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#1 of 103 Old 05-16-2008, 10:22 PM - Thread Starter
 
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My sister called me tonight to find out what I was doing (cleaning out the kids' dressers of all the stuff they've outgrown). When she heard I had a garbage bag out of my DS's room, she said "oh, can I have it for ____, they could really use them and don't have a lot of money." These are a couple who had a baby boy on May 7, and managed to find a way to pay to have him mutilated this week.

It's been on my mind all week, that poor baby boy with that awful, fresh wound. Without even thinking, I told my sister "no, they can't have any of DS's stuff. If they can afford to have cosmetic surgery performed on their son's penis, they don't need hand-me-downs from me."

My sister told me I was being petty and that it was not my place to "judge" them for deciding to circ. I think it's my right to do what I want with my LOs outgrown clothes, and I'd rather donate them to charity than give them to a couple that I took the time to show a ton of literature to, and who still opted to do this to their son.

Fortunately, they are only the third couple I know who've circ'ed. Meaning the intact boys are WELL in the majority around here.
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#2 of 103 Old 05-16-2008, 10:27 PM
 
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I'd have probably had the same reaction that your sister did, but at the same time, it's your choice to do what you like with your stuff.
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#3 of 103 Old 05-16-2008, 10:29 PM
 
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You have every right to give or not give away your clothing, but your reasoning is petty. If they were asking for money to get the procedure done, that would be a completely appropriate response, but the circ and the clothing are too unrelated to try to connect them, IMO.

I'm sure others will disagree.
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#4 of 103 Old 05-16-2008, 10:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I think I reacted the way I did because I keep hearing how the mom can only take 1 month off work because they can't afford to make ends meet on maternity benefits (55% of wage), how they are barely scraping by. Yet somehow, they come up with $300 to pay for a circ? In my mind, if they can come up with that kind of money...

I've just been frustrated because I provided so much information to them when I found out that they were planning to. Especially being here in Canada where the rate is so low, why did they do that to their son?? I was tempted to offer to put an equal amount of money into an education fund for their DS if they would leave him intact.
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#5 of 103 Old 05-16-2008, 10:34 PM
 
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I don't think it's unrelated. If they chose to spend money on an unnesissary and harmful surgery rather than on kids clothes or whatever, that's not the op's fault. I feel strongly about circ as do many here and I do judge. I'm not afraid to say that.

Let there be beauty and strength, power and compassion, honor and humility, mirth and reverence within you.)0(
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#6 of 103 Old 05-16-2008, 10:36 PM
 
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It is your choice, but your reasoning is illogical.
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#7 of 103 Old 05-16-2008, 10:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Rhiannon Feimorgan View Post
I don't think it's unrelated. If they chose to spend money on an unnesissary and harmful surgery rather than on kids clothes or whatever, that's not the op's fault. I feel strongly about circ as do many here and I do judge. I'm not afraid to say that.
:
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#8 of 103 Old 05-16-2008, 10:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Rhiannon Feimorgan
I don't think it's unrelated. If they chose to spend money on an unnesissary and harmful surgery rather than on kids clothes or whatever, that's not the op's fault. I feel strongly about circ as do many here and I do judge. I'm not afraid to say that.
Exactly! I think I would have reacted the same way. However I also would have reacted the same if they had just purchased a $300 TV or camera or something equally unnecessary, but claim not to be able to make ends meet.

~Danelle~ Mama to four wonderful, intact kiddos ~~ Cami (10), Jimmy (5), Ella & Alex (2/09), and Newbie due 8/11 
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#9 of 103 Old 05-16-2008, 10:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ~Em~ View Post
You have every right to give or not give away your clothing, but your reasoning is petty.
Really?

How so?

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Originally Posted by jjawm View Post
It is your choice, but your reasoning is illogical.
Really?

How so?
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#10 of 103 Old 05-16-2008, 10:54 PM
 
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I don't think it's petty or illogical at all.

I would flat out refuse to donate clothing or any other baby items to parents who circed their child.
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#11 of 103 Old 05-16-2008, 10:57 PM
 
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I totally understand your anger and frustration and feel you are totally justified in that regard, however; if it were me I would still give the clothes to their child. I would think of it as a gift to him, not to his parents. My SIL and BIL use To Train Up a Child on my sweet nephews (they circ'd them too, and while both upset me, the former is what breaks my heart the most) but I still send them presents. I don't think I could bring myself to support the parents or give them anything more than a holiday card, but I am happy to send gifts to my nephews, I don't want to punish them for their parents cruelty and stupidity.
If I were in your position though, where the child involved is an infant I suppose my actions might depend on whether or not he actually did need clothes (like if he had very few things to wear), even if the reason for his need was his parents preference to spend money on genital mutilation. I guess since it's not his fault, I would give them to him if he needed them. However, I don't know the situation, and you can do what you want with your kid's stuff. If you don't feel right about it you don't feel right about it.
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#12 of 103 Old 05-16-2008, 11:01 PM
 
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Are you trying to punish the parents and the child? What good is your reaction doing? Petty is a good word for it.
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#13 of 103 Old 05-16-2008, 11:08 PM
 
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Exactly! I think I would have reacted the same way. However I also would have reacted the same if they had just purchased a $300 TV or camera or something equally unnecessary, but claim not to be able to make ends meet.
Yes, to all of this! But as someone who really has been broke before, folks spending money on "extras" while claiming to be "broke" is one of my pet peeves They can do whatever they want with their money and that's fine with me, but I'm not going to believe that they're truly broke if they're eating out, buying new TVs, or getting tattoos/cosmetic surgery while claiming to be broke.

