommends routine infant circ.
Here is a list of statements from several countries including the USA and Canada.
http://www.cirp.org/library/statements/

- Circumcision is EXTREMELY painful, even if anesthetic is administered. Studies have proved that babies feel pain even more acutely than an adult would. It is a very great breech of trust for a baby to be taken from his parents and cut. It is very violating. Long after any anesthesia that might(most only get a sugar dipped rag or paci to suck on) have been used wears off there is still a raw open wound sitting in urine and feces with no pain relief.

-The intact penis, if left alone, has no greater risk for UTI's, STD's, Penile Cancer, HIV, causing Cervical Cancer in women.

UTI myth http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/UTI/
http://www.nocirc.org/statements/breastfeeding.php
Quote:
In fact, UTI's are so rare in any case that, using Wiswell's data, 50 to 100 healthy boys would have to be circumcised in order to prevent a UTI from developing in only one patient. (Using more recent data from a better-controlled study, the number of unnecessary operations needed to prevent one hospital admission for UTI would jump to 195.
FORESKINS: Seek Elsewhere for Infants' Urinary Tract Infections
http://www.cirp.org/news/1997.12.22_PhysiciansWeekly/


UTI Neonatal circumcision revisited
http://www.cps.ca/english/statements...ION%20OF%20UTI

The incidence of Geniturinary abnormalities in circumcised and uncircumcised presenting with an initial urinary tract infection by 6 months of age
http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/UTI/mueller/
- Girls have a much greater risk of UTIs, yet we don't cut off parts of their genitals to prevent them.
Cancer Society:http://www.cancer.org/docroot/CRI/co...evented_35.asp
Quote:
In the past, circumcision has been suggested as a way to prevent penile cancer. This suggestion was based on studies that reported much lower penile cancer rates among circumcised men than among uncircumcised men. However, most researchers now believe those studies were flawed because they failed to consider other factors that are now known to affect penile cancer risk.
http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/cancer/
Quote:
Gellis (1978) said there are more deaths from circumcision than from cancer of the penis.8
Boczko et al . found numerous reports of penile cancer in circumcised men, thus conclusively disproving Wolbarst's false claims of protection from penile cancer by circumcision.9
In "Circumcision: An American Health Fallacy," Edward Wallerstein writes14: "If infant circumcision reduces penile cancer we could expect to see proportionately less penile cancer in circumcising nations as compared to non-circumcising ones. No such difference is found."
Quote:
******* established quite clearly that there was little evidence to support a relationship between lack of circumcision and penile cancer, cervical cancer, or cancer of the prostate in 1970 but he was unable to identify the causative agent at that time,6 while Leitch did the same in Australia.
Circumcision and AIDS/HIV
http://www.circumstitions.com/HIV.html
http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/HIV/ http://www.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab003362.html
http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi...Statement.html

Comparison of North America to other non-circ countries HIV status
http://www.avert.org/america.htm
http://www.avert.org/worldstats.htm
- The times the intact penis has trouble are when it is forcefully retracted before it is ready. The penis should only be retracted by its owner, when he’s ready. It is normal to not be retractable until after puberty. It is not a problem.

- Circumcision is SURGERY and as such poses significant risks of infection to the wound.
Possible complications include but are not limited to:
  • Infections;
  • Botched circumcisions that have to be redone;
  • To tight circumcisions that cause extreme pain with erection;
  • Hair on the shaft;
  • Loss of sensation in the glans (head), it becomes keratinized (hardened) without the foreskin; (this one always happens)
  • Amputation of the part or all of the penis;
  • Ruptured stomach, bladder, and or intestines from crying so hard;
  • Skin bridges(very common)
  • Adhesions(very common)
  • Scaring on the penis shaft(very common)
  • Meatal Stenosis http://www.cirp.org/library/complications/persad/ around 10-15% of circs result in this complication if not more.
  • DEATH (I have read that as many as 5 infants die every year from circ complications)
and much much more.
It is estemated that between 10-15% of all males will have at least 1 or more of the complications listed above. But none of these side effects are present when leaving a boy intact.

Links of pictures Warning graphic pictures
http://www.circumstitions.com/Restric/Botched1sb.html
http://www.noharmm.org/IDcirc.htm

- There are NO medical benefits with routine infant circumcision. It is a cosmetic surgery, and as such more insurance companies will NOT pay for it.

- Circumcision is big business in the US. Several billions of dollars every year. Doctors are very invested in keeping the circumcision myths alive.

- A single doctor can make $20,000 a year doing circumcisions.

- A little known fact is that foreskins are then resold to the highest bidder. They are used in cosmetics, skin growth for grafting, cancer treatments and much more. The after life of foreskins is also a multi billion dollar a year industry. Parents are not told about this. There is no informed consent. Certainly the foreskins owner doesn’t have a say in the matter.

- “Every boy born in the US has a $300 coupon attached to his foreskin. All you have to do is cut it off to redeem.”

- Circumcision should only be performed on consenting adults who know all that is entailed.

-What if your son wants his foreskin?

- A lot of men are very angry when they find out the truth and feel very violated. (like my husband.)

- How would you feel if someone cut off your clitoris and labia without asking you? They do it in Africa all the time. We are horrified when little girls are mutilated. Why not when little boys? FGM type one, the most common form of female circumcision, only removes the covering of the clitoris and some of the labia. Those parts directly corrilate to the foreskin on a male penis.

