Well, they did it and I am devastated - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 30 Old 05-07-2008, 01:01 AM - Thread Starter
 
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My DH's best friends step-daughter (14 yrs old) just had a baby boy. A few months ago I showed her and her mother the circ video and spoke to them about it. They were shocked at circ and said they would never do that to him. Well, they did it. I am pissed, hurt, sad....I really don't want to see them or talk to them. DH cannot understand why I am so upset. We have been fighting about this since I found out. We are fighting right now. I am so upset and dissapointed.

Oh, and the dad wasn't there al all...so it wasn't his doing.

I am just done.

Rikki ~~ Married Aug 04 ~~ DD Feb 06 ~~ DS Oct 07 ~~ DD April 12

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#2 of 30 Old 05-07-2008, 01:19 AM
 
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Channel your feelings productively. She did not pull out a knife and do this alone. A doctor and probably a hospital conspired to make her think this was her choice to make, when ethically it was not. Doctors have no ethical right to offer this surgery for no medical purpose, and hospitals have no ethical right to facilitate it. They are to blame at least as much as this 14-year old girl. Maybe more, since they have no possible excuse whatsoever for not knowing better.
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#3 of 30 Old 05-07-2008, 01:32 AM
 
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That and- goodness! I can only begin to imagine the effects birth has mentally on a person that age. I suspect that at LEAST she's VERY suseptible to influence of any kind- even after having seen the video.
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#4 of 30 Old 05-07-2008, 01:37 AM
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This is sad but you did your best and had no control over what happened.Don't give up you never know what you will accomplish in the future.she is young and probably was pressured heavily by everyone around her and thought they must be right.Maybe someday she will grow up and regret this and listen to you next time.
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#5 of 30 Old 05-07-2008, 01:41 AM
 
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It's so awful to lose this battle. I lost one a few weeks ago and it devastates me, too.

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#6 of 30 Old 05-07-2008, 03:39 AM
 
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Channel your feelings productively. She did not pull out a knife and do this alone. A doctor and probably a hospital conspired to make her think this was her choice to make, when ethically it was not. Doctors have no ethical right to offer this surgery for no medical purpose, and hospitals have no ethical right to facilitate it. They are to blame at least as much as this 14-year old girl. Maybe more, since they have no possible excuse whatsoever for not knowing better.
I think its true that many parents are tricked into thinking this is a choice they need to make, and that circumcision is "no big deal", but we cant put blame on doctors all the time. The OP laid out the truth for them, they saw the realities of circumcision straight in the face, yet they still decided to do it anyway.

To the OP-
You cant help everyone. No matter how hard you try, some people are just too deeply dug into their culture to see facts. But she was young, and her mother was scared too, and when people are scared they trust in society. Doing something that is different takes a lot of courage, and that girl had very little spare. When she is older, when she has a clearer head, she will look back on this and see the mistake she made. And if she ever gives another go at parenting when she is older, you probably have saved future sons. At the very least, you planted seeds in two minds in this world. Be proud of that, know that every little action you make adds up. And change is often not about grand gestures, but lots of little actions made by many people. Remember that.
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#7 of 30 Old 05-07-2008, 03:43 AM
 
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Channel your feelings productively. She did not pull out a knife and do this alone. A doctor and probably a hospital conspired to make her think this was her choice to make, when ethically it was not. Doctors have no ethical right to offer this surgery for no medical purpose, and hospitals have no ethical right to facilitate it. They are to blame at least as much as this 14-year old girl. Maybe more, since they have no possible excuse whatsoever for not knowing better.
:

You did not fail. If you hadn't said anything, and the baby got circ'd, then yeah, I'd feel rotten too. But I do understand your pain. I really really do. You tried. Maybe she won't do this to her other ds's.

I encourage you to stay close to this young mother. You can still help build for her a strong healthy backbone. I honestly believe she was prepared to say no and probably did but fell for their medical scam during her weakest moment. Many moms have said "no" but were asked until the hospital got the answer they wanted. It should never be like that. Saying "No" once should be enough. Even a "I really don't think this is a good idea" (the very words I said) should be a NO and DON'T ASK AGAIN!