Then again, people give me hand-me-downs and I'm not broke (nor do I claim to be) So I don't know.

love and peace.

mama to two girls and due in November!
: Circumcision can never be undone :
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#14 of 103 Old 05-16-2008, 11:13 PM
 
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I can see where you're coming from but why punish the baby? It's not his fault he was circed, and he will be the one wearing the clothes.

If you give the clothes to charity how can you know who will receive them and whether or not they've circed?
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#15 of 103 Old 05-16-2008, 11:19 PM
 
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I don't see how it's "punishing" the baby to not give the baby free clothes that belong to her. Unless the baby is going to be butt ass naked if the OP doesn't hand over all of her clothes, that's just a ridiculous accusation. It's not like they share a rare blood type and he needs a transfusion from her

I don't think you're being petty or illogical. It was selfish of them to put a cosmetic procedure ahead of their child having CLOTHES. You're not obligated to give them anything.

Sell the clothes and donate the money to an anti-circ group
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#16 of 103 Old 05-16-2008, 11:22 PM
 
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I don't see how it's "punishing" the baby to not give the baby free clothes that belong to her. Unless the baby is going to be butt ass naked if the OP doesn't hand over all of her clothes, that's just a ridiculous accusation. It's not like they share a rare blood type and he needs a transfusion from her

I don't think you're being petty or illogical. It was selfish of them to put a cosmetic procedure ahead of their child having CLOTHES. You're not obligated to give them anything.

Sell the clothes and donate the money to an anti-circ group
:
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#17 of 103 Old 05-16-2008, 11:23 PM
 
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I think it's petty for you to tell her that but I think it's justified, kwim?
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#18 of 103 Old 05-16-2008, 11:34 PM
 
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I don't see how it's "punishing" the baby to not give the baby free clothes that belong to her. Unless the baby is going to be butt ass naked if the OP doesn't hand over all of her clothes, that's just a ridiculous accusation. It's not like they share a rare blood type and he needs a transfusion from her
Did the OP or did the OP not ask for opinions? I read "Was I being petty?" as a question to be answered. Maybe my reading comprehension is off.

I didn't say anything about other commenters, just voiced my opinion, which was asked for. Any time you ask for opinions you should be prepared for ones that differ from yours, and I don't think I should be considered "ridiculous" because I disagree with your feeling on this.

The OP is in no way obligated to follow my opinion or yours -- she's going to feel the way she feels, and that's fine.
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#19 of 103 Old 05-16-2008, 11:38 PM
 
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If they can't afford to take care of their babys basic needs (ie: clothes) but they can afford to circ him then why do they deserve any handouts? They could come up with $300 in circ money but not clothes money????

Rikki ~~ Married Aug 04 ~~ DD Feb 06 ~~ DS Oct 07 ~~ DD April 12

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#20 of 103 Old 05-16-2008, 11:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by CherryBomb View Post
I don't see how it's "punishing" the baby to not give the baby free clothes that belong to her. Unless the baby is going to be butt ass naked if the OP doesn't hand over all of her clothes, that's just a ridiculous accusation. It's not like they share a rare blood type and he needs a transfusion from her

I don't think you're being petty or illogical. It was selfish of them to put a cosmetic procedure ahead of their child having CLOTHES. You're not obligated to give them anything.

Sell the clothes and donate the money to an anti-circ group
: : : :
I soooo agree with you here. If they could "really use them" "don't have a lot of money" why the h#ll did they spend $300 on a CIRC of all things! Something that the baby didn't need (unlike clothes) and definately did not want(unlike clothes)? They could have outfitted him for a couple of YEARS with $300 spent on second hand clothes.

I don't think you were being petty OP, I think his parents were being petty and selfish wasting all of that money on making him "look like Daddy" instead of spending it on things he could really use.

Noone who would flush all that money away on something so selfish deserves "freebies" IMO.

Good for you for saying no.
Take care,
Tara

Tara Momma to Callum and Gavin
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#21 of 103 Old 05-16-2008, 11:59 PM
 
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It would have been kind of you to give them the clothing. You withheld it and instead are giving it to a nameless charity where most / many of the beneficiaries circ'ed anyway. So I'd say it was petty.

In an ideal world, charitable acts should not be contingent upon your approval of the receivers' actions. In other words, you shouldn't just be generous with those who you give the stamp of approval. Then it's not charity, it's a reward.