- It causes immense trauma & physical pain to a brand new baby who just had to undergo birth. Often times a baby will suddenly cease crying and so the Doctors say it doesn't hurt them. It does - they are in shock.

- Smegma isn’t bad or gross. It is the Greek word for soap. Women have it too. It helps keep everything clean and healthy. No intact boy should be forcefully retracted just to clean it out. It’s supposed to be there!

- When they separate the foreskin from the glans it is similar to ripping off your fingernails. Than they crush the foreskin and cut it off. They also stimulate an erection so they “know where to cut.” A boys first sexual experience is one of great pain and trauma.

Common myths you may hear from others and even Dr's:

http://www.udonet.com/circumcision/v...ty_of_men.html

Side by side comparison of MGM & FGM
http://www.circumstitions.com/FGMvsMGM.html


 
SAHMlady.gifread.giflovin' trekkie.giffan intactivist.gifwinner.jpg to loveeyes.gifenergy.gifDD 10/00 & superhero.gifmoon.gifDS 10/04 ribbonpb.gifIf your ds is intact, keep him safe, visit the Case Against Circ forumnocirc.gifCirc, a personal choice, Your sonsyes.gifbrokenheart.gif11/98brokenheart.gif6/99ribbonbrown.gifanti-tobaccoribbonyellow.gifThyroid cancer survivor. With cat.gif& goldfish.gif & (Boxer)dog2.gif wishing 4 whale.gif&ribbonwhite.gifsigncirc1.gifselectivevax.gifdelayedvax.gif

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#11 of 17 Old 04-28-2008, 11:56 PM
 
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Once your ds is old enough and is retractable, he can retract, rinse with water, replace that is all there is to it no scrubbing not soap even needed since it can irritate.

Until he is old enough to do this without help then it isnt needed at all. Just like the vagina it is a self cleaning organ.

 
SAHMlady.gifread.giflovin' trekkie.giffan intactivist.gifwinner.jpg to loveeyes.gifenergy.gifDD 10/00 & superhero.gifmoon.gifDS 10/04 ribbonpb.gifIf your ds is intact, keep him safe, visit the Case Against Circ forumnocirc.gifCirc, a personal choice, Your sonsyes.gifbrokenheart.gif11/98brokenheart.gif6/99ribbonbrown.gifanti-tobaccoribbonyellow.gifThyroid cancer survivor. With cat.gif& goldfish.gif & (Boxer)dog2.gif wishing 4 whale.gif&ribbonwhite.gifsigncirc1.gifselectivevax.gifdelayedvax.gif

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#12 of 17 Old 04-29-2008, 12:09 AM
 
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Originally Posted by myangelk View Post
I think from what I have read and the advice from everyone, I am not going to circ.


Quote:
Originally Posted by myangelk View Post
However, like I said I have no idea what I am doing, as this is my first boy. I would really like some advice on the maintainence and care(cleaning) of an intact son. Please any and all advice is welcome. Thanks for all the help.
Just echoing others...we never did anything special. Wiping the outside of the penis "like a finger" during diaper changes and soaking in a warm bath was all we ever did.

On the contrary to the cleanliness argument for circ, I always wondered how hard it would be to keep a circ'd boy clean. I mean, I know from experience that BF poop can get anywhere...wouldn't that include inside the urethra without a foreskin to protect it?

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#13 of 17 Old 04-29-2008, 12:10 AM
 
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Originally Posted by myangelk View Post
I think from what I have read and the advice from everyone, I am not going to circ. However, like I said I have no idea what I am doing, as this is my first boy. I would really like some advice on the maintainence and care(cleaning) of an intact son. Please any and all advice is welcome. Thanks for all the help.
Hey Myangelk that is great to hear. Perhaps the most important first tip is to not let anyone retract him. Not the doctors or the nurses or even you. The real secret though is that there isn't much advice to give. There is no special care or difficult cleaning. There have already been so many good references posted you should take sometime to flip through them and know that if ANYTHING or ANY QUESTION pops up be sure just to ask. That's what we're here for.

I am sure the Fleiss article has been posted but here it is again: http://www.mothering.com/articles/ne...uncircson.html
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#14 of 17 Old 04-29-2008, 08:14 AM
 
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Here is good information on caring for a childs normal penis:

http://www.circumstitions.com/Care.html
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#15 of 17 Old 04-29-2008, 11:30 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I just wanted to say thank you to everyone for all of the wonderful advice. I now feel a little more confident in what I am doing. I just kept worrying that poop would get into the gap that covers the glans formed by the foreskin. The whole retraction thing had me confused. Once again, Thank you bunches.
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#16 of 17 Old 04-29-2008, 11:44 AM
 
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I just wanted to say thank you to everyone for all of the wonderful advice. I now feel a little more confident in what I am doing. I just kept worrying that poop would get into the gap that covers the glans formed by the foreskin. The whole retraction thing had me confused. Once again, Thank you bunches.
There is a sphincter on the tip of the foreskin that mostly prevents anything getting in...and if it does, just give him a quick swish in the tub! (had to do this when I babysat a friend's intact son!

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#17 of 17 Old 04-29-2008, 12:30 PM
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if you pm me your email, I'll be happy to send you some great info/studies.
yulia.
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