I'm so sorry this happened. Its okay to be angry and frustrated. Let it all out mama. You can cry on my cyber shoulder if you need to.

Damn greedy medical mutilating B@$T@RDS.
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#8 of 30 Old 05-07-2008, 04:37 AM
 
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I am so sorry...

I am so sorry the baby had to go through this but you did your best and that's what is important. I too believed she was brainwashed after giving birth, who knows how tired she was and how they approached to her with their excuses of circ her boy. oh Jesus...

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#9 of 30 Old 05-07-2008, 04:55 AM
 
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Ok, I don't know if it's just me, but somehow the whole circ. bothers me much less, given the fact that a 14 year old just had a baby. First at 14 I really did not have an opinion on circ, except for the fact that I liked being intact. So, what I thought was pretty biased and whatever decisions I made at that time were solely based on my culture, belief systems, values, etc, and I would have had little incentive to go against those beliefs even if presented with other info. So, I am not surprised by the whole circ. thing. I think that it's much more devastating that a 14 YEAR OLD just had a baby. Essentially her life is now over or its going to be very difficult. The prospects for the child are the not the best either. Yes, he was circed. and I hate when anybody does that, but frankly, there are much bigger potential problems here that people should be concerned about.

So, in situations like these, nobody should be devastated by the outcome. Frankly, it's much more horrible when an informed adult or somebody who is just plain stubborn go through the procedure. Again, I would not expect a 14 year old to successfully to contemplate all the factors in play here, given that she was stupid enough (sorry for being blunt) to have unsafe sex at 13.
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#10 of 30 Old 05-07-2008, 10:11 AM
 
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I am so sorry. It is always such a difficult thing when you try your best to tell people about circ and they still go ahead and do it.

I think there's a good chance that a doctor or nurse at the hospital may have gotten to her and convinced her that circ was the right thing to do. Being so young and also going through childbirth, she was probably very scared and vulnerable to listen to anything any of the hospital personnel told her.

Still, you should feel proud that you were able to talk to her about circ and give her a lot to think about. It would have been so easy to say nothing, but you didn't. Perhaps you have planted a seed in her mind, and if she goes on to have more sons later, she won't circ them.
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#11 of 30 Old 05-07-2008, 11:14 AM
 
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Again, I would not expect a 14 year old to successfully to contemplate all the factors in play here, given that she was stupid enough (sorry for being blunt) to have unsafe sex at 13.
I don't know the girl we're talking about, but how do you know she was having unsafe sex? It's an assumption you're making -- condoms fail, birth control fails, and who knows what kind of sex education she received. I just get a little irritated when we say someone is "stupid" for getting pregnant when it can happen to anyone at any age.
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#12 of 30 Old 05-07-2008, 11:18 AM
 
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I don't think that this is ever safe to assume, considering women can get pregnant from sex that is non-consensual
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#13 of 30 Old 05-07-2008, 12:23 PM
 
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It could have been the case that after seeing the video, the ONLY thing that made them decide not to circ was the pain the baby endured. Of course, if that was mentioned at the hospital, the assurance that "pain relief" or "anesthesia" would be used would be enough to change a mind. "Oh, he won't feel a thing!" "Most sleep right through it."

With my sister, BIL and sis decided against it BECAUSE OF THE PAIN ONLY, but once sis' ob/gyn told her "Oh, but we use anesthesia!" then it was a non-issue. Baby would be circ'd. Period.

Now I know that I need to tell people of the function of the foreskin, complications, and dish out a little more info than just the pain aspect.

(After my nephew's circ, my mother called me at home to tell me that we should get DS (then 7 months old!!!) circed because they use pain relief now! I quickly explained to her all the reasons I would NEVER do that to my son, pain relief or not.)
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#14 of 30 Old 05-07-2008, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, last night after I found this out, I decided it was time to stop tip-toeing around SIL and her pregnancy. Both her DH and mine are intact yet SIL asked me (during a conversation about a certain doc at her hospital doing bad circs. I told her just not to circ) "Why wouldn't you circ?"