But it's your stuff, you have no obligation to give it to them, and I wouldn't worry about it too much. The mom is working, they have income, obviously the little boy will get clothing. Not a big deal, really.
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#22 of 103 Old 05-17-2008, 12:45 AM
 
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Nope, your reasoning was principled, not petty. You were solicited for the items and had every right to decline for whatever reason.....and I would say that's an excellent one. They made the sacrifices necessary to have their child's genitals mutilated, so I'm sure they'll find a way to clothe him.
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#23 of 103 Old 05-17-2008, 01:02 AM
 
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When I think about it, is it any different from no longer supporting charities that might try to start mutilating children in Africa with donations? There are charities I don't think I would be giving money too because they intend to direct the money to circumcision. Is that being petty?

I understand how people feel this is directed at the child but I am not sure I can call it petty. I might consider the parents of the child selfish since they wasted what little money they had on something the child didn't need. Something that perhaps the father wanted done to the child so that he looked like him.

I can see this from both perspectives but at the end of the day I think I would come down on the side of the OP.
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#24 of 103 Old 05-17-2008, 01:17 AM
 
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How is it any different than refusing to give stuff to someone who goes out and spends $300 on any other frivolous expense? Would your sister think you were being petty if the $300 had gone towards veneers for the dad's teeth?

And why did she tell you about the circ anyway? If she wants to get you upset, she shouldn't do it right before asking you for favors.
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#25 of 103 Old 05-17-2008, 01:21 AM
 
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if the clothes are the OP's to give (not her son's), then they are the parents' to receive (not the circed boy). babies could care less what they wear, provided that they are warm enough and somewhat clean. (my 2 year old has a closet full of cute outfits but won't let me take off her PJs, so wears those most days.)

i thought of another approach you could take if you have the guts. instead of giving the clothes to your sister to give to them, you could personally go over there with a few basic items, and talk with them (gently) about how is your son doing, i heard you decided to circ (after you [personally?] handed them a bunch of anti-circ literature). what made you decide to do that? how are you able to afford it? wow, i'm surprised you decided to do that, how much did it cost anyway? wow, you could have bought a whole lot of clothes for that amount of money! feel them out and see if there are any regrets, and without appearing judgmental toward their decision, maybe you can plant another seed with the hope that if there ever is a second baby boy, they can make a better choice.

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#26 of 103 Old 05-17-2008, 01:34 AM
 
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Originally Posted by kapatasana View Post
I totally understand your anger and frustration and feel you are totally justified in that regard, however; if it were me I would still give the clothes to their child.
I agree with this. While I do agree with you that it seems strange that the parents of this boy shelled out the $ to circ him yet are struggling to afford clothes for him, at the same time, it's not the poor kid's fault his parents made that decision. While I would not support the couple's decision (and although I don't necessarily feel good about this, I do judge...) I would still give the clothes to them because they would be a help to the child.

ETA - I do not think you are being petty in what you said about the circ, though. I see where you are coming from in thinking that if they can afford the circ, then surely they can afford to buy clothing too (or should have bought the clothes instead of the circ if their funds were limited). But again, I would still see giving the clothes as helping the baby, not the parents.
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#27 of 103 Old 05-17-2008, 06:25 AM
 
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I don't see how it's "punishing" the baby to not give the baby free clothes that belong to her. Unless the baby is going to be butt ass naked if the OP doesn't hand over all of her clothes, that's just a ridiculous accusation. It's not like they share a rare blood type and he needs a transfusion from her

I don't think you're being petty or illogical. It was selfish of them to put a cosmetic procedure ahead of their child having CLOTHES. You're not obligated to give them anything.

Sell the clothes and donate the money to an anti-circ group
:

It's not petty to not want to have anything to do with someone who claims not to have any money and yet pays $$$ to have an unnecessary and damaging surgery done on their child.

Part of the reason that this abomination continues is because others keep quiet and there are no consequences for doing it. If these penis-fashionistas thought that their actions were going to be frowned on and that they would be thought of as pariahs in their community they wouldn't do it.

You did good, don't let any circumcision apologists get you down.
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#28 of 103 Old 05-17-2008, 09:17 AM
 
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It would have been kind of you to give them the clothing. You withheld it and instead are giving it to a nameless charity where most / many of the beneficiaries circ'ed anyway. So I'd say it was petty.
Uh, she's in Canada. So no, most of the babies probably won't be circ'd.
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#29 of 103 Old 05-17-2008, 09:45 AM
 
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I don't think it's unrelated. If they chose to spend money on an unnesissary and harmful surgery rather than on kids clothes or whatever, that's not the op's fault. I feel strongly about circ as do many here and I do judge. I'm not afraid to say that.
I agree.
It may seem illogical "after the fact", but the emotions are still there.

milk donation : mother to Ryan (6), AJ (5), Nate (2), Maia (1) all born at home, I have a kid-friendly food & bento blog, : :
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#30 of 103 Old 05-17-2008, 10:39 AM
 
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I agree with selling the clothes and donating the money to an anti-circ group.

And if they ask if you have any baby clothes they can borrow, I would tell them exactly what you did with them. Not in a judgemental way...just in a matter-of-factly way.

If they are that broke and need clothes they can shop for second-hand stuff. Seriously, at yard sales, you can outfit a newborn for like $10.

The baby is not going to suffer because you did not provide him a wardrobe.
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