SO, I sent her an e-mail explaining that I was very upset with our friends decision and that I felt like I didn't give out enough info to protect the boy. I sent her a link to our resource page and a few other links to look at. She is a nurse and has seen them done so I am relying on the function aspect to keep this baby safe. We don't know if it is a boy yet, but I am praying it is a girl so I have more time to teach her.

Oh, and this 14 year has a lot of support from her mother and step-father. One reason I am mad is that her mother was there and was her 'backbone'. We had talked in length about circ. They watched the circ video together, and they watched Penn & Teller as a family. Her mother should have been the rock for her, she should have been the voice of reason.

It seems so easy to me. There is no other choice but to leave the body as it is when it is formed. I cannot understand saying yes to this procedure. I know I am going to go through these feelings again with friends at work. I guess I am in for a lot of dissappointment in my life.

One more thing....It is not my place to say how this young girl got pregnant but I will defend her and say that she was NOT having unprotected sex.

Rikki ~~ Married Aug 04 ~~ DD Feb 06 ~~ DS Oct 07 ~~ DD April 12

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#15 of 30 Old 05-07-2008, 02:20 PM
 
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Just my two cents...you did a great job sharing lots of information with her and her mother. When it came right down to it in the hospital, there probably was pressure from doctors/staff. I work at a hospital in a state where the circ rate is probably just under 60%. Just for anecdote, the L&D nurses and OBs and CNMs I work with, for our own kids the circ rate is maybe 25%. The provider groups give out big packets of anti-circ info during prenatal visits for parents who want to circ. No-Circ was clearly written in several places on my chart. I don't recall much from when I had my first son, but with my second, the midwife who delivered me, the midwife who rounded on me the next morning and one of the back-up MDs who was rounding on the postpartum unit all asked me if I wanted him circd. I'm pretty outspoken in my opinion of circ at work too, so it wasn't a secret to any of them where I stand on this issue...I just think it has become so ingrained in many providers (nurses too for that matter) that boy=address circ as part of discharge planning. I'm sure a 14 year old girl could be influenced to do almost anything with her baby "because it's better for their health and safe" or whatever BS they fed her and she would have agreed no matter what you may have told her.

Laura...part-time OB nurse, and full-time mom to two sweet boysnocirc.gifintactlact.gif
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#16 of 30 Old 05-07-2008, 02:55 PM
 
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I just went thru a similar experience yesterday and I too am so sad and feel so....empty. My god-daughter had her 1st son last Tuesday. Now she is 28 and a very smart girl. She and I have had many talks about circumcision and she knows that my son Jacob (6) is a natural boy and has never had a minutes trouble with his penis or foreskin. She had seen all info, and a video and agreed that her son would not be mutilated. Well, yesterday her Mom called me crying and said that her daughter had just returned from the Dr's office, 7 days later, and had the baby circumcised. You could hear him screaming in the background. I literally burst into tears. I asked her Mom why in the hell did she do this, and after the boy is 7 days old? She said she is on Medicaid and they would not pay for it and that her husband had to WAIT until he got paid to get it done...I am so sick about this, I don't want to see her or the baby for a while, it is going to take a lot to get over. If you could have just heard his screams, it would break your heart
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#17 of 30 Old 05-07-2008, 03:26 PM
 
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That and- goodness! I can only begin to imagine the effects birth has mentally on a person that age. I suspect that at LEAST she's VERY suseptible to influence of any kind- even after having seen the video.
I agree.

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#18 of 30 Old 05-07-2008, 06:53 PM
 
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To the poster who criticized my post, I ask why was she even having sex?? I have yet to come across a 14 year old who is either emotionally ready to have sex or emotionally/financially ready to have a baby. I am sorry, but this entire scenario is very disturbing. There is clearly something wrong if someone that young is having kids; and I am very surprised that nobody else in this thread has jumped on this topic. I don't usually make judgements, but I should not even have to defend my stance here. It's common sense, even more common than not circing your kid.

Oh, about that SIL, wow, why did the circ. question even come up? Unless her husband is pushing for it (which would be weird), she should know better, given that her husband is intact. Please explain that one to me, because I don't even understand how this could be a question of ignorance. More like stupidity really. Seriously, stories like these and others just feed into that stereotype of "dumb Americans", which more often than not tends to be true. Now, of course, this does not concern anybody on here, and it seems that nearly half of American parents are getting smart about the circ. decision. So, I have much hope.
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#19 of 30 Old 05-07-2008, 07:26 PM
 
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To the poster who criticized my post, I ask why was she even having sex??
I don't know and it doesn't matter to me. I see it as an immaterial question or something kind of off-topic -- she's already gotten pregnant and has had the baby, you can't turn that back. Aren't we talking about circing here?

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There is clearly something wrong if someone that young is having kids; and I am very surprised that nobody else in this thread has jumped on this topic. I don't usually make judgements, but I should not even have to defend my stance here. It's common sense, even more common than not circing your kid.
What's common sense about it? It's pretty hard to keep your kid from having sex (trust me, my parents tried like crazy and it didn't work), but at least she was protected. What is "common sense" about having birth control methods fail? Last time I checked that doesn't just happen to teenagers. Maybe no one else has jumped on the topic because we're talking about circumcision? I don't make judgments on anyone, especially since there are over 100,000 members on MDC from all walks of life, and it's not my place to say that someone who got pregnant unintentionally at 14 (or any age) is "stupid." We all make mistakes, and that is a big one, but I don't see how judging someone is going to make the situation better or offer any answers. The damage has already been done, so to speak.
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#20 of 30 Old 05-07-2008, 10:18 PM
 
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I just went thru a similar experience yesterday and I too am so sad and feel so....empty. My god-daughter had her 1st son last Tuesday. Now she is 28 and a very smart girl. She and I have had many talks about circumcision and she knows that my son Jacob (6) is a natural boy and has never had a minutes trouble with his penis or foreskin. She had seen all info, and a video and agreed that her son would not be mutilated. Well, yesterday her Mom called me crying and said that her daughter had just returned from the Dr's office, 7 days later, and had the baby circumcised. You could hear him screaming in the background. I literally burst into tears. I asked her Mom why in the hell did she do this, and after the boy is 7 days old? She said she is on Medicaid and they would not pay for it and that her husband had to WAIT until he got paid to get it done...I am so sick about this, I don't want to see her or the baby for a while, it is going to take a lot to get over. If you could have just heard his screams, it would break your heart
Aw, I'm sorry Amanda. They're so f-ing, f-ing STUPID.

Uh, let's see.... work hard to PAY someone to MUTILATE your son. :

If YOU were a male child, what would YOU want: To be left intact and have that money that WOULD HAVE been used for your mutilation, put in the bank or some kind of savings bond or some kind of toy or useful posession... or to have your penis permanently mutilated against your will???
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#21 of 30 Old 05-08-2008, 02:33 AM
 
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I've BTDT. It absolutely makes me sick, the newest little boy I know who got cut is only about... 3 weeks old. I cannot understand how parents can allow this to happen. It makes no sense to me at all. You did nothing wrong though, the decision wasn't yours to make unfortunately. All we can do is try our hardest, and teach OUR children. At least the cycle breaks with them, kwim?
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#22 of 30 Old 05-08-2008, 04:08 PM
 
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she's already gotten pregnant and has had the baby, you can't turn that back.
totally agree...

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I just went thru a similar experience yesterday and I too am so sad and feel so....empty. My god-daughter had her 1st son last Tuesday. Now she is 28 and a very smart girl. She and I have had many talks about circumcision and she knows that my son Jacob (6) is a natural boy and has never had a minutes trouble with his penis or foreskin. She had seen all info, and a video and agreed that her son would not be mutilated. Well, yesterday her Mom called me crying and said that her daughter had just returned from the Dr's office, 7 days later, and had the baby circumcised. You could hear him screaming in the background. I literally burst into tears. I asked her Mom why in the hell did she do this, and after the boy is 7 days old? She said she is on Medicaid and they would not pay for it and that her husband had to WAIT until he got paid to get it done...I am so sick about this, I don't want to see her or the baby for a while, it is going to take a lot to get over. If you could have just heard his screams, it would break your heart
omg this is just horrible I swear every time I read something like this i get a braxton hick, I see how this is really affecting me personally. I can't believe they still did it no matter how much she agreed with you in the first place. You know the Jew do it in the 7th day after birth, I wouldn't be so affected if there is religion playing a roll in this case but I guess it is not?


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#23 of 30 Old 05-08-2008, 04:21 PM
 
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To the poster who criticized my post, I ask why was she even having sex?? I have yet to come across a 14 year old who is either emotionally ready to have sex or emotionally/financially ready to have a baby. I am sorry, but this entire scenario is very disturbing. There is clearly something wrong if someone that young is having kids; and I am very surprised that nobody else in this thread has jumped on this topic. I don't usually make judgements, but I should not even have to defend my stance here. It's common sense, even more common than not circing your kid.

you don't have to defend your stance, if you don't want to. But I sure as heck wouldn't expect people to just blindly agree with me either. It's pretty clear you haven't read many of the numerous threads discussing the issues you bring up. Many many of us here had sex at 14 consensually and without regret and were emotionally ready for it. And not everyone at MDC feels that teenage parenthood is shameful.
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#24 of 30 Old 05-08-2008, 04:26 PM
 
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totally agree...



omg this is just horrible I swear every time I read something like this i get a braxton hick, I see how this is really affecting me personally. I can't believe they still did it no matter how much she agreed with you in the first place. You know the Jew do it in the 7th day after birth, I wouldn't be so affected if there is religion playing a roll in this case but I guess it is not?

The Jewish custom is 8 days not 7 and it's delayed if there is medical reason. Regardless I'd be highly surprised to hear of a traditional Bris being performed in a Dr office. So no this was not a religious circ.
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#25 of 30 Old 05-08-2008, 04:40 PM
 
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After I delivered the next day or so the ob associated with our midwife came in to ask if we were circing and I said no. He said "good for you!" and left. I thought that was pretty cool.

goorganic.jpgwife to footinmouth.gif, currently WOH and geek.gif on my doctorate. (I'm dissertating!) We: novaxnocirc.giftoddler.gifgd.giffamilybed1.gif  with DS (4/09)!
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#26 of 30 Old 05-08-2008, 05:35 PM
 
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After I delivered the next day or so the ob associated with our midwife came in to ask if we were circing and I said no. He said "good for you!" and left. I thought that was pretty cool.
It bothers the He!! out of me that they even ask...you should have to request it...beg for it show good reason for it (like any good reason actually exists)

I thought it was considered unethical to solicit cosmetic surgery...this doctor shouldn't have been congratulating you for not mutilating your baby...he never should have asked in the first place.

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#27 of 30 Old 05-08-2008, 07:17 PM
 
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i'm sorry mama. btdt too. take a little break if you need to,m but then after that, please try to jump back in and keep educating those around you. someone, somewhere WILL listen.

l, <>< wife to my sweetie, proud mama to 3 cubs, 2 who clw & 1 that i i ep for . baby was evicted early by induction due to severe pre-e/hellp syndrome
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#28 of 30 Old 05-09-2008, 01:08 AM
 
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It bothers the He!! out of me that they even ask...you should have to request it...beg for it show good reason for it (like any good reason actually exists)

I thought it was considered unethical to solicit cosmetic surgery...this doctor shouldn't have been congratulating you for not mutilating your baby...he never should have asked in the first place.
I agree!
It irritates me too.:
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#29 of 30 Old 05-09-2008, 01:10 AM
 
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After I delivered the next day or so the ob associated with our midwife came in to ask if we were circing and I said no. He said "good for you!" and left. I thought that was pretty cool.
He is probably upset that he lost a sale.
Why else would he be asking?

I'm glad you're were smart enough not to fall for this scam! Your baby boy is very lucky.
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#30 of 30 Old 05-09-2008, 04:13 PM
 
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Neither Mom or Dad are Jewish; like I stated they said they waited till they had the $$ to get him mutilated in a Dr's office. I am still sick about this happening..